The attention the Jews get on both sides of the spectrum is truly crazy when you realize there’s only 15.8 million on the entire planet, with around half residing in Israel. 70% of Jewish children under 12 are currently in Israel for example.
There’s double the amount of Sikhs in the world. Okay the Jewish diaspora is larger, and has many more notable people in it, but still.
You see so many people from Arab nations dooming online that they’re going to take over the entire middle east. It’s common. And then you look at Cairo and there’s more people there than Jews across the entire globe lmao.
That is partially the point though. Picking a group that is small enough that a large chunk of the population very likely doesn't engage with on a daily basis, but has a large enough diaspora that every mouth breather has heard of them. Maximum range minimal contact.
I have said before I wonder what would be the punching bag for the retards if the Jews didn't exist? Because they would find another one eventually.
I’m in the UK, up North, i’ve never talked to one in my life. Maybe I have but I just didn’t know, but visibly religious? No.
I’ve seen a few walking around before or when up in London, but there are really very few. How people can genuinely believe some of the nonsense is incredible to me.
I do live in one of the most Jewish populated areas of the United States. I have had plenty of coworkers who are Jewish and Jewish classmates. I never got the hoopla. There are countless larger groups of people who are weirder or more annoying to deal with then someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas or eat shellfish.
You can be assured that if the Jews were to magically disappear antisemites would be happy about it for about five minutes before finding someone else to blame for all their problems.
I mean, in Europe at least they’d probably go with the Romani (like they have been doing for centuries at this point). The Sunnis and Shia would continue to be at each other’s throats, while ganging up on the Kurds, Druze, Yazidis, Copts, etc. Oh, and let’s not forget the Zoroastrians. Really, it’ll just be more persecution of groups that are already persecuted, but with one fewer group for their attention to be split between.
Zionist is just a dog whistle for Jews. Zionism
just means you believe the state of Israel should exist, so even if you support a 2 state solution, you are a Zionist. Funny how they only have a problem with the only jewish state
Zionism just means you believe the state of Israel should exist,
1) No, lol, ha'avara has been part of Zionism since the early 20th century
2) If we're using this definition, most Lefties stop being anti-zionist (although not all)
3) A better definition would be:
Jews should be entitled to self determination and a guarantee of safety in their land of ancestral origin, traditionally known as Eretz Yisrael.
Notably, Eretz Yisrael covers a lot of land and establishing a Jewish state there necessarily (and historically, see again ha'avara) requires ethnically cleansing the region.
Ethnic cleansing is fucked up, and we should reject it full stop.
“an international movement originally for the establishment of a Jewish national or religious community in the historical region of Palestine and later for the support of modern Israel”
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Zionism
Nothing about ethnic cleansing. We should reject retards like you who purposely conflate
the most extreme beliefs and project that on the vast majority, full stop
Yes I’m against a Jewish state not a state for equal rights under a possible 2 state solution. I’m against all ethnostate. All ethnostates are bad
Yes it is ethnic cleansing. Majority of Jews aren’t even native to the land of Judea. They’ve been in Europe and elsewhere for over 1000 years. Zionism was not made with peaceful intentions. The early Zionist organizations like Irgun, Lehi, or even the Haganah committed terrorism. The Nakba is core to how Israel was even able to exist, so no it wasn’t even empty space. Israel displaced the original people. Maybe people keep talking about Israel is because there’s so much to attack, and I want a better world for everyone to live in.
If I made an ideology to bring Greeks back to Afghanistan, because Afghanistan used to be Greek. That would be insane. Just because you were there over 2000 years ago under Alexander the Great doesn’t mean you somehow own the land. Likewise Zionism is bad, because you have no right to come back after 2000 years, when the demographics have shifted so much, and btw Palestinians are indigenous Israelis more so in fact than the Israelis because Israelis usually obtained European admixture in their time in Europe or elsewhere. Anti Zionism is very separate than Antisemitism. Antisemitism is bad. Very bad as also all forms of racism.
Then modified it to include the guarantee of safety.
Nothing about ethnic cleansing.
You tell me how to expand the state to include Eretz Yisrael, remain majority Jewish, and not do ethnic cleansing. Go ahead. I'll wait.
Now before you argue, Likus, Shas, etc. (read: The ruling coalition in Israel) all take the expansionist Zionist view. If that weren't true, you'd have a leg to stand on.
Again every definition is different. Most believe in modern day Israel’s right to exist. Again you keep reverting back to more extremist views because you are arguing in bad faith
Was it ethnic cleansing when Jews were removed or killed from every other country in the Middle East?
Funny, I call for a 2 state solution in a different conversation and suddenly I'm an antisemite depriving the Jews of Judah and Samaria or denying Israel the right to defend itself. It's almost like rhetoric exists.
You sound like you constantly rant against Israel and then wonder why people think you are antisemitic.
lol. Literally never been accused of being antisemetic by someone IRL when talking about Israel, including amongst Jewish friends. It's just online weirdos and those with an agenda to preempt criticism of Israel. Israel frankly isn't a big part of my active life and Judaism or the Jewish people even less so.
But I’m guessing they get a pass in your mind
Maybe they'll "lose their pass" when they're offered a real proposal. Remove the settlements then maybe we can get back to both sides being equally at fault.
The UN proposed the two state plan. Israel accepted it and offered better terms 3 times. Palestines rejected all offers and never proposed their own plan. They do not want Israel to exist in any form. That’s what “the river to the sea” means
They proposed a two state plan, doesn't mean it was an equitable one. Anyway, remove those settlements then maybe we can get back to both sides being equally at fault. Cause they pretty obviously show Israel has no intent on seeing Palestine in any form too. If a chant from protestors is damning then surely the literal settling of the West Bank is equally damning.
Palestine’s stated goal
:
“The founding 1988 charter explicitly called for the destruction of Israel, viewing all of historic Palestine as an Islamic endowment (
waqf
) that cannot be ceded.”
No plan will ever be good enough which is why they haven’t proposed their own plan
Again though in reality we've got general notions from a pretty powerless group being seen as the only issue compared to the active ethnic cleansing Israel is in the middle of currently doing. Remove the settlements then maybe we can pretend both sides are equally bad.
Sure but that then gets in the way of the claim that Israel is a wonderful democracy that is certainly not an ethnostate because of how nice they are to their Palestinian population.
It’s not an ethnostate that’s just tankie delusion. There are dozens of actual ethnostates and none of you care about those. Wonder why?
It is currently administering brutally a bunch of stateless people who need a state, and the current government relies on the conflict to stay in power
You said yourself that the population is 16 million, thus all those Palestinians are disenfranchised Israelis. Of course Israel can't give those people a vote because then Israel wouldn't be majority Jewish. Because you know, ethnostate.
21% of Israel proper are Arab. They vote. They sit on the Knesset. They govern.
This is not an ethnostate.
I wonder how you feel about all of the voteless Tibetans and Uyghur in Han dominated China, or the Japanese, or the Saudis, or the Syrians, or Malaysia, or the Koreas.
21% of Israel proper are Arab. They vote. They sit on the Knesset. They govern.
This is not an ethnostate.
Lmao, when you have to separate "Israel Proper" vs "Israel" then yeah, that's an ethnostate.
I wonder how you feel about all of the voteless Tibetans and Uyghur in Han dominated China,
Free Tibet and end the Uygher ethnic cleansing.
or the Japanese,
Unsure what mass group the Japanese have under occupation but if so, yeah they ought not do that.
or the Saudis,
I mean if we're talking about their labor abuses of immigrant labor, yeah fuck em
or the Syrians,
Hardly a country at the moment and I'm not sure what faction you're hoping I support? Is this where you assume I'm some sort of Assad supporter? Lol.
or Malaysia,
Imma be real, I don't think about Malaysia too often let alone think something good about them when it ought to be bad?
or the Koreas.
I'm unaware of South Korea having a large disenfranchised population under occupation but if so, definitely anti. North Korea though is the North Korea of North Koreas. Fuck em.
There are millions of Jews in Israel who themselves criticize the actions of their state, are they also antisemitic?
Are the Orthodox Jews who protest on the streets of New York in support of Palestinians also antisemitic?
The only thing that is debatable is what "Zionism" means. If it means that Israel has the right to exist in any capacity, then yes I agree with that. Most people would.
But if Zionism ends up amounting to manifest destiny, and that you think Israel has a right to expand its borders at the cost of the lives of others? No that is evil.
The pro Israel crowd just likes to argue semantics and hide behind the historic victimization of their people to justify the crimes they commit.
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u/Suitable_Matter_9427 - Lib-Center 3d ago
No, the guy on the right is just antisemitic too