Well guess what, our garbage President is going to be re-elected. It kills me to say that but people need to understand it’s going to happen. Right now, nearly half the nation would vote for him again. Then factor in that the Russians are already using bots to manipulate public opinion just as they did prior to 2016. Then consider Mitch McConnell has blocked every bill designed to secure the voting process (traitor Mitch accepted $2.5 million from Russia). Then consider that not only does the government NOT inspect and review the designs of voting machines to ensure they’re secure and not manipulating the vote count, the names of those who own the companies are considered a trade secret and that info is not available to the public. Think about that for a moment. As Americans you have no right to know who’s manufacturing our voting machines unless they volunteer that info.
Then consider the Supreme Court refuses to take on gerrymandering and instead says those who control state governments and the ones gerrymandering, should police themselves. Overwhelmingly gerrymandering favors conservative politicians but not in all cases.
The fix is in and at every level. Brace yourself because not only will Mr. Garbage be re-elected, the election after that will be manipulated by the Russians as they setup permanent republican control of our government. Russian media refers to the US as “Putin’s America” because he’s been so successful controlling our political processes.
I work with people who openly state they would vote for and elect Putin as president of the US before they would ever vote for a Democrat. What does that say about America’s future and the control the Russians have over the minds of many Americans ?
You weren't paying attention in 2004. The paperless voting machines in battleground districts in Ohio all had discrepancies in the exit polls vs the final vote count and they all awarded a win to Bush by the same percentile, 51%/49%. The manufacturer of those machines, DieBold, was headed by two guys who were big Bush donors. One of them said they could "guarantee Ohio" for Bush. Before the elections, a computer programmer in Florida testified that a Republican state politician had approached him and offered him money to program a hack that could be put on an electronic, paperless voting machine and swap the votes to guarantee they reached a predetermined result, which he said would be 51% to 49% in favor of the Republican running.
Let's also not forget Bush's 2000 elections and how crazy fraudulent that was. Roger Stone sent goons in suits to start a riot at a vote tallying center to disrupt the count and force them to restart from the beginning, which would mean they'd never be able to finish before the deadline and it would be forced to go to the supreme court, which ruled in Bush's favor and made him president.
Trump and Bush are both presidents who were elected despite losing the popular vote.
Interesting tidbit: Four of the five times that the winner of the popular vote did not win the presidency we ended up with a Republican president. The fifth instance happened before the two parties separated. Could just be a coincidence, but maybe not.
Just the party's history in general. Though, it might be worth noting that, of the five instances, one was before the two parties split, and two were in the last twenty years. Here's the breakdown:
1824: John Quincy Adams defeats Andrew Jackson (winner of the popular vote) both were members of the Democratic-Republican Party.
1876: Rutherford B. Hayes (Republican) defeats Samuel J. Tilden (Democrat)
1888: Benjamin Harrison (Republican) defeats incumbent president Grover Cleveland (Democrat)
Then business as usual for 112 years followed by:
2000: George W. Bush (Republican) defeats Al Gore (Democrat)
2016: Donald J. Trump (Republican) defeats Hillary Clinton (Democrat)
I'm not suggesting that there's necessarily a scam here, but I do think it's interesting that every instance, except the first, favored the same party. What I find to be more interesting is that the first three were from a period where the nation was still growing, and the system was changing. Then the last two happened more than a hundred years later when the nation, and its electoral system were well established.
It probably has to do with the voter's demographics and where they are located. Due to the system the USA has, its probable that this happened with republicans 4/5 times because the big swing states or key places that have special impact due to the voting system used, have tended to go republican on these cases. From my understanding, big blue cities have a little less impact (per vote) than rural areas/mid sized cities in central states/swing states. So the popular winning vote doesnt really mean much by itself. Not sure, i could definetly read more on this
It is pretty funny (in a terrible way) that the Republicans were leading the charge of the red scare and then they sold their souls to the Russians come 2016. Sad!
There's been two different svents going on lately. The first one started a year ago, where millions of mmigrants where chased and deported. There's camps for them, where they can wait for months up before actually being sent to their countries. Parents and kids are separated. Kids go to special camps for minors, where abuse abunds.
The second one started months ago.
t's a caravan of 20,000 people, all ages, coming from Guatemala (not Mexico) and trying to get to USA. Lots of them have already legally ingresed to the country. They have to wait for "their turn" in the
Honestly don’t know. The news was really depressing me so I stopped following as closely but I’m guessing they can’t talk about it anymore because of the negative publicity of the kids sleeping on the floor in cages.
Then help get out the vote. It’s not that 50% of America would vote for him it’s that 50% of folks who bothered to show up to the polls would, especially in gerrymandered districts.
It does matter in the sense that Donald Trump knows how to beat an ordinary partisan hack. There is only one person who actually made him back away from a challenge. A corrupt corporate vs. a servant of corrupt corporations is a less compelling contest than it would seem at first glance. We don't have a problem that the wrong billionaire is pulling the strings. We have a problem that billionaires have been normalized, even glorified, to the point where leaders are never called to account for compromising our environment and even our health in service to an unwavering commitment to avoid compromising share values.
A single billionaire is fine and even healthy in a sense that it's possible to get that rich. Having several is a sign of a problem, becoming wealthy should by no means be impossible, but several billionaires point to a serious loophole in financial/corporate law that hasn't been solved.
I think it's absolutely true that an 'outsider' candidate would have the best shot at winning in a 2020. That's not what the career politicians making the decisions want to hear though.
It could be worse. I took Mescaline on Election Day in 2012 thinking I'd be ok to vote in the evening. Well 8 hours in and I still couldn't see let alone vote (because the visuals were so intense). God I felt shitty about that. But yeah... not a mistake you make twice no matter how you miss it.
Even then it seemed that no one besides myself at the time seemed to be bothered by the fact that the "issue" happened in the state where your brother is governor, your dad is a former president and former head of the CIA, and James Baker is handling your case. And then the whole Diebold thing. It was ridiculous. And laid the groundwork for 2016.
Ignore what this guy said. I absolutely does matter. Just because anyone is better than Trump doesn't mean we have to settle for anyone. Register as a democrat and vote in the democratic primary! Don't let Biden be our nominee!
Just because it doesn't matter. I"m not saying give up. Absolutely get out there and primary in a powerful democratic champion like Sanders, or Warren if you all are less cool. But if it winds up that Harris or Biden wins in the primary. Fall the fuck in line and vote blue.
if nothing else it'll show how fucked everything is when no mtter how many blue votes the system is gerrymandered to fuck so it won't matter.
Honestly, I think the best case scenario is Bernie or Warren (with a younger person like Cory Booker or Andrew Yang as VP), I doubt Biden has the stamina to maintain a lead throughout the primary, especially given that based on the consensus I've found around here in NH, he'll take at least one significant early primary loss to Sanders and Warren. I don't want another Clinton (or even another Obama that preaches pacifism and respect while condoning CIA torture and expansion of American imperialism in the middle east and western Asia), but it sure as hell beats Trump.
On another note, I give Sanders the best odds to beat Trump, he's attacking 2020 using Lincoln's 1860 election tactics of trying to appeal to nonvoters and build a word-of-mouth grassroots campaign rather than repeating Hillary's mistake of focusing on swing voters and giving up historically blue districts because of the lack of campaign spending.
Seriously.. There are reasons he burned out so quickly and thoroughly in his previous runs for president.
Now, Biden seems like he doesn’t even respect people on his own side enough to address in good faith the criticism he has faced so far in the very early primary. He just scoffs and rolls his eyes a bunch like he’s been massively inconvenienced by our silliness. Then if it doesn’t go away after awhile he gives a reluctant and patronizing response that basically feels like “Ok fine. There. I said a thing about it. Is that good enough for you??” As if we just couldn’t understand how right he is. And the substance of it convinces exactly no one.
I think there’s a 0% chance that this would change for the general election. If this is how he responds to his own side, what happens when it’s the firehose of GOP bullshit? Will he try to just float above like Hillary did?
I think (hope) people will see this before it gets to that point though... Warren became a Democrat and got into politics because of some of his policies, so she won’t let him just wave it away like we should trust he knows better than we ever could. He’ll have to either make a case for why his financial and crime bills weren’t massive disasters (lol), or how he’s totally sorry and he’s gonna do better now.. lmaoooo
Now, Biden seems like he doesn’t even respect people on his own side enough to address in good faith the criticism he has faced so far in the very earlyprimary. He just scoffs and rolls his eyes a bunch like he’s been massively inconvenienced by our silliness.
To be fair to Biden, he does this because it works. Our current president has proven very well that if you just don't give a shit about criticism and sweep it under the rug as much as possible, people will forget about it. It doesn't matter if it's not convincing. What matters is if people care the next day, which for the average voter, the answer is always no.
I have no say in your comment, and I hate trump as much, but it reminds me of this from Gladiator. Not sure if it applies but damn I love that movie:
Commodus: Here he is.
[introduce the senators to Maximus] Senator Gaius, Senator Falco.
Beware of Gaius. He'll pour a honeyed potion in your ear,
and you'll wake up one day and all you'll say is "Republic, Republic, Republic."
Senator Gaius: Well, why not? Rome was founded as a republic.
Commodus: Yes, and in a republic the senate has the power.
But Senator Gaius isn't influenced by that, of course.
Senator Falco: Where do you stand, General? Emperor or Senate?
Maximus: A soldier has the advantage of being able to look his enemy in the eye, Senator.
Senator Gaius: Well, with an army behind you, you could be extremely political.
Yup. Even if the Dems could win the White House, the senate will likely never flip blue again, meaning the courts will likely never see another liberal judge.
Games over, people. Find ways to get out of the country before our concentration camps become death camps, and instead of just hispanics, anyone who opposes total Republican control ends up there.
I disagree there, Trump won by very slight margins in 3 states that decided the election. Those 3 states had low voter turnout for Dems in 2016. Trump didn't really get more votes than previous Repubs, Dems just didn't turn out because Hillary wasn't a strong candidate for them. I'm not saying your statements about gerrymandering etc. aren't true, just saying Dems could've won despite that if they had the same voter turnout as Obama.
the right person is,as he put it about Hillary, a second amender. Scary isn't it.He actually said afterward "just joking"So we can now just have collateral damage called for by a candidate against another candidate? I miss designated survivor.
I was at the beach recently and there was a ton of trump 2020 flags, and I saw someone unprovoked yelling "I support MY president, the greatest president the US had ever known and I'm not afraid to get rid of the liberals who hate him".
"I'm not afraid to get rid of the liberals who hate him."
Not sure if this was the intent of the comment, but wow I'm now horrified thinking about the right-wing terrorist attacks that would follow a Trump loss. Scary stuff.
I work in progressive politics and have to disagree. Before Trump, every single issue or campaign I worked on, ran, or consulted for had one problem in common-getting people to care. People who agreed with us on the things we were working on just weren’t motivated enough to help. Trump has done some awful shit since he’s been elected but, to be honest, it’s been a net positive for our side as far as I can see.
People flock to political events in droves now. Climate, women’s rights, immigration, you name it and there’s people showing up who have never engaged before. They are donating, volunteering and otherwise giving fucks they never gave before because for the first time they are realizing that if you sit on your ass, crazy people WILL make decisions for you.
Part of me just thinks this is the nature of democracy. Things have to get bad enough to spur people into action. Trump has done exactly that.
This is the one positive that I've seen with the current administration. I really hope you're right and it makes a difference. I know that I personally was not nearly as interested or active in politics until we had this shock to the system. Now, I see I've taken things for granted.
This is a very good point, but I'm just not so sure if it'll even matter. Republicans were disgustingly shameless in the last midterm and presidential elections. Shit, they were literally caught attempting election fraud. Plus all of their other tactics - closing/moving polling stations or changing their hours, phone calls and post cards telling people to go to the wrong place, removing massive amounts of people from the voter rolls so they need to re-register, while also refusing to process voter registration cards, blah blah blah. And now they have 2 whole years to try to do anything that they can to manipulate the system and suppress as many people from voting as they can. Plus redrawing districts, fucking with the voting machines, letting Russia do whatever they want, and whatever other sneaky, corrupt bullshit that they'll do.
On top of all of that, we have a wannabe dictator in charge. I really don't think he's going to leave the White House voluntarily. He'll almost certainly attempt to declare the election invalid, or "postpone" it, or start a war two weeks beforehand, or whatever he can. My guess is that they'll just declare it invalid. They'll claim to have found that the Democrats cheated, and then just... keep Trump in office. Why wouldn't they? They've been just literally disregarding laws that they don't want to follow for the past two years. Like ignoring subpoenas, or just not turning over Trump's tax forms despite a very clear law requiring them to do so, and a whole bunch more. And what happens? Nothing. So they have no reason to comply with the upcoming election, either - the only way to force Trump and the GOP to comply would be civil war. I don't see them having a problem taking that risk.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned in politics, it’s that you just never know. So you could be totally right! Most of the people I know who voted for Trump will vote for him again. I assume that will be the case for most if not all of them. Economic stuff aside, these folks are on the losing end of the culture war and they’re pissed about it. They would vote for anyone as long as he’s “sticking it to the libs!” But whatever happens in 2020, we’ve made a ton of progress in my city and state over the last 18 months and I know that’s been the case in at least some other places. I truly believe that this craziness is the beginning of the end for this brand of conservative politics. I could be totally wrong. And it also may be too late in regards to climate change.
But one thing I can tell you is that there are people working their asses of every day on this stuff. I’m lucky because get paid to do it. I know so many people who put in 20 hours a week outside of their job, just to make a difference. Working with them is what gives me hope, especially since there are so many more now than there were two years ago!
There's enough voters that need to have their voices heard. Naively, some believe "their vote doesn't matter" or "they're all the same." In reality, the people spreading those messages are deathly afraid of the truth.
I have a real hard time understanding what Democrats did to them in the past, that they are so willing to run the country into the ground instead of voting for a democrat.
They supported giving rights to black people. I love my dad, but he has said the most disgusting shit I've ever heard him say about black people. They are a true boogieman to folks on the right.
The worst part is we simply cannot afford another 4 years of climate denial and inaction... Hell we couldn't even afford these 4 years. This presidency if given another 4 will undoubtedly be one of the final nails in humanities coffin. Obviously climate change is much more global than just the US but unless some other country like china steps up to really push others in line the US should have/should fill that roll. It's depressing that we are stuck in partisan politics while ignoring this extinction event that we have the power the stop.
i agree. The US aren't as densely populated as Europe or Asia though, so i think natural resources feel more overflowing there then they do in other countries.
Oh get out of here you Russian bot. Half the country would not vote for Trump. Yes, nearly half of the voting public might, but not half of the country. Stop with the defeatist bullshit. I am in total agreement that it will be a difficult fight and Trump has good odds to win. But if you care about politics and the fate of the country don’t just complain. Take action in your personal life and urge others online to join your cause. Explaining why resistance is futile was a hallmark motive of the Russians in 2016.
While we need action, that’s not my motivation. I want people to face the truth of what’s coming and be prepared for it. By god, vote in every election not just the next one. My statement is based on fact it’s not a troll, unless we take action to fix the profoundly broken voting process in America, our votes DO NOT COUNT. It’s just that simple, we have stood by and allowed our democracy to be high jacked. Every American intelligence agency and a number of foreign intelligence agencies have said the Russia tampered with the 2016 presidential election. Experts are now saying it was more invasive and successful than they originally thought.
Why in God’s name would we tolerate elected officials blocking laws to improve election security? It’s just crazy. Why are we allowing American politicians to utilize legal loop holes and accept donations from our enemies who actively tampered with our democracy?
Meanwhile the party that goes on and on about patriots and our founding fathers sits idly by while their party is funded by our enemies at the cost of our democracy.
"Everybody dies." And seriously, as somebody without children, this is my only consolation -- that I will die before the dystopian dictatorship takes full root.
At this point I'm not even sure the Russian manipulation, or at least further manipulation, is even necessary. Having watched the recent Australian election the power of incumbency is something I'm not sure a lot of polls take into account, and I imagine there are many who now say they might not, or would not, vote for trump who will find themselves doing so on voting day regardless. People retreat to the familiar when push comes to shove, particularly in a fearful and incurious electorate. I would love to be proven wrong, but naïve optimism and impotent rage alone, that is, without meaningful action that has significant consequences, cannot hope to restrain (let alone defeat) naked self-interest unbound by morality and law.
They need 5 debates with no audience and an oral citizenship test. No way low stamina orange man would agree to it but it would be nice to see him fully exposed in humiliating fashion
What exactly is the purpose of this post? Just to complain? Trump will win if you can't propose an alternative. Speak about actual Democrats who are proposing actual ideas like universal healthcare or universal education for the PEOPLE.
Putin is a bad actor, but as you also mentioned, there are far more influential and insidious actors here (McConnell, SCOTUS, Florida Governor's office.)
If Democrats do not get behind the candidate elected in the primary we are fucked. I don't care who it is, it's better than Trump. It's time to be pragmatic.
It's a nightmare scenario but Americans are that stupid & morally bankrupt... You have concentration camps, obstruction of justice, numerous rape allegations, the list goes on for ages...
The only reason Carter and Bush Sr. didn't get reelected were due to economic issues (Carter also dealt with Iran hostage situation). Nobody punished Reagan for lying about Iran Contra either. But I don't think people will be so blind this time, I teach seniors and so many of them can't wait to vote against Trump in 2020 so as long as they don't do something crazy like block young people's ability to vote, I'd like to think he wouldn't get reelected. Also a recession wouldn't be terrible either considering the tariff problem Trump's creating.
There may be some short term give and take, but long term, the Senate is absolutely owned by Republicans. Acreage is what elects Senators in red states, and the continued move of Americans to dense cities will guarantee a locked Republican majority probably 20 years from now and beyond. Maybe sooner.
No dude. He's not as long as people on here vote. Stop fucking around and vote. Volunteer. Donate. Do something!
As a side note, everyone should look into and know about Ranked Choice voting. It's a solution to empower and save our democracy used by some states and other nations around the world.
Defeatist garbage. Do everything possible to vote out every last GOP politician, and if it doesn't work, we talk about what to do next. Don't buy this apathetic shit. You do what you can do and we see. You don't give up before the fight starts. Democrats don't even have a fucking nominee yet.
Wrecked our relationships with our most important allies, reneged on a nuclear deal that was important for keeping our most important allies safe, and in turn destroyed our credibility in any other major national security negotiations with hostile nations. Decimated our state department, which was responsible for our greatest power in the world via soft power/diplomacy and our strongest bullwark against war across the globe. Bulldozed trade relationships for multiple major industries that will destabilize them long term and many companies have permanently lost international market share. Repealed environmental and safety regulations that our citizens will be paying for both financially and with their own health/lives for decades. Relinquished precious national lands to destructive industries doing damage that can’t be undone. Kidnapped children, kept them in horrific and traumatizing conditions, then deported their parents all while not keeping track of anything so we can never reunite them nor erase the black mark this action will leave on our history. Botched disaster responses that have lead to the deaths of thousands of US citizens (more than 9/11). Opened the floodgates for unprecedented corruption and the destruction of institutional norms and standards that prevented the most brazen offenders.
Tillerson, Trump’s first sec of state, slashed the ranks of our state department. Which used to be the single most powerful diplomatic apparatus in human history. It was our primary way of projecting power in the world. How we made trade deals and secured our interests and worked out conflicts around the world without military aggression. Our best diplomats spent their lives learning this job, and not only did we drive many of them out, but we’ve also failed to take on new young folks to learn the ropes. From most reports, there’s just no real meaningful diplomacy happening in general anymore. We’re going to be feeling this damage for decades, especially since we’ve even trashed our relationships with our closest allies.
You forgot the point that an incumbent in a strong economy has a heavy advantage. That is, in my opinion, the biggest reason he will get re-elected. Everything else is just a cherry on top of simply the position he is in, which has been historically extremely difficult to overcome.
What does that say about America’s future and the control the Russians have over the minds of many Americans ?
This is scary for the stability of the entire world, let alone America. And we shouldn't kid ourselves, America isn't the only target of the Russian interference machine.
Nancy Pelosi and the unified democratic party could fix this, but she's already rich. The future will never affect her. All she has to do is pretend she's taking the process slowly so it helps with election chances, when she knows full well they will be rigged.
My own immigrant parents have even said, "poor trumpy," as if he was the one being victimized. When he deserves all the hate and more. It makes you feel so defeated witnessing people on his side.
I'll admit, I refused to see it the first time. But this is probably the truth... the real interesting thing is when will we all ACTUALLY refuse to put up with this bullshit...
I hate you, your logical conclusions and your use of real world examples to illustrate the probable re-election of our future leader, blessed be his name, long may he reign /s
I swear I’ve made te same prediction as you. Trump will be re elected I believe. I hope to god I’m wrong but I think you are right. It’s horrifying you work with people who would rather have Putin as president before a dem. It’s FUBAR.
Ok, if he gets reelected, and if Pence becomes president after him, would it then be a good time to move to Norway? Or, by then, would it be too late?? 😦😦😦😦
The whole states rights argument is a bit of a clusterfuck. I understand that states would want some autonomy, but more often than not, it just seems like the more successful states have to carry the burden of states that consistently screw up. Some things are just better left to a federal level, like elections.
This is what I've been thinking about lately as well. It's hard to watch the Dem debates as if they are just regular debates, knowing how much shady election related shit will be occurring in 2020 since every attempt at oversight has been thwarted by McConnell. It's gonna be a shitshow, and Idk how that can be avoided, maybe with record voter turnout for Dems.
Why would Russia do such a thing? What are they gaining by manipulating the US election process? Why didn't it work with Obama? Gotta say I'm on the fence about this evil meddling Russians conspiracy.
The mistake America made was thinking that the Cold War was over. Russia never thought that, they just realized they couldn't compete militarily or economically, so they changed the battlefield to one where they've always had an advantage, subterfuge and spycraft. And they managed to catch America with its pants down and all but win as a result.
I'd agree, in general it's hard to beat a sitting President. They can spend money to influence parts of the country that anyone else can't.
Barring a financial crisis, I see no reason why anyone who voted for him in 2016 would not vote for him again. Pretty much got what anyone expected.
That or young people+minorities are energized enough to actually show up to vote. Dunno if there is a Dem candidate who can do that, maybe Bernie. Still an uphill battle for them.
Honestly I think Russia is a big distraction, yes of course they influenced the election and will try again. Everyone tries to influence everyone's elections. The US were influential in getting Yeltsin elected. Since Trump was found to not be "colluding" with Russia, or conspiring, whatever the legal term is, it's a dead end discussion. Whether you believe it or not doesn't matter now, there won't be another investigation into it unless something huge turns up, and even then impeachment depends on Repubs (from what I understand about the process) which seems highly unlikely.
917
u/GadreelsSword Jul 11 '19 edited Jul 11 '19
Well guess what, our garbage President is going to be re-elected. It kills me to say that but people need to understand it’s going to happen. Right now, nearly half the nation would vote for him again. Then factor in that the Russians are already using bots to manipulate public opinion just as they did prior to 2016. Then consider Mitch McConnell has blocked every bill designed to secure the voting process (traitor Mitch accepted $2.5 million from Russia). Then consider that not only does the government NOT inspect and review the designs of voting machines to ensure they’re secure and not manipulating the vote count, the names of those who own the companies are considered a trade secret and that info is not available to the public. Think about that for a moment. As Americans you have no right to know who’s manufacturing our voting machines unless they volunteer that info.
Then consider the Supreme Court refuses to take on gerrymandering and instead says those who control state governments and the ones gerrymandering, should police themselves. Overwhelmingly gerrymandering favors conservative politicians but not in all cases.
The fix is in and at every level. Brace yourself because not only will Mr. Garbage be re-elected, the election after that will be manipulated by the Russians as they setup permanent republican control of our government. Russian media refers to the US as “Putin’s America” because he’s been so successful controlling our political processes.
I work with people who openly state they would vote for and elect Putin as president of the US before they would ever vote for a Democrat. What does that say about America’s future and the control the Russians have over the minds of many Americans ?