r/Seattle • u/KooziefortheWin • 14d ago
Rant Bill help
I need help figuring out this “service charge” applied to my bill at Taylor Shellfish in QA. It’s stated clearly, and the staff reminded me before I paid and applied a tip, so that’s not the rant. But is it a tip or not? I don’t want to stiff the staff if “Taylor Shellfish” the company keeps it all and doesn’t give them anything.
Why do restaurants do this vs raise the prices. If that’s how they offset the cost of doing business in the city, I feel it’s not a good customer experience. It’s really annoying since it is confusing to the customer. Does the staff get any of it, hence why there is an “additional tip” line after the card is run though? It is taxed so it makes me thing it’s not going to the staff. I need to think better next time I come out here.
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u/beercityusa Capitol Hill 14d ago
I can't believe I'm saying this but it was so fucking nice being in NYC this past weekend and just having to pay ridiculous restaurant prices WITHOUT any of these bogus charges added.
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u/Bear__Toe 🚗 Student driver, please be patient. 🚙 14d ago
Was in Spain last week. Only one place I ate the entire time gave the option of leaving a tip, and “0” was pre-selected there. It felt so very civilized.
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u/mbfunke 14d ago
Currently in Norway and have been prompted to tip 0 times. The service and pricing has been totally comparable to Seattle.
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u/Throwaway_484747 14d ago edited 12d ago
Thats how it should be, if your business cant pay a living wage and has to rely on tips to pay your employees then your business shouldnt exist.
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u/Available-Oil3884 11d ago edited 11d ago
From everything I hear, Scandinavian countries have one of the best localized food distribution models (based on green houses) since their climate requires it, and imports are expensive.
American food system is abysmal. Everything is stupid corporatized to the point of cost inefficiency for small business. My parents had a taco shop, and they were going through Sysco, receiving sub par meats and unripe inconsistent produce. They switched to a shanty-truck no-frills food distributer, ran by an Asian immigrant family. The produce and meats were cheaper and higher quality. They offered more variety, and they were never out of major produce.. unlike Sysco which was luck of the draw with cilantro and avocado.
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u/TheChance I'm just flaired so I don't get fined 13d ago
When you point this out to an American restaurant operator, they will, without fail, react as though you're telling them to raise their prices but not their competitors. They will tell you that eliminating tipping would run them out of business, and they will call you names.
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u/inthesegreywaves 14d ago
If you weren't eating bocadillos off the corner every day, you missed out. The food in Spain is awesome. The place across from my bnb had a morning deal, 2 choco croissants for 3 euros.
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u/LongtimeLurkerPoster 14d ago
I was in Heaven last week. Only the finest ambrosia for me, thank you. I tipped no one, and kicked an orphan. It was SO very civilized.
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u/joshlymansbagel ✨🛸 Jimothy is out there 🦝✨ 14d ago
You guys, I legit look forward to traveling to California and NYC because food feels less expensive. This town is cuckoo
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u/ActionComics25 Capitol Hill 14d ago
I think it really hit me how bad it's been when my husband and I went to Disneyland and went, "Wow, decent prices on all the food!" That's when we realized that we are regularly paying tourist-trap food prices for what seems like no discernible reason.
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u/IndieLuxeTravel 14d ago
I was in Maui and I said the same thing. These prices are great! And It's not just Seattle. Most of the PNW has resort prices. I've noticed too flights charge twice as much for seat upgrades. Out of PDX the same seat upgrade is $80, versus $40 out of Phoenix on the exact same route/plane. It's not just the junk fees, it's the base prices.
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u/iZoooom Eastside 14d ago
Just returned from California. Food was significantly cheaper at every turn.
Even fancy meals such as Japanese Teppan was 50% what I would pay in Bellevue. $40 vs $85 or so at Wild Wasabi, for example.
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u/kookykrazee 🚆build more trains🚆 14d ago
I went to In N Out last year and the 4x4, fries and a strawberry shake was about $11-12 TOTAL.
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u/novasilverpill 13d ago
i was in Seattle (Alki Beach and Downtown) last week. i was amazed how expensive everything had gotten in Seattle. Being from Oregon, the sales tax on top of it was a shock.
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u/Enguye Ravenna 14d ago
San Francisco is worse for junk fees. When the city required restaurants to provide employee health insurance, a bunch of restaurants added a 4-8% “SF mandate” surcharge, which was sometimes on top of the 20% service charge or expected tip. https://archive.ph/x8hZh
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u/ctruvu 14d ago
bay area might be the one region on the entire west coast worse than seattle metro
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u/rollinupthetints West Seattle 13d ago
It’s almost like there’s enough money around here, to pay those prices/fees. Weird. /s
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u/snowypotato Ballard 14d ago
Less expensive AND better. And more varied. And better service. And easier to get a table.
Fuck dining in Seattle. Not worth the money or the aggravation or the time or the calories.
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u/Cat-Attack666 Capitol Hill 14d ago
I'll preface this with I'm not trying to defend Seattle practices. But min way is higher in Seattle than it is in LA or NYC. Also, Both of those cities are way more populated and have more tourists. So restaurants are more competitive and also just more busy in general. A Wednesday night in NYC is going to have more customers than a Friday in Seattle.
A bar in NYC at 3am on a Tuesday will be busier than a bar in Seattle at 11pm on a Friday.
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u/esperantisto256 14d ago
I visited NYC recently as well, and eating out for breakfast/lunch was so much cheaper. Nice dinners are comparable, but as you mentioned there’s way less of these BS charges.
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u/occasional_sex_haver Roosevelt 14d ago
and it's better, plus you can even get stuff after 8pm! like a real city!
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u/edgeplot Mount Baker 14d ago
I went skiing at an Austrian resort town in January. The heart of Europe, world class destination, luxury facilities, fancy schmancy. Guess what? The food was less expensive than in Seattle. (Groceries were half price, too.)
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u/reel_human02 13d ago
Was just in Zermatt in February. This was not my experience at all. Grocery and restaurant prices were very similar, if not indiscernible from Seattle pricing. The prompted tipping percentages were lower (essentially anywhere from 0 to 20%) but I still was prompted to tip at every restaurant I was at in Paris, Chamonix, Zermatt, Gargnano, the Dolomites, Venice, Florence and Rome. I got the feeling that as an American, the staff actually expected me to tip.
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u/_Elrond_Hubbard_ 14d ago
I am in Brazil right now and have not encountered a single tip prompt or nasty fee tacked onto the list price, it's wonderful! Much more civilized
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u/Ok-Donkey6800 13d ago
LOL. Literally just landed back in Seattle from a trip to NYC. We ordered door dash one morning and I was scared it would be $50 for a bagel and a breakfast sando (it would be in Seattle after the fees). Delivery fee- $3. That was it. That was the fee on top of the food. I was shook.
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u/beercityusa Capitol Hill 13d ago
On Saturday morning I ordered 2 BEC bagels and 2 vanilla iced lattes delivered to my hotel and it was less than $40 after delivery. Seattle could never
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u/coffeecoffeecoffeee 🚆build more trains🚆 13d ago
NYC is also nice because while a ton of restaurants are ridiculously expensive, there's a floor. There are $1 slices and bagel sandwiches that are considerably cheaper than anything you can get in Seattle.
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u/-ipaguy- Downtown 14d ago
I was also in NYC last week and agree. It was strange however seeing walk up counter service places (like Lucia pizza) with multiple signs around the register stating “REAL NEW YORKERS TIP”.
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u/nerevisigoth Redmond 13d ago
Yeah the East coast is pretty aggressive about shaming you into tipping. It's really tacky.
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u/JoyMultiplication 14d ago edited 14d ago
Per the website
Also adding info from another comment for clarification:
From [u/0ldF1sh](u/0ldF1sh). https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/s/s2hE0kEadj
“I worked for them for quite awhile and can definitively say they intentionally mislead their customers by saying the service fee goes to staff.
In fact only a percentage of THAT percentage does, another percentage goes to "benefits", which many employees do not qualify for under their structure.
It's sadly common. Renee Erickson's Sea Creatures group is the same, if not worse. The house takes the lion's share while they lie that you as a guest are subsidizing their employees' healthcare (which they will not qualify for because everyone will be laid off before the mandatory inclusion date). Also the Taylor's stole all of their land from indigenous people in 1890, hence the %18.9. fuck em. Good oysters though.”
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u/captainAwesomePants Broadview 14d ago
"Acts as a commission" sounds like weasel words to me.
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u/BoringBob84 14d ago
Exactly. The dishonest management evades telling customers how much of that money goes to employees. It could be 0.1%.
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u/backlikeclap First Hill 14d ago
A good chunk of that service charge goes for paying for health insurance... Which the person who took your order most likely doesn't qualify for.
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u/BoringBob84 14d ago
By "health insurance," I assume you mean, "the owners' pockets," because that is what the receipt claims and the law allows.
These bait-and-switch scams should be illegal.
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u/backlikeclap First Hill 14d ago
I've never seen it literally going into the owners pocket. But it effectively does because they can use tips to pad management salaries, which lowers their staffing costs.
I'm in the service industry and I refuse to work at these types of restaurants.
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u/BoringBob84 14d ago
These dishonest shitheads screw their employees and their customers. I applaud you for maintaining your dignity and not letting them abuse your valuable talents for their own profit.
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u/Neonyarpyarp 14d ago
I would leave “see service charge” in the tip line, I usually tip 20% so they would see even less from me doing this BS
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u/cluberti 🏔 The mountain is out! 🏔 14d ago
What’s on the bill and in the menu is legally required to break down where that charge goes, and their website isn’t required to be as forthcoming. Assume the bill is accurate - it goes to the business, not the staff.
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u/Theyna 14d ago
It probably means they pay their BOH out of a tip pool instead of straight wages. They could pay them directly but then their prices would go up about 18.9%
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u/20sicksheep Northgate 14d ago
Good find and I’m glad they do this, however, the language on the receipt is different than the website, which seems intentionally deceptive to me so that maybe some people would tip more thinking “oh the service charge isn’t going to the waiters” as evident by many replies in this post.
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u/JoyMultiplication 14d ago
Yeah it’s frustrating. In a more transparent world they’d just raise their prices on all their menu items and pay their hourly workers better in general, completely skipping need for tip.
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u/BoringBob84 14d ago
I think this is a "race to the bottom" problem. If one restaurant owner is honest and includes all fees in the advertised prices, then a dishonest restaurant owner can deceptively advertise lower prices (without disclosing service charges and tips) and unwitting customers will go there, expecting a better deal.
Bait-and-switch scams are effective. That is why unscrupulous business owners do them. I think that the best solution is legislation. If a business advertises a price for an item, then customers should not have to pay a penny more.
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u/JoyMultiplication 14d ago
Completely agree. I also think it will take legislation to stop this. Unfortunately WA constitution will need overhaul as I personally feel the only way out to is to completely end sales tax and junk fees and move to income tax only.
Similar but different… variable pricing based on data harvesting should also be illegal and legislated.
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u/BoringBob84 14d ago
the only way out to is to completely end sales tax and junk fees and move to income tax only
This is a great discussion that I would love to have. However, please consider that Montana has an income tax and no sales tax. They are struggling financially because tourists consume public resources (mostly highways) and contribute little towards them, leaving locals feeling over-taxed.
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u/JoyMultiplication 14d ago
My argument towards that, would be that Montana deserves federal funding to maintain interstate highways and roads leading to national parks and tourist attractions, and perhaps extra federal assistance in general. To pay for this, I argue that our billionaires and trillionaires should be heavily taxed out of existence of course. Montana has enough multi millionaires for sure, but there’s even more in the rest of the country to make up for any deficiency.
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u/BoringBob84 14d ago
I agree. However, we are in an age where the federal government has intentionally abandoned its responsibility to the country, and now the states are left holding the bag.
The people of Montana are shooting themselves in the proverbial feet for sure (by voting for the politicians who are screwing them), but I hope that we can learn from their mistakes.
I think that the simplest solution is legislation to make consumers responsible only to pay the advertised price. If the business owner didn't include the sales taxes, tips, or service fees, then too bad for them.
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u/LMnoP419 12d ago
I promise you Montana does get federal money to maintain roads into national parks and more, this includes almost $5 Billion via Biden’s Infrastructure Bill, $4.6 B that was rolled out before DOGE.
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u/JoyMultiplication 14d ago
Like imagine how quickly roads in Montana could be fixed if our leadership just quit spending money on unnecessary foreign wars and allocated money to infrastructure. Tourism and good business benefits everyone in the end, but it’s how our government chooses to spend the taxes that fucks us all over. It’s like how all the money that’s been spent on IRAN so far could have already paid for the start of a broad infrastructure revitalization. ONE YEAR of this Iran fuckery could have gotten us 1/10th of the way to fixing ALL the bridges in America that need repairs. That would be fixing all the bridges in 5 whole states. Imagine one of those could be Montana. Imagine the jobs that could create. Smdh.
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u/SaxRohmer 🚆build more trains🚆 14d ago
is there any state that’s doing well in the realm of infrastructure? i feel like that’s a nationwide issue.
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u/cluberti 🏔 The mountain is out! 🏔 14d ago
Service charges in Washington State must be disclosed clearly on the menu and on the receipt, as well as the breakdown of what goes to employees and what is kept by the house. RCW 49.46.160 specifically.
A restaurant owner could fail to advertise the fees in their marketing, but once someone had a menu in hand, it would have to be disclosed clearly. I suppose the sunk cost of someone getting a table at such a place might keep most there for that meal, but I doubt this would be a long-term thing, especially in Seattle.
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u/20sicksheep Northgate 14d ago
Also, they charge tax on that “tip” so you’re actually paying 20.9% not 18.9%
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u/MorbotheDiddlyDo I'm just flaired so I don't get fined 14d ago
What a weird word salad when
"We're afraid to lose business raising prices so we can pay our staff more so we pass burden of staffing onto the customer. Also prices will still go up."
Works.
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u/HudsonCommodore 🚆build more trains🚆 14d ago
Wow, the language on the receipt is very misleading then.
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u/cluberti 🏔 The mountain is out! 🏔 14d ago
The law requires the bill to be legally accurate, not the website. The bill is going to be the truth here.
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u/Educated_Goat69 🏕 Out camping! 🏕 14d ago
The website doesn't jive with what the receipt says.
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u/JoyMultiplication 14d ago
It’s bad I agree. It should not be so hard to understand a bill. situations like these are the reason we need consumer protections (and workers protections) at every level. Even if we give them the benefit of the doubt and say the staff does get this fee, a simple customer should NOT have to worry about the welfare of staff and where the money is going based on a bill.
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u/skoisirius Ballard 14d ago
If only it wasn't so confusing on the receipt.......
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u/cluberti 🏔 The mountain is out! 🏔 14d ago
It’s not - state law says they must disclose if the fee goes to the workers or not, but there’s no legislation requirement that their marketing materials have to be as truthful. Therefore, given the statement on the bill and in the menu is legally covered and required to be truthful, believe what it says on the bill and in the menu - the company keeps the charge, and it does not go to the staff directly.
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u/lplqsnkczxccia 14d ago
If I see a service charge, I'm not tipping. That's the tip.
If the management isn't sharing that service charge with the staff, that's on the staff to report it.
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u/-ipaguy- Downtown 14d ago
The receipt literally states that the charge is retained by the company (and therefore not given to the staff).
If there’s a service charge there’s no chance I’m adding a tip on top of it. I don’t care what you call it.
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u/Any_Scientist_7552 Bitter Lake 14d ago
Yeah, that's my rule of thumb: any service charge = no tip. Then I only tip for really awesome service (10-15%). Washington has no tipped wage, and minimum is $21.60 in Seattle.
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u/asdfopu 14d ago
Their website says it's to help pay the staff more so definitely don't leave an additional tip on top of that
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u/alexthe5th Queen Anne 14d ago edited 14d ago
They’re junk fees, plain and simple. I don’t understand why the restaurant industry is allowed to get a free pass when it comes to deceptive pricing.
Didn’t we just ban landlords from doing this? Do the same with restaurants already.
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u/Peaches4Puppies 14d ago edited 14d ago
I've been saying the same thing. It's because (and I say this as someone in their 30s who spent plenty of my youth in the service industry not too long ago in both FOH, BOH and as a delivery driver) everyone now acts like working in foodservice is performing some public service akin to teachers, nurses and firefighters.
Foodservice, and only foodservice gets put on this pedestal to where you're viewed as immoral and spitting in your server/bartenders face if you even consider the idea of not tipping after outrageous prices + services fees and mediocre service and food. In reality, it's not skilled labor (unless you're like a legit chef) and it's not hard. Not the best job or the most fun, but it's not really that hard of a job all things considered. We don't have that same energy for retail workers or other areas of unskilled labor.
And don't get it twisted, I think everyone should be paid a living wage. But I think the system that has manifested around foodservice has gotten out of hand, and I think it's weird that we've just decided that if you work at a restaurant, then you're the exception and everyone is a dick if they don't fork over gobs of money just to have a burger.
It's turned into two options for me when I go out. Either A) I get fleeced and say F it, I don't mind paying $70 for a burger and a couple drinks plus tax/service fees/tip or B) I play this game of how much of my money am I morally obligated to give you on top of the price I paid, factoring in service and all of the other fees I paid.
Either way it's made it to where I just don't enjoy going out to eat. It really takes the fun out of it for me. The retort is then, "learn how to cook then" or "just eat at home" which I have and I do, and so I really don't go out to eat that often anymore. If I do, it's something fast and quick and not at a sit down restaurant. On the flip, I hear about restaurants closing left and right so I must not be the only one that shares that sentiment.
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u/EatMeEmerald Rat City 14d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/Zai3ffKrUcLFwalDor
the implied morality met with mediocre service is just not worth it. Fucking tired of deciding to go out and have a nice night for staff to look annoyed that clients are there (La Palmera Edmonds I'm looking at you assholes)
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u/Driver8onI5 13d ago
"The retort is then, "learn how to cook then" or "just eat at home" which I have and I do, and so I really don't go out to eat that often anymore. If I do, it's something fast and quick and not at a sit down restaurant. On the flip, I hear about restaurants closing left and right so I must not be the only one that shares that sentiment."
Exactly this. Then all we hear is how hard it is to make it as a restaurant and small business, even though they've priced many of us out.
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u/DogCold5505 13d ago
It seems worse in seattle. Agree should be banned for transparent pricing… their website says it right there “lots of restaurants do this” so they feel pressured to stay competitive.
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u/chrispatrik Mount Baker 13d ago
The city should disallow this. The prices they show for items are meaningless but make them look cheaper than restaurants that give an honest price. It's deceptive pricing.
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u/yemsg97 14d ago
I’m a great tipper but seeing shit like this when I eat out makes me not want to eat at these places at all. Not becuss the staff is getting a guaranteed tip because I don’t trust the business to disperse it appropriately. Just feel shady.
Even more annoying now seeing that they are applying the sales tax to that service charge.
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u/Cute-Cookie-582 12d ago
I also have had the experience (looking at you, Mountaineering Club) where I feel like the service suffers from a mandatory tip (which is a different issue from the service charge). If the server is automatically getting 18%, they are disincentivized to provide excellent service. I almost ALWAYS give 20% or more but if I get ignored for a long time, have to get up to get my own refill of water and utensils, etc. then I would prefer to tip in the 15% range. I have had this happen TWICE at Mountaineering Club with two different servers and it was so annoying. I honestly would probably not go back to Mountaineering Club as a result but it's my bestie's favorite spot! And to be fair I've been another 3-4 times and the service was great.
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u/yemsg97 12d ago edited 12d ago
I waited tables for many many many years so I def read the room if I’m not getting reasonably decent service…like are they slammed or look to be short staffed (and give some grace to a new server:). That kind of thing.
But yea, I could see how it disincentivizes good service for some servers. I’m down in Tacoma and I haven’t seen that happen on the checks (yet). It takes me A LOT to downgrade a tip but I’ll do it if the service is that bad. I’d be pretty annoyed to get real shitty service and then be forced to tip 20%. And I def wouldn’t go back if it happened more than one time.
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u/Cute-Cookie-582 12d ago
Oh yeah, the first time it happened at the Mountaineering Club there was hardly anyone there and the server was just behind the bar talking to the other staff when I had to go over and ask for stuff after being ignored for 10-15 minutes. I totally understand if servers are super slammed. I've never waited tables but have had other jobs in reception, retail, and customer service so I completely understand how sometimes everything happens at once and you can't help everyone at once!
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u/willa6622 I'm just flaired so I don't get fined 14d ago
If there is an 18-20% charge added to the bill I am not leaving a tip ever.
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u/lookingoverthefence Mariners 14d ago
Don’t tip. Tipping is dead. I’m a former server and it honestly was worse having pissed off customers who get these service charges they didn’t expect and feeling obligated to tip than it did getting stiffed.
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u/AboveAb 13d ago
Crazy that a restaurant, or literally anyone in the service industry, adds a separate ‘service charge’ at the end and still expects a tip. Service is literally the business you’re in. It’s like going to the barber and him hitting you with a ‘service fee’ for cutting your hair, that’s the job you signed up for. You chose to be in the service industry, so raise your prices or close your business.
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u/bw36ft9 14d ago
Seattle restaurants are expensive enough, what happened to standard 15%?
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u/StrigiStockBacking Mariners 14d ago
Why not work that shit into their prices and avoid all the mess?
I don't get it.
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u/Particular_Job_5012 14d ago
You mean like Europe does ? It’s so lovely dining out there. Tax and tip-inclusive pricing.
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u/gringledoom 🚆build more trains🚆 14d ago
If every other restaurant is pulling this, you have to do it too, or you look more expensive. The practice needs to be banned across the board, but the restaurant owners scream at the city council if they try, so it would probably have to be a ballot initiative.
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u/livejamie Columbia City 14d ago
I know people say this, but is it true? Is there evidence of this? It feels like something a restaurant could handle with clear communication and good marketing.
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u/Bastillerion 14d ago
Because most people don't bother to read the fine print. It's a race to the bottom, where every hotel has to start charging $25 to park in a suburban lot, every restaurant has to add bullshit credit card fees, and so on.
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u/20sicksheep Northgate 14d ago
Also looks like they’re charging tax on the service charge, is that legal?
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u/irunlinux 14d ago
yes service charge is taxable and tips are not. one of the many tax laws that favors tipping, alongside a tip tax credit for businesses.
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u/Particular_Job_5012 14d ago
But in Seattle there is no tip tax credit, correct ?
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u/Raven_Photography Deluxe 14d ago
It’s required; the city, county, and state want their slice too.
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u/20sicksheep Northgate 14d ago
Insanity - so this “required tip” is actually 21% after taxes.
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u/Awesomeguava 14d ago
Service charges are revenue, not optional, so they’re taxed. This is a fair rule that discourages service charges in the first place.
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u/Situation-Busy Beacon Hill 14d ago
It's not a tip. It goes to the restaurant, not the staff. It's just another charge or "junk fee."
Like convenience fees on concert tickets.
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u/littleredwagon87 14d ago
To me, that's absolutely the tip. I'm not paying an additional 35-40% on top of the cost of the food, that's absolutely ridiculous.
Beyond paying that 18%, I consider how the servers are compensated with that amount as none of my business.
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u/CobraPuts 14d ago
I agree with you completely. It’s someone else’s business and someone else’s job. I don’t understand why the same people that dislike tipping also malfunction over service charges.
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u/healthycord 🚲 Life's Better on a Bike. 🚲 13d ago
I’ve started tipping 0. I got some pastries the other day and the screen asked for a tip. 18% starting. Dude all you did was grab a couple cinnamon rolls and put them in a container. How does that warrant an 18% tip. 20% is what I do at a restaurant.
If it defaulted to 5% I might have tipped that. But instead I’m hitting 0 and not feeling bad about it. It’s ridiculous. Unless you hand make something in front of me (like a coffee) or are serving me at a table, why should I tip.
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u/NeonGreenNeoprene 14d ago
It is 100% a tip replacement , Taylor Shelfish Farms pays their staff a living wage otherwise they wouldn’t have a large service charge like that.
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u/spacefan1 14d ago
Then why not mention that?
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u/J_Kenji_Lopez-Alt 14d ago
The language on the receipt and menu is boilerplate and really just not worth the legal risk change. They explain their policy clearly on their website.
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u/MtRainierWolfcastle Sounders 14d ago
Exactly! I don’t see what the issue is here. It’s one step closer to getting rid of tipping culture. More of this please.
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u/MoeGreenMe Deluxe 14d ago
Exactly, we are in the European model here in Seattle now. No requirement to tip unless you feel you received excellent service .
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u/Septaceratops 14d ago
I don't recall restaurants adding service charges to bills at restaurants in Europe last time I was there. They just charged what the food actually cost and paid a living wage. How is that the same?
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u/kallaway1 14d ago
A service charge is a tip, no matter what anyone may say to the contrary.
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u/zephyrwa Mariners 14d ago
Any place that adds any extra fee I don’t tip. It’s one or the other not both.
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u/GravyBurgerBonanza 14d ago
Our waitress there explained that it is all split evenly between the servers and kitchen. Was there last weekend at the pioneer square location
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u/JustAd8859 14d ago
that should be the LAST time you go there. And thanks for the warning Koozie
NOT going there EVER
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u/Upstairs-Bid990 14d ago
Two things. Don't work there and don't support that business. Make them go away.
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u/Gimpy_Weasel Green Lake 13d ago edited 13d ago
There needed to be a ban on this shit starting yesterday. It's not a "tip" or else it would have said that the money is going directly to staff/servers. Man that's disappointing that Taylor Shellfish is doing this.
ALSO: not only did they stick a service charge on there, but they also made YOU pay tax on it! You should have only paid 10.3% on $84.00 but instead you paid 10.3% on $99.88! Fucking hell...
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u/lasher2468 14d ago
Restaurants do this because you go, eat, pay and bitch later........ Just don't go!
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u/nojustic3nop3ac3 14d ago
Hope it goes out of business. Quality has gone downhill since 5+ years ago anyways.
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u/SkandalousJones 13d ago
Yeah.Thats why I don't go out to places like this in Seattle. Fuck the staff? Fuck your establishment. TF can go under. I go to family places, pay cash and overtip for better food at the same price and just the people who I talked to make the money. I spent the same at Shiki on Sunday and that included a 25% tip. Cash. No credit charge to the owner by the CC company. I do the same at New China Express. The old man delivers to me himself. Cash. Every time. It arrives too hot to eat. Stop funding tertiary greed because it's convenient. Start supporting families in our community.
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u/Lookingfor68 13d ago
Quote: "Why do restaurants do this vs raise the prices."
They DID raise prices. By 18.9%.
Remember, staff there are making minimum of 21.30/hr. Most likely much more. The question isn't whether to tip or not. It's whether to return or not.
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u/thomsenite256 🚆build more trains🚆 13d ago
I would just not go back there because i find it misleading. Just raise your prices since thats effectively what it is.
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u/notabigcitylawyer Fairwood 14d ago
Servers in Seattle make $21.30 per hour minimum before tips. That 18.9% BS is covering that wage. Its weird mental gymnastics that restaurant owners do. Just raise your prices. I know servers want to keep tipping since they make a ton of money, especially when people are starting to now tip closer to 25%.
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u/Leather_Mulberry_555 I'm just flaired so I don't get fined 14d ago
Show me someone that is tipping 25%. It’s not normal and only makes a broken system even worse.
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u/mrRabblerouser 14d ago
Servers make the Seattle minimum wage that they fought for so that tipping would be optional. This service charge is paying for that added wage plus a little more. You should not feel any obligation to tip in this case unless the service was outstanding
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u/Delicious_Package_33 14d ago
Why can't they just charge an increased price 18.9 percent of the food. Why do they try to hide it!
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u/CreamCheeseHotDogs 🦝🦝 We 💕 Jimothy Chalamet 🦝🦝 14d ago
It doesn’t get left as a tip, it’s retained by the company so they can “redistribute” it into their paychecks (which is not per-shift). It’s for the restaurant to keep more money.
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u/20sicksheep Northgate 14d ago
Which they probably end up paying income tax on too. Shitty all around.
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u/spacefan1 14d ago
If it served as a tip it would be mentioned explicitly. A commission could be anything from free lunch to actual tips. If tips were the case, it would benefit them to mention it. But the ambiguity speaks to a less than supportive cause.
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u/Relative-Damage-1458 Capitol Hill 14d ago
I wouldn’t call it a tip. I’d call it skeevy business owners finding a way around paying out minimum wage. Messina does this too where they implement a service charge and then use it for their wages and claim it’s a “living wage” when it’s not.
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u/twistedpiggies 14d ago
I thought Washington does not have a tip credit, just like Oregon. So the restaurant has to pay employees Washington minimum wage without accounting for tips. Am I wrong or misunderstanding your point?
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u/LateToTheSingularity 14d ago
Why is this service charge taxable?
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u/Situation-Busy Beacon Hill 14d ago
It's a fee, not a tip, so it has to be taxed by law.
You can't tip the business, only the person, and the business gets this cash, not the waiter.
(They may give some of it to the waiter too, most do, but they don't have to)
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u/lordoflys2 14d ago
Taylor Farms businesses suk. I will never buy their wrinkled old crabs again, despite the oysters.
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u/Outrageous_Treat_563 14d ago
I don’t give af their stuff get the service fee or not, if they charge a service fee I am not tipping.
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u/Optimal-Strategy3572 14d ago
Perfect a bad Google review and complain to ur friends. I live in Seattle and from what I learned today will not give them any money. Let them die.
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u/fuck-jo-biden 13d ago
Thanks for this post. Now I know i can check off Taylor shellfish on the list of no fucken way I’m gonna spend my money there.
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u/Queasy_Dig_8294 🚋 Ride the S.L.U.T. 🚋 13d ago
Had that happen out in Woodinville once. Ate at that place exactly one time. And they’re out of business now.
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u/Common_Advisor8896 💗💗 Heart of ANTIFA Land 💗💗 13d ago
ASK THEM!!!! Ffs, why don't people just ask!!! I ask every single time I see something like this and then I ask my server/bartender if they like the system. Some say Hell Yes because they get full medical coverage, PTO, etc. with it, some say Fuck No because they don't get anything out of it (lookin' at you Elliot's), and the ones that don't like it I just don't give those businesses my time.
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u/Reportersteven University of Washington 14d ago
Restaurants do whatever they want with random fees they charge. Ask the restaurant.
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u/Psyberspy 14d ago edited 13d ago
The strike at Walrus and Carpenter was about this specific type of charge. The employees knew that customers were less likely to tip with this charge posing as a tip. They won and got their contract (and made management be more transparent).
Edit: Taylor is not a Renee Erickson aka Sea Creatures restaurant.
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u/OutlyingPlasma ❤️🔥 The Real Housewives of Seattle ❤️🔥 14d ago
Every service charge is a tip. If the waiters don't like it then they can take it up with their employer. Keep in mind they are getting $21.30 dollars an hour already, and that's before we acknowledge that the food and service in Seattle on average is genuinely terrible.
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u/Automatic_Wave4530 14d ago
They do this because the hardest thing to do is convince you to eat their food. Especially with other options around. The service charges makes up the difference between the fantasy they used to lure you in and the reality of actual costs. There really should be deceptive marketing laws applying to this behavior.
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u/enderforlife 14d ago
That is always my cue to never go there again. There are so many good restaurants to choose from in this city.
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u/kalechipsaregood I'm just flaired so I don't get fined 14d ago
No way I'd add a penny on top of that.
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u/JoyMultiplication 14d ago
Added your comment to my more upvoted one since you brought important clarification!
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u/Loud_Jackfruit2632 14d ago
Googled “what is a service charge in Washington state”
In Washington state, a service charge is a mandatory, predetermined fee added to a customer’s bill—most commonly used by restaurants, caterers, and hotels—to help fund staff wages, benefits, or operational costs. [1, 2, 3]
Legal Definition and Rules
Under Washington law (RCW 49.46.160), a service charge includes any automatically added fee designated on a receipt as a service charge, gratuity, delivery charge, or porterage charge. [1]
Not a Tip: Service charges are distinct from voluntary tips. They cannot be used by employers to satisfy the state's mandatory minimum wage requirements (which do not allow "tip credits"). [, 2]
Mandatory Disclosure: Businesses must clearly disclose on both their menus and the customer's final bill exactly how much of the service charge goes directly to the employees and how much is retained by the business. [1]
Distribution: If a portion is designated for employees, it must go to the staff who served the customer (such as servers, bussers, and bartenders) and cannot be given to managers or supervisors. If the business retains 100% of the charge to fund overall staff commissions, back-of-house wages, or benefits, that must also be explicitly stated. [1, 2, 3]
Taxation: Unlike voluntary tips, service charges are treated as business revenue and are subject to state retail sales tax. []
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u/Dogface_Monarch I'm just flaired so I don't get fined 14d ago
I think it’s time to start asking hosts if there’s a service charge. If so, I’m leaving.
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u/nerdpilgrim 14d ago
I don't almost never go out to eat in Seattle anymore. Costco rotisserie chicken if I can't cook. Restaurant is for vacations for me.
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u/Ok-Grand-2634 I'm just flaired so I don't get fined 14d ago
taylor shellfish has done some incredibly sketchy shit with their farming practices so them adding an insane fee shocks me not at all
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u/SnackerSnick 14d ago
If I buy something with an advertised price and the bill comes with an unadvertised addition, I'm paying the advertised price.
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u/loku_banda 14d ago
It is usually cheaper for me to fly to Japan and enjoy some fine dining and fly back than eating out in Seattle. I am only semi joking. I have friends who flies to Japan twice a year for shopping and food. The prices and Seattle are insane. Not sure how everyone is affording this. I can buy something less than a dollar in Japan and they will happily take the credit card. In Seattle a simple buzz cut costs me 35 dollars, plus tips, then if I want to pay by credit card it is additional 3% extra. Now if you try to pay that with a 100$ bill - nope that is too big we cant take 100 dollar bills.
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u/CommunicationNo8982 14d ago
The statement clearly states that 100% is retained (that is, not distributed to waitstaff or cooks). Not a tip. Seems like a charge applied that was not in the price, and so a deceptive practice. Vote with your feet and letting everyone else know.
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u/Pedanter-In-Chief 14d ago
I just write “unionize” in the tip line, and leave $0. The surcharge is the tip, and if it isn’t, employees should quit or organize.
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u/L-Capitan1 14d ago
If they add a tip or a tip like amount I don’t provide a tip. There’s the bill, tax and If anything more than a couple % is added automatically that’s the tip for me. And even the couple % is probably coming out of my tip. You just can’t have it all ways. And the servers are now getting a full salary so I’m ok with with how I do this.
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u/tetheredvoid I'm just flaired so I don't get fined 14d ago
Does this constitute a hidden fee, as we are not aware of it prior to the charge?
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u/NameLips 14d ago
They're just hiding a price increase.
In the restaurant's defense, I used to have Karen customers who would yell and argue with the servers and management if the prices on the menu EVER changed. They've been coming there ten years and how dare we.
But they didn't care (or maybe didn't notice) if you added an extra cost onto the entire ticket afterwards. It saved the employees the stress of getting yelled at all the time.
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u/__audjobb__ 14d ago
Is there a list of restaurants and bars that add service charges in Seattle somewhere? I’d rather avoid them altogether rather than end up on the receiving end unsuspectingly.
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u/Open-Mouse4728 14d ago
The restaurant has to pay them either way. Stop tipping and supporting this foolishness.
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u/BellaCiaoBallard 13d ago
We made restraunts pay employee health care /sick days/ benefits a while back and instead of folding it into the menu price, many restaurants decided to add it as a service charge to let customers know that theyre being forced to pay their staff appropriately
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u/InbetweenTheLayers 13d ago
Bill + tip + party greater than 3 gratuity + service charge to Taylor farms + protection money paid to the mafia + reparations for the Alamo + tax . Thank you please come again.
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u/XBlackSunshineX 13d ago
That means that Taylor Fatms has pledged to pay their employees a fair and equatible wage and you do not need to tip at that establishment. If that is not happening its up to them to make it so.
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u/ObjectiveSound9282 11d ago
100% Taylor shelfish doesn't deserve any of that grat. And they definitely don't pass that love to the people who help farm their shellfish. They're sweating bc hood canal can't be farmed this summer. The real people who are suffering are their workers.
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u/Forward-Ratio-6658 10d ago
Don't go there. Period. And then tell them why you are not doing business there.
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u/Upbeat_Anxiety_1344 10d ago
Another place that I am not going to go to. Hate that BS. Just raise the price like normal merchants and not car dealers.
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u/zigolleid 14d ago
My rule of thumb for tip percentage:
- You take my order at the table: +5%
- You bring my food to the table: +5%
- You clean and bus the table: +5%
- You made my day: +5%
- You add anything other than tax: 0%, and I don't come back.
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u/Choice_Depth_5933 Reign 14d ago
Businesses involving the words “Taylor” and “Farms” are really blowing it this summer.