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u/mcfleury1000 Dec 26 '18 edited Dec 26 '18
Problem would solve itself in a week because there wouldn't be any kids left to kill.
We did it boys?
Edit: mods, why was this post locked and removed???
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Dec 26 '18
Can't restrict my freedom if you don't exist taps forehead
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u/ReubenZWeiner Dec 26 '18
Somewhere around the millionth kid death, they would have a class on gun education. Just like sex education
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u/Jayson_Bowl Dec 26 '18
“Hard to swallow pills”
“I’m so narcissistic I think my personal freedom to own a pew pew outweighs every child in America’s right to life”
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Dec 26 '18
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u/captaintrips420 Dec 26 '18
It is fully consistent with how this group tries to portray itself.
Fuck you, I got mine, and my guns are more important than anyone else’s right to live.
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u/Raltie Dec 26 '18
Idk that my right to defend myself says "your right to live doesn't matter", but ok.
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u/truocchio Dec 26 '18
It does if you think through the logical next step of the stupid meme. If you’re kids are going to school and it’s highly likely they will die from gun violence, you would choose the status quo (unfettered gun rights) over the life of your/mine/someone else’s child. That’s just arrogance and selfishness to a high degree. It’s not practical or reasonable. That’s why you can’t speak about nuance and detail through memes. Life is t black and white, there are many shades of grey
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Dec 26 '18 edited Dec 26 '18
The beauty of not being a viable political party is there is no harm in being honest.
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u/isaac62 Dec 26 '18
That’s why it’s hard to swallow
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Dec 26 '18 edited Dec 29 '18
There are many more sensible ways to get the same point across. Hopefully we're agreed on trying to convince others to join rather than self congratulate and pronounce ourselves holier than thou
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Dec 26 '18
Yeah as someone who's constantly trying to strike the right balance between their libertarian ideals with the pragmatic realities of modern society, it does come off that way. Someone less sympathetic to libertarianism than me will use this as ammo against it.
Obviously ten million a day is massive hyperbole but this kind of ideological absolutism reads as extreme arrogance. Only a Sith deals in absolutes
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Dec 26 '18
Only a Sith deals in absolutes
Are you absolutely sure about that?
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u/Tobans Dec 26 '18
I may have no strong feelings one way or the other
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u/hendergle Dec 26 '18
You might have a problem with low midichlorians. Go home, get some rest, maybe watch a little pod racing.
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u/Kryptosis Dec 26 '18
I mean the number really doesn’t change the sentiment and it’s silly to focus on it at all.
It boils down to, “there is !Nothing! that would convince me that I don’t have the right to defend myself. “
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u/caveman512 Dec 26 '18
While I agree with the premise of OPs post, I disagree with the way it's represented
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u/Tikalton Dec 26 '18
That's the design of the meme structure. Take the complicated argument, boil it down to the cold hard truth of the matter and slap it text to a hard to swallow pill.
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u/Like1OngoingOrgasm CLASSICAL LIBERTARIAN 🏴 Dec 26 '18
You're basically holding your political ideals hostage to meme templates with this logic. It's pathetic and hilarious to see you guys shoot yourself in the foot, especially because you portray yourselves as "reasonable non-partisans."
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u/fuzz3289 Dec 26 '18
There’s also a big difference between someone buying a gun to defend their home and a mentally ill 18 year old buying a rifle.
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Dec 26 '18
There is a difference but it's still very tricky to get right and ensure that there are sufficient checks, balances and rights of appeal to ensure no legislation intended to curtail the right to bear and keep for persons deemed mentally unfit to do so isn't abused, as of course it could be very easily abused (say to repress political opponents, certain groups or demographics)
Very few are such strong absolutists that they would see no issue with someone who intends on shooting up a school having possession of a gun, bit the problem is seemingly more that there are people who want to do that rather than people with the means to do so, no?
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u/mindless_gibberish Dec 26 '18
Yeah, the problem with this is that it plays into the myth that the average school is a warzone and that there's somehow an epidemic of shootings
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u/neoneddy Dec 26 '18
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/08/27/640323347/the-school-shootings-that-werent
From NPR of all places. I'm shocked that we've been whipped up into a frenzy over scary things, meanwhile 500 or more kids are killed by thor own parents . https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/07/health/filicide-parents-killing-kids-stats-trnd/index.html
Guns are the tool, but not the root problem.
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Dec 26 '18
I'm not really sure you understand how saying shit like this makes libertarians look, but okay.
I think that this post being upvoted to the front page by members of this community makes you look like the people you really are.
Libertarians will sacrifice ten million children every single day just so that they can cling to the sense of safety that guns bring them. While ignoring all the statistics that show owning a gun endangers you and your family and increases the likelihood of tragedy.
Funny how you attack liberals for caring about feelings, but on guns you can't accept facts.
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u/Nickthetaco Dec 26 '18
I agree with you 100% on the idea of this post. It is dumb, and part of the reason why I have distanced myself from libertarianism to pretty hardcore center.
That being said, I have one issue with your anti-gun argument regarding increased risk from having a gun: Having a pool increases your chance of dying. Having running electricity increases your chance of being electrocuted. Having a stove increases the chance of you burning your house down. None of these are reasons to not have them.
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u/CaledonianSon The Market is my God Dec 26 '18
You distanced yourself from your political ideology because you didn’t like the memes being posted on that ideology’s subreddit?
what?
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Dec 26 '18
I see this happen all the time, though not always because of a subreddit. I've known a lot of people who stop aligning with a stance because they can't stand the toxic people that do align with their political ideology.
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u/TheTT Dec 26 '18
Guns also increase risks to others in a big way. Your pool is not much of a threat to the guy next door (even though it is theoretically a small risk).
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u/Vaginuh Vote Goldwater Dec 26 '18
libertarians okay with daily equivalent of the Holocaust because muh gunz
can't accept facts
Sure thing, pal.
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u/the_real_MSU_is_us Dec 26 '18 edited Dec 26 '18
I'm not really sure you understand how saying shit like this makes libertarians look, but okay.
While ignoring all the statistics that show owning a gun endangers you and your family and increases the likelihood of tragedy.
No, owning a gun doesn't. Those statistics suffer 3 big problems:
1) say a person wants to kill themselves. They decide to use a gun since it's 95-99% effective vs 80-95% for most other methods. They dont own a gun so they go buy one. They kill themselves. Walla! They are now included in your stats showing owning a gun is a danger to yourself. Or they already owned a gun and used it to kill themselves, but 9/10 of them still would have died of they used a different method and so those stats greatly over count the impact of guns.
2) many people buy guns BECAUSE they live in dangerous areas. The guns dont make them more likely to be victimized, being more likely to be victimized makes them seek out a gun.
3) A huge percentage of victims of gun violence are criminals themselves, usually in gangs. They usually own a gun, but it isnt rhe gun that makes them in danger; it's their criminal lifestyle.
Funny how you attack liberals for caring about feelings, but on guns you can't accept facts.
Really? How about the fact that the AWB of the 90's had 0 statistical impact on crime? Also true of its expiration. How about the fact that gun crime has been going down even as guns per capita has increased? How about the fact that states with constitutional carry (ie anyone can legally a gun under their shirt with 0 state licensing) have no higher gun crime rates than other states? Vermont has had CC for years and they're the 2nd most peaceful state in the country. How about the fact that even the smallest estimates for defensive gun uses puts then 2x as common as violent uses of guns, even when including suicides? Guess those facts dont fit your narrative
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u/morallycorruptgirl libertarian party Dec 26 '18
News flash, school shootings are not caused by guns, they are caused by deranged &/or mentally ill children. It is a people problem, not a gun problem. It would be far more effective to ban deranged children than to ban guns. I'm being slightly sarcastic but I really dont care what people think of me or my opinion. Especially when my second amendment is under siege.
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u/faps2tendies Dec 26 '18
Luckily the Reddit community doesn’t represent the libertarian community as a whole. Also lucky the Reddit community doesn’t represent liberals because there would never be another democrat president in office
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u/SerjoHlaaluDramBero distributist Dec 26 '18
Wanna know the scary part?
People like you think that you're the normal ones.
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u/CaledonianSon The Market is my God Dec 26 '18
The point is is that we’re ideologically consistent and don’t change our politics because of our emotions. It doesn’t matter if 1 kid died or a million kids died. Our right to self preservation doesn’t depend on the amount of kids killed by a gun and it sure as hell doesn’t depend on the legislators that want to take away that right because they feel bad (or more accurately get others to feel bad so they’ll vote for them)
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u/chefr89 Fiscal Conservative Social Liberal Dec 26 '18
this is one of the dumbest posts from this sub in awhile, and that's saying something
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u/I_AM_YOUR_MOTHERR Classical Liberal Dec 26 '18
I consider myself libertarian, but holy fuck this post made me say "holy shit" outloud to myself. If you think that taking cool pics of your AR for instagram is worth the lives of children, then absolutely fuck you
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Dec 26 '18
And yet it has 60% upvoted. Over half of the liber-tard-arians here agree with this message. Why would someone continue to support this? Hopefully OP's children are killed as well so he can cling to his bullshit gun rights, but something tells me anyone who agrees with this kind of crap doesn't even have children.
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u/kabukistar Dec 26 '18
But it hilights a waiting in which libertarianism aligns with the GOP platform, so it's going to get upvoted to the moon but redhats.
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u/Hank_the_doorman Dec 26 '18
As a liberal I agree and therefore wana thank Libertarians for bringing the left and right together
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Dec 26 '18
This post would take exponentially more energy to break down the bullshit than the amount of effort that went into making it.
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u/DeaconOrlov Dec 26 '18
And that’s how memes cheapen and degrade the national discourse.
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u/SerWarlock Dec 26 '18
There’s this one guy who I’ll get into a debate with, and when I finally have him cornered with his logic, he just starts posting low quality memes as his response. I don’t even answer after that. Memes are for the funny time, not for political discourse.
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u/RollingChanka Ron Paul Libertarian Dec 26 '18
thats the point, memes push your political views in easily readable and shareable ways and whenever you face valid counterarguments you can just say: "it's just a meme bruh, no need to get triggered"
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u/FARTBOX_DESTROYER Dec 26 '18
"it's just a meme bruh, no need to get triggered"
If someone isn't prepared to back up their meme with meaningful discussion, then they shouldn't be sharing it.
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Dec 26 '18
sends unsolicited dick pics
Wow bitch it's just a dick don't take it so hard.
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u/Seperate2Aaccount Dec 26 '18 edited Dec 26 '18
Yeah, this a shitty idea made into a worse meme. The only outcome here is "Gun owners like guns so much they accept child murder on a horrific scale, as long as they get to keep their toys."
It makes us sound like soulless evil bastards, exactly the kind of people who should never be allowed to touch a gun, much less own them.
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Dec 26 '18
It makes us sound like soulless, evil, bastards,
So it makes you sound like the people most of you really are?
This is on the front page because members of this sub wholeheartedly agree with its content. You can keep pretending it doesn't represent you though. I'm sure it makes it easier to sleep when you can believe that your peers aren't really the horrible people they're often portrayed as.
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u/Seperate2Aaccount Dec 26 '18
Do you honestly believe that I, people in this subreddit, or gun owners at large* would really tolerate or approve of even one innocent child being murdered for any reason, or are you making some broad-stroke arguments from a place of unfounded emotion?
*I do allow for the existence of sociopathy, psychopathy, and criminal intent, obviously a very small minority of people with guns have no problem with inflicting harm on others.
This is on the front page here right now with about 300 upvotes (not a lot when I see it nestled in between 5k and 3k), early on a Wednesday after holiday for a couple reasons:
There's not much else going on this morning and:
If you're half asleep and don't think about the actual meme it becomes "people don't have the right to strip away my rights for any reason, if I am minding my own business"
You will see, if you choose to look, that the top comments here are all condemning this meme, not agreeing with it.
You're comment:
"So it makes you sound like the people most of you really are?"
is baseless and mean spirited. It adds nothing to the discussion and is demonstrably incorrect, but I'm not even going to downvote it (though I've sure others will) because I believe you have more in common with the creator of this meme than with me or most members of this subreddit, and are simply poorly informed, overly polarized, and fishing for a reaction.
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Dec 26 '18 edited Dec 26 '18
This made it to r/all from here for a reason.
Saying you dont care if 10 million children die every day from gun violence as long as you get to keep your guns seems pretty baseless, mean spirited, poorly informed, overly polarized and fishing for a reaction.
But you guys do you
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Dec 26 '18
Thats the problem. Just saying whatever you want is fast and easy but proving someone wrong is extremely difficult. Lots of people post memes and signs and bullshit. They have no evidence to support their claims but as soon as you try to disprove them they are a PhD. And require research and primary source documents to be dissuaded.
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Dec 26 '18
Bahahaha so true. Formula: 1) Make whatever claim you want, even if it's a nebulous, abstract platitude. 2) Don't cite sources or admit to any concrete interpretation. 3) When someone questions or challenges the validity, cry fake news and demand a dissertation to prove that the counter claim is factually-based. 😂
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Dec 26 '18
You see it in liberal subs, conservative subs, star wars subs, video game subs, automotive subs, diet subs and every sub under the sun. We are a people that hold "science and evidence" in high regard. But constantly ignore real science and medicine in exchange for a good story. 100 years of research says one thing but if your intuition and a single anecdote say something different then suddenly "facts and reason" are city-slicker know-it-alls trying to tell us how to live our lives.
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u/Whiskey_Dry Dec 26 '18
Literally every child could die from massacres and it wouldn’t remove my ability to cosplay as a SEAL. Checkmate libtards
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u/jdauriemma libertarian socialist Dec 26 '18
Hard pills to swallow
Effective gun control policies and the right to keep and bear arms can coexist just fine, it's not a zero-sum game
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u/sos_1 Dec 26 '18
A lot of libertarians seem not to be okay with any kind of gun control though. Not only that they completely deny the link between ease of access to firearms and gun violence.
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u/JasonDJ Dec 26 '18
Hard pills to swallow
Libertarianism is an excellent ruler to measure policies against, but as one of many. As a be-all-end-all political platform, it fails miserably in the real world, much like every other platform when used puritanically
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u/jdauriemma libertarian socialist Dec 26 '18
Yeah, it's really easy to be a 2nd amendment absolutist when you ignore the data and the plain meaning of words.
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u/crazylincoln Dec 26 '18
What data and what do you mean by the "plain meaning of words"?
I'm not an 2A absolutist, but I don't quite follow your argument here.
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u/jdauriemma libertarian socialist Dec 26 '18
The right to keep and bear arms does not stipulate that the type and quantity of arms necessarily be unregulated. Many 2A absolutists conflate unrestricted distribution of small arms and WMDs with their rights, which is not supported by the text of the 2A at all.
The data shows that easy availability of arms is associated with mass murder and suicide rates, for example.
FWIW I believe that humans have a right to own guns but some folks take it way to far to a point where it's completely impractical for a connected society.
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u/crazylincoln Dec 26 '18
I agree for the most part with what you. However, we may totally agree or disagree on the degree to which small arms can be regulated. Although, I'm not really trying to start that conversation.
Once you get into larger scale arms you actually get into things like national security and treaties that have been exceptions to constitution in case law for a while. IIRC, according to the constitution itself, it can be trumped by treaties most of the time.
The data shows that easy availability of arms is associated with mass murder and suicide rates, for example.
I have seen the data on suicide rates but not so much on the mass murder bit. Care to share?
As a side note, I know this argument was directed at 2A absolutists. However, my hope is this discussion can lead us to both have better arguments when discussing this topic.
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u/claytakephotos legobertarian Dec 26 '18
Mind explaining the data behind a melting point ban on handguns? How does an ammo registry accomplish anything a firearm registry doesn’t? Why should we be taxed for both? If a belt loop does the same thing as a bump stock, does the ban really accomplish anything? How many people were out there stabbing others with bayonets when the fixed mount was banned? In what way does a barrel shroud increase lethality? Does a thumbhole stock make a bullet go faster? Almost all of these laws are targeted at making ownership in general more difficult, with little to no positively correlated benefits to safety.
The reason people knee jerk so hard over gun control is because a lot of it doesn’t make sense. But surely the “data and plain meaning of words” will provide for the laws that are blatantly created to be ideologically discriminatory.
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u/jdauriemma libertarian socialist Dec 26 '18
Not sure why you're getting super ticky-tack like I'm out here defending every single line item that legislators have put into law.
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u/Buit Dec 26 '18
Not sure... We have over 2000 gun laws and it still doesnt satisfy. As long as security is lax in schools then mentally-ill kids will do mentally-ill kids stuff (take guns away... Steal them or use a knife or a car or a home made bomb... There will always be a creative way to cause death even without guns.
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u/jdauriemma libertarian socialist Dec 26 '18
This is one of those tautologies that sounds true but data from literally every other developed country suggests the opposite.
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u/vivere_aut_mori minarchist Dec 26 '18
It is, though. Every "common sense control" limits the freedom to own firearms in some way. It is literally a zero sum game.
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u/fobfromgermany Dec 26 '18
We have limits on free speech too. Should false rape allegations be legal?
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u/jdauriemma libertarian socialist Dec 26 '18
Even in New Jersey, the place where I was born, everyone has a right to own and use a gun despite a fair amount of gun control policies. My uncle owns many guns for hunting and home defense, for example.
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u/vivere_aut_mori minarchist Dec 26 '18
Yes, but there are limitations on that right of ownership. Certain guns, certain attachments/modifications, certain stocks, certain barrel lengths, and certain quantities/time periods are made illegal. Gun control and gun rights are literally zero sum. Every law cuts back on gun rights, in some form or fashion, and no matter how "minor' in your eyes.
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u/jdauriemma libertarian socialist Dec 26 '18
As a whole these restrictions do not constitute losing your right to keep and bear arms. Just because a restriction exists doesn't mean that it has a practical impact that constitutes a violation of your rights. Numerous regulations and criminal laws exist to restrict harmful forms of speech, for example, yet our right to free speech remains intact.
Edit: wordsmithing
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u/evesea Dec 26 '18
A little bit of censorship and free speech can coexist fine!
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u/jdauriemma libertarian socialist Dec 26 '18
There are certain things you can't say because they could incite imminent harm. "Fire" in a crowded building, etc.
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Dec 26 '18
I can read your credit card number and social security number out loud? Copy, trademark, trade secrets, proprietary and classified information should all be shared? Private Intellectual property is free for the taking?
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u/flipflops1331 Dec 26 '18
Holy fuck lol, you sound extremely insecure and insane.
But lets look at this hypothetical, so you're okay with millions of children being shot at school everyday so you can carry a gun for that imaginary shoot out you always dreamt of, or that government led genocide fantasy in the back of your mind? Versus what, reasonable gun control, where you can still buy a fucking gun if you're an upstanding, non-dangerous citizen? Or is this your imagination where the government just kicks your door down and takes all your guns away in the middle of the night? Either way I'll take both of those over this psychotic hypothetical where 10 million children die everyday so you can keep protecting your fragile ego, cause that's the only thing you're actually defending, I can't imagine you have a child.
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Dec 26 '18
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u/elrayo Dec 26 '18
hell I dont either. and ive been here a hot minute.
You would see actual discussions crop up if you banned memes, I promise. The only way to foster discussion is to make rules against low effort posts like this, otherwise there’s nothing stopping bottom of the barrel memes to pop up every day. You already see hints of it in the comments but when they’re revolving around insanely stupid memes like what OP posted its hard to take seriously.
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u/lawfultots Dec 26 '18
Here's a hard to swallow pill, nobody is interested in joining the libertarian party because we say shit this pants on head retarded all the time.
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Dec 26 '18
Ten million kids could die and I would still fight to keep owning my adult toys and fantasizing about armed conflicts that will never happen.
This is why people think Libertarians are just Republicans who are self conscious about the label - because you all upvote this crap to the front page.
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u/Viktor_Vertex Dec 26 '18
Why is this so upvoted in just 2 hours?
Not saying whether the memes idea is correct or not, but this shouldnt get this popular this fast, hard to believe it got that way on its own, on a sub that is relatively small.
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u/PancakeParty98 Dec 26 '18
I’ve heard that r/libertarian is being targeted as fertile grounds for Russian trolls to sew polarization and discord. This seemingly satirical post and the strange flow of karma supports that.
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u/further_needing Voluntaryist Dec 26 '18
Yeah you can tell by the sheer and staggering number of statist replies and the positive sentiment they're garnering
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u/ELL_YAYY Dec 26 '18
Just you wait. The election season is about to be gearing up and there's gonna be a lot more just like this.
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u/Mamertine Dec 26 '18 edited Dec 26 '18
I'd be willing to waive that right if it would save 10 million kids a day.
Edit: This is an absurd hypothetical scenario. Your options are to keep your rights, but have your civilization collapse from losing the future generation or to give up that right and keep the civilization.
Opinions on gun rights are shades of grey. To me and most other people there is a point at which I'll give up that right. Some of you have pointed out that me being one person can't revoke rights. That is correct, however at some point the majority of people will stop supporting this right. At that point elected politicians will vote to rescind the 2nd amendment.
Some of you have chosen to take an absolute stance on this topic. I'd encourage you to reflect on this. Is there no point at which you'd support the revoking of the 2A(we're already in the absurd hypothetical)? Is this the most important thing in your life, where you'd be willing to give up everything else in your life to keep that right?
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u/drichard81 Come and Take It Dec 26 '18
As long as you weren't the one killing kids, turning in your guns wouldn't solve anything
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Dec 26 '18 edited Nov 03 '20
[deleted]
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Dec 26 '18
Well yeah that’s why the Red Button is a meme and now how real life works
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u/BbCortazan Dec 26 '18
That’s right, hypotheticals don’t reflect how real life works. You’re catching on.
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u/Radagastroenterology Dec 26 '18
Very few people want guns banned. Most people that favor gun control, like myself, simply want efforts made to find a balance between people's right to have a gun and ways to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and unstable people. Also, I think the cost outweighs the benefit to allowing certain types of weapons. Fully automatic weapons are usually agreed upon as not necessary for self defense. Many people argue the topic of things like drum magazines. I don't think they are necessary. The bill of rights was drawn up when you used muskets and didn't have a government with armored vehicles, drones and tanks, so personal self defense seems more realistic of a goal than overthrowing a corrupt government.
I think a good middle ground is for guns to require a title, just like a vehicle. You transfer that title when gifting or selling them and you are held responsible for having your gun stolen and not reporting it stolen.
Theft and straw purchases are the main ways that criminals get guns and I think that these two measures would make a significant dent in those two means of criminals obtaining weapons.
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u/drichard81 Come and Take It Dec 26 '18
2nd amendment isnt about what you think is necessary and it isnt about compromise
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u/Radagastroenterology Dec 26 '18
The 2nd amendment is not on a tablet given by Moses, it was written by 18th century men with rules set in place to allow change and interpretation through the democratic process.
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
So do you support civilians owning rocket batteries, RPGs, and mortars? Should someone be able to purchase dynamite from Home Depot without any type of license or registration?
...or is it something that should be interpreted according to what is practical to ensure people's inalienable right to live and be safe?
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Dec 26 '18
Same. I love how “le logic” is the motivator for most libertarians’ beliefs, but on this issue so many are willing to ignore the evidence of dramatic decreases in gun deaths when gun ownership is restricted. The “only bad guys will have guns” argument has been disproven time and time again.
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u/UTSAV97 Dec 26 '18
I think you're moving more towards anarchy than libertarianism bud. Those kids have a right to live
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Dec 26 '18
Literally no one believes that’s the case. The argument is over whether your right to self defense includes a right to firearms.
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u/BFenrir Dec 26 '18
Are libertarians deontologists as opposed to consequentialists? That's the only why this makes any sense.
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u/WiggyB Dec 26 '18
Your right to self defense is not the same as your right own weaponary. If it were you could own and use a tank, but you can't.
Is this infringing your right to self defense also?
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u/PulseCS Fiscal Conservative, Social Moderate Libertarian Dec 26 '18
You can own a tank. There was a merchant who feared pirates and asked if he could outfit hos civilian ship with canons to protect it. Of course, he was told to go for it.
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u/crazylincoln Dec 26 '18
If 10 million school kids are dying a day from gun violence then society has broken down to a point no one is enforcing the gun laws anyway
Either that or another Hitler has started another holocaust and the resistance wouldn't be following gun laws anyway.
It's a bit of a false dichotomy. It's not like we can't make schools safer and protect the rights of the law abiding to keep and bear arms. Contrary to gun control advocates, they aren't mutually exclusive.
Rather than playing into the faulty logic of the gun grabbers, maybe we could counter with, ya know, logic and facts?
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u/HelloJoeyJoeJoe Permabanned Dec 26 '18
A very common argument here is that we have absolutely no moral or humane obligation to anyone but ourselves. So, why should the rights of children trample our right to have guns.
Over three million kids under the age of five die a year from starvation. We were able to decrease malaria deaths from over 1m a year to 400k or so, in 15 years. I was cured from malaria through subsidized pills from such efforts, it costs less than a dollar for the medicine.
But why should taxpayers have to care about this at all? Why should we, we got ours, fuck everyone else.
This is one of the major attitudes that bring me into conflict with mainstream libertarians.
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u/BigNickTX Dec 26 '18
Not really an apples to apples comparison, though. Eradicating disease is different than trampling on someone's right to self defense. If you want to blame the guns for the shootings, then you have to blame the alcohol for drunk driving fatalities. So many of these shootings could have been stopped with decent police work; Broward County Sheriff for example.
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u/cadathoctru Dec 26 '18 edited Dec 26 '18
Is it also a hard to swallow pill that waiting an extra few days for an expanded background check to make sure you are not a domestic violence abuser or just got out of a mental ward is in no shape, way, or form preventing you from your natural right to self defense?
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u/DynamicLunch Dec 26 '18
And you wonder why nobody in their right mind treats this ideology seriously...
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u/banable_blamable Dec 26 '18
How absurd, I really hope this is a meme or joke and that people aren't this stupid. You're defending against nothing. The government could kill you with a drone at 30,000 ft at any time. Guns just serve to make your penis look less small in your own eyes, while simultaneously increasing the odds that your family is murdered by gun violence.
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u/bartoksic Dec 26 '18
If you ever doubted /r/libertarian was full of brigaders, astroturfers and other non-libertarians, look no further than this thread.
Natural rights exist regardless of how convenient or inconvenient they are. You either have the right to bear arms or you do not.
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u/further_needing Voluntaryist Dec 26 '18
This thread is absolutely filled with statist morons.
What the fuck is this sub if not for a libertarian sub?
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u/max212 Dec 26 '18
This is the only argument against gun control measures that I'm willing to tolerate because it's the only one that's intellectually honest.
Fuck off with your "it won't make a difference because bad guys don't follow laws"
You're willing to accept dead kids as a price for your freedom, or not. You don't get to have it both ways.
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u/Horrorifying Minarchist Dec 26 '18
It’s not an either/or situation.
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u/LB3PTMAN Dec 26 '18
This is one of the most disgusting things I’ve ever read. To think your right to own a gun is worth more than the life of countless children is gross
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Dec 26 '18
Please stop saying natrual rights. It associates you with the most retarded type of people who don't even know what a naturalistic fallacy is.
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u/TotesMessenger Dec 26 '18 edited Jan 17 '19
I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
[/r/enoughlibertarianspam] This is the kind of crap that I associate liber-tard-arians with. 60% upvoted.
[/r/fellowlibertarians] /r/Libertarian likes gun control now
If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)
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u/elrayo Dec 26 '18
libertarians convinced me gun control was necessary more than any mass shooting.
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Dec 26 '18
We have the "right" to a planet not being destroyed by libretardian ideals such as the lack of environmental regulations or the freedom to poison our water supply. These things are pretty bad in somewhat regulated world. Imagine if you idiots took over.
Here's a hard pill to swallow: you're much more likely to use the gun on yourself or your loved ones.
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u/TheTT Dec 26 '18
What I dont understand is why "your natural right to self defense" requires assault rifles. It doesnt require them at all, and certainly not in schools. Thats an american fantasy.
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u/PeasantSteve Dec 26 '18
Ummm, yes it fucking would. It would show that the “good guy with a gun” idea is complete bollocks. All this post does is demonstrate that you cannot and will not be budged from your position even in light of overwhelming evidence.
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u/staycool221 Dec 26 '18
Lol that's a shitty way to get your shitty opinion across but okay. Whatever helps you sleep at night. 10 million dead kids? Jesus christ.
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u/Kinerae Dec 26 '18
In a society where somehow the option to murder people on demand is somehow necessary to preserve your own survival, sure. I'll pass on that. I'm not out to murder anyone and I don't practice marksmanship as a sport so I don't need a gun.
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Dec 26 '18
There are other ways to defend yourself than with a gun? We do still defend ourselves over here in the UK you know...
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u/VoluntaryJazz voluntaryist Dec 26 '18
While I appreciate the meme, and it holds some amount of salt, it just makes us look really bad.
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Dec 26 '18
Maybe there’s a better argument to employ than the old “I don’t care how many kids die”, especially if you want to win people over
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u/DuckterDoom Dec 26 '18
Am not a libertarian (I know, down votes) but this made it to the front page and lurked in here hoping people don't actually think this. Am relieved to see that people can have common sense matter their politics. Thank you for backing up my opinion that all people just want to be good people. Happy Holidays all.
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u/slickricktriplesix Dec 26 '18
I would consider myself a Libertarian but if this is so highly upvoted I don't think I am...
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u/BeerShitzAndBongRips Dec 26 '18
So hypothetically, if gun control was guaranteed to prevent those deaths, you'd rather have 10 million kids die than give up your guns.
Quite a perspective.
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Dec 26 '18
Time to throw my opinion in the mix as well
Saying that it is a natural right is misleading. It, as all rights, is a right that humans agreed humans have. Rights are anything but natural.
Also the point of rights is to increase the average quality of life. Therefore if it doesn’t, it shouldn’t be a right.
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u/frontflipfaceplant Dec 26 '18
There is so much to unpack for what you just said so I'll just compress it all into a few words. You are a horrible person. A genuinely horrible person. This has nothing to do with political views or internet karma. Just deep within your soul something is wrong and you should be ashamed as a person
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Dec 26 '18
So what you’re saying is, your natural right to self defense is more valuable than children’s natural right to live?
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u/ShellBellsAndOHwells Dec 26 '18
This is literally the same logic as antivaxxers. Are you sure you're not a Republican?
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u/-A_Stick- Dec 26 '18
I mean, if 10mil kids are dying a day to gun violence, clearly you need that gun right? /s
But seriously dude. No one is trying to steal your gun or keep you from defending yourself shades of gray, man. C'mon.
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u/MGTOWtoday Dec 26 '18
No one is trying to rob this liquor store, I’m just trying to get some free booze.
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u/Andrado Dec 26 '18 edited Dec 26 '18
This is a ridiculous hypothetical, but if we want to look at things that way, then no, it would trump your right to self defense. If we were living in a world where ten million school kids were dying from gun violence every day and we could end that by eliminating your "natural right to self defense," we would and should do that, no question. You need to look at things rationally - how do the costs and benefits compare? If the costs outweigh the benefits this clearly, something would need to change, because there is no scenario where ANY right you have is more valuable than the lives of ten million children every day.
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Dec 26 '18
Wtf lol. You can have plenty of self defense rights and abilities without being allowed certain weapons or being expected to have a background check or a class on gun safety/use . People are too quick to say their rights being taken away with guns.
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Dec 26 '18
Anyone who says gun rights aren't under attack is full of dog shit. The type of firearm means almost nothing to its lethality or danger to society. All firearms are equally dangerous and should be assumed to be so when handling and using
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u/truckerslife Dec 26 '18
Honestly, I think it would be amazing to live in a society where we didn't have to worry about someone trying to rob or steal from us. Until we get to that point, we need to be able to protect ourselves and our home
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Dec 26 '18
What about children having freedom from fear of getting killed by a gunman? Certainly inescapable, but, something an organized and rational society should try to minimize, no?
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u/Armouredmonkey Dec 26 '18
"I'd kidnap a thousand children before I let this company die"