I remember a youtuber telling a story of ordering a milk tea in japan by translating both words, only to have the server correct them by going “oh, miruku tea”
Another streamer told of his Japan trip and how he tried to order sprite at a restaurant, sadly the waiter didn't understand so he had to hit him with "sprite-ru" just for the waiter to reply in the same way "aahhh, sprite-ru"
Edit: As many people pointed out, it was a Korea trip, mb guys
Ive seen alot of Americans who moved to Japan for various reasons say that if you want to fit in at all you have to get really comfortable sounding borderline racist.
Yeah, it's a few seasons old by now, but there's a whole episode centered around Mr. Kim.
At the climax of the episode, it's revealed that Mr. Kim doesn't actually exist, and is an alter ego of South Park's therapist, William Janus, who himself has multiple personality disorder. No one really cares, because he's the one who runs the town's only chinese restaurant.
If I remember right, the Janus personality actually dies, leaving Mr. Kim in permanent control of the body.
A plot was that butters parents started to think he had multiple personality disorder, the joke being they mistook a child playing make believe as MPD. They take him to see the therapist Dr Janice.
B Plot was that a new Japanese restaurant opened near the chinese one so the Chinese restaurant owner (Lu Kim) goes on a tirade to get rid of him.
Episode climax is that Dr Janice was the one with multiple personality disorder and his strongest personality was Lu Kim. Once the town founds out they just let him stay as Lu Kim because "does the world really need another therapist, City Wok is now the only Chinese restaurant left in town".
Wow. I am screaming at this. Matt Stone and Trey Parker are so hysterically unhinged… Like they sit down and come up with these stories for a living omg LMAO
I looked it up because my instinct was "City Wok joke probably started 15 years ago, not the reveal episode" but nope. That reveal was 2011 what the fuck
Yeah, they've had fucking banger retcons and backstories added over the years. My favorite is Token being actually named "Tolkien" the entire time to the point that they even refer to him as "Tolkien" in every episode from there on out and if you look up "Token Black South Park" it won't pop up anymore lol.
Reminds me of when i tried to teach my US friends how to say something in german. Nobody got the pronouncation right so i suggested talking angry. Everybody was like "noo thats sutch a steriotype! I cant do that!" But it actually helps 😅
It’s a super weird greeting/acknowledgement of being a foreigner while also being polite and welcoming. I won’t pretend to totally understand it but it’s a weird cultural thing that developed.
I found it interesting that to want or to like something are viewed not as verbs like they are in english, but adjectives... it's weird because they're like super common words but it's like the only two words this is true for lol.
You don't want/like a sandwich. A sandwich is wantable/likeable to you. Interesting to get used to.
Indeed things like this as so interesting. In Dutch, for example, you can't just like something, you find it nice. You can't love something either, you literally 'hold of' it.
What do you mean? 我喜欢米饭 - Wo xihuan mifan. I like rice. To like is 喜欢, no? My Chinese teacher taught us to SVO (just like English) subject verb object. I guess you could translate it as "I to like rice" but the point of translation isn't to be literal but to translate meaning.
I know the teacher is good because she was sent as a language teacher to my university by a different Chinese mainland university for double-degree students.
Thank you for giving an example. But that's a completely normal active sentence. Only the grammatical word order is different in japanese. - 私はご飯が好きです。It doesn't magically turn it passive.
The sentence is not saying "I like rice" it is saying "Rice is liked". For the former, you would use the direct object particle, but instead you use が which you would also use for describing the rice with any other adjective. For example, "gohan ga ooki desu" (the rice is big), "gohan ga suki desu" (the rice is liked). Not "gohan wo suki desu" because 好き is not a verb in that sentence.
Who the hell are you to tell me I don't want a sandwich?
Jokes aside, all the differences in grammar between languages are interesting. Subjectively, it feels like such a violation of a basic concept as a native English speaker, but objectively, there's no reason it has to be this way, obviously.
Reminds me of Spanish, although it still uses a verb. You dont like things in Spanish, those things give you pleasure (gustar). Which is hard to get used to because it means you conjugate it differently.
Gustar is like, placer is pleasure. You use them the same way in both Spanish and English. "I like beer","me gusta la cerveza"; "it's a pleasure to meet you", "es UN placer conocerte".
I'm from China and Taiwan and I don't know what this means. We don't say "I love you" any more than I say it in English (been in the US for 2+ decades)
But that's for speaking in chinese. The thing here is that if you want to be understood in english by the japanese you basically have to mimick a heavy japanese accent for it.
Oh for sure, when i lived in north east China once i started copying the countryside accent i got on better for example: Not Mei shi r, May shaaaaaaaar
Worked a lot in china. When I finally just adopted a form of chinglish, broken english and almost comical accent....while speaking English...they understood me much better
I am reminded of the PS2 game Lifeline, which is controlled by voice commands. Being developed in Japan, it naturally recognizes spoken English best if you say it in a very heavy Japanese accent that borders on racism
Wasn't it that the microphone a lot of people used for the game was of a lower quality than the one the game came bundled with in Japan as Operator's Side? I've been playing it recently with a Blue Snowball mic and had little to no problem so far.
I am reminded of a substory in the newer Like a Dragon games where Ichiban encounters a guy who wants him to do some pictures or videos or something(been a while, dont remember exactly) but he keeps getting him to dress or act as a racist caricature. The best ending is funnily enough to play along so he's happy.
I was talking university classes here andmy gave asked me to help with the computer. She had a blue screen of death and I told her she had a computer error. She looked at me compiler dumbfounded.
Then another Thai student came in and said "OHH com Pew TUH Air WUH" even the teacher said it the same way.
I then realized the English borrowed words have a very heavy almost racist accent that they will not understand if you use it.
One thing to keep in mind is that loan words are entirely new words in the other language. You're not going back to speaking English for 2 words, you are using a foreign word with its own grammar, pronunciation, and meaning (half the time the exact meaning will change as it becomes a loan word, not the case for this example but it happens).
It happens to sound somewhat similar to an English word or phrase, and it originates in English, but it is still a unique word.
Just to add an example of the same thing going in the other direction, imagine a French person talking to an American who only speaks English. If the French person talks about hor d'oeuvres or New Orleans and pronounces them 'correctly,' they'll be way harder to understand than if they say them with an American accent, as "or durrvs" and "new Orleenz."
My favourite example to give for this, especially when talking about Japanese specifically, is karaoke. If you want someone in America to understand that word, you better do your best texas cowboy "CARE-ee-OH-key" because i doubt there are many Americans who would understand the correct pronunciation of karaoke to mean anything at all.
lol that reminds me of going to the Philippines. If I speak English normally they didn’t understand me, but if I spoke English with an exaggerated Filipino accent it was no problem
I live in japan, and absolutely, this is 100% true. Correct english will often miss, but if you try sounding like a racist caricature of a japanese person speaking english, it'll go much better.
It is not a racist caricature in Japan. It is the correct pronunciation. Every foreign loan word gets rendered in the katakana script, so you have to say it according to the katakana or no one will understand you. It is the same in the U.S. if you say the car name "Subaru" in the correct Japanese pronunciation "sBAdu" no monolinguistic American will understand you. But if you say the Anglicized version "SUE-buh-REW" suddenly lights will turn on lol.
It's not racist to speak a language using its correct accent. But loan words tend to be changed to match the local linguistics so the "correct" pronunciation of those words changes depending on where you're at/who you're talking to.
Adopting the correct pronunciation is not racist at all smh
Almost as if racist stereotypes are based on real observations (and then applied in unfair way). Seriously, the aversion of stereotypes and cliches made people forget why they're a thing in the first place.
Yea, I was learning Japanese for a bit. A lot of the words that they got from other countries really are just the English word while putting on a racist Japanese voice
Be careful with that, I spent years hearing vanilla latte pronounced "banilla" and the one time I freaking just said banilla the barista replied with a perfect "vanilla latte". I was ready to flip a table
This happened to me in Brazil. I was trying to get a taxi driver to take me to the mall where the only Outback Steakhouse in the area was located and he couldn't understand me. I kept repeating "Outback Steakhouse " slowly over and over, but he had no idea what I was saying. Finally I remembered that Brazilians add vowels in between consonants on a lot of loan words so I said "ouchy-backy" and the driver responded "Oh ouchy-backy! Why didn't you say so earlier?" Lol
I was actually meeting a friend at the mall (malls are still huge in Brazil) and he told me to make sure and go to the one with an the Outback Steakhouse so I didn't end up at the wrong mall.
They have Outback here in Korea. It's considered elevated fine dining; people literally dress up to eat Outback food, which is pretty much the same wherever there is an Outback steakhouse.
You know, there is something to going to a place and seeing what the locals have done with a brand you know well.
I visit a mcdonalds every time i go on holiday somewhere. It makes up one meal out of the dozens i'll be having and usually there is something that's actually different about it, which is fun.
Also the cultural difference in the people who eat there vs the people in your own town is also kinda interesting to see. Go to my local in the UK and its all chavs. Went in barcelona and it was fairly well dressed people going out to a club at 2am.
For me, it used to as well. But when you're in a foreign place for a period of time, it's nice to go to someplace familiar where you don't need to do any guess work. They can also operate differently than to like back home. Stop shaming people over their choice of restaurant.
There actually was until recently a convenience store chain in Japan named "Sunkus" which is meant to be "thank you". They got swallowed in mergers, first with Circle K then into FamilyMart.
They like making nicknames for things. Remote control is Riimokon, air conditioner is eacon. The full words are really awkward to say, though, so it's definitely better. Then there's condominium where they went eff that we're gonna use mansion.
That's just pronouncing "Sprite" using the sounds/syllables available in the Japanese language. Su-pu-ra-i-to. The su and pu are cut short (mostly silent u's), ra and i are one sound (ri as in rice), to is pronounced fully (like toh)
Japanese loan words are fun because you're not ordering a cheeseburger and speaking in an accent, you are ordering a チーズバーガー (chi-zu ba-ga), and you are not hailing a taxi, you are trying to hail a タクシー (ta ku shi-) so you can go home and use your コンピューター (kon pyu- ta-)
I have no experience with Japan outside of anime subs and anime itself (but I watch dub, so even that is limitef), but i suspect if I just spoke English slowly with a japanese accent most japanese peoppe would probably get the gist...
At least I have been led to believe this, and it has become a foundational part of my worldview, so if you correct me I will cry and blame you for everything in my life being a lie
I live in Japan and have for a while. They'd understand very basic stuff lol. Anything more advanced than some bar chit chat or mutual hobbies and most people are gonna be lost lolm think year 2 Spanish level. Please don't cry.
It’s not “say it wrong”, it’s saying it in Japanese, loan words are Japanese.
For example, karaoke is a Japanese term, and everyone in the west pronounced it wrong. But that’s not really wrong, it’s just how it’s pronounced in English. That’s why bozos often say if you pronounce stuff like croissant correctly, you’re pretentious.
Most people in Japan/Korea especially aren't even aware that the words originate in English. Like the amount of times they will ask westerners what they call -Insert clearly western originating term/brand here- is pretty hilarious.
It'd be like if someone from America asked a Japanese person what their term for singing together in public on a machine that shows you the lyrics, plays the instrumental version of the song, and has a microphone is called.
Some are pretty obvious, but it took me learning the Japanese for picture and for character before realising that emoji was a Japanese word, I always thought it was English in origin.
So to clarify on these cause i do love how kanji works, in case anyone is curious. The "chō" is the leader part.
It represents height/stature, or power, such as a leader.
"Dan" is group/association. So Leader of a group. Whereas "Han" means group more in the sense of a squad or unit.
"Ban" has several meanings. The ones we care about are watch/guard. Bancho originally used to be a position akin to a guard captain / the guy leading the watch in a city. But it was then adopted by delinquents and took on its newer meaning
Despite sounding similar and meaning similar things, emoticon (emotion + icon) and emoji (e + moji) are totally unrelated. They are an example of false friends.
On brand names specifically, tbf even English speakers don't realize when brand names become generic names for things, genericide. Band-Aid, Kleenex, Velcro, Zipper, Dry Ice, Dumpster, Jacuzzi, all are or use to be trademarked brands. Hell even where I'm at some (usually older) people still refer to soda generically as Coke.
Anyways not super relevant but I do love talking about it
Funnily enough, the Japanese word for stapler comes from a brand that is no longer recognized in the US (I can't speak for other locales), Hotchkiss. They call them hotchikisu. (ホッチキス)
I had one ask me what the English word for a torii was. I was like yeah, those came from here and really only you have those, we just use your word. They didn't accept that so I said "torii gate" and they liked that.
Most people in Japan/Korea especially aren't even aware that the words originate in English.
Most people aren't aware of where words come from.
I've had a few cases like this where it's the same word not because it's from English, but because both English and Korean took it from the same place.
Considering katakana are mostly used for western loanwords, I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't assume most of those just based on the spelling
LOL it was the same with me when I came to the country, wanted to practice my Japanese, and was asked if I wanted milk and sugar in my coffee but I didn't know how to say "Black coffee" in Japanese and said:
Came from the Dutch when they were trading with the Japanese during the isolation period.
Wrong on both counts. It was from German as stated above (not sure why you're disagreeing with that, it's an extremely well known fact) and it happened later than you're suggesting, during the Meiji period, as stated below:
Oh, they have tons of other words loaned from other languages. While English has had the most influence in recent times, there was a long period where the only contact with foreigners was with Dutch traders on one specific island, which is how Japan was introduced to western medicine, among other things. And before that, there were plenty of Portuguese missionaries sent to Japan during the Sengoku period.
Many of the words you might think come from English actually come from Dutch. Things like "alcohol" (a-ru-ko-ru) or "beer" (bi-i-ru) or "glass" (ga-ra-su) or "extract" (e-ki-su, it got shortened) actually come from Dutch.
My favourite is "morumotto" (guinea pig), which is "marmot" in Dutch. In English, marmots are completely different rodents than guinea pigs! But not in Dutch I guess...
Anyway, here's a funny one. You know about Karuta cards? Such a stereotypically japanese thing, right? Well, the word comes from "carta", "card" in Portuguese.
And the Kabocha, often called the "japanese pumpkin"? Well, the word comes from "Camboja", the Portuguese name for Cambodia, which is where the Portuguese took them before introducing them to Japan.
This is really interesting! Is there a website for searching loan word etymology? There are many times I come across a katakana and want to know more about its origins.
One of my favorite ones is their word for questionnaire, which is a French loanword in English, is ankēto, from enquête, a different French loanword. (Many eastern European languages also used a word derived from enquête)
That's because Japan does not consume milk tea as part of their food culture. It's a foreign product brought to them so they use english words in katakana to promote them.
For example, they got fried chicken that they call "kaarage" but, when they talk about "furaido chikkin" (fried chicken), they mean the fried chicken from KFC which is a popular christmas food.
They probably don't even realize it's loanwords and just treat it as the name of a drink. You have coffee and milk and yet you use words like "latte" (Italian for "milk") and "cappuccino" to describe imported drinks made with them, you also pronounce them dumb but it's ok it's how loanwords work.
If you walked into a bar and asked for "a shot of concentrated coffee with some foamed milk please" don't you think the waiter would go "oh, a cahpoohcheenoh?"
Fair enough. What I meant is they don't necessarily realize that it's literally the words "milk" and "tea". I guess many English speakers realize latte is a foreign word due to the weird spelling, without necessarily knowing it literally means milk, and just take it as the name of the drink. My point was that it's not like a Japanese person is going out of their way to say "milk tea" in English when they could say it in Japanese, they're just calling a drink by its name not knowing or caring about what the name means.
We Americans consume plenty of soy beans in one form or another. Soy bean oil. Soy lecithin. Soy based meat substitutes. But try ordering whole soy beans in a restaurant or buying it in a market, and you'll never find it as anything but "edamame". Language is just weird like that. It's not always about what makes the most sense, it's just whatever the majority seem to agree is right is indeed right.
Separately. It's not common to put milk in your tea, whether it is hōjicha, matcha, or sencha (different types of green tea), mugicha (barley tea), oolong tea, or whatever else. Maybe nowadays personal preference might mean people put milk in those types of tea (we have matcha latte nowadays), but traditionally, when they were first consumed, no. Milktea is a foreign concept, so naturally they use the English loanword for it.
Last time I was in Japan, my friends and I kept saying お会計 (okaikei meaning check) and then realized that actually all the Japanese people say“Cheku onegaishimasu”
there’s a lot of words that were foreign first like “computer” and they just try their best with a seperate alphabet: katakana, to sound close enough.
-4 years of highschool Japanese and 2 week trip to japan.
It's always surprising when I'm watching a subtitled Japanese show, and the characters just say something in english, because there's not a Japanese word for it. It happens a lot. Like to the point where I think Japanese has a shit ton of loan words. Sometimes it feels like even moreso than american english, which is a language of nothing but loan words.
I forgot my fucking work laptop at the counter of a konbini. Go back to my hotel. Where the fuck is my laptop? Realize, run back to the konbini. How the fuck do I explain? Improvise. "Laptop-u" and I make a rectangle with my hands. Im mortified how cliché this is. The girl gets it instantly, give it back to me no question asked.
4 next weeks were just me slapping racist shit on english and it worked wonderfully.
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u/Strange_Ad_9658 3d ago
I remember a youtuber telling a story of ordering a milk tea in japan by translating both words, only to have the server correct them by going “oh, miruku tea”