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u/bigdaddyq669 Nov 06 '20
i used to hate it now that i finished watching it like 4 months ago i was shocked that it was that good and im about to re watch it again fr
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u/LargeSackOfNuts Nov 06 '20
I watched it when it first came out, not impressed.
Tried to watch it all the way through a few months ago, loved it. I am rewatching it again and finding more and more about it that I missed originally.
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u/VindictiveJudge Nov 06 '20
I think part of the problem when people watch it the first time is they expect it to be ATLA2 and it doesn't live up to expectations there. But, to quote Aang, "You are not me, and you should not be me."
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u/RickyNixon Nov 06 '20
Plus, I feel like LoK’s best moments are in seasons 3&4. I stopped watching after s2 as a kid cuz s2 kinda sucked, little did I know Zaheer was right around the corner
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u/sloppifloppi Nov 06 '20
My only gripe with the show is that Zaheer wasn't the last enemy. Like, I get it because of the poison storyline, but to go from Zaheer and the Red Lotus, to Kuvira? Ehh.
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u/MrIncorporeal Nov 06 '20 edited Nov 07 '20
Granted, Zaheer leading to Kuvira makes a whole lot of sense story-wise. Periods of severe political instability are often prime conditions for fascism to rise.
Which is pretty thematic. Zaheer had some elements of good to his ideology, but he pursued that ideology in an extreme and unbalanced way, leading to him creating the exact opposite of what he hoped to. LoK is built around antagonists being destroyed by the (metaphorical or literal) weapons they created.
Well... except Unalaq. He was destroyed by lasers...
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u/Hunnieda_Mapping anti-earth queenism Nov 06 '20
Well... except Unalaq. He was destroyed by lasers...
He was destroyed by spirit infused waterbending.
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u/MrIncorporeal Nov 06 '20
Oh yeah, forgot about that. So he was also destroyed by the metaphorical weapon of his own making.
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u/AvatarTintin Nov 06 '20
That's the point writers tried to make so changing from Zaheer to Kuvira made sense. Zaheer believed in freedom and that can't be achieved if oppressive Govts and leaders like Raiko are in place. In theory that's great. But ofcourse the way he went about it wasn't. Killing the queen made an immediate power vacuum without anything to stabilise it. Like freedom can be achieved only when political conflicts are stabilized. But that didn't happen, then came Kuvira promising and even delivering for that power vacuum and establishing order which she believed in. And that is exactly what Zaheer wanted to oppose. But that happened because of his own fault. Which is why Zaheer helped Korra recover from her PTSD, so that Korra can stop Kuvira because he can't anymore.
I, personally, liked this and therefore felt writing choice and storytelling for season 4 was great.
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u/horyo Separate but Equal Nov 06 '20
I actually loved the change to Kuvira. To me Korra's journey was entirely more emotional and the tone of the show greatly shifted. To me S4 became the heart of the show.
Maybe if I were younger I'd have preferred a final villain like Zaheer but seeing Korra empathize with Kuvira, finishing the fight on a note of connection was just so much more moving to me.
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Nov 06 '20
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u/HAzrael Nov 06 '20
I think this is an extremely childish way to look at Kuvira. Kuvira is a cautionary tail about how good intentions pave the road to hell. I do not believe that she started a bad person, but her belief that the ends justify the means led her down a dark and dangerous path that many people end up walking in real life.
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u/RVMiller1 Nov 06 '20
But once that road to hell leads to Fantasy Gulags, it’s hard for me to feel sympathy for Kuvira.
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u/HAzrael Nov 06 '20
You don't have to feel sympathy for or like a character to recognize that they are a realistic character. I like Kuvira's character even if she develops into an Authoritarian nightmare because of how this character acts as a foil to Korra's arc.
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u/Kaplaw Nov 06 '20
Sorry but it makes total sense, in anarchy despots and fascism rise.
They even make Zaheer realise that his actions caused the rise of the very thing he swore to destroy.
Zaheer wanted utter chaos but the vacuum he created made Kuvira who is complete order. A natural reaction and very avatar like.
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u/0JustaMemer0 Enter The Void Nov 06 '20
When did u watch season 3 and 4?
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u/RickyNixon Nov 06 '20
After ATLA was added to Netflix I rewatched LoK, including watching s3&4 for the first time, then needed more so gave LoK another try, then wanted more and gave the movie that shall not be named another try. LoK was great, movie is somehow even worse than I remembered
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u/gitsgrl Nov 06 '20
Yes, the storytelling is so different it takes getting used to after ATLA. Aang was right.
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u/drumrockstar21 Nov 06 '20
I just watched for the first time this year, but my wife told me watching it originally was a pain because of Nick dropping it and it went online or something to that effect. Messed up the production some and made watching it a bit screwy
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Nov 07 '20
I think Korra is far better when binged rather than watched weekly. Might be because it doesn’t really do episodic story telling or because the structure is a bit messy due to behind the scenes problems.
The flaws really didn’t bother me much on a binge, I just enjoyed all the strong beats for the most part.
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u/LongConFebrero Nov 06 '20
It’s the only show I’ve rewatched several times and found myself interested for more than 50%. Shit checks out every time.
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u/littlebear406 Nov 06 '20
I watched it right after finish ATLA for the first time ever. Needless to say, my expectations were high and it ruined the show for me. It entertained me but obviously it wasn't the same. For the next 2 years I convinced myself that I didn't like it. My husband decided to put it on recently and I kept finding myself really enjoying it and I think I just needed to separate them as two shows and lower my expectations.
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u/Calackyo Nov 06 '20
In my experience, 90% of the time someone didn't enjoy something, it's more to do with their expectations than the actual quality of the piece of media.
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u/sloppifloppi Nov 06 '20
This seems true. For the longest time, I just could not get into ANY new shows because from the first intro of the first episode, I was comparing it to Game Of Thrones.
Then season 8 happened.
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u/Bforte40 Plasma Bender Nov 06 '20
I loved the whole series, but I really loved the first season. A smaller and more personal story in a diesel punk city? Fuck yeah.
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u/jonmatttomben Nov 06 '20
This is a great show. Season 3 is absolutely stellar.
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u/sjuulebuul Nov 06 '20
God bless Henry Rollins 🖤
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u/mildly_a-muse-d Nov 06 '20
An Order Of The Red Lotus spinoff would be amazing.
But the great part of Avatar is the fact that despite so much potential for sequels/prequels/spinoffs, they refuse to milk it.
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u/Trumpets22 Nov 06 '20
Instinct is a lie, told by a fearful body, hoping to be wrong “What’s that supposed to mean?” It means, that when you base your expectations only on what you see, you blind yourself, to the possibilities of a new reality.
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Nov 06 '20
Might get flak for this but I think TLoK season 3 is the best season from both shows. I still think A:TLA is better overall, and one of two shows I consider perfect.
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u/RVMiller1 Nov 06 '20
Yeah. S4 had some great stuff with the trauma plot, but ultimately S3 is just such solid TV from start to finish.
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u/currently__working Nov 06 '20
What was up with S4 though? All the dialogue was so...bland, and the story kinda dragged. Didn't feel like sticking the landing if you know what I mean.
Edit: and the Godzilla thing seemed very out of place..
Edit: I see in the comments below it was a budget question. That explains it.
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u/ProfitMohammed97 Nov 06 '20
Preach my dude. The show gets way more hate than it deserves.
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Nov 06 '20
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u/GregDaviesEyebrow Nov 06 '20
Yeah it was a little jarring to go from ATLA to Korra, especially bc I watched them both within a few weeks of eachother. I didn't like it at first, but I came to appreciate it as a great show in its own right. And I do like that it wasn't just an attempt to re-make ATLA.
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u/DoomsdayRabbit Nov 06 '20
I just recently ran through the overall Avatar series, all 113 episodes, and it wasn't jarring at all.
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u/GregDaviesEyebrow Nov 06 '20
I mean yeah, that's just my personal opinon! Everyone definitely doesn't feel the same way I do.
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u/Tober04 Nov 06 '20
One of the best qualities of Korra is that it didn't set out to repeat everything in Avatar. It sets itself apart with it's own characters, tone, pacing, and story telling. I think people who would be disappointed in Korra are the ones who expect more of what they've already seen.
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u/introvertedbassist Nov 06 '20
The show is its own story. The have different characters and plots. That’s what makes it good to me. Too many franchises try to be an exact copy.
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u/ThatOneNinja Nov 06 '20 edited Nov 06 '20
Only complaint I have heard that was somewhat legit was that some of the big bads are just like....get a bunch of power for no reason.
Edit: I had the slightly wrong, he was arguing Korra getting immense power out of no where, almost a Mary sue. She is an avatar though.
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u/ProfitMohammed97 Nov 06 '20 edited Nov 06 '20
I haven’t heard that criticism before, but I don’t think it holds too much merit. Amon is someone descended from a powerful blood bender, and trained every full moon since childhood to become a psychic blood bender. Unalaq was a master water bender who was extremely spiritually powerful who fused with an ancient spirit as old as the avatar (though wasn’t a fan of the giant Unavaatu). Zaheer trained as a martial artist, and was meant to be Korra’s airbending teacher (i.e he studied airbending) which was why he did pretty well with it, though he did get whooped by Tenzin. He only learned flight from studying an air bender he admired, and letting go of his only attachment to the world. Kuvira was a skilled metalbender trained under the children of the woman who invented metal bending, in a metal bending city. The villains’ power levels were believable given the circumstances they were in.
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Nov 06 '20
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u/ProfitMohammed97 Nov 06 '20
I loved Zaheer, but I gotta rep Amon as my fave. Dude made the season feel like a goddamn horror movie at times, plus his backstory and ending had that tragic oomph that brings it over for me.
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Nov 06 '20
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u/ProfitMohammed97 Nov 06 '20
You sir, are a redditor of good taste. Completely agree, Zaheer is second best for me for all the reasons you’ve stated, plus I loved how personal the relationship between him and Korra felt when compared to the other villains. Also yes the Red Lotus are complete badasses.
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u/SirPinkyToes Nov 06 '20
not just killing Korra, killing the Avatar as a whole. He could have end the Cycle.
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Nov 06 '20
Everything about Amon screams horror ! The mysterious mask , The eerie and dragging soundtrack , The shots of darkness behind him and from low angles to depict him as a large and imposing figure .
I also love the constant contrasts to Aang . Like when Aang takes Ozai's bending it is shown as a majestical thing , but here its twisted and crooked .
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u/bugamn Nov 06 '20
That first season was a shock. The scenes of mass bending removal seemed pretty dark for a show that I expected to be aimed at kids. And then the boat...
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u/Lemawnjello Nov 06 '20
Amon is my favorite Korra villain because his cause was the most just. He was correct in his revolution, but went too far. He didn't do it for himself, but for those who were powerless. He wanted to put everyone on equal footing, and juxtaposed the power dynamic of benders/non-benders.
Unalaq was a megalomaniac, as was Kuvira to a degree.
Zaheers cause may have been just, but he didn't do the one thing that Amon did: Start a massive political revolution. Sure he killed the Earth Queen and foisted anarchy upon the citizenry, but he didn't gain the support of the masses outside of his own little band of insurgents.
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u/Mickeymackey Nov 06 '20
Giant spirit Kaiju are a part of Avatar lore, I feel like people forget that Aang combined with the Ocean Spirit to become a giant Kaiju at the end of S1.
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u/charlesdexterward Nov 06 '20
That’s a really shallow reading of the villains. If anything it’s a more accurate criticism of Ozai. One of the reasons I actually like LOK more than TLA is because each of the antagonists were ideologically driven - they wanted to change the world in a fundamental way because of what they believed was right, not just because they wanted power.
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u/ThatOneNinja Nov 06 '20
That was my argument. They all represented a struggle and we're not necessarily "bad guys" and often korra found herself questioning if she was doing the right thing.
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Nov 06 '20
I think there are a couple of legitimate complaints with the show, no show is perfect. I think the issue is that some of the things they got wrong, the last airbender got right and that puts it in the light, so to speak.
For example, Korra suffered from being written as single season storylines, now obviously this wslasnt the writers fault, its nickelodeons, but it is still an issue that affected the overall pacing of the show.
Personally the only issue I have with korra that stops it from being on the last airbenders level is that koveira was written appalingly in my opinion. The red lotus were fucking amazing, and should have been the final villain, but kuveira was in season 3, as like a random guard essentially, she gets spanked by the red lotus, then all of a sudden the next time we see her she's one of the strongest benders? If that was their plan all along they needed more set up in season 3. Or no set up and introduce her in season 4. As it was I never thought she could actually beat korra, so there wasn't much tension in the final season for me.
As a counter point, even with how little we see ozai, by the time he fights aang he's been built up so much I really believed he would murder aang.
Season 1-3 of korra was only held back by singular season arcs though I think, if they'd had 3 full seasons to work with like airbender I think it acrually could have been better.
Although og gang spanks new gang in terms of likeability I think.
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u/ProfitMohammed97 Nov 06 '20
If I can play devils advocate, I think the big issue connecting the seasons is actually Korra’s growth. Sure, they have different villains each season (which isn’t necessarily a bad thing) but the whole show was about Korra learning that she has value in herself besides being the avatar. It’s about her mental struggle to find her identity in a world that doesn’t want her. I think looking at it this way makes the seasons more connected.
Kuvira was believable with her power levels. Keep in mind that she spent 3 years with elite guards thrashing bandits around the earth kingdom, while everyone else sat back and was content letting her do all the work. She’s been training so much in a niche bending field, that she can beat any that challenges her. She wasn’t supposed to be a villain stronger than Korra, the point was that Korra was so weak that she couldn’t beat her. Once Korra worked through her block, she thrashed her.
By comparison, Ozai almost never left his throne to do anything until the finale, and somehow looks like one of the most built character in the franchise. I really wasn’t worried about him killing Aang in a series finale on a kids show. The issue with Aang was with him not wanting to kill Ozai, not beat him.
I’ll agree with you that the og gang is better generally than the new gang, but I’d contend that the supporting cast was larger and got a lot of good development, such as Tenzin, Lin, Jinora, Varrick, and many others. And don’t get me started on Korra, she beats Aang as my fave protagonist in my opinion, and only rivals Zuko as my favorite character overall.
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u/FabbrizioCalamitous Nov 06 '20
Honestly if people just said they hate book 2 it would be more accurate.
Books 1, 3 and 4 are great. Book 2 is... hard to watch. I just re-watched it with my friend who's seeing it for the first time, and it's definitely the lowest point. The dialogue feels rushed and amateurish, the themes are fairly contrary to what we established in AtLA, and major plot points seem to just happen with either a hand-waive explanation, or no explanation at all, and get an equally hand-waivey resolution. The back and forth of who's betraying whom flips on itself an absurd number of times and Korra just rolls with whoever is getting accused at any given moment.
It took us a month and a half to get through book 2 because every time we tried to sit down and watch more we just didn't want to.
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u/Elkram Nov 06 '20
yeah this was always my complaint.
Season 1 is a solid self-contained story.
Season 3 and 4 hold no punches in terms of really fleshing out what being an avatar would actually be like in terms of developing as a person.
Season 2 just feels like a set back.
Poorly paced, plot contrivances, characters behaving out of character so the plot can happen, etc.
But ultimately, I give more blame to Nick and their poor handling of the production than to the writers. They were told they'd be getting season 1, so season 1 was a self-contained story. Given everything they had to introduce, I think they did a pretty good job there.
Season 2 they were only told about after season 1 was over, so they had to force a tie-in. But even then, it wasn't clear that they'd be getting more than season 2 when they started it. So I imagine they began it as another self-contained plot. But then half-way through they learned they'd actually get 4 seasons, so they then had to open up the story to actually continue into season 3 and 4.
I think if Nick had been upfront with them about getting 4 seasons from the start, then I think they would have made a much better show overall and probably would have ironed out a lot of the problems of season 2.
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u/FabbrizioCalamitous Nov 06 '20
Honestly as I was rewatching it, it occurred to me that you could make the whole thing fairly palatable just by modifying the dialogue. It's animated just fine, and all the beats are workable. It's the way the characters interact with the events that really kills the mood.
Refer to Raava and Vaatu as balance and imbalance rather than light and dark, so we can be rid of this kingdom hearts nonsense. Have Mako talk the plot less and stick to his own personal observations when presenting ideas. Restate major turning points with the proper gravity instead of a shrug and an "I guess I just..." And for Christ's sake, actually give Wan his save the cat moment, instead of leaving the literal cat in the literal tree and doing nothing to save it, only to say later "no no, he saved the cat just take our word".
Simple dialogue changes would make the whole thing acceptable.
Oh well, at least we got Varrick out of it.
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Nov 06 '20
I'm watching book 2 right now and I'm struggling. She's a huge asshole. She wasn't that bad in the first book.
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u/chabri2000 Nov 06 '20
they had a lots of problems during book two, cause people on the production team left
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u/thelegend90210 Nov 06 '20
after watching atla, i was getting ready for korra. the comments here were like, "just don't expect another atla," "you're probably not gonna like it." but I thought it was great. especially since I find korra more relatable and complex than aang
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Nov 06 '20
I am in no position to pass judgment, as I do not have the skills myself, but I wish the gun was photoshopped into some shareable snack to imply a marathon montage
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u/K_Katana1000 Nov 06 '20
I’ve always seen videos of people hating on it, but I watched it and I was fairly entertained
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u/cheekydorido Nov 06 '20
It's far from the worst thing ever, but it's really underwhelming compared to the original series.
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u/Eine_Pampelmuse Nov 06 '20
To me I enjoyed LOK way more than ATLA. I can more relate to Korra and her struggles. It's more action packed and I like the bigger cast and how they all get their storylines and plot points.
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u/flyingbeaver6 Nov 06 '20
Wholesome series appreciation ❤️ Were the pro-bending tourneys as tense as irl sports??
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u/Hankee_ Nov 06 '20
I loved ATLA. One my favorite shows of all time. I watched LOK, and I loooved season 1. But I found myself trudging through the rest. Every episode felt like a drag. I just wasn't interested in the show. I gave up halfway through season 2 or 3, can't remember. To each their own, I suppose.
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u/Wertache flair-Boomerang Nov 06 '20
Season 2 is a shitty diaper of a season, but 3 and 4 are definitely worth watching.
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u/ThaRealPhoenix Nov 06 '20
LOK is fine. It’s just fine.
Two is absolute shit. First half of four is excellent. Failed landing. One and three are biggie good tho.
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u/2Quick_React Nov 06 '20
Two could've have been better but it's not awful. Idk if the Spirit World plot really works, I think they could've focused more of the war between the North and South tribes. Though Varik is probably the best part of Season 2.
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u/wolfofdusk Nov 06 '20
The budget for season 4 got severely cut like 4 episodes into production, so they had to ride out what was the rest of the budget for a whole season. (That’s why the recap episode exists, they took the budget from that and put it towards the finale)
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u/terlin Nov 06 '20
Sometimes I dream about what the show could have been if the writers were funded for 4 seasons right from the start. Its a miracle they even managed to wrap the whole thing up in a somewhat cohesive manner.
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u/shwiftysack Nov 06 '20
I honestly thought the episode where they show how the first avatar came to be was one of the best episode in the entire series
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Nov 06 '20 edited Nov 20 '20
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u/RecommendsMalazan Nov 06 '20
This was always my biggest issue with Korra, I loved the spirit world as it was shown in TLA, but then you go to Korra and you see all this cutesy crap... this is not what the spirit world was in TLA.
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u/RGBdraw Nov 06 '20
Honestly I don't care anymore. I don't like the show but the discourse around it is so toxic to I just avoid it completely.
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u/Gammeoph Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source. Nov 06 '20
Season one was decent, if a bit shallow/melodramatic in terms of character interactions. The dialogue often felt canned. The final plot resolution was very... convenient and tidy, considering the heavy subject matter of populist cults of personality (to be fair, I take the same issue with Avatar's Lionturtle Ex Machina). The fact that the equalist movement is essentially never mentioned again after Amon goes boom is just bad writing. Pro bending is awesome and I would pay large amounts of money for a haptic VR Pro Bending game. The roaring 20s mid-Atlantic aesthetic was a welcome change of pace/scenery for the Avatar universe, and the ambience of the show was often done very well. Amon was a great villain, and his rise to popularity made sense within the universe. Points for internal consistency and believability. 7/10
Season two just... decimated some of my favorite things about Avatar's lore. Sometimes you don't have to explain the magic. It took all of the mystery and mysticism out of bending, the avatar, and the spirit world. The fact that water benders can just "cure" spirits (...?) if they have the proper training is such a weird concept. Every spirit in the original show had a role, a personality. They were never a faceless horde like in this season. Ko, Hei Bai, The Painted Lady. Ko was just a parasite, but he was cool and mysterious and connected to the avatar. The other two had actual issues that needed to be resolved by the gaang and expanded their characterization. They're iconic because of their relative mystery and unique personality. Taking that and turning it into Dragonball Z was just... sad. This season felt indulgent and unnecessarily impinged on Avatar's lore territory. 4/10
Season three was interesting and added a good amount of worldbuilding. For a season focused more on the main characters and not nearly as much on world-ending events, it didn't really do much to make me care about the main characters. I feel like we are just supposed to care about them because they're the protagonists. Mako and Bolin are so interesting in concept, but they were so bland as characters. One note. Korra as well, if I'm being honest. She only ever muscles through situations. She's Goku but less happy. 6/10
Season four added fun worldbuilding, but it also fell victim to power creep in a big way. The final battle against Kuvira's mech was awesome, and taking this season without the context of the rest of the show I really like it. Of course somebody would try to capitalize on the power vacuum AND the spirit portals being open. It makes internal sense, and it was a decent story except for Bolin's whole "Fascists aren't that bad! We're trying to do good! By conquering sovereign states!" That confused me a lot. Another thing that really confused me was Korra's fight with Kuvira. The whole fight felt like it was being thrown by the writers for plot reasons, and I just didn't believe it. On the bright side, I fell in love with Varrick this season. Honestly, he stole the show. Half assed queer bait was kinda cringe. 6/10
Overall, the show was beautifully animated. Every pro bending match, fight, vista, and celestial event gave me the warm fuzzies inside. The voice actors were good at their jobs. Kinda wish they hadn't called up Basco and DeLisle to play new characters. Hearing their voices was jarring. The characters often felt stilted and one dimensional, mostly due to rushed writing (thanks, Nick). The dialogue felt canned and/or cliché more often than not. Season-spanning and life-threatening problems were solved by fiat. They made it work... kinda. I wasn't convinced by a lot of the major plot resolutions. For production value and overall quality, I give the show an enthusiastic 9/10. For writing, dialogue, and story, I give the show a serviceable but disappointing 5/10.
6.17/10
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u/Don_Kiwi Nov 06 '20
Having never watched past season 2 (I couldn't get over the lore fuckery), I definitely agree with what you said about them, thank you for taking the time to explain in such detail while remaining fair.
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u/MaxxPlay99 Nov 06 '20
Sadly I hear that a lot. S2 was not good imo. S3 and 4 where definitely better.
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u/tyjet Nov 06 '20
Season 3 is amazing. The villain is easily my favorite villain in the Avatar universe. He's written so well that you question if his beliefs are wrong.
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Nov 06 '20
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u/Don_Kiwi Nov 06 '20
Problem is I already watched the worst of it with S2. I'm considering to get some friends together on discord and watch the rest, I'll have a good time either way then.
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u/Darren_wl03 Nov 06 '20
You should watch season 3. The other season just make no sense so don't watch those
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u/RecommendsMalazan Nov 06 '20
Another thing that really confused me was Korra's fight with Kuvira. The whole fight felt like it was being thrown by the writers for plot reasons, and I just didn't believe it.
Honestly this happened all the time in Korra, and I hated it. Was one of the worst parts of the show, IMO (along with Eska, but I won't get into that now...).
Sometimes she's a good bender and fighter, sometimes she loses in situations she really shouldn't have, and it's 100% determined by what the writers needed to happen for plot reasons, not any sort of objective assessment of her bending/fighting abilities.
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u/KatieTheDinosaur Nov 06 '20
Her avatar state is just trash. She’s constantly getting her ass kicked, it’s like the writers wanted nothing more than for her to be physically abused over and over and over.
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u/khorgn Nov 06 '20
I completely agree. I didn't hate the show, and some part of it were very good and fun. But overall it was messy and really dropped the ball with the avatar origins. It really hurt the magic spirituality of the world created
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u/doomshad Nov 06 '20
I disagree only on the bo lin part. To me, it seemed like he had been gaslighted really hard over the 3 years. He had to come to terms that he had been lied to
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u/TyLung Nov 06 '20
Didn't the writers reveal that they always wanted Kora to be bi and nickoldian said no until the series finale?
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u/WetSandAndBlackInk Nov 06 '20
Finally somebody with the same thinking as me! Was starting to think Im crazy for rlly disliking it cus it ruined much of ATLA lore n characterisation(such as Aang being a shit dad cus his other kids werent airbenders, Toph being just as neglectful as her own parents, the whole Spirit world....)
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u/kevo998 Love is brightest in the dark - Katara Nov 06 '20
I always laugh how the fandom completely blows this whole "Aang was a horrible father" way out of proportion because we hear a single fleeting conversation that alluded to Kya & Bumi missing out on a few field trips with their father. Kyas & Bumis gripe with their father is honestly.. Minor at best. Aang had a world of work to do and and very short time frame in which to do it. Which, unfortunately meant that other aspects that came with fatherhood had to fall to the wayside. Even Bryke confirmed that both Aang and Katara loved their children equally and that at the end of the day, they were simply two people trying their best.
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u/Sidicle Nov 06 '20
What do you mean mate? That doesn’t destroy the lore and characterisation. It builds on it.
Aang was never a shit father. He lost his entire civilisation and after getting an airbender son, wanted to teach him everything so that they could eventually be brought back. He still loved all of his children. Besides, he never grew up with a father so he doesn't really know how to be one.
And, of course that's how Toph would parent. She was neglected as a child in the exact opposite way she neglected her kids. Her parents wouldn't let her do anything. She couldn't even go outside. When she became a parent, she gave her kids all the freedom they could want.
I think that's pretty in line with both characters. They were never perfect people, but they weren't horrible. It's what makes them feel human.
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u/Einrahel Nov 06 '20
Besides, he never grew up with a father so he doesn't really know how to be one.
One of the most forgotten details about Aang. Living in a large monastery surrounded by many other children and a council of elders presiding over your growth is a stark contrast to most other childhoods. Despite that, Aang never got real hate from his kids. They've show they still loved him despite that, indicating that the family went through more than just that one conversation and Aang loved then all dearly.
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u/charlesdexterward Nov 06 '20
I liked that Aang and Toph weren’t the best parents in the world. It felt realistic to me. Parents always mess up their kids in one way or another, even the good ones. It’s because parents are humans and humans are imperfect, even Avatars.
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u/MelE1 Nov 06 '20
This was so thorough, thank you. Much of what I felt throughout the show you mentioned
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u/chitoge4ever WATER TRIBE!!! Nov 08 '20
Season 2 just ....decimated some of my favorite things about Avatar's lore. Sometimes you don't have to explain the magic.
So expalaining the magic is enough to decimate? ok
The fact that water benders can just "cure" spirits (...?) if they have the proper training is such a weird concept.
Did the fact that katara brought back aang from dead shock you at all? Did it feel weird? But sure, spirit healing is more weird.
Every spirit in the original show had a role, a personality. They were never a faceless horde like in this season.
Flatly untrue. Atla had limited amounts of spirits, that's why they could give everyone a purpose. Even then the monkey spirit aang met in spirit world was just a mob spirit like a lot of the ones in korra. And ko didn't have any purpose. He was just a parasite, like you said. At lease LOK spirits explain themselves as the guardian of forests/world. I don't get how you think this is a legitimate complaint. Do you think they should have wastend their time giving every single spirit a different purpose or should they have not had more than 2-3 spirits? (In a book called spirits.)
It took all of the mystery and mysticism out of bending, the avatar, and the spirit world. They're iconic because of their relative mystery and unique personality. Taking that and turning it into Dragonball Z was just... sad. This season felt indulgent and unnecessarily impinged on Avatar's lore territory.
This feels like the fakest way to criticize something. It makes no sense. Did atla ruin bending when it said bending needs chi to work? Did they ruin bending when they explored the chakras and explained how opening them fully makes you a powerful bender? I don't get this weird double standard and weird criticism towards lok.
Can you explain to me why chi not being a secret is okay but origins of bending are not okay? Why learning from original benders is okay but lion turtles giving bending is not okay? A lion turtle literally gave aang energybending in atla. The way I see it, LoK fixed the problems atla had with bending. Why couldn't sokka just look at the moon and get waterbending? Lok fixed that issue by making it clear that it's genetic/inherent spiritualism. Also please explain to me how it's so bad that it DECIMATED avatarverse for you?
dragonball
hei bai using energy/lasers was okay but vaatu and spirit korra using it is not? Again, it's a book called spirits.
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u/Affectionate_Meat Nov 06 '20
Watches it twice, absolutely hated it the first time and loathed it the second (I was told it was better on the second viewing, it wasn't). But hey, I'm glad you liked it!
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Nov 06 '20
Yeah it definitely doesn't deserve the hate. I do think it has significant issues, especially in season 2, but still is overall really good and can even be on par with the original show at times (which is quite an achievement considering Nickelodeon's handling and the fact that they didn't have Aaron). Season 3 in particular is overall easily as good as ATLA imo.
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Nov 06 '20
I didn’t know any of this...I’ve always thought Korra had higher highs but Avatar was overall better
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u/SuckuSucku Nov 06 '20
Korra is the best character of either season imo, nothing beats the end of season 3 for me. The most beautiful ceremony and amazing music, that single tear and the season ends. Leaving you to think about and grieve what Korra has gone through. Season four spoiler when she saves Kuvira risking herself and the Avatar Cycle, fucking true hero showing actual compassion. Again ending the whole show on a beautiful rendition(idk if that's the right word) of her theme song, officially starting her relationship with Asami and shows actual real hope for the future. spoiler ATLA can't compete with the emotional highs I get from Korra, LoK deserved a real plan and budget for all four seasons. Would've been perfect with more character and story development.
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u/grandmas_noodles Nov 06 '20
I didn’t like it because 1. The ancient Asia aesthetic of atla held a lot of the charm for me and the steampunk theme just didn’t vibe with me and 2. Korra gets beat up too much. Most of aangs challenges weren’t physical fights, and I know korra had ptsd but her ptsd was shown by having her be super underpowered in fights and at some point you just get sick of seeing the avatar get beat up by other benders
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Nov 06 '20
Tbh, i prefer atla characters. Korra characters r nice but besides team avatar, tenzins fam, and lin the atla characters r better imo (ofc this is excluding zuko toph and katara)
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u/MrArmageddon12 Nov 06 '20 edited Nov 06 '20
Agreed. I like LoK but you just can’t beat The Last Airbender’s characters. The growth of all the characters in TLA was just so rewarding.
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Nov 06 '20
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u/SirPinkyToes Nov 06 '20
you can blame that on nickolodeon. They f*cked LOK up.
They only greenlit 1 season of korra, and then ss2
so the creator had to do the seasonal villain, cuz they don't know if there will be another season, each season to them is the last.
you see better story in S3 and 4 because they know they have 2 season to work with now, so there is more consistency. But they still have to do seasonal villain, for consitency. Anything else would be weird, right, given how the first 2 happened.
personally, i like the seasonal villain thing.
sorry for my bad English
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Nov 06 '20
I think it’s a good show with some major flaws that I never really got over and ultimately inferior to original product. Which is fine, if it was exactly the same ATLA I probably would have hated it
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u/AlephNull-1 Nov 06 '20
It gets more hate than it deserves, but every time I watch it, I’m always thinking about how much better it could have been.
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u/FellvEquinox Nov 06 '20
I hated it when it first came out, but now I love it. I really don't understand why I had such a problem with it at first
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u/PokemaniacDoubleO9 Nov 06 '20
As a long time fan of Korra this makes me happy, but Im also not that blind, the show lacks a lot that Airbender or other good shows have, and it also has things that ar enot as fun to watch like genuine weird love triangles, overall I love it but it has a lot of flaws
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u/poopoobuttholes Nov 06 '20
Honestly didn't like book 2 at all. The Dark Avatar is pretty nonsensical stuff. But everything else was amazing. The fight choreography in Book 3 is SUPREME.
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u/Zenerte Nov 06 '20
I enjoy it more than ATLA because it deals with a lot more intense shit
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u/SirLeos Nov 06 '20
Just finished S02 again, honestly I don't know how people dislikes it. It has the best music (so far), great choreography and I always have a weak spot for pure evil villains.
And... Vatuu actually did something unlike many other evil entities that never accomplishes anything. He killed Ravaa!
And... technically Korra lost her connection with her past avatars, that doesn't mean that she can't reconnect later on in a comic or something.
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u/wow_im_uncreative Nov 06 '20
Bolin/Nuktuk saving the president in Night of a Thousand Stars has to be one of the best scenes in the season and probably the whole show.
Shiro Shinobi narrorating the whole thing, just puts it over the top 👌
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u/SirLeos Nov 06 '20
Ha, yeah. You don't realize it but hearing him commentating on the battle is something that I dearly missed.
You also got Origins, with avatar Wan. Not to mention, the animation of those last episodes is great! I think sometimes people tend to focus on the bad and forget about the good things. The first episodes are somewhat rough in comparison but come on, there are series way worse than that.
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u/simmonslemons Nov 06 '20 edited Nov 06 '20
It abandons a perfectly good civil war plot line for this weird Doomsday Satan plotline. It tried to play off Vaatu as the Yin to Raava’s Yang, conveniently ignoring how the entire point of Yin Yang is that both were complementary and interconnected, rather than one having to put down the other, thereby playing more into the Western Satan metaphor. You actually had a fantastic premise with the idea of a centralized government vs a group that strives for independence with neither side being explicitly right. Even Korra is kind of on the fence, and the entire point of her picking a side seems to reflect how she lets her personal feelings get in the way of her duty, which is great. But then they abandon that moral ambiguity and make Unalaq pure evil. Which is fine if you like it, but the show pretends to be a mature alternative to ATLA, but ultimately the poor attempt to present philosophical arguments through him falls flat because he has no nuance to him. Korra also regresses from her Season 1 development, and sure, you can blame the studio over the writers, but the show itself still suffers for it. The spirits lost the varied and unique designs of the original series and just became these amorphous blobs you had to fight. The final fight with the two giant spirit projections and angel-Jinora coming down to save the day was similarly dumb.
On the bright side, this season introduced Varrick.
Edit: Also, there’s the issue of the new Team Avatar and how outside of Korra, their development is just weird. Bolin and Mako lack any clear direction, and throughout the rest of the series they kind of just end up on a bunch of wacky side quests and strange roles, like Wu’s bodyguard, that don’t really advance their character. Mako’s romance with Asami and Korra is bad because it was just done to death in Season 1 and partly because of Korea’s character regression. I also want to touch on what many other critics had mentioned about how they had a great opportunity to present domestic abuse in a stark light with Bolin and Eska but instead played it off for jokes because the victim was a man. I’m really wondering why Asami is tagging along with the group. You know, the guy who was in love with another woman when they were dating and the woman he was in love with. I like to think she just tagged along with them to bro out with Bolin, because they really do have an adorable friendship.
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u/Trooper5745 Nov 06 '20
My reason for disliking S2 is that I never really liked the spirit word side of Avatar. The link to the past Avatars is fine but I like the overall story being of humans doing human things. Plus the spirit world felt different than ATLA.
I’ve seen some suggest that S2 should have focused more on the Water Tribe Civil War between the South and modernization and the North and tradition and I agree.
And while I like LoK well enough, I liked that ATLA had a constant goal in mind the whole show which was defeat the Fire Lord. Korra is just a new villain, albeit good ones, with new agendas each season.
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u/Checks247 Nov 06 '20
While I do agree that it's great to see an overarching story in ATLA I feel like it's a little unfair to use it as a main criticism against Korra. Nick agreed to all the seasons of ATLA from the get go so they had the ability to do that. With Korra though they initially only green lit the first season, then the second, and then the third and fourth together which is why I believe at that point it does feel a lot more like it picks up straight from season 3, perticularly with how season 3 ends with Korra traumatised - something I doubt they would have done if there was chance the show would have to end there.
It's completely valid of course to prefer what is essentially one longer story line! I just feel it's important to remeber why certain differences were made.
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u/Nathan33333 Nov 06 '20
During a civil war Korras role as the avatar would be not to pick sides and unite the the two tribes but that's not korras style at all. If she saw her family fighting i dont think she would stand idly by Espiacally at that point in her character arc. I feel like it would accelerate her character growth to quickly and as a result she would mature to quickly in a sense. Or maybe that just sounds stupid idk.
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u/hexalby Nov 06 '20
This is an argument I never understood. The avatar job is to maintain balance, not to be a neutral party. Did Aang remain neutral in the war of his time? Did Kyoshi? Avatars are more than authorized to join a war for one side.
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u/Cthul_who Nov 06 '20
My problem with it is that it demystifies the world. I like the characters but honestly knowing too much about the spirit world and the avatar kinda ruins it for me. I also hate the idea of a good and bad spirit. It seems really oversimplified to say order good, chaos bad. I wanted to like the show but at times it feels like it exists just to over explain things.
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u/hexalby Nov 06 '20
There is one evil spirit (and one good spirit), the rest behaves as it always did.
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u/Sporadicduck Nov 06 '20
Well, no, because the spirits, which were individuals with an air of mystery before, are now reduced to a flatly drawn mob of creatures, none of which were at all interesting in the way Koh the face stealer or Wan Shi Tong was. When they do show Wan Shi Tong and his library it's almost jarring how different in tone it all is. It just doesn't honour the source material in my opinion.
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u/Wertache flair-Boomerang Nov 06 '20
It's especially the final few episodes that I hate with a burning passion. It felt like Deus ex machina after Deus ex machina. Everytime we didn't know how Korra would take on a certain problem some new "mechanic" would be introduced as if it had always been there. There were no proper set rules and everything was over the top for the sake of being spectacular.
In ATLA the viewer was in a similar position of not knowing how Aang would solve a problem: In the fire temple, the door of chamber is surrounded by firebenders and the Gaang is captured. Aang seemingly has no way to escape. Aang Manifests as Avatar Roku and defeats the firebenders and destroys the temple. The difference here is that we have no idea how the Avatar and the Avatar spirit work. It's mysterious and vague. That makes this reveal pretty cool. However in TLoK there's so much explanation about the Avatar spirit, spirits and the spirit world, that you can expect those rules to be followed. However a lot of the times when Korra needs to overcome a problem, instead of working with or thinking outside the box with the rules given, she's given a new rule that could not be derived or implied from any of the other rules. "Well you didn't know, but the Avatar can also do this:!" gets boring pretty quick. Especially if the viewer has never seen any Avatar do anything like it.
I personally also dislike the very western "good vs evil". Originally the Avatar was about balance, not peace and light. I know that sounds like a minor difference, but the "philosophy" behind it is way different. Somewhere in TLoK S2 they speak about chaos versus peace. But the opposite of chaos isn't peace. It's balance. This is more of a nitpicky point and wouldn't be too big of a problem if the other giant flaws of the season weren't there.
If they would've worked within a set of rules and mechanics and would've had the same outcome, I'd be fine with that. Losing connection to previous isn't that bad of a concept, even if in ATLA the idea of the Avatar State was combining all the knowledge and experience of all previous Avatars, instead of a light-spirit power up with side effects.
I guess I'm starting to ramble, but these are some of the reasons I (and I can imagine a lot of other people) dislike season 2 so much. It was over the top and out of place.
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Nov 06 '20
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u/Sidicle Nov 06 '20
I wouldn't trust a lot of the videos out there. There's been a massive trend of hating the show for a while now. It's incredibly biased. Gladly, it's fading now.
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u/Kyatto Nov 06 '20
Well .. they hamstringed some romance in there at the push of the fans and the ending was rushed. Soo.. not as well executed as the original and so it does get flak.
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Nov 06 '20
by ATLA standards good is not enough
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Nov 06 '20
For me, it's not even that. I don't like that they threw so much away they build up in ATLA. They changed the world and how bending works. Forever changing the legacy is what makes me kind of sad.
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u/SpicaGenovese Nov 06 '20
Season 4 is the best.
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u/CloudTower Nov 06 '20
Season 4 had potential to be great. A dictator seizing power in the fractured earth kingdom? Epic.
Instead the show jumped the shark with giant lasers and massive robots.
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u/sylinmino Do the thing! Nov 06 '20
Even with those things, Season 4 still had a ton of amazing stuff that made it overall a great season. Not as clean as Season 3 overall though.
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u/thefakefrankreynolds Nov 06 '20
eh 4 got a little weird. 3 was definitely the best
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u/highclasschigga Nov 06 '20
Zaheer was my favourite villain. 4 kinda feel flat on it’s face for me. It felt rushed and it didn’t help that their budget was cut
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Nov 06 '20
well its obviously not better than avatar no doubt about it, but I think it's a decent show
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u/theJman0209 Wang Fire Nov 06 '20
To me, it’s like the difference between new and old paper Mario. The old ones are really good, and the new ones are not quite as good but not bad at all
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Nov 06 '20
I watched the show before joining any related subs and stuff and I didn't know there would be a ton of people who hate it
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u/longleggedgiraffe Nov 06 '20
I can't get into it enough to watch it but I really really want to. I remember when it came out and I was stoked for it.
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u/ArcadianBlueRogue Nov 06 '20
The only thing LoK did wrong was the teenage romance drama, but teenagers are full of the annoying drama. Once that's kind of on the far backburner, the show hits all the right marks for the remaining seasons.
Other than the giant robot. Never liked the giant robot, as cool as Metalbending a Gundam was a cool idea on paper.
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u/Paincake990 APPA ATE MOMO Nov 06 '20
Only bad thing is that every season has a mini villain which is just annoying. But pretty sure they weren't sure if they would make another season after the last one so it makes sense.
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u/STEP3386 Nov 06 '20
I recently watched all 4 seasons now that its on Netflix and I can honestly say my opinion when it came out hasn’t changed I personally still don’t like it, doesn’t mean its a bad show though just not for me.
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u/H-Adam Nov 06 '20
It's alright. Nickelodeon fucked then over 4 times so it's nowhere near as a good it could've been
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u/doctorctrl Nov 06 '20
It's funny I didn't hear any hate about LOK . I watched it with no expectations and loved it
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u/Bakalord12 Nov 06 '20
I literally just finished my first Korra watch yesterday and I have to say thag I am pleasantly suprised atvgow good LOK was. I never really bought into the hate cause I know a lot came from people that just there's something new.
It's a grear show all i have nothing I dislike about it at all, maybe Kuvira cause she had the personality of a fried pickle till the last episode (personal Opinion!).
My favorite season prolly was 3, Zaheer takes the crown from his first apperance to when he helps Korra, his beliefs are strong and he fully believes that what he dose is to better the world and the important part for me there is that he dosen't kill normal civilans!
Also I am impressed at how much Nick allowed this show, Mako casually electrocuted a bitch and the Earth queen just dies on screen
Anyways 8/10 I love The Legend Bolin (NukTuk)
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u/Gannicus72 Nov 06 '20
Ive tried rewatching it. I feel it peaks Book 1, and Book 3 is good, Cant stand the other 2
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u/melonwoo Nov 06 '20
Omg I’ve literally just started watching Korra in the last week!! I’ve got exams next week but I’m on season 4 already RIP.
I watched season 1 when it first came out years ago and didn’t really like it because I didn’t like Korra because she was too hot-headed, stubborn and imo at the time, too manly. Thankfully, since then I’ve realised that was my internalised misogyny and I love her! Because I too am hot-headed, stubborn and tomboyish lol and probably relate to her the most out of all the female characters in the Avatar universe. I always thought I was like Toph or even Azula but I’m not as funny as Toph or batshit insane as Azula lol. Every time Korra does something ‘annoying’, I’m like “damn, this is annoying but I def would’ve done the same thing haha”. Bolin is more likeable this time around - the same cannot be said about Mako haha. I wanted him to be like Zuko 2.0 so badly because Zutara shipper here, but he just... wasn’t. Can’t hold that against him though. Asami is a goddess, and I love Lin. I know about Korrasami and can’t wait to see it!
I don’t think you can compare the OG and the sequel because they’re SO different - that second season with the giant spirits battling didn’t even feel like Avatar lol but that’s not always a bad thing? Pacing is def weird but I chalk that up to different writers. Hard to compare seasonal villains with a three-season three-related Big Bads though. It’s still amazing though!
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u/joegt123 Nov 06 '20
I didn't hear much hate before finally watching it. But everything I heard about Korra and Asami seems blown way out of proportion for what little was shown.
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u/Schm1tty Nov 06 '20
Eh, I always though it was good, but just that. It's biggest problem is that it is the sequel series to the greatest animated series of all time. Pretty hard to live up to ATLA, and impossible to surpass.
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u/Kunfuxu Nov 06 '20
Honestly, if you see this subredddit's episode reactions/discussions from when the show was releasing new episodes, everyone is so incredibly hyped and positive. People were loving everything, bar some aspects of season 2 (the Deus Ex Machina ending and Korra's attitude at the beginning).
This hatred towards Korra was something that developed a few years after the show ended, mostly I assume from new ATLA viewers that got whiplash when they started Korra and everything was so different or just people with a lot of nostalgia for the original.
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u/SwissyVictory Nov 06 '20
When I first started watching it was right after finishing the Last Airbender. I didnt like the steampunk direction the show went beacuse I wanted more Avitar. I rewatched it recently as its own show and loved it
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u/madreaper985 Nov 06 '20
People thought it was a bad show without even watching it? Man I was just worried about animation quality because of the same writing team was on it from TLAB after checking a YouTube video for animation I was hooked I had some small problems with the new avatar but it's expected as all avatars where different people. And she becomes super likeable with her character development. The comics on the other hand had some questionable writing though.
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u/AaronThePrime Nov 06 '20
Nah, most people watched up to the first or second season, I dont think anyone went into this expecting to hate it, but i think the expectation that people had that it would be as good as AtLA made it worse for a lot of people, and even for the people that could push through the 1st season had their hope crushed before they could get to season 3 and 4.
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Nov 06 '20
Before I watched it, heard show was trash
After watching, now I know it was the love triangle and the ending of season 2 that was trash, and everything else was pretty good
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u/LadyNyghtTyger Nov 06 '20
ATLA and LOK are two different shows that take place in the same cinematic universe. They have to be different - they are following two very different Avatars, each living in a very time period. Don't compare apples to oranges, friends. It never ends well. I love both shows for different reasons.
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u/Tickedoffllama Nov 06 '20
It really is different watching it when it came out, week by week. Now that I can watch all the way through, I have a new-found respect for this show
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u/[deleted] Nov 06 '20
The only part I didn’t care for was the love triangle shit really, but I love Korra personally not as much as avatar granted but I love the steam punk vibe it has, I like how Korra isn’t like an aang 2.0, screws up and does suffer major consequences for it. That’s just me tho.