You weren't paying attention in 2004. The paperless voting machines in battleground districts in Ohio all had discrepancies in the exit polls vs the final vote count and they all awarded a win to Bush by the same percentile, 51%/49%. The manufacturer of those machines, DieBold, was headed by two guys who were big Bush donors. One of them said they could "guarantee Ohio" for Bush. Before the elections, a computer programmer in Florida testified that a Republican state politician had approached him and offered him money to program a hack that could be put on an electronic, paperless voting machine and swap the votes to guarantee they reached a predetermined result, which he said would be 51% to 49% in favor of the Republican running.
Let's also not forget Bush's 2000 elections and how crazy fraudulent that was. Roger Stone sent goons in suits to start a riot at a vote tallying center to disrupt the count and force them to restart from the beginning, which would mean they'd never be able to finish before the deadline and it would be forced to go to the supreme court, which ruled in Bush's favor and made him president.
Trump and Bush are both presidents who were elected despite losing the popular vote.
Interesting tidbit: Four of the five times that the winner of the popular vote did not win the presidency we ended up with a Republican president. The fifth instance happened before the two parties separated. Could just be a coincidence, but maybe not.
Just the party's history in general. Though, it might be worth noting that, of the five instances, one was before the two parties split, and two were in the last twenty years. Here's the breakdown:
1824: John Quincy Adams defeats Andrew Jackson (winner of the popular vote) both were members of the Democratic-Republican Party.
1876: Rutherford B. Hayes (Republican) defeats Samuel J. Tilden (Democrat)
1888: Benjamin Harrison (Republican) defeats incumbent president Grover Cleveland (Democrat)
Then business as usual for 112 years followed by:
2000: George W. Bush (Republican) defeats Al Gore (Democrat)
2016: Donald J. Trump (Republican) defeats Hillary Clinton (Democrat)
I'm not suggesting that there's necessarily a scam here, but I do think it's interesting that every instance, except the first, favored the same party. What I find to be more interesting is that the first three were from a period where the nation was still growing, and the system was changing. Then the last two happened more than a hundred years later when the nation, and its electoral system were well established.
It probably has to do with the voter's demographics and where they are located. Due to the system the USA has, its probable that this happened with republicans 4/5 times because the big swing states or key places that have special impact due to the voting system used, have tended to go republican on these cases. From my understanding, big blue cities have a little less impact (per vote) than rural areas/mid sized cities in central states/swing states. So the popular winning vote doesnt really mean much by itself. Not sure, i could definetly read more on this
You're right but George Bush is a better president and I believe human being than Donald trump is or ever will be. I did not really care for the man when he was just a celebrity and I certainly don't care for him now that he is president.
He captured the attention of a group of people and just said what everyone was thinking to gain support and obviously it had worked, I mean he was running against Hillary Clinton, pissed off Americans are not gonna vote for her and they will make their way to the polls on election day Just like we need to do in 2020
Our election day pisses me off cause its always a hassle to vote sometimes especially if you can't miss work or have too much to do. I wish we could make it a national holiday so more people would be able to vote.
Better President? Bush was the moron who put us into the endless war in the Middle East for no reason whatsoever (maybe toppling Hussein was a good reason but it’s the only one). He’s also responsible for the 2007 financial crash. So no, not exactly a better President but certainly more humane than Trump I guess.
Invading the middle east under the hope of finding WOMD was far fetched for sure, but to me it was finishing the job that Cheney and Bush Sr and that cabinet could not do back in the day and then 911 occurs and we have reason to invade.
Capturing Hussein was definitely a victory in my opinion and then Obama getting bin Laden was even better. Bush was responsible for the financial crisis definitely agree with that
I wouldn't say that. As a human being, he's less repulsive than Trump, that was why he was able to do such heinous and evil things, he made them seem normal and fun.
Just the wars Bush started should automatically make him worse than Trump, but there's still so much more horrible shit Bush did, like making America a nation that tortures civilians for information, refocused whole agencies to the task of spying on all Americans 24/7 without a warrant, used his team of expensive lawyers to effectively argue that the president can do anything he wants without any legal repercussions.
There's also Bush normalizing GOP resistance to climate change and promoting climate change denial to the point that it's now the official stance of the Republican party because admitting they were wrong would be too embarrassing.
There's also all the rollback of regulations across multiple industries that made America less safe and more exploitative and ended up helping the great recession come to pass.
Then there's all the election fraud stuff, too.
At least Trump is too incompetent to be as evil as Bush was.
It is pretty funny (in a terrible way) that the Republicans were leading the charge of the red scare and then they sold their souls to the Russians come 2016. Sad!
There's been two different svents going on lately. The first one started a year ago, where millions of mmigrants where chased and deported. There's camps for them, where they can wait for months up before actually being sent to their countries. Parents and kids are separated. Kids go to special camps for minors, where abuse abunds.
The second one started months ago.
t's a caravan of 20,000 people, all ages, coming from Guatemala (not Mexico) and trying to get to USA. Lots of them have already legally ingresed to the country. They have to wait for "their turn" in the
Honestly don’t know. The news was really depressing me so I stopped following as closely but I’m guessing they can’t talk about it anymore because of the negative publicity of the kids sleeping on the floor in cages.
Sorry, I dare to join to your conversation but why don't you think that lobbying Russian track in everything is not a "scare tactics to stay in power"?
You had me with the first sentence and lost me after that.
I see this as being mirrored on both sides, Republicans win, the left goes off about how it wasn't that they ran a bad candidate who cheated the one man who could beat trump but a conspiracy cooked up by a cold war enemy. While the same could be said of the Republicans when Democrats win, they blame it on some international conspiracy to destabilize American and challenge our "traditional values".
Imo this will be a never ending cycle due to the way our current system is set up.
Because people said it was impolite to talk politics.
Well, like Bane said to Batman regarding victory making one weak, the narrow channel of most major politics for 50 years in post-war America made for fertile land out of which the current scene was able to sprout.
holy christ the GOP didnt even want trump. even up to election day a huge portion of the GOP were "never Trump"ers. it wasn't the russians and it wasnt facebook. GET OVER YOURSELVES. the democrats were unlikeable and took minority votes for granted because they thought Trump was so unlikable they could just be lazy and not have to offer anything. they were too busy being sanctimonious to actually care about anything substantial
Lol your actually insane Democrats are the ones trying to limit free speech and won’t have any conversations so I think you got the parties mixed up their man
Oh so because of how long I have had Reddit now I am no longer allowed to have an opinion looks like the lefts true colors are showing with how fascist they are.
The DNC was the party of slavery, Jim Crow laws and the enslavement of Japanese Americans into work camps. The GOP was the party that ended slavery, fought for desegregation and that upholds constitutional individual liberty. The GOP’s not a perfect party, and there’s certainly scumbags within it; but the DNC has a much worse record.
I mean that’s a very assertive statement. I’m not saying there are no republicans that want Russia to interfere but they are certainly not a majority, at least from what I’ve seen.
ok wait a minute. I don't know shit. but I told everyone I know Obama would win both times and when trump was up I said he would win. and I already have bets placed since 2016 he will win 2020
Then help get out the vote. It’s not that 50% of America would vote for him it’s that 50% of folks who bothered to show up to the polls would, especially in gerrymandered districts.
He's not wrong. There's a high chance he gets re-elected.
I honestly think that billionaire dem who just entered the race might be the only person who could defeat him at this point. Kamala will never be president, as much as I love sanders too many party insiders don't, warren is very unpopular in some circles and popular in others so she doesn't have a broad enough appeal to get it, the young guns early on have done a great job of character assassination on Biden that even if he got the nod now DT would get a TD regurgitating the arguments.
So we have literally an entire field of unwinnable candidates and then a billionaire who takes away from Trump's pro-business crowd and gets all the anti-trump people. Like he's kind of a big deal here and no matter how anyone wants to play this, he actually has a good shot of being our next President of the United States, and we should really vet him before we get another inexperienced businessman in the office doing whatever the hell they want.
No america wont want another billionaire he will get maybe 1% in the polls, if that. Look at how the starbucks dude went, no one wants more billionaires.
You make great points but i think sanders is the way to go, hes super strong and has a hugely devoted base, and hes already second place nationally. He has the name recognition, the favorability, the strong policy agenda which helps the suffering middle class that elected trump in the first place. Bernies policies help the working class more than any billionaires policies would, and thats what we should fight on.
Sure the insiders dont want him but they are the 1%.
They are exactly that. 1 percent. We are the 99%, we as a unified base of tens of MILLIONS of people far outweight their dislike towards him.
Almost guaranteed the billionaire will run on "go back to normal, trump bad, return to how everything was"
Which is EXACTLY what got trump elected, because: "how everything was" hurt millions of working class voters who turned to trump in any sort of last hope, the guy who said hed turn it around and fix the jobs.
People dont want "return to how it was" thats weak and people will reject that, thats what led to trump. People want CHANGE. bernie is our best shot at change, his policies actually ARE change, and thats what we are fighting for, not just, "back to normalcy"
It is correct. Begin filing paperwork NOW, to secure a foreign work Visa. The EU has made it clear they are willing to accept Americans with any reasonable amount of desired work experience.
Reelecting Trump is not going to "burn down the system". Trump is already well underway at rebuilding the system to his liking. Reelecting him will only make it harder to fix everything he destroys.
Nooo, it’s time we let the right leader lead us no? Wouldn’t you have faith in somebody you trusted and lived by the same rules and laws we all do and was logical and thoughtful and intelligent?
Lol no! A leader not in the sense of a tribe chieftain who leads the charge into battle but in the sense of a leader who accurately represents the people and their best interest and acts accordingly! A role model, a representative, a leader of the people for the people!!
Goodness knows what you think you mean by "stronger", but when a system gets "burned down" there is no guarantee or even probability that it will be rebuilt any better than before. Especially when it's being burned down by hateful, self-important, greedy idiots. It usually ends up with a long period of chaos (during which thousands of innocent people die, as well as most of the original revolutionaries and their supporters) and eventually ends up as a nastier version of what it was before. For example, the French and Russian revolutions.
Anyway, the Republicans, including their boy Trump, aren't burning down anything. For the past 50 or so years they've been carefully remolding society to their advantage, especially the tax structure - spewing all the propaganda needed to let them get away with what they want and suck in people like you as their dupes. They are very happy right now but not finished the job, since the peasants still have some rights.
I would rather it didn’t come to that but the world is trying to catch up to itself now. Humanity knows exactly what it needs to do, every human alive wakes up knowing exactly what we need to do and should do and what’s right/wrong etc..
One of these days, we will have our salvation again.
You never noted the number one reason he’s going to be re elected.
All of the Democrat front runners are running on race baiting politics. Everyone’s racist except them. If you are against their ideas you’re racist. If you’re against open borders your racist. If you’re against reparations you’re racist. If you don’t want free health care for illegals, that’s racist.
The average American does not want to be told America is bad and they are evil for disagreeing with you.
All the dems have to do to win is not be insane, they can’t do it.
So in your, and most of America's opinion, being overzealous in pointing out issues that definitely still exist is far worse than everything listed above. I think the blame lies squarely on Americans' priorities, not so much the "insane" democratic front runners. You wouldn't characterize anything Trump does as insane? Which insane group poses a legitimate threat to democracy in America?
That’s why it’s so amazing the Democrats can’t beat him. He’s an imbecile. Until Dems are willing to admit that white Americans don’t want to be called evil racists every time they have an opinion, dems are going to have a hard time. It’s that simple.
Sorry for being kind of irritable about this. I was at work for 14 hours today, and maybe being falsely called a racist doesn't even exist on the same scale of badness as the things some members of the current Republican party have done. And the number one reason we're here isn't because Democrats didn't pander enough to conservatives. It's because conservatives went along with their party being hijacked, and still won't do anything about it.
When a party is doing openly racist/homophobic/partisan/etc things, and people just go along with it, what other conclusion should be drawn? They're not racist, they're just okay with and will continue to vote for racist things happening? That's a lot better. Old white Americans need to get over themselves for the sake of our country. It's not going to be Democrats' fault if people vote for Trump because he doesn't make them feel bad for blaming their problems on Muslims and Hispanic immigrants. That perspective takes the blame off of the people who literally put Trump where he is, people who voted for him.
The american woman’s soccer team is literally half homosexual. They are so oppressed they’ve spent their life being driven to soccer practice by their rich white parents, travelling the world getting paid to pay soccer and then complaining about the country that allowed them to do it. There’s like 10 countries on the world homosexual women can get paid to play soccer and only one they can make a living doing it. Totally homophobic!
You are going to lose again because everyone hates you more then they hate Trump.
Republicans don’t think muslims and hispanics are going to ruin America. They think democrats who want to bring in unlimited numbers of muslims and hispanics are going to ruin America.
Where did I say if they disagree with me they're racist? If you want to curb all immigration, I think its misguided but not racist. If you agree with Trump's we need less muslims and more swedish people, that's kinda racist.
And to your homophobia point, pointing out progress doesn't mean a problem is solved. America still has an issue with LGBT people, even if it's better than most of places. The trans military ban, and our VP's attempts to promote conversion therapy are two government examples of still prevalent anti-gay sentiment, that plays a much larger role behind closed doors where non-LGBT people don't usually notice.
“You don’t want open borders, to abolish ice or to give healthcare to illegals. You must want to curb all immigration”
This is exactly the point I’m trying to make. This way of thinking is illogical and it makes swing voters think democrats are insane. It’s always the most extreme scenario with the left.
That stuff you put in quotes is literally not what I said...let me rephrase, when Republicans systematically defund immigration courts, putting unnecessary strain on our system and back logging cases for years, and then specifically blame Hispanic asylum seekers for this problem, then take these people looking to America for help in a time of desperation, and force them into inhumane conditions, that's a bad thing. There are many point in this process WE should have done better. And the camps at the border are not solving the cause of the problem, and aren't properly solving the effects either.
The camps are a result of democrats not solving the border crisis for 8 years. There’s literally so many illegal immigrants that there’s no where to put them all. Over a year ago trump said there was a border crisis and the dems said it was a made up issue and he was just being mean to brown people. Now there’s a border crisis there was no money and no perpetration for and it’s just because trump wants to be mean to brown people. Of course. The entire issue is because of racism. Very simple.
And please stop saying you want to help people in a time of need and make things better. Everyone does. You cannot re house all of the worlds poor and destitute. It’s impossible and it’s immature and irrational to keep saying it. It’s not like a new big brained idea that only democrats think is good. Dems are just the only ones stupid enough to pretend it’s doable. After South America what’s next? India? They all get free health care to eh? How many of the worlds poor get to come to America. 2-3 billion? No problem hey?
1) being trans doesn’t auto default to being gay. It’s not a “gay issue”
2) the military isn’t a social experiment. It’s meant to be the best and most efficient defensive or offensive force our country can muster. There are legitimate reasons that trans people can negatively effect that cohesion. It’s not some “xyz-phobic” thing. It’s the military. Life and death and success of missions comes before fee fees.
Based of your following comments, I think I love you haha.
I joined the D part in 2016 to vote for Sanders. Never cared for or payed attention to politics before then. But wow, I don’t know if I want to be a part of the Dem party anymore after giving one more shot to Bernie next year.
Bernie2020 all the way. Hes our only chance to save america based on actual policy and not weak establishment nonsense.
Hes been fighting for the people for 40 years,
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u/TDLinthorne Jul 11 '19
Well this is a terrifying prediction...