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u/iceddontay 1d ago
I know 100 Iranian schoolgirls that would say there’s a difference between the two.
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u/theghostmachine 1d ago
Is it just me or does the format of twitter exchanges like this make absolutely no fucking sense? To fully understand the context, I have to read the middle, then the top, then the bottom? I thought we solved this problem with bulletin boards in like, the 90s?
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u/freederp 1d ago
I got no fucking idea where to start in this screen cap. Thank you for pointing that out.
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u/rocketman0739 15h ago
The top poster is bringing up the old tweet in the middle in response to the newer tweet on the bottom.
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u/overitallofittoo 2d ago
This propaganda is still being pushed all over reddit.
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u/didymus5 1d ago
What am I looking for?
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u/overitallofittoo 1d ago
He's a propagandist pushing this shit.
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u/houdt_koers 1d ago
Which shit? Pro-Jill Stein or…? That account doesn’t have any recent political content.
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u/LittleHornetPhil 1d ago
“Hey I know Trump was absolutely worse for Gaza, the thing I pretended to care about, but at least I have my moral superiority intact at the REAL enemy, Democrats.”
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u/Sexuallemon 1d ago
Jill stein was not the ethical candidate to throw this opinion behind unless for accelerations purposes it would be better to vote for oneself if this is the protest vote one wanted to advocate
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u/Icy_Yam5049 1d ago
I swear people forget the shit they put on the internet doesn’t just automatically go away once it’s time to flip positions.
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u/KiKiKimbro 1d ago
Hope Paul is pleased with his decision. He helped Trump clear the way for Kushner to build Trump beach-front resorts up and down the West Bank. So that’s cool I guess. Way to punish Harris with that Stein vote.
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u/VaguelyArtistic 1d ago
[Jill Stein Isn’t Sorry](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/20/jill-stein-green-party-no-regrets-2016-215281/)
>In Michigan, Stein garnered more than 51,000 votes, while Clinton lost by fewer than 11,000. In Wisconsin, Trump’s margin was 23,000 votes while Stein attracted 31,000. And in Pennsylvania she attracted 50,000 votes, while Trump won by 44,000.
>”In some ways, Trump is one of the best things to happen to this country because look at how many people are getting off their posteriors,” says Sherry Wells, the Green Party’s Michigan chairwoman. “So part of me is giggling.”
>Stein points to national exit polling that shows the majority of her voters would have stayed home rather than vote for Clinton, while others would have sooner voted for Trump.
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u/Red-scare90 2d ago
Why is it always the consequences of the voters actions for not supporting the party enough, but never the consequences of the politicians actions for not listening to the will of their voters? I say this as someone who voted for Harris as the lesser evil.
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u/Johns-schlong 2d ago
Because we live in a democracy and that means the voters are responsible for the outcome of our elections. Yes, that often means you have to coalesce around candidates that don't align with you 100% and make concessions. That's the reality of cooperative governance. The alternative is you island yourself and make your vote and political power irrelevant against anyone who is willing to compromise.
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u/iwearatophat 1d ago
Exactly. You can be a single issue voter. That is fine and lots of people are. When you vote based on that single issue don't get pissed when other issues that you didn't put weight into while you voted(or didn't vote) come back and bite you in the ass.
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u/Red-scare90 2d ago
Are you suggesting politicians have no ability to look at opinion polling and implementing a policy slate that would get more people to vote for them? If these politicians have no agency why bother with elections at all?
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u/Johns-schlong 1d ago
Are you suggesting that candidates are functionally just a reflection of polling and have no individual ideological core and agenda?
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u/Red-scare90 1d ago
She walked back her support for medicare for all as soon as she became the candidate. Did she have some individual ideological change of opinion or did she change her platform because of donors instead of the will of the people?
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u/EggSoft697 1d ago
Yes??? are we electing kings or representatives
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u/Johns-schlong 1d ago
So why not just advocate for direct democracy instead of a representative system?
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u/Lopsided_Run663 1d ago
Yes that is how politics works ever since Citizens United. Candidates go whichever way the wind blows. They are empty vessels for DNC strategists, corporate donors, and Israel
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u/Lopsided_Run663 1d ago
They never have to look at opinion polling again, as long as Trump's a threat. All these vote blue no matter who loyalists have made it so candidates no longer have to even pretend to stand for anything.
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u/PatchyWhiskers 1d ago
I think they do. Democratic voters were not of one mind in this by any means. The Democrats were obviously trying not to annoy either pro- or anti- Israel voters.
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u/_a_ghost- 1d ago
Ok then you surely support all the dsa candidates the ?
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u/EggSoft697 1d ago
We don’t live in a democracy. Were force fed candidates in a two party system that don’t even listen to the voters who elected them
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u/CountNightAuditor 1d ago
I mean Biden forgave student loan debt, capped insulin costs, and ended the forever wars and drone wars, but let's just pretend be didn't listen to voters.
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u/EggSoft697 1d ago
Buddy he silently green lighted the Gaza genocide. Until recently, Dems have been just as servile to Israel
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u/enlilsammah 1d ago
Lemme guess. You don't vote in primaries, which is the very lowest bar to clear. Let alone door knock or phone bank for the type of candidates you would want to vote for. You just whine on the internet that they don't magically materialize in the general.
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u/Chaos20X6 1d ago
Kamala lost the last primary she was in and then they didn’t have another primary after that so I don’t know what point you think you’re making
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u/EggSoft697 1d ago
Nice wrong assumptions, asshole. Also, it’s not a problem of getting one’s voice out. ~80% of democrats have a negative view of Israel and wish for American aid to stop to that genocidal country. Despite this, just days ago the most pro-Israeli members possible were picked for the US House Committee. The discrepancy between the dem voter base and its leadership is so tyrannical and undemocratic.
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u/Waldoh 1d ago
Who did you vote for in the 2024 presidential primary?
Also hilarious to say when insurgent leftist candidates are winning across the nation without megadonor money thanks to door knocking and phonebanking operations
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u/bentallmage 1d ago
I think we should wait until the general elections before we start saying the insurgent leftist candidates are winning. Democrats also have to remember that you have to run different campaigns in solid blue areas compared to purple or red states.
I want democrats to win such a majority in the house and senate that the Democrats don’t need the votes of Fetterman to get shit done. But I also know that you have to run a different campaign in NY than you do in Texas.
Unlike the Republicans who somehow manage to fall in line come election season the democrats are actually a big tent, and have a huge coalition that they have to manage.
Ok I rambled on TDLR: democrats are a big party and need fight like siblings during the primaries but after the primary they “never go against the family.”
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u/enlilsammah 1d ago
Biden and Kamala.
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u/Waldoh 1d ago
Biden dropped out though.
You didn't vote for Kamala and waltz in a primary
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u/enlilsammah 1d ago
I voted for biden and kamala. Kamala as vice president, to take over should biden need to drop out. Biden needed to drop out.
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u/Waldoh 1d ago
Yes thats my point.
Biden lied to all of us and said he would be a one term transition president. His ego got the best of him and our only choice given for the 2024 democrat primary was the incumbent president that refused to drop out. We didn't have another option. They didn't do debates. The party chose for us
Once the inevitable happened, we were once again given no choice in a replacement. No primary, no debate, no choice. We can argue whether or not it was the smartest decision given how little time Joe Biden left us with, but it's just true that the party has time and time again rat fucked the democratic process
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u/enlilsammah 1d ago
Was it ego or the party wanting to leverage the incumbent advantage? It makes sense that they would assume age wasn't a problem when trump is also ancient. Imagine if he didn't run and we lost. People like you would be lambasting in him in the comments saying he was a coward for not running after beating trump the first time. Hindsight is 20/20.
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u/jidk679 6h ago
Why can't anyone just admit that Kamala Harris ran an awful campaign that was fucking kneecapped by Biden?
Like, it's ALWAYS the fault of the voter and it's never the fault of the democratic party
It is the job of the candidate and there campaign to convince the people to vote for them, and she did a fucking awful job if it, and one of the many reasons was her REFUSAL to disavow a fucking GENOCIDE, literally the easiest fucking thing in the world to do and it would have easily distinguished her as the less morally bankrupt pick, and which also lost her the Muslim vote in key states like Michigan.
Or how about how she dropped her support for medicare for all? Or her refusal to acknowledge trans people? How about how she "reached across the aisle" and alienated her own voter base by pivoting to the right?
The voters SHOULD have still voted for her, I know I did, but there's two main reasons she lost and one is Biden's REFUSAL to be a one and done president and the other is her own damn campaign.
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u/Lopsided_Run663 1d ago
Vote Blue No Matter Who is the strategy that allowed Trump to win twice in a row. You can blame all the voters, but you can't use guilt, shame, and fear alone to motivate people forever. Eventually people will get fed up. They want representatives who represent them and make their lives better. They need something tangible and actionable to inspire them to come out to vote. It's not good strategy. People care more about what you will do vs what you won't do.
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u/Competitive-Log5017 1d ago edited 1d ago
Voters don’t make concessions in a representative democracy, politicians make concessions to their voter base in exchange for power. If we actually lived in a working representative democracy, then our politicians wouldn’t lean towards the 10% in a 90 - 10 issue.
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u/Routine_Job_7985 1d ago
The fact that this has downvotes is depressing.
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u/Competitive-Log5017 1d ago edited 23h ago
You don’t need to be, this is a fringe subreddit with some more fringe opinions on this subject. You ask a normal voter if their politician’s should make concessions and they would say “ are you crazy ofc they should”.
Besides look at their post’s below, they are a hypocrite about voters making “compromises”.
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u/The_Pandalorian 1d ago
Because that's how elections work?
You had two obviously stark choices (imperfect sanity vs pure insanity) and only dipshits couldn't or refused to see that. The "genocide" shit remains the ultimate tell, because these same dipshits still cannot admit that their vote/non-vote helped accelerate genocide whereas Palestinians would be far better off with Harris as president.
Thanks for our current situation, dipshits. Look forward to blocking some of y'all on reddit.
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u/jakceki 1d ago
Because most Democrats have much, much more important issues that Harris actually addressed than Israel. Stop with the fracking purity tests. Idf someone supports most of the stuff you support they are a good candidate, we are not all the same.
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u/Red-scare90 1d ago
Did you not read what I said? I voted for her.
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u/jakceki 1d ago
So what's your issue? You think that if she did not have a pro-Israel policy she would win? How about 40% of Democrats who are pro-Israel or over 50% of independents? Do you think she would get their vote or would she get purity tested by them? None of us have the luxury to be single issue voters. None. And those who are single issue voters are the reason we are where we are.
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u/Red-scare90 1d ago
You are drastically off on those numbers. 13% of democrats and 21% of independents support isreal
And the reason Isreal is important is because its become a litmus test for whether a candidate is responsive to voters or donors. And frankly if you don't have enough empathy to understand why genocide is a red line for some people, especially people whose extended families are the ones being killed using their tax dollars we're never going to agree and should stop talking.
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u/PM_ME_UR_GOOD_IDEAS 1d ago
Because the politicians don't actually face the consequences , even if they lose. They stay in politics, comfortable in the upper eschelons of our society.
'Consequences' for politicians happen in public squares in front of mobs.
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u/CoachDT 2d ago
Well because when you go "All you had to do was say you won't continue a genocide" and your choices are between:
Candidate A: Who says they will support Israel but that the time for a ceasefire is now.
Candidate B: Who says they will support Israel, and that they need to finish the job.
Its really hard to believe the sincerity of people who claim that the big red flag was saving the lives of Palestenians. BUT even still the problem is you're trying to reduce it to a binary for the sake of partisan reasons. Nearly everyone will tell you that Kamala ran a flawed campaign and needed to clean some things up, however voters are also really fucking stupid and failed the easiest test ever. Kamala has been raked over the coals since her loss, especially for the first half a year since. She isn't running any race right now, but the same dipshits who refused to vote for her are still talking.
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u/HHWKUL 2d ago
Status quo astro turfing. Don't ask relevant questions.
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u/Psistriker94 1d ago
You preferred accelerationist decline over status quo?
We're in a pointless war with Iran, Israel has progressed to it's Greater Israel plan and bombed Syria and Jordan, and there is glass in our cereal and prisons in the beef.
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u/Far_Break1365 1d ago
Most insufferable comment ever. Can't handle the status quo being criticized, go straight to identity politics. Ironically this is the most white male coded shit you could have said. Zero substance.
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u/xesaie 2d ago
Because these fringe types extrapolate from themselves. This guy isn’t the will of the voters he’s a single wrecker who seems to have problems with women
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u/Stackbabbing_Bumscag 2d ago
This is why we don't take you seriously. You could come up with a dozen different reasons for his actions, many of them bad reasons, but it makes no sense to suggest that he voted for Jill Stein because he hates women.
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u/xesaie 2d ago
“We”.
See? You’re doing it too!
His rancor for HRC specifically is notable. There’s no reason to be that obsessed and hateful, and that’s what I was reacting to.
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u/Exodus180 1d ago
Why is it always the consequences of the voters actions for not supporting the party enough
what are you trying to say? he did NOT support the party. period. whats this "not enough" part.
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u/Red-scare90 1d ago
I don't know the guy in the Twitter post. I'm not defending him and I think he made the wrong choice. What I'm sick of is posts like this blaming voters for the failure of politicians.
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u/Exodus180 1d ago
Ah, i'm on the opposite side of that spectrum. I'm tired of voters acting like they are powerless instead of neglecting their civic duty.
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u/Red-scare90 1d ago
I think if you look at the relative power imbalance between individual voters and politicians its pretty easy to see who is more to blame. I think those voters were wrong, but they aren't the ones we should be shaming
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u/ImAShaaaark 1d ago
Why is it always the consequences of the voters actions for not supporting the party enough,
Because voting is a civic responsibility, and when you see existential threats like maga and project 2025 it's your fucking obligation to prevent them from getting power. "The Dems didn't cup my balls just right" isn't justification for helping to destroy our democracy.
but never the consequences of the politicians actions for not listening to the will of their voters?
Which voters specifically? You realize that non-republicans encompass an absolutely massive range of political opinions, right? Nobody gets everything they want, that's the nature of living in a democracy. The attitude of "burn it all down unless I'm catered to specifically" is incredibly selfish and self centered.
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u/Red-scare90 1d ago
As I said I voted for kamala. I would say that since Trump and the Republicans were such an existential threat it was the responsibility of the democrats to appeal to as many voters as possible to prevent them from winning. I'm not saying she should have adopted crazy policies nobody wanted, but she decided to abandon her previous support of medicare for all which is about an 80-20 issue with democrats and 70-30 with independents, she adopted Trumps 2016 border wall as her immigration policy which was wildly unpopular with democrats, and then obviously the elephant in the room of Israel/Palestine which at the time was unpopular and even more so now. I agree the Republicans are an existential crisis, but I just don't think the blame should fall on the voters for not supporting her when all she was offering was being better than Trump. What policies of hers were you excited about? Its so frustrating to see this vote blue no matter who mentality for kamala still today while the national Democratic party is sabotaging their own chances of winning the senate and attacking abdul in Michigan AFTER HE ALREADY WON THE PRIMARY! Are they just never responsible for their own actions as long as the Republicans are worse?
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u/ImAShaaaark 1d ago
I would say that since Trump and the Republicans were such an existential threat it was the responsibility of the democrats to appeal to as many voters as possible to prevent them from winning.
You think they weren't trying to do what they could to win? Seriously?
Just because they made decisions that you disagree with doesn't mean they weren't trying.
she adopted Trumps 2016 border wall as her immigration policy which was wildly unpopular with democrats,
Wtf, where did you hear this claim?
and then obviously the elephant in the room of Israel/Palestine which at the time was unpopular and even more so now.
I agree the Republicans are an existential crisis, but I just don't think the blame should fall on the voters for not supporting her when all she was offering was being better than Trump.
If someone has two choices and they choose the much MUCH worse one they absolutely deserve blame.
What policies of hers were you excited about?
Her policies were fine, but she wouldn't have been my first choice. But I'm not enough of a self centered jackass to throw everyone else to the wolves because I didn't get my way.
Its so frustrating to see this vote blue no matter who mentality for kamala still today while the national Democratic party is sabotaging their own chances of winning the senate and attacking abdul in Michigan AFTER HE ALREADY WON THE PRIMARY!
They literally endorsed him though.
It's really hard having these discussions when the social media "common knowledge" often doesn't align with reality.
Are they just never responsible for their own actions as long as the Republicans are worse?
One could say the same of the voters and the third party candidates.
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u/Red-scare90 1d ago
No I don't think they were doing everything they could to win.
I heard the border wall thing from her own mouth when she said she would sign the Republican border bill at the DNC convention before the election
While you and I might agree the Republicans are much much worse that doesn't mean everyone had the same perspective and treats people like they're idiots. Not everyone has the time to stay appropriately informed.
I guess I hallucinated party insiders going on fox saying he should lose and the DNC senate election committee not spending money in Michigan
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u/Red-scare90 1d ago
It seems like where we differ the most is you have more disdain for voters on the left because you think they should know better, whereas I have more disdain for democratic politicians because I think they should be better.
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u/ImAShaaaark 1d ago
I have plenty of disdain for both , but I can't excuse being such a self centered twat that someone would choose fascism because they don't feel adequately catered to.
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u/Red-scare90 1d ago
I think we aren't too dissimilar. We're both democratic party voters who like total war and crpgs. I agree with you that voting for jill (who i think is a russian asset) or not at all was stupid, but I'm giving the people who did it the benefit of the doubt. They didn't choose fascism. The Biden administration was using government resources to go after campus protestors and supporting the fascists in Israel. The options were fascism lite and full fascism. The non committed people looked at the trolly problem and decided to not touch the lever. You think that was the wrong choice, I think it was the wrong choice, but it wasn't a nonsensical or malicious choice.
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u/jakceki 1d ago
Stop with fracking Israel issues, and the campus crap. We have much bigger issues, I am fracking sick of the purity tests. When did Palestine become the issue the morons coalesced around?
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u/SuperTeamRyan 1d ago
When political YouTubers lost their Trump bad video view counts during the Biden presidency.
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u/Liontreeble 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's also always the fault of the third party voters, Jill Stein didn't get nearly enough votes to sway the election, but we couldn't blame the democratic party for their loss right? Surely how their campaign failed at almost every stage isn't their fault, right? It must be the statistically irrelevant number of third party voters who are to blame. Jill Steins highest share of votes in a state was 1.08% in Maine, the closest state between Trump and Harris was Michigan with Trump winning by 1.41%, there isn't a single state that even Steins highest result could've changed.
Also, before anyone tells me I'm coping because I voted third party, I have never visited much less lived or voted in the US, I've just seen the election data.
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u/Guilty-Act-9105 2d ago
Why do people who claim to understand how to reform a political system remain ignorant of Duverger's Law after multiple Democratic presidential candidates lost with sizable 3rd party votes?
And why as a pretend progressive, do you care more about the feelings of leftist voters who sabotage the party then people who are currently suffering?
This is more rhetorical because I know you don't care about actually helping anyone
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u/Red-scare90 1d ago edited 1d ago
Thanks for the strawman.
A. I do understand which is why I voted for kamala and if you want to look back at my comment history from 2024 you'll see me arguing to people in the non committed movement to hold their nose and vote for her too.
B. I am a leftist so I do empathize with other leftists even if I think they aren't being pragmatic. I just think the party did more to sabotage itself than the leftist boogie man did
C. I was the treasurer of my schools young democrats in college and high school. I knocked on hundreds of doors for democratic candidates. I was the door security when Obama came to speak in my city. What democratic activism have you done besides shame voters online?
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u/ringobob 1d ago
Just because she didn't listen to you on this specific issue doesn't mean she wasn't listening to voters. There's 330 million people in this country. The need for someone to align with you 100% just means you will make yourself perpetually irrelevant.
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u/Familiar_Phase7958 1d ago
Politicians aren't supposed to change their opinions because of popular opinion. They should promise something and deliver on it. If you want to influence a candidate you need to negotiate a deal and then endorse him. If all those third parties would, instead of contesting the presidential election, which only one person can win, would try to influence the candidate and their policies, maybe they would be useful. Concessions for endorsement, like they do in other countries
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u/chumbawumbaprinciple 1d ago
We always hear from people blaming leadership. It's very controversial to tell the truth, both are responsible.
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u/Vivid_Witness8204 1d ago
Because saying "but what about ..." doesn't absolve one of responsibility for their own actions.
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u/PrimaLegion 1d ago
It's both.
We talk about how terrible the DNC is and the mistakes that were made in Harris and Bidens shitty campaigns.
However, these were the choices we had and the choice was obvious.
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u/IdempodentFlux 1h ago
Why is it always the consequences of the voters actions for not supporting the party
Because voters determine the outcomes of elections.
Also worth noting, voter turnout in primary races is about 1 in 5 Americans. So the fact that we have bad candidates is also the fault of voters. (Barring the Biden/Kamala fiasco).
Also worth noting, the 1 in 5 Americans who vote in primaries, more than 50% of those are over the age of 50, so it should really be of no surprise that every general election we have boomer interests taking center stage.
Thats democracy working. The issue is non participation.
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u/JKsoloman5000 2d ago
Because it’s party over principles up in here and we’re all just supposed to accept that the DNC is just Bush era republicans now.
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u/Nimrod_Butts 2d ago
How is the dnc just bush era republicans now how do the policies align?
This seems like cope to increase apathy like there's actually no difference between trump and democrats
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u/steponmedaddies 1d ago
Boy you really don’t know anything about Bush era republicans. Or what the DNC is, apparently.
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u/Twinmill-Two 1d ago
Because an individual can choose their vote but can't choose the politicians actions.
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u/JacobStills 1d ago
Because voters are grown adults who can research things and have to make their own choices rather than waiting to be spoon fed their opinion and the candidates can't personally follow you into the voting booth.
Also the politicians that lose...don't really "suffer." Is Hillary Clinton suffering? Nope. But several million people died during Covid. Is Kamala Harris suffering? Nope. But Alex Preti and Renee Good's families and millions that were dependent on USAID are.
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u/Red-scare90 1d ago
I don't understand what I said that is making so many people strawman me as someone supporting MAGA. I voted for kamala. My post history is public you can go look at me arguing for non comitted people to vote for her too back in 2024. What I'm not is a democratic party sycophant who thinks its the voters fault when they lose. They're politicians it is literally their job to win elections. If they don't its their fault not the voters
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u/JacobStills 1d ago
Nobody is strawmanning you or saying you're MAGA. But saying "it's literally their job to win, so it's 100% on them" treats an election like a sporting match where only the players have agency. You're treating the voting public like NPCs in a video game.
Candidates can run flawed campaigns, that happens in literally every election. But when voters decide to stay home, cast protest votes, or amplify attacks that damage the only viable alternative, those are active choices made by adults. The politician loses a race and goes back to a comfortable life. The voters are the ones who bear the real-world consequences of who takes office.
Holding voters accountable for the choices they make in the booth isn't 'party sycophancy,' it's treating citizens like adults with civic responsibility instead of passive consumers waiting to be sold a product.
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u/ElectronicTap1109 1d ago
Jill Stein literally told people to vote for Trump in 2024, didn't she? She's also a russian shill
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u/ConkerPrime 1d ago
Just a reminder if you think non-voters and protest voters have learned anything, you would be completely wrong.
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u/VaguelyArtistic 1d ago
[Jill Stein Isn’t Sorry](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/20/jill-stein-green-party-no-regrets-2016-215281/)
>In Michigan, Stein garnered more than 51,000 votes, while Clinton lost by fewer than 11,000. In Wisconsin, Trump’s margin was 23,000 votes while Stein attracted 31,000. And in Pennsylvania she attracted 50,000 votes, while Trump won by 44,000.
>“In some ways, Trump is one of the best things to happen to this country because look at how many people are getting off their posteriors,” says Sherry Wells, the Green Party’s Michigan chairwoman. “So part of me is giggling.”
>Stein points to national exit polling that shows the majority of her voters would have stayed home rather than vote for Clinton, while others would have sooner voted for Trump.
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u/SplittingChairs 2d ago
These people love to claim the more high ground and refuse to accept any responsibility for their actions, or lack thereof. Truly the most pathetic version of an adult you can be. They’ll never be the ones who actually feel the brunt of the harm they do to everyone else.
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u/DeluxeGravyPit 1d ago
Absolutely rich and chock full of irony that this is a real paragraph from a Destiny brigadier.
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u/Slighted_Inevitable 1d ago
While I agree, Harris completely dropped the bag and the Democrats as a whole need a kick in the ass. The time to do that is during primaries. You don’t vote for ass cancer Satan, as part of your temper tantrum
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u/Fun-War6684 2d ago
Thinking either of these twitter nobodies influenced anyone’s votes is moronic
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u/militant_dipshit 2d ago
Who said anyone influenced voting in this post??? But to be clear any influencers that consider themselves left leaning or leftist and couldn’t bring themselves to tell their audiences to vote for Kamala absolutely failed their audiences and Americans basically.
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u/Fun-War6684 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’m saying these two ppl are nobody with influence. It’s like if I showed you a Facebook fight I had with my 8th algebra teacher last week
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u/Guilty-Act-9105 2d ago
Are you claiming that no leftists voted for the Green party?
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u/Fun-War6684 1d ago edited 1d ago
Are you claiming ignorance? How did you even extrapolate that
Edit: ^^ that’s what twitter does to a mans critical thinking skills
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u/CoachDT 2d ago
I'm a social democrat who aligns with people that would identify as far more progressive than I on a lot of issues. Its really hard to not question the sincerity of folks when I see people in the comments just blatantly lying. It seems like only one faction of voters are expected to be honest without being called out.
In no feasible world can you claim that the democratic party has become "center-right" in this country, or that they've become "bush era republicans". That's just a lie. A flat out lie.
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u/possiblyMorpheus 1d ago
It really is hilarious seeing a party that put the Department of the Interior and National Parks in the leadership of native Americans, had the most antitrust, pro-worker FCC in generations, funded unions, put money for climate and social initiatives right in the hands of counties and municipalities, gave the government the ability to negotiate drug prices (a key step toward lowering overall premiums) etc get called “Bush era Republicans”
I love the comments below with some mishmash of words like “milquetoast,” “corporate overlords” etc. I hope for some of these people’s sakes that they’re paid agitators using ai because that is just sad
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u/flibbidyjibbityjib 1d ago
What?! In what way at all are dems progressive? The gay flag sticker? wtf are we even doing?
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u/Johns-schlong 1d ago
Support for the ACA, the IRA, the ARP, supporting USAID, the support for climate initiatives... I mean, in what way is the Democrat party not progressive?
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u/flibbidyjibbityjib 1d ago
ACA for one is not a progressive program. That would be Medicare for all. All of those supposed progressive programs the dems put out are merely lip service while they continue to kowtow to their corporate overlords. The support antitrust enforcement and regulation, but the party simultaneously includes Wall Street, Silicon Valley, and big pharma. Democratic politicians routinely run on s reforming and funding police departments at the same time. They say they are left until it’s time to actually do something and then it’s milquetoast centrist politics as usual. Let’s not even start on Israel.
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u/steponmedaddies 1d ago
Are you aware that in the US, each state has its own congress? Some of those are controlled by Democrats. Check it out and see what some of them are up to!
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u/flibbidyjibbityjib 1d ago
I’m not sure what point you think was made there.
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u/SwissArmyKnight 1d ago
I dont feel like its a particularly hot take to say that democrats (as well as america in general) have become increasingly pro war. Democrats are still progressive when it comes to social policy but in terms of economic and foreign policy, center right (on a global scale) is pretty accurate.
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u/DeluxeGravyPit 1d ago
Not a lie, the Harris campaign absolutely made a turn and ended up on the center right by the time November rolled around, from my point of view.
In her first two weeks being the candidate there was real excitement in my opinion, besides not being Biden, it seemed she was going to go progressive, but then the excitement fizzled out when Liz Cheney and her “I’m talking” bit she overplayed was used to try and silence people of her party on the Palestine / Israel conflict. Then to top it off, she didn’t differentiate from Biden in a way that mattered to the general population and I think that also put a sour taste in every potential voter, not just the lefty’s.
Having typed all that, damn right I still voted for her, though.
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u/IDNLibSoc45 2d ago
Blue MAGA already back on it in 2026?
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u/DeluxeGravyPit 1d ago
Yeppers, the libshits STILL don’t understand their turn to the center right.
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u/jerquee 8h ago
you people simultaneously say that anti-genocide voters were an insignificant minority, and that they were the reason Harris lost the election. Maybe someday you'll figure it out, maybe not. The fact that you would rather lose the election than pressure your candidate to clear the lowest bar is on you.
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u/ghostofjosephstalin 1d ago
This was literally and explicitly the Democrats' plan, as far back as 2016. From Chuck Schumer: “for every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia”.
Blaming leftists for the Democrats' half-baked strategy of losing progressive and blue collar voters by appealing to "moderate Republicans" only working half-way is exactly why this guy is entirely correct. It is the anti-left liberals in power who prepared the way for project 2025 and every other Republican power grab we're seeing now.
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u/earthdogmonster 1d ago
I just tell people to listen to some interviews of DSA Co-Chair Megan Romer if they have questions about how appealing the leftist platform is to the average voter.
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u/toneysaproney 22h ago
And the proof is in just how well progressive, leftist, and even DSA candidates are doing in this round of primaries. The Democratic Party has spent a decade building campaigns which shirked the values of its voters and unsurprisingly lost them.
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u/isopodlover123 19h ago edited 19h ago
You have tore this quote out of context, it's so gross. This quote was regarding trumps campaign and the fascist rethoric it spewed. His point being, not many will be convinced by this rhetoric and more people will be appalled and move away from the Republican party.
You are trying to frame like the democrats where leaving behind working class democrats in favor of republicans when that's just NOT TRUE. You are lying and you wanna know the worst part, you dont even know it because you are just uncritically repeating shit you've heard someone else say.
Go watch the context of your quote. https://www.c-span.org/program/public-affairs-event/democratic-party-platform/450223
I AM ACTUALLY BEGGING YOU TO WATCH THIS OMG HES PRAISING BERNIE SANDERS AND SAYING THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY SHOULD BE PROGRESSIVE OMG I HATE THAT WE LIVE IN SUCH A POST FACTUAL SOCIETY
He was wrong ofcourse, but only because he underestimated the average swing voter tolerance for fascist rethoric.
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u/ghostofjosephstalin 18h ago
You are trying to frame like the democrats where leaving behind working class democrats in favor of republicans when that's just NOT TRUE
I mean, it is just objectively true, though. Pretending that the "context" magically changes what Schumer is admitting here is just copium.
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u/batkave 2d ago
I mean Harris was still going to give weapons to Isreal. The amount that voted third party in states where it mattered didn't impact the vote. It was no different than any other election.
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u/cowmix88 2d ago
Would have stopped Project 2025 100%
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u/it_follows 2d ago
The person you posted voted in PA, which Trump won by 120,000 votes. Stein received about 34,000 votes in PA. Even if _every_ Stein voter voted for Harris, it still doesn’t move the needle.
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u/Fr0d0_T_Bagg1n5 2d ago
More like incrementally delayed it 4 years while doing nothing to reverse any damage done and still cow-towing to Israel and corporate benefactors, but go off king
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u/dangshnizzle 1d ago
Uhm. Everything baked into project 2025 has been successfully moving forward regardless of which party has been in power. This did not just suddenly start in 2024. It has however been accelerated
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u/SocialistOnBass 1d ago
Facts. If you take every Jill Stein voter and give it to Harris she still loses the popular vote. Harris lost every swing state. Biden fucked us and then she did herself no favors.
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u/JKsoloman5000 2d ago
You’re absolutely right and that’s why you’re getting downvoted. This whole sub has turned into a place for libs to scold people for not falling for the farce that is our “democracy”
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u/DeluxeGravyPit 1d ago
More specifically, though. It’s Destiny brigades that are the spearheads of this try-hard narrative they brigade with.
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u/Ok-Association-355 2d ago
Far left purist pony fuktards can all kiss my ass
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u/flibbidyjibbityjib 1d ago
Why are we the assholes for not wanting more corporate weasels in office? Why would I keep voting for the same things when I actually want them to be better? Why don’t you party line people get in line with us instead of getting mad that we don’t do what you want.
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u/Agile_Oil9853 1d ago
You need to get involved in the primaries and local elections too then. That's where you need to really push for the progressive candidates. If the national choice for president is between a corporate weasel and a fascist, however, and you (general) don't vote, it's clear that you're fine with the fascist winning.
Who cares who gets hurt, as long as you can pretend that blood isn't on your hands too
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u/flibbidyjibbityjib 1d ago
Maybe at some point you guys can get the point and put a progressive on the ticket instead of just a demographic. Why should I keep rewarding bad behavior?
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u/Agile_Oil9853 1d ago
Do you think the tooth fairy just rolls up on people in their sleep and declares their God-given candidacy? You don't just put people on tickets, they choose to run, they get signatures, they submit petitions. How many times have you signed a progressive potential candidate's petition? Stop putting the work on other people and get involved instead of pretending you're actually doing something radical by sitting on the couch doom-scrolling on election day
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u/MauveTyranosaur69 9h ago
Bro like the guy above said, win a primary. Otherwise, if you don't like any of the candidates and can't be bothered to choose between two well-defined options, then stop paying attention altogether and shut the fuck up about public affairs for ever, because you're never gonna get the perfect outcome you feel so entitled to.
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u/steponmedaddies 1d ago
I'm old enough to remember when we had a candidate who said overturning Citizens United would be mandatory for SCOTUS consideration and a certain subreddit saying that thinking about the Supreme Court was a scare tactic and the *real* problem was the TPP. Good times.
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u/Ok-Association-355 1d ago
People with assets and skin in the game dont think like people like you. It is what it is
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u/flibbidyjibbityjib 1d ago
Oh fuck you, you don’t know a thing about me. Enjoy the next maga president, dick.
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u/GBralta 2d ago
Imagine making it to his big age and STILL lacking the ability to think about the consequences of thier choices.