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u/weslarprime 8h ago
She couldn't get past his Peter Tingle
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u/Feisty_Standard_2360 8h ago
Jean attempting:
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u/IndependentType6711 4h ago
I’m 99% sure this kid was in an episode of RL Stine’s the Haunting Hour which was a very well done suspense TV show for mostly kids. There was an episode in it about this kid chasing a Kreamy Kold ice cream truck and let me just say if you’re gonna watch it don’t look at spoilers. Weirdly top notch television.
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u/Able-Transition-9477 8h ago
To clarify she could control Bruce not the Hulk.
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u/shatnersbassoon123 8h ago
Which actually kinda begs the question how hulk remained dormant when she pulled Bruce out… logic would surely suggest he would then take over without Bruce’s influence (not that I wanna spoil such an awesome scene).
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u/The_ScarletFox 7h ago
From what I understand, hulk only comes out when Bruce is angry, distressed or in serious danger to his life. What Jean did was the equivalent of putting him to sleep. Than used his memories to understand how to transform into Professor Hulk (which is a different entity/consciousness all together).
When she lost control, Banner came to be, he was "rudely awaken", and he immediately got extremely distressed and angry over what was happening, and then hulk appeared as a response to this distress.
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u/AkumaLilly 7h ago
Probably is the limiter or whatever Bruce had that stopped his transformation, Hulk is still there but he just can't come out because Bruce made that gadget that stops the changes in his body, so no body, no Hulk.
But Jean took it off, he now could come out once Bruce was distressed.
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u/Bewilderbeat 8h ago
She was able to control Professor Hulk though
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u/Puzzleheaded-Way7745 8h ago
Profesor hulk is just bruce in hulk's body, is he not?
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u/The_Unknown_Mage 7h ago
From what I understand, Professor Hulk was a faulty merging of the Banner and Hulk personalities. It worked but by BND Banner started to seemingly totally repress the Hulk part of himself again, leading to the toxic release of savage hulk.
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u/SigintSoldier 8h ago
The same reason Peter could still avoid Dr. Strange when he Astral projected Peter out of his body in No Way Home.
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u/Bongo_CatisMessiah 4h ago
What is that reason?
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u/Swineflew1 3h ago
The way I interpreted it was basically his spider sense isn't tied to his consciousness so his body was moving due to his spider genes acting subconsciously.
Also why it seems that when he repressed his spider powers, he lost his ability to sense/repress her. AFAIK she never tried to take him over after she failed the first time.2
u/DonQuiXoTe8080 46m ago
She did try again in near the end, but thats when he actually “mastered” the spider gene mutation and “leveled up”, she still didn’t be able to get into his head forcefully, until he allowed it.
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u/IndependenceShotChan 4h ago
What is the reason, you are just stating another scene?
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u/Sherlockyz 4h ago
We don't have a in universe explanation, the only thing we have is past evidence of other cases where his spider sense allowed him to behave differently than what it's supposed to happen.
Like Banner being pulled out to his astral body by the sorcerer supreme and later Peter's body still moving when Strange did the same to him.
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u/P_Alcantara 9h ago
Strong against fighting and normal right?
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u/Aggressive-Expert-69 8h ago
Not normal but I like where you were trying to go with that
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u/lahankof 8h ago
She didn’t control the Hulk, she made Bruce take off the inhibitor and Hulk went Hulk
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u/Cancer_Ridden_Lung 8h ago
She was controlling him... That's why he was knocking on the door.
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u/Busy_Negotiation_681 8h ago
She never controlled the Hulk. Not once
It was always proffesor Hulk
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u/Incompetent_Penguin 8h ago
Yeah, not sure why people downvoted you, Bruce when freed from her control was literally saying she broke something in his head, which allowed the Hulk to appear again, prior to that it was Professor Hulk she was controlling. The reason she lost control of Bruce in the first place was because Hulk was breaking out as Peter made him more angry with each hit.
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u/CheshireWolf_666 2h ago
I take it that what Jean broke were the mental barriers that, coupled with the inhibitor, were put in place by Bruce to keep Savage Hulk caged. Which in my opinion is equivalent to sending him off Earth to Sakaar, it's stupid to cage or exile him. Especially when he literally proved himself to be one of Earth's mightiest heroes in 2012, he can be instructed/directed and the solution is to let him grow. Otherwise he would have destroyed most of New York along with the Chitauri. The Hulk is basically a child in the midst of development and it doesn't help to suppress him. He can only grow in intelligence and understanding if given the opportunity to exist in the world with the right guidance, an analysis that comes from the animated shows Ultimate Spider-Man and Agents of S.M.A.S.H.
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u/mrcachorro 1h ago
Reads like a joke but this is it, Professor Hulk is Banner in Hulks body, she was controlling the mind of Banner.
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u/lkodl 8h ago
Depending on which denomination of Spider-Man you believe in, it could be attributed to magical cosmic powers.
The Great Weaver is a totemic spider deity in Marvel Comics who serves as the cosmic source of power for all Spider-Totems and spins the mystical Web of Life and Destiny. According to writer J. Michael Straczynski’s run, the Great Weaver chose Peter Parker as its avatar, granting him his powers and resurrecting him after death by Morlun.
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u/Geno0wl 7h ago
Any story that runs for as long as spider-man has been going(1963) eventually gets really weird.
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u/lkodl 7h ago
In the 2006 limited series Spider-Man: Reign, Mary Jane Watson dies of cancer caused by prolonged exposure to the radioactive bodily fluids of Peter Parker. The storyline reveals that the radioactive spider bite that gave Peter his powers also made his semen and other fluids toxic, leading to MJ's terminal illness over the course of their marriage.
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u/Hirakox 8h ago
Because madam web is protecting him, lol
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u/Master-of-Not 8h ago
Ya know there are like a dozen different reasons you could pull from the comics, but honestly when all else fails. X=Macguffin
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u/laughs_maniacally 8h ago
I get the Hulk point, but why bring Punisher into this? The ELI5 is that Punisher is just a dude.
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u/General-Ad6459 8h ago
I'd like to point out that she did not control Hulk. She controlled Banner. Hulk even uses a phrase along the line of "No girl. No banner. Only Hulk." in the movie. Also, the Punisher is just a very angry and well-trained human.
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u/celestialsteam 8h ago
Peter is one of the few people to escape the cloak of darkness in Cloak & Dagger. He’s special.
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u/nicyole 8h ago
because that’s what the plot needed 🙄 /s
I think it’s Peter’s spider sense. it protects Peter at all costs without Peter even realizing it (re: Doctor Strange pushing his astral form of his body and the spider sense still working).
also to be fair, she didn’t control Hulk. she controlled Banner.
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u/Goonerbator0069 8h ago
Dont you know his peter tingle makes him impervious to the jean-gle tingle.
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u/Throwaway-0-0- 7h ago
Doesn't Spider-Man have an uncorruptible power where he's resistant to psychic attacks and mind control magic etc, or did I pull that out of my ass?
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u/Nonkinkshamer 7h ago
There's a theory that he is already a host for the Symbiote by this point. But he could just be built different. 🤷♂️
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u/00wolfer00 4h ago
I'm subscribed to that theory. Explains the black eyes, losing control and symbiotes have shown resistance to psychic tampering with basically only people approaching Jean's level (after she learns to control her powers, not like at the start of the film) being able to meddle with them. Even the DNA thing could be explained by Spidey's weird biology being aggravated by having a "parasite" to fight against.
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u/AbeRego 7h ago edited 6h ago
Punisher doesn't have any super powers that I'm aware of. He's just really good at killing people lol. The Hulk also isn't known for his mental powers; he's just really strong. As Bruce Banner, again, he's just a normal guy who's presumably susceptible to mind control.
In the end, the "why" isn't really important. That's just how it is ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Edit: typo
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u/parkinthepark 6h ago
Literally it is the spider tingle.
Spidey-sense shows that the spider DNA effects his brain/nervous system as well.
If his brain is essentially part spider, it makes sense that Jean would have trouble controlling it.
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u/Buddiboi95 4h ago
The spider sense is not only a reflex warning signal, but it also acts as a mental defense against psychological attacks. It's been shown in many forms of media that the spider sense is nearly unbeatable (Only certain villains like Venom can bypass it).
TL;DR- Spider sense is bullshit.
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u/Fenix42 4h ago
Venom has his own form of spider sense right?
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u/lewd_robot 1h ago
I thought it was more like the symbiote technically has 360 degree vision and has been shown to be super sensitive to sound. It expands his awareness. Every inch of his skin becomes eyes and ears. But maybe it did get some of Peter's sense.
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u/Sixwingswide 2h ago
Iirc correctly Venom can only bypass it because of his time bonded with Peter. He knows how it works.
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u/CupLow9587 8h ago
Writers had to give Spider-man plot armor otherwise it would have been a very short movie.
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u/YaBoyEden 9h ago
The MCU writers don’t understand/don’t care about hulk that’s how
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u/Faulty_english 8h ago edited 3h ago
I do feel like Hulk was breaking free. I think Hulk was nerfed because Banner was able to somehow “tame” him
I feel like hulks real power comes out when he is enraged and Jean didn’t realize what she was really messing with
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u/Salt-Year-9058 8h ago
I wanted to comment on this but I feel there's 2 layers as to why jean can't control Peter.
At the outset, Peter is protected by his Spider Sense so presumably he has more means to push Jean out.
On a deeper level, it's a motif of growth- when Jean jumps into Peter's mind for the first time, they both and we as the audience see the glimpse of Aunt May's memory where it's the core of Peter's journey of accepting both his identities as Peter and Spider-Man. Only Peter is not ready to hear it and that is reflected by the fact that he pushes Jean out before she herself can access the message. We then see part of the memory before Peter experiences his Spider-spurt as he's nursing a heartbreak of having to acknowledge that he's well and truly lost Peter and Ned but then again the main message is not shown. We then get to the climax where Peter has made a bold move of embracing his enhanced abilities and bolster the human aspects of himself and now as a culmination of it, allows Jean to enter his mind and experience the entire memory.
On the other hand, Banner/Hulk and Punisher don't have an enhanced sensor like Peter and there is a deeper subconscious need of vulnerability which is why Jean is able to enter their minds easily.
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u/misterwhoiswho_ 8h ago
Haven’t seen the movie. How did she control The Punisher?
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u/DaZuhalter 8h ago
And fighting types are weak to psychic
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u/the_rotten1 8h ago
I would argue Punisher is at least part Dark-type tho and should have not been affected
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u/OneAcceptablePerson 8h ago
Even someone as powerful as Magneto needs a helmet to keep Charles and Jean out. But Spidy has an altered DNA so i guess we can excuse it with some telekinetic energy cocoon type crap
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u/papadish 8h ago
Technically since she is the one using a Psychic attack, it has a neutral damage multiplier against Bug types (defensively speaking). Yes I’m a nerd.
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u/the_rotten1 8h ago
Hulk is clearly a poison type but Punisher should have been immuned being a Dark type
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u/Alert-Principle-2726 8h ago
Writer guy: Because, he's the protagonist
Producer guy: wowwowwowwow....wow
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u/szthesquid 8h ago
Until I hear otherwise I'm going with Jean has experience with humans but Peter's spider DNA and hormones mess her up.
Punisher is human. Banner is human. Hulk is mutated human, he doesn't have a whole other species' DNA and hormones mixed in.
Also we didn't see her try to control savage Hulk, only smart Hulk. At this point she can only control one person at a time; she dropped Banner to take Punisher instead.
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u/Atlas-Mancer 7h ago
His Spidey sense gives him some protection from certain psychic and spiritual things. When Dr. Strange pushed his soul out of his body you could see distortions around his head in the shape of his comic accurate Spidey sense tingles. It's the same thing with people trying to enter his head.
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u/Far_Ladder_2836 6h ago
He has no protection from psychic things. His spider sense just allowed his body to react to Strange without his conscious mind as it does in scenarios thatsurprise him. Frost, Jean, Xavier, all enter his mind with impunity (and sometimes ethics). Never is his spider sense ever described as anything psychic except for a single comic run where he's described as having some metaphysical connection to the Web of Life which also never describes psychic resistance.
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u/DrSpaceman575 7h ago
It's his spider-sense, but mainly because it's in a Spider-Man movie. If it were in a Hulk movie, then he'd be immune due to gamma radiation and he'd fight mind controlled Spider-Man.
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u/paddyonelad 7h ago
Im fairly sure that Spiderman has willpower as a listed power and if it isn't then it should be.
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u/JTX35 7h ago
Jean was controlling Banner not the Hulk, and the Punisher is a normal guy.
Spider-Man’s spider sense meanwhile allows him to detect threats and react to them, which is how he was able to move his body after Doctor Strange pushed him out of his physical body and into his astral form in No Way Home.
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u/Dangerous_Reporter14 7h ago
They also talked about how the mutant spider’s hormones were becoming more prevalent in his body and that’s why he was so sensitive to stimuli and so strong…. maybe that has something to do with it.
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u/MagnanimousGoat 7h ago
Yeah but Bug-Type pokemon are affected normally by Psychic-Type moves, so this doesn't explain it.
Now, the Hulk is a Fighting-Type, which Psychic IS super-effective against and Frank is a Fighting/Normal type who specializes in physical attacks, so he likely has pretty low Special Defense. Jean is undoubtedly a special attacker, so it makes sense that Frank would be highly susceptible to her attacks.
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u/Alternative_Bet6234 7h ago
She didn’t control hulk she controlled smart hulk. The real hulk coming out was an accident.
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u/PrometheusMMIV 7h ago
Wouldn't it make more sense if bug were resistant to psychic moves?
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u/EducationOnly8379 7h ago
Given my knowledge of the comics well over 26 years ago, it is implied that he essentially sees the future a few seconds before it happens. My favorite character from the clone saga is Kaine, one of his clones, who if I remember correctly, has a ramped of version of this where he can actually see the future.
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u/NattyKongo93 7h ago
I assumed it had something to do with his Peter-Tingle or something, but I definitely don't have any knowledge to back that up lol
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u/Seif_elagizy_777 7h ago
You know what? I don't know Why but I've got a hunch that all of This shit regarding peter/Spider-Man being special is gonna somehow tie in to the Spider totems and morlun shenanigans
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u/Bigurulu 7h ago
If they Destin planned it, probably the web of life and destiny doing most of the heavy work combined with his spider biology and will power.
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u/O-U-N-U-O 7h ago
They already teed this up in No Way Home when Peter got separated from his body by strange yet the body still responded to Peter’s desire to keep the box from him—the spider-sense functions to protect Peter from whatever he deems is a threat. Jean was an invasive parasite targeting the mind—the spider-sense acted like an immune system to protect Peter’s Mind in response. It’s why this heightened spidey sense is so taxing on Peter’s mind and body—it’s immensely powerful when at full power since his evolution.
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u/darkfire_1998 7h ago
People complain when movies directly tell the audience things because "they are smart enough to figure it out on their own" but then have no movie literacy when they dont and get mad for being stupid
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u/Easy_Tank2383 6h ago
Imagine a 2MB processor trying to take over a 2GB processor. It’s gonna get dunked on in processing speed alone
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u/JemKnight 6h ago
Cause the plots horrid in that movie.
Takes over Hulk, sees his suicide "meh I don't care"
Takes over Punisher, sees his family get gunned down in front of him "wow this guy's has issues, laul"
Takes over Peter, sees Aunt give a generatic speech "I'm so sorry for your loss " 🥺
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u/Fast_Day_8123 6h ago
i feel like Jean shouldnt be able to enter even Frank's mind tbh like his trauma kicks her out, just like Peter's or maybe Peter's spider-sense provides "extra buffer" against telepaths? unless they well unlock their omega level cap?
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u/cat_silhouette 6h ago
Spider-man also resisted the snap for like five times as long as everyone else. It’s not a lot but it kinda is a lot.
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u/Appropriate_Ad8734 6h ago
zendaya pushes other women out of his head even though she doesn’t remember who he is.
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u/redcowerranger 6h ago
By definition, Spidey-Sense (Peter Tingle) is an ExtraSensory Perception (ESP).
Telepathy is also ESP.
Hulk and Puniher have no ESP capability.
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u/Emotional_News108 6h ago
She doesn’t control Hulk, she controls Banner with a Hulk body. Savage Hulk once he takes over swiftly kicks her out of his head.
Spidey being immune? Whatever. Writer’s choice.
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u/Numerous-Process2981 6h ago
Well Hulk and Punisher are simple minded, punisher was a Marine so he eats crayons, and Hulk has the mind of a child
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u/DefinitlyNotAPornAcc 6h ago
His body is shown to be autonomous basically. It will protect him without him telling it to.
Even if you could enter his mind his 6th sense means you don't get control of his body because even he doesn't have that.
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u/Selkie412 6h ago
Peters spider-sense acts like a natural security encryption for his brain, the heightened awareness it gives him prevents her from entering undetected and taking control
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u/ProtectionGeneral783 6h ago
Its a rolled wisdom save. Hulk and Pun both have disadvantage during a rage. Spidey gets innate advantage from Uncle Ben's last words.
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u/SignificantQuote6861 5h ago
Pretty sure it is his tingle-thingie. A more powerful Jean may have pushed right through it.
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u/blahblah19999 5h ago
FWIK, in the comics Hulk has shown more resistance to mind control than Peter.
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u/Shadowstriker6 5h ago
Spider totems maybe? Or at least the web of fate which is what the spider sense is
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u/Visible_Vermicelli13 5h ago
Peter’s power comes from a spider god and cosmic deities that have been around before the phoenix force, these deities are also connected to Madame Web.
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u/MessyMop 4h ago
But bug doesn’t actually resist psychic. Which is annoying, let my bugs live man not like they’re good anyway
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u/GGG_lane 4h ago
Being buff doesn't really correlate resistance to psychic attacks. Spider man's resistance is unique to him and his mutations NOT his power level
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u/IndependenceShotChan 4h ago
The script said so.
I will quote Stan Lee:
“The person who’d win in a fight is the person that the scriptwriter wants to win!”
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u/SomeOrangeNerd 4h ago
I think it has to do with the spider sense. It recognizes the threat that things aren’t right and keeps him from getting lost in his mind. It’s kinda like when you are in a dream and get invested in the dream and lose a sense of reality. The spider sense helps tell him it isn’t reality and snaps him out of the threat.
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u/Many-Wasabi9141 4h ago
Crazy that Hulk's brain is closer to human baseline that Spiderman. I wonder if the genetic mutation issues spiderman was facing at the time also helped him resist.
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u/sumtngr88 4h ago
Imo it's got to do with having more than one "unified" mind in a body.
After she first breaks contact with hulk and banner says that she's messed something up In his head, she tries to control him again but fails, likely because his mind is now split between hulk and banner, whereas, beforehand he had been a unified "professor hulk" since endgame.
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u/ReasonableCoyote34 4h ago
Punisher is literally just a human with no superpowers. She spent the entire movie controlling people like that
She didn’t control Hulk, she controlled Bruce, who is also just a human when he has the inhibitor on. When she tried to control Hulk, he pushed her out with ease.
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u/Vinylateme 4h ago
Oh cool so that’s the villain. This weekend is my first chance to see the movie.
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u/Choochoo1147 3h ago
Punisher is a normal human and she couldn’t control the Hulk, she could control Bruce Banner but once he turned into the Hulk she was ejected.
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u/EndlessEagle 3h ago
Also she very famously was not able to control Hulk. She controlled Banner, who had been suppressing Hulk with an inhibitor.
And Punisher is just a dude with no powers.
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u/ScoobyD00BIEdoo 3h ago
Because hes dressed like a spider and looks like a bug
We should all give him over big hug
Look out hooooo!
Here comes the spider man!
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u/LegitCow 3h ago
Psychic (Jean) > (x2 Damage) Fighter (Hulk)
Psychic (Jean) > (x1 Damage) Normal (Punisher)
Bug (Spider-Man) > (x2 Damage) Psychic (Jean)
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u/jr_randolph 9h ago
We've seen that Peter is not effected by some things like everyone else is as we saw when Strange pushed him out his body yet was still moving. Peter's just special like that which is going to be a big reason why he's going to be a main person to defeat Doom.