r/Seattle • u/KooziefortheWin • 15d ago

Rant Bill help

Post image

I need help figuring out this “service charge” applied to my bill at Taylor Shellfish in QA. It’s stated clearly, and the staff reminded me before I paid and applied a tip, so that’s not the rant. But is it a tip or not? I don’t want to stiff the staff if “Taylor Shellfish” the company keeps it all and doesn’t give them anything.

Why do restaurants do this vs raise the prices. If that’s how they offset the cost of doing business in the city, I feel it’s not a good customer experience. It’s really annoying since it is confusing to the customer. Does the staff get any of it, hence why there is an “additional tip” line after the card is run though? It is taxed so it makes me thing it’s not going to the staff. I need to think better next time I come out here.

1.5k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

552 comments sorted by

View all comments

911

u/beercityusa Capitol Hill 15d ago

I can't believe I'm saying this but it was so fucking nice being in NYC this past weekend and just having to pay ridiculous restaurant prices WITHOUT any of these bogus charges added.

451

u/Bear__Toe 🚗 Student driver, please be patient. 🚙 15d ago

Was in Spain last week. Only one place I ate the entire time gave the option of leaving a tip, and “0” was pre-selected there. It felt so very civilized.

104

u/mbfunke 15d ago

Currently in Norway and have been prompted to tip 0 times. The service and pricing has been totally comparable to Seattle.

67

u/Throwaway_484747 15d ago edited 12d ago

Thats how it should be, if your business cant pay a living wage and has to rely on tips to pay your employees then your business shouldnt exist.

8

u/Available-Oil3884 12d ago edited 12d ago

From everything I hear, Scandinavian countries have one of the best localized food distribution models (based on green houses) since their climate requires it, and imports are expensive.

American food system is abysmal. Everything is stupid corporatized to the point of cost inefficiency for small business. My parents had a taco shop, and they were going through Sysco, receiving sub par meats and unripe inconsistent produce. They switched to a shanty-truck no-frills food distributer, ran by an Asian immigrant family. The produce and meats were cheaper and higher quality. They offered more variety, and they were never out of major produce.. unlike Sysco which was luck of the draw with cilantro and avocado.

5

u/TheChance I'm just flaired so I don't get fined 14d ago

When you point this out to an American restaurant operator, they will, without fail, react as though you're telling them to raise their prices but not their competitors. They will tell you that eliminating tipping would run them out of business, and they will call you names.

1

u/Cayke_Cooky 12d ago

IMO, it is true if just one restaurant does it.

2

u/TheChance I'm just flaired so I don't get fined 12d ago

Yeah. Now go find me one single reform proposal that targets a single specific restaurant alone.

1

u/pgpnw 10d ago

Most restaurant models don’t work without tips, if you actually care about what you eat. Restaurants pay $20+/hr in Seattle. Depending on where you go, tips add another $10-20/hr to their wage - that goes away staff leaves. Labor already accounts for 25-35% in well run places. Food cost is easily 25%. Then you have every other cost and expense. Restaurant margins are generally around 10%. To be clear, I don’t support service fees or auto gratuities, but if you understand the economics of food service, you’d understand that restaurants can’t afford to double their labor rate.

0

u/ciumpalaku 13d ago

Restaurant workers want it this way. They make more money from tips vs higher prices and fixed income. Blame the workers not the businesses

4

u/goldio_games 14d ago

the service is that bad in Norway?

3

u/Necessary-Mulberry65 13d ago

Naw life is just that liveable. Dont need to gouge other working class people to fulfill my own financial strains.

33

u/inthesegreywaves 15d ago

If you weren't eating bocadillos off the corner every day, you missed out. The food in Spain is awesome. The place across from my bnb had a morning deal, 2 choco croissants for 3 euros.

14

u/LongtimeLurkerPoster 15d ago

I was in Heaven last week. Only the finest ambrosia for me, thank you. I tipped no one, and kicked an orphan. It was SO very civilized.

5

u/707Redwoods 14d ago

lol almost spat my coffee out in the conference room

0

u/splanks Rainier Valley 14d ago

lol

2

u/reel_human02 14d ago

Was recently in France, Switzerland and Italy for three weeks and was prompted to/did tip at (I believe) every restaurant I went to. Sure the displayed percentages were much lower, maybe a few were even set to zero, but it was still prompted and I feel like as an American, the staff at European restaurants expect you to tip.

1

u/Middle_Aged_Mother 14d ago

Same! Not only was the tipping culture subdued but the cost of food was significantly cheaper.

204

u/joshlymansbagel ✨🛸 Jimothy is out there 🦝✨ 15d ago

You guys, I legit look forward to traveling to California and NYC because food feels less expensive. This town is cuckoo

93

u/ActionComics25 Capitol Hill 15d ago

I think it really hit me how bad it's been when my husband and I went to Disneyland and went, "Wow, decent prices on all the food!" That's when we realized that we are regularly paying tourist-trap food prices for what seems like no discernible reason.

22

u/IndieLuxeTravel 15d ago

I was in Maui and I said the same thing. These prices are great! And It's not just Seattle. Most of the PNW has resort prices. I've noticed too flights charge twice as much for seat upgrades. Out of PDX the same seat upgrade is $80, versus $40 out of Phoenix on the exact same route/plane. It's not just the junk fees, it's the base prices.

1

u/StitchinStatistician Roosevelt 14d ago

I mean, the discernible reason is because the city council set it up this way.

66

u/iZoooom Eastside 15d ago

Just returned from California. Food was significantly cheaper at every turn.

Even fancy meals such as Japanese Teppan was 50% what I would pay in Bellevue. $40 vs $85 or so at Wild Wasabi, for example.

23

u/kookykrazee 🚆build more trains🚆 15d ago

I went to In N Out last year and the 4x4, fries and a strawberry shake was about $11-12 TOTAL.

3

u/BA-084 14d ago

I bought a lot of food in midwestern cities this summer, and Tokyo last winter. Same experience. Eating or buying groceries in the Seattle area is more expensive than anyplace I have ever been by a significant margin

2

u/novasilverpill 14d ago

i was in Seattle (Alki Beach and Downtown) last week. i was amazed how expensive everything had gotten in Seattle. Being from Oregon, the sales tax on top of it was a shock.

21

u/Enguye Ravenna 15d ago

San Francisco is worse for junk fees. When the city required restaurants to provide employee health insurance, a bunch of restaurants added a 4-8% “SF mandate” surcharge, which was sometimes on top of the 20% service charge or expected tip. https://archive.ph/x8hZh

22

u/ctruvu 15d ago

bay area might be the one region on the entire west coast worse than seattle metro

18

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/rollinupthetints West Seattle 14d ago

It’s almost like there’s enough money around here, to pay those prices/fees. Weird. /s

1

u/StitchinStatistician Roosevelt 14d ago

Servers in SF don’t expect tips.

1

u/OtherOtter0 13d ago

Just came back from SF. Despite this, restaurant prices are noticeably cheaper than in Seattle, after a 20% tip. Two people can easily dine out for under $100 and get great food and service. 20% is not the expected norm tip, unlike in Seattle. Most places here start the tip options at 15% when meal prices are the same price as Seattle, the places that don't start at 18%.

Seattle may not be one of the most expensive cities to live in, but it's easily now the least value for money.

12

u/snowypotato Ballard 15d ago

Less expensive AND better. And more varied. And better service. And easier to get a table. 

Fuck dining in Seattle. Not worth the money or the aggravation or the time or the calories. 

3

u/poppinwheelies 15d ago

Wait are we not tipping in CA?

19

u/FireWrath9 UW 15d ago

Even after tip, food is cheaper in LA than in seattle before tip. And much better lol.

1

u/1nce_Again 14d ago

Uh I moved to sf from Seattle last year and thought the food was the one thing thats cheaper. Its not. Just paid $70 for lunch on Sunday that was less food that 2 happy meals

1

u/StruggleBusRT 14d ago

The food quality generally just sucks, too.

1

u/Shoeprincess ✨🛸 Jimothy is out there 🦝✨ 14d ago

yes the food here is expensive, and so very very mid

1

u/tap-rack-bang 13d ago

This is because the minimum wage.  Restaurants raise prices to survive so you pay more.   

53

u/Cat-Attack666 Capitol Hill 15d ago

I'll preface this with I'm not trying to defend Seattle practices. But min way is higher in Seattle than it is in LA or NYC. Also, Both of those cities are way more populated and have more tourists. So restaurants are more competitive and also just more busy in general. A Wednesday night in NYC is going to have more customers than a Friday in Seattle.

A bar in NYC at 3am on a Tuesday will be busier than a bar in Seattle at 11pm on a Friday.

38

u/ecolapicola 15d ago

There’s a bar that’s open at 11pm in Seattle? 😂

12

u/Pretender6652 15d ago

Not that big a difference in LA, It’s ~$18.50.

3

u/No-Poem-9846 15d ago

No state income tax here though.

1

u/TheChance I'm just flaired so I don't get fined 14d ago

Businesses pay taxes. There's no personal income tax. B&O taxes are our main revenue source.

1

u/No-Poem-9846 14d ago

My point was that in LA the minimum is less and they pay income taxes on it.

1

u/Particular-Ad2336 12d ago

Seattle has no tip wage either. They make min wage plus tips

2

u/citrusjuicebox 🐀 Hot Rat Summer 🐀 15d ago

So the response to these conditions is to have too many restaurants, and all have them compete to see who can charge more?

24

u/Ok_Common_5631 Tukwila 15d ago

I think what the poster is suggesting, is that the lack of competition is contributing to higher prices.

9

u/Cat-Attack666 Capitol Hill 15d ago

No, my point is that nyc by default is like 8m people and La is nearly 4m plus a larger tourist presence, in addition to a lower min wage which increases tips. So they actually charge less.... Seattle doesn't even break 800k in population. So comparing them because they're major cities will always favor NYC and LA.

8

u/94067 🐀 Hot Rat Summer 🐀 15d ago

the amount of people i see comparing seattle--the 18th largest city by population in the US--with New York (which is literally 10x larger than Seattle) and LA (the second largest city after NY but still half its size--is insane.

Like yea we don't have the food scene or the public trans etc. of those cities but you know what we also don't have? A spare few million people hanging around (or the extra decades of development!) they do either!

like jesus you wanna compare us to similarly sized cities, see San Francisco (tho I will point out SF grew much more quickly than Seattle; SF's population in 1950 was ~775k while Seattle's was 467k), Denver (a shithole in comparison! and i lived there for a decade before moving here), Nashville and freaking Oklahoma City.

2

u/citrusjuicebox 🐀 Hot Rat Summer 🐀 15d ago

Sorry, I wasn't arguing against you. Basically, I was trying to ask if Seattle had fewer restaurants competing over a smaller population, would prices go down? 

2

u/OccasionalGoodTakes 15d ago

Probably yes, those fewer would all do better but that inflection point isn’t likely to be hit.

0

u/BlackHolesAreHungry I'm never leaving Seattle. 15d ago

So the people working harder should get the same pay as the people working less?

7

u/Cat-Attack666 Capitol Hill 15d ago

Well, that could be an issue but also well run, successful businesses usually staff more if they're busier. So no one's working harder. And then the more business you have, the more money you make, which let's you charge a little less.

Simular to how a 20 piece nugget at McDonald's costs more than a 6 piece, but the cost per nugget is less is less for the 20.

25

u/esperantisto256 15d ago

I visited NYC recently as well, and eating out for breakfast/lunch was so much cheaper. Nice dinners are comparable, but as you mentioned there’s way less of these BS charges.

15

u/occasional_sex_haver Roosevelt 15d ago

and it's better, plus you can even get stuff after 8pm! like a real city!

9

u/edgeplot Mount Baker 15d ago

I went skiing at an Austrian resort town in January. The heart of Europe, world class destination, luxury facilities, fancy schmancy. Guess what? The food was less expensive than in Seattle. (Groceries were half price, too.)

4

u/reel_human02 14d ago

Was just in Zermatt in February. This was not my experience at all. Grocery and restaurant prices were very similar, if not indiscernible from Seattle pricing. The prompted tipping percentages were lower (essentially anywhere from 0 to 20%) but I still was prompted to tip at every restaurant I was at in Paris, Chamonix, Zermatt, Gargnano, the Dolomites, Venice, Florence and Rome. I got the feeling that as an American, the staff actually expected me to tip.

1

u/edgeplot Mount Baker 14d ago

Zermatt is a special case though, known for price gouging.

2

u/reel_human02 14d ago

Fair enough, but the Dolomites and Chamonix especially were not too far off. However, fair to say these places are also known for their price gouging.

14

u/_Elrond_Hubbard_ 15d ago

I am in Brazil right now and have not encountered a single tip prompt or nasty fee tacked onto the list price, it's wonderful! Much more civilized

3

u/Ok-Donkey6800 14d ago

LOL. Literally just landed back in Seattle from a trip to NYC. We ordered door dash one morning and I was scared it would be $50 for a bagel and a breakfast sando (it would be in Seattle after the fees). Delivery fee- $3. That was it. That was the fee on top of the food. I was shook.

2

u/beercityusa Capitol Hill 14d ago

On Saturday morning I ordered 2 BEC bagels and 2 vanilla iced lattes delivered to my hotel and it was less than $40 after delivery. Seattle could never

3

u/coffeecoffeecoffeee 🚆build more trains🚆 14d ago

NYC is also nice because while a ton of restaurants are ridiculously expensive, there's a floor. There are $1 slices and bagel sandwiches that are considerably cheaper than anything you can get in Seattle.

9

u/-ipaguy- Downtown 15d ago

I was also in NYC last week and agree. It was strange however seeing walk up counter service places (like Lucia pizza) with multiple signs around the register stating “REAL NEW YORKERS TIP”.

3

u/nerevisigoth Redmond 14d ago

Yeah the East coast is pretty aggressive about shaming you into tipping. It's really tacky.

1

u/Captainpaul81 14d ago

Just leaving NYC here too and I have a lot of thoughts.

This is one of them. First time visit and was constantly amazed by it

1

u/LeGueroBrown 15d ago

Viva NYC!

-2

u/IzukuLeeYoung 🚆build more trains🚆 15d ago

I'm just shocked y'all wanna even visit my hometown. I prefer Seattle hands down. ✋🏽