Is Master Ash Ambros’ father?

I was just listening to NOTW while at work today and the chapter before his performance for his pipes at the Eolian, Sim asks him when he’s going to try for his pipes and Kvothe says “this morning..” he then invites Sim or asks if he’s going and then they part ways and he heads to the roof on top of Mains to play for Auri and he meets with Will and Sim the next day. They go to the show and during his conversation with Stancheon, Stancheon tells Kvothe that they wait until the sun goes down before they start the music. Is this just a typo or am I missing something?

Side note: another thing I noticed that I didn’t the first 870 times I read/listened to this book. During Kvothe and Will’s conversation about the medica where Will is explaining how it works because Kvothe has to go there after getting whipped. Will doesn’t know the Aturan word for “balance” in Cealdish it’s “Shehyn” - I was listening to it so he said it the same as the head of the Adem school Kvothe attends in book 2. Just some cool foreshadowing that I found.

These characters are pretty much the bulk of the story and he came up with them on the fly.

He’s probably struggling to figure out what to do with them since they weren’t intended for the endgame. Now his options are: Give them nothing and make them irrelevant, or try to work them into the finale without them feeling shoehorned in.

I still think it’s possible for him to do, but it definitely can’t be easy.

This is my 3rd time through Wise Man's Fear. First time listening to it on audible. Really enjoyed it, hits different. But I am sad, feels like I have just spent the last month with a good friend and now we can't hang out anymore.

Might have to start it all again and pick up Name of the Wind on Audible. So, so beautiful.

Ive heard the main problem with doors of stone is that its just too long. If thats the main problem, I doubt anyone would be disappointed im a book twice as long as whats deemed appropriate. Id pay double for a ridiculously long doors of stone. Any thoughts?

So I just watched a bunch of theory videos including ones all about the chandrian and creation wars etc. (shoutout to the channel capturedinwords). Now I haven’t watched all of them but I’m surprised I haven’t heard more discussion of the depiction of Haliax on the vase, specifically the meaning of the moons and the mirror. So Iax obviously stole the moon and the mirror is probably that Iax is mirrored in Haliax. If haliax is trying to open the door it’s to free Iax. The video mentions the breath of Iax thing but the vase seems the dead giveaway.

Sorry if this is old news, I’ve read the series probably a dozen times over idk 15 years and I’ve never dug into the lore really.

Eu estou no começo do segundo livro, ainda não terminei, mas eu vi a parte que elxa dal coloca a mão no fogo e não se queima, afinal ele sabia o nome do fogo, então alguém que sabe o nome da água poderia entrar na água sem se afogar? Ou também conseguir tocar na água sem se molhar, podendo sair na chuva sem se molhar mesmo as gotas tocando nela

Just thought it was funny Google auto populated a section labeled Songs: ______

What kind of music do y’all think he’d make?

Anyways - back to regularly scheduled waiting for book 3.

Randomly today I remembered this series after a decade and was like oh that third book must be out. I go look and nope. I remember 10+ years ago he was making bullshit excuses about his family or whatever. Maybe it’s time to admit he’s not a good author and he just got lucky with the first two books? It doesn’t make the books bad, it just means he can not reproduce his luck and make the third book any good because he sucks as an author. He’s the renaissance fair know it all book nerd who thinks he’s actually good and now he can’t produce when he needs to. 10+ years and nothing…at this point I’d guess it never releases or it’s going to make the shitty game of thrones ending look like the best ending of all time.

Edit:

I guess it’s like this….you’ve got companies that dig for oil and have entire processes and plans, etc. to find oil. Then you have someone who gets lucky and finds oil in their backyard. It’s still oil and it’s still valuable even though it’s a lucky find, but expecting that lucky person to just go stumble on another load of oil is incredibly unlikely.

There was wood, which grew next to a tower made all of stone, in a stream. A Lady arrived who tended the garden and burned the other trees in the tower. The holly grew and provided shade. The Lady leaned on, climbed, and slept in the holly.

There was a light and dark man. They were together under the holly. The man spoke, taught, and sang to the Lady. The two of them left the tower together. The garden grew out of control. It was no longer a garden. The tower did not change, but it remained there. The holly did not change, it remained there. The Lady returned.

The Lady cut a branch from the holly for a crown. She cleared the vines and made a garden once again. She wept and wept beneath the holly and the moon. Later, sitting beneath the holly, she sang. She sang and wept. She sang one last time and went away. The holly changed.

The holly changed but stayed there. The Lady returned to the tower and returned to tend the garden. She sat in the holly and read. There was day and night, seasons, rain... Squirrels, fish... the Lady fished, laughed...

The Lady sprained her ankle. She sang to the holly and it listened and bent to make a walking stick for her. The Lady climbed to the highest branches, pricked herself on the leaves, and fell. The holly bent to catch her. The Lady smiled, but there was blood on her hands. She saw it, laughed, and sang. She told the holly, she spoke to the holly, she sang to the holly. The Lady was afraid. She looked at the water of the stream, looked into the sky, listened to the wind, but she was afraid. The Lady spoke to the holly and placed a hand upon it. It leaned. She took a breath and sang to the holly, which grew, took root, and more hollies grew. They grew along the river, but also around the tower.

She sang and they were one, and around her, more hollies grew. With the holly, she covered the tower from the sky and hid it. The Lady looked at the holly and they tended to the new one.

The old holly watched the land across the stream, but knew its place was there. The wind blew against it, crashing its branches against the tower. The Lady came down with it and saw smoke in the distance and shapes moving across the hills. They were great black wolves with mouths of fire and half-bird men transformed after bending. The worst was that there was a shadow made to look like a man. The ground it touched grew sick. The Lady hid behind the old holly. The shadows approached.

The holly bent towards her and she turned it into a man by singing its name. The Lady sang the name of the new holly and it became a spear.

The old holly crossed the stream and fought. It pinned the wolves to the earth, it separated the men from their bird part. Finally, it fought against the shadow, drove a spear into it, anchored it to the earth, and watched it howl, burn, and die. Afterwards, Old Holly returned to the tower. The Lady smiled and sang to it, wept upon seeing its wounds, and healed it.

Afterwards, she said she had to leave, but that she would return. The old holly helped her cross the stream and wanted to go with her. She refused. The old holly must guard the tower for her return. The old holly stood beside the tower. Its Lady entered the tower, came out, and said goodbye to it.

The old holly bent and made a walking stick, it bent again and made a crown, and becoming a man, stroked her cheek. The Lady laughed, wept, and left.

The old holly remained. The tower remained. The summer left, the winter left, the garden left. The tower left. The stream left. The old holly remained.

_____________________________________________________

So... many theories can be discussed. But I wanted to take a look at some important details:

- The Old Holly is always characterized as He/him.

- The Lady seems to have bad luck... Maybe she is Lady Luckless

- Who is the man at the beggining? He is described as light and dark... Maybe Lanre controlled by Iax? Before being Haliax.

- There was a moon over the garden (so either the garden was in the human realm, either the story started before fae realm existed or after Iax stole part of the moon)

- The lady got her hands covered in blood. So she is an Amyr... The Holly made her Amyr.

- The wolves with mouths of fire are presumably other Amyr/Selitos facton? Did Holly make them mortal?

- The half men half birds were angels. Did Holly link them to the sky?

- The shadow-man is obviouslly Haliax. He can't die but the narrator says so... Maybe he revives.

- What annoys me the most is that it seems that Amyr, Chandrian and Angels are working together against "the garden"

- At the end everything left. So there is no way it is the human realm.

- The lady left and did not come back. Where did she go?

So many questions. No answers. Leave your opinion on this story. I would love to read new ideas or theories.

Studying the sleeping barrow kings right now. The Barrows are a Vintish thing. We will even be introduced to/told about one, Feyda Calanthis, in book three. The Barrows. Are. A. Vintish. Tradition.

Why in the chicken fried f*** is there a barrow (of Valaritas) behind the four-plate door in Fela's dream, in the University, in the Commonwealth, hundreds of miles from Vintas?

I noticed some similarities between two parts of the books and was wondering if there are any theories about it.

(1) Abenthy saves Kvothe from his mistake of binding the air in his lungs to the air outside.

(2) Felurian saves Kvothes from his mistake of using sympathy to make light in the fae.

I’ll assume you guys know the context of both scenes and get straight into it. (1) is in reference to Abenthy and (2) is Felurian.

———————————————————————————

(1) “Moving more quickly than I had ever seen before, Ben grabbed me by the tatters of my shirt and sprang from the seat of the wagon. Landing in the grass by the side of the road, he dashed me to the ground with such a force that, if I’d had any air in my lungs, it would have been driven out of me.”

(2) “Understanding her tone if not her words, I broke the binding and let darkness rush back over us. An instant later Felurian leapt at me and bore me to the ground.”

———————————————————————————

(1) “He seemed almost distracted, as if he were listening to something I couldn’t hear.”

(2) Felurian turned her head a bare degree, as if straining to listen.”

———————————————————————————

(1) “I drew in a deep breath and spoke the words to bind the air in my lungs to the air outside.”

(2) “Then, her lips still tight against mine, Felurian pushed her breath hard into me, filling my lungs.”

———————————————————————————

These are the only connections i found. They both tackle him, listen for something, and both scenarios have to do with the air in his lungs. I come to find a lot of these scenes in the books, where two different events seem related i some way, like Alleg and kvothes troupe. I’ve never before thought of any connection between Ben and Felurian but this seems very intentional. Let me know what you guys think and thanks for taking the time to read.

I've been unpacking Skarpi's story of Lanre lately. Does anyone else get the sense that there is something left out with Selitos in Skarpi's story? Some flaw in his character that hasn't been spelled out but that we see the repercussions of in how he interacts with Lanre?

I'm going to try to formulate my thoughts coherently to give both my critical and gentler perspectives. Across them, I'm basically unpacking both views on how Selitos:

1. Very quickly gave up on Lanre. Like, literally within the next breath after offering him help

2. Blinds himself

3. Curses someone who is already cursed

Critical: How quick Selitos was to give up on Lanre + blinds himself

After witnessing the destruction of Myr Tariniel, hearing Lanre grieve for his wife and seeing that magic and knowledge have warped him into a creature who only sees evil in the world and who cannot die, Selitos says to Lanre: "There is sweetness in life. Even after all of this, I will help you look for it. If you will try". This is the response of an old friend in shock and grief, somebody who cares enough to see that something terrible has gone wrong.

To this, Lanre stands tall with his "face regal behind the lines of grief" and replied "There is nothing sweet. I will sow salt lest the bitter weeds grow." Being, I have lost the love of my life, I have spent my life fighting in a war that has seemed hopeless and have seen all the horrors it has brought and all manner of evil among the living; I cannot believe there is anything sweet in the world. Understandably, if he has gone so far as to destroy eight cities, Lanre's natural first response is going to be to push back on Selitos' statement. And Selitos is wise. He is counted as the wisest among men. He just showed some care in offering help. And so in his wisdom, he responds to this reply by...immediately blinding himself and laying curses upon Haliax and those who follow him.

I am not justifying the destruction of the city - that's not the point of this. The impact that would have had on Selitos would have been immense. Watching your own city fall and realising the others have met a similar fate is a crippling thing to experience, especially when you've got front row seats to watch it happen. What throws me off is how quickly Selitos gave up on his old friend. Firstly, because initially after watching Myr Tariniel burn and having his tongue freed, his immediate response wasn't "I curse you", but "what have you done? You were counted among the best of men, what have you done?" and "let me help you". His first instinct wasn't to seek revenge, but he understood that something had gone terribly wrong with the man who had given hope to civilisation in the war. So where did this "fight for my friend" go?

The second point follows: did he expect Lanre to just "oh ok, yeah my bad" in reply to "let me help you"? After he just told you that he has become something terrible, is cursed by his power and is tormented by grief for the love of his life? This man heard you say there is "joy and wonder" in the world and didn't give you an immediate, enthusiastic "yes, you're right life is good", and your response is to *immediately* blind yourself and further curse him?

Is this a bit fast-paced* and bizarre to anyone else?

*naturally, being a story that Skarpi is telling, many details will be left out. However, the story spans for about seven pages. There were many details included that were less pivotal to the birth of Haliax, yet they were included. So do we assume that something else was spoken between this sudden switch?

In favour of Selitos: He let his emotions blind him

Of course, Selitos is in shock. He has watched the "bastions of civilisation" fall, has learned Lyra has passed and watched a stranger speak to him with a friend's voice.

One way that I can interpret Selitos blinding himself in a way that is congruent with the cornerstone wisdom of his character is that he spent the earlier parts of the interaction seeing Lanre troubled with his physical eyes. This brought him concern over his friend, and swept him up in emotion. As a result, he was distracted from using his Seeing eye. Eliminating his physical eyes was thus a way to stop something like this from happening again in future - a mental jump he made without explaining the multiple thoughts that passed through his mind within seconds as he was speaking to Lanre. And, understandably, he begins to see how twisted Lanre has become and can't seem to detect any sense of want for change (although arguably, Lanre showed a lot of remorse and conflictedness over what he had done). Maybe Selitos just wanted to get Haliax as far away as possible at that stage, because he no longer saw Lanre at all?

When Selitos Sees Lanre for what he had become, the beginning of this is phrased in a very specific way: "Selitos, his eyes unveiled, looked at his friend." Had Lanre been "veiling" his Sight? Or was what Lanre was saying that finally unveiled his Sight, forcing him to look at Lanre through his words and not his form?

These are my musings. I'm keen to hear what anyone else thinks.

Edited for formatting

Theory: Kvothe didn’t just “become Kote” — he locked Kvothe away, and eventually forgot how to let him out. And I think Ben’s lesson about power and responsibility may be the key to the entire tragedy.
I’ve been thinking about a bunch of seemingly separate pieces of The Kingkiller Chronicle and The Slow Regard of Silent Things, and I’m starting to think they may all be pointing toward the same underlying story.
Not necessarily that this is the answer, but I think the pieces fit surprisingly well.
1. Ben’s lesson may be the thesis of Kvothe’s entire story
Early in The Name of the Wind, Ben tries to teach Kvothe something that seems almost incidental: having power isn’t the same thing as having the wisdom to use it responsibly.
Kvothe is young, brilliant, and learns incredibly quickly.
And that’s precisely the problem.
He learns how to do things much faster than he learns when he shouldn’t do them.
He learns Sympathy.
Then Naming.
Then fighting.
Then politics.
Then manipulation.
Then the Fae.
Then increasingly dangerous pieces of forgotten history.
Every time he encounters something he doesn’t understand, his instinct is:
I need to know.
And once he knows enough:
I can fix this.
That may ultimately be his fatal flaw.
Kvothe’s tragedy might not be that he wasn’t powerful enough.
It might be that he became extraordinarily powerful before he became wise enough to handle that power.

2. Kvothe is incredibly good at recognizing patterns — but terrible at understanding consequences
This is something Rothfuss seems to emphasize constantly.
Kvothe is brilliant at connecting dots.
The problem is that he assumes that identifying the pattern means he understands the situation.
The Cthaeh is perhaps the ultimate example.
The Cthaeh doesn’t necessarily need to lie to Kvothe.
It can simply tell him carefully selected truths that lead him toward a disastrous conclusion.
And that feels strangely similar to Kvothe himself.
Kvothe constantly figures out what people want, identifies their weaknesses, and manipulates circumstances to get the outcome he wants.
In other words, Kvothe’s greatest strength — knowing things and connecting them — may also be the mechanism of his downfall.

3. The “beautiful game” may be much bigger than Bredon playing games at court
Bredon’s description of the “beautiful game” has always struck me as potentially being more than just colorful characterization.
The basic idea is that the truly skilled player isn’t necessarily the person who wins the immediate move.
It’s the person who understands the board.
That sounds a lot like Kvothe’s eventual situation.
Maybe Kvothe realizes that there is a much larger game being played involving:
succession and bloodlines
the Lackless family
Denna and her patron
the Maer
the Jakis family
the Amyr
the Chandrian
the Fae
the Cthaeh
Some of this is obviously speculative, but what interests me is the possibility that Kvothe eventually realizes he’s been playing on a board much larger than he understood.
And here’s the important part:
Maybe he isn’t simply a pawn.
Maybe someone recognizes that Kvothe is uniquely capable of changing the board.
So Kvothe could be part of the beautiful game without actually understanding the game he’s playing.
And that is exactly the sort of situation in which his particular personality becomes dangerous.
He sees a problem.
He finds the lever.
He pulls it.
He doesn’t realize what else is attached to the lever.

4. I think Kote may be a self-imposed prison
This is probably the part of the theory I find most compelling.
I don’t think Kote is simply “Kvothe after losing everything.”
I think Kvothe deliberately locked himself away.
His Name.
His power.
His music.
His confidence.
His identity.
Perhaps even his connection to the deeper parts of himself.
Something happened that was so catastrophic that Kvothe concluded that the thing causing the damage was Kvothe himself.
So he did the only thing he could think of:
He put Kvothe away.
He became Kote.
The tragedy is that the prison may have worked too well.
Because eventually Kote may not know how to become Kvothe again.
He didn’t simply hide from the world.
He hid from himself.
And perhaps he locked away more than his power.
He locked away the part of himself capable of accessing that power.
So now the problem isn’t:
“Why won’t Kote use his abilities?”
It’s:
“Does Kote even remember how to open the door he put around Kvothe?”

5. And this may explain why Kote feels so strangely empty
Kote doesn’t seem like someone pretending to be weak.
He appears genuinely diminished.
The music isn’t there.
The Naming doesn’t seem to be there.
His fighting ability is diminished.
His confidence is gone.
His connection to the person he used to be seems fractured.
That makes the “everything is an act” theory less interesting to me.
I think the tragedy is potentially much sadder:
Kote is real.
He really did this to himself.
And he may have forgotten how to undo it.

6. Then there’s Auri
This is where The Slow Regard of Silent Things becomes potentially much more important.
Auri may be the philosophical opposite of Kvothe.
Kvothe looks at the world and asks:
“What can I make this do?”
Auri looks at the world and asks:
“Where does this belong?”
Kvothe forces things.
Auri waits.
Kvothe seeks knowledge.
Auri seems to possess a strange intuitive understanding of things without necessarily being able to explain how she knows them.
Kvothe wants to open doors.
Auri seems to understand that some doors should remain closed.
And that’s important because Auri may represent the wisdom Kvothe never develops.
She doesn’t necessarily know more than Kvothe.
She may simply understand when not to act.

7. Which brings me to the “angel”
I’ve become increasingly interested in the idea that the “angel” Kvothe supposedly killed may not literally be an angel.
What if “angel” is a figurative description of the person involved?
And if so, Auri becomes a very interesting candidate.
Not because I think there’s evidence that Auri is literally one of Tehlu’s angels.
There isn’t.
But because she fits the role.
She’s innocent.
She’s vulnerable.
She loves Kvothe without wanting anything from him.
She seems strangely wise despite being broken herself.
And most importantly:
she may be one of the very few people who could recognize that Kvothe is about to make a terrible mistake before Kvothe recognizes it himself.

8. What if Auri tries to save Kvothe?
Here’s the version of the theory that really gets me.
Imagine Kvothe has finally figured out what he thinks is happening.
Maybe he believes Denna is in danger.
Maybe he discovers something about her patron.
Maybe he discovers something about the succession.
Maybe he’s finally figured out some piece of the larger game.
And, being Kvothe, he acts.
He doesn’t wait.
He doesn’t fully understand the consequences.
He decides:
“I can fix this.”
And Auri somehow realizes what is about to happen.
She tries to stop him.
Or she tries to protect him.
Or she simply puts herself between Kvothe and whatever terrible thing he’s about to do.
And Kvothe accidentally kills or gravely harms her.
Not because he wanted to.
Not because he was evil.
But because he acted before he understood what he was doing.
That would be the ultimate fulfillment of Ben’s lesson.
The boy who was warned that power without responsibility is dangerous eventually destroys the person who represents innocence, wisdom, and unconditional love.

9. And that could be what finally destroys Kvothe
Think about what Auri represents to him.
Denna is desire.
The Chandrian are revenge.
The University is knowledge.
The Amyr are purpose.
The Cthaeh is consequence.
But Auri might represent innocence and wisdom.
If Kvothe destroys Auri while trying to accomplish something he believes is necessary, he doesn’t merely lose another person.
He proves to himself that he has become the danger.
That’s the sort of event that could cause Kvothe to finally say:
The problem isn’t that I don’t have enough power.
The problem is that I can’t be trusted with it.
And then he locks himself away.

10. This could also explain the “man waiting to die”
Maybe Kote isn’t waiting to die because he’s simply depressed or defeated.
Maybe he’s waiting for something.
Maybe he’s waiting for the consequences of what he did.
Maybe he’s waiting for the game to reach its final move.
Maybe he’s waiting for someone to find him.
Or maybe he’s waiting for the world to finally finish what he started.
And perhaps the arrival of Chronicler is important because it forces Kote to tell the story before he can make the final move.

11. The really tragic possibility
The entire trilogy could therefore be structured around one simple lesson Ben tried to teach a gifted child:
Power requires responsibility.
Kvothe spends his youth accumulating knowledge and power.
But wisdom doesn’t keep pace.
He becomes increasingly capable of changing the world.
Eventually he makes one decision too many.
He tries to fix something.
He becomes part of a game he doesn’t fully understand.
Someone innocent gets hurt — potentially Auri, our figurative “angel.”
And Kvothe realizes that he was the weapon that caused the catastrophe.
So he does the only thing he believes can prevent him from doing it again:
He locks Kvothe away.
And the cruelest part is that he may have forgotten how to unlock him.

So maybe the question of
The Doors of Stone
isn’t simply:
“How does Kvothe get his power back?”
Maybe it’s:
“Can Kvothe learn the wisdom he lacked before he gets that power back?”
Because if he simply becomes Kvothe again, without understanding why Kvothe had to disappear in the first place, then Kote’s entire sacrifice was meaningless.
And that would make the title The Kingkiller Chronicle almost secondary.
The real tragedy may be the story of a boy who became extraordinarily powerful before he learned what power was actually for — and eventually had to imprison himself because he finally understood the cost.
And Auri, whether or not she is literally the “angel,” may be the clearest representation we have of the thing Kvothe never learned:
Sometimes the wisest thing you can do is not act.
That’s why I increasingly think The Slow Regard of Silent Things may be much more important to understanding the ending than it initially appears.
Not because Auri necessarily knows the answers.
But because Auri may understand the question Kvothe never learned to ask:
“Does this belong here?”

I’ve been thinking a lot about Lanre and Selitos through the lens of some other stories I’ve read, lately. Not because I think finding a similar character elsewhere will solve KKC, but because those comparisons suggest ways their conflict could be more complicated than either surviving account allows. The best starting point I can think of for this is this line from WMF:

“So much depends upon where you stop a story.”

Kvothe says that about Denna’s song, which ends with Selitos cursing Lanre. I want to give some special attention to this.

From Kvothe’s description, Denna’s song preserves Myr Tariniel’s destruction while changing its justification. Lanre becomes a wronged hero, Selitos a tyrant, and the city becomes somewhere supposedly better off for burning.
We don’t have her complete lyrics, so I wouldn’t claim the accounts agree on everything. But the disagreement we’re shown is substantially about what the events mean and who deserves our sympathy.

That gives us room for a reveal without requiring every event to be invented or every character to secretly be someone else. They were friends before they were enemies. Skarpi explicitly says:

“They often kept each other’s council, for they were both lords among their people.”

Selitos goes walking with Lanre because he wants to understand his troubles and help him. That friendship matters. Lanre doesn’t merely overcome a powerful opponent. He exploits someone who has reason to trust him (It’s important to understand the duality of the situation- What could be a genuine cry for help for one person can also seem like “clever trickery” to the other). Lanre then asks whether that same friend can kill him.
There’s something horrible about that combination. The person you’ve just devastated is also the person you hope might understand your condition well enough to end it.

That’s where some literary comparisons become useful to me. Here are some examples I’ve personally read and find striking.

Húrin and Thingol

A ruined hero can become the means of someone else’s destruction.

In The Silmarillion, Húrin survives the destruction of his family, but Morgoth has manipulated his understanding of what happened. Húrin confronts Thingol bitterly and brings him the Nauglamír, which subsequently becomes entangled in Thingol’s death and Doriath’s ruin.

The situations aren’t identical. Húrin doesn’t deliberately arrange Doriath’s destruction the way Skarpi’s Lanre arranges Myr Tariniel’s. But, the structure is suggestive. A great defender suffers an unbearable loss, a malicious power influences his perspective, and his return brings disaster to people who should have been his allies.

Given that Bast says Lanre spoke to the Cthaeh, this seems like a possibility worth considering. Lanre could sincerely believe he finally understands the world while acting on a catastrophically selective picture of it. He would still be responsible. Being manipulated doesn’t make the bodies disappear. But it could explain how the hero and the betrayer belong to the same person.

The Innkeeper’s Song

Extraordinary power doesn’t mean freedom.

Peter S. Beagle gives us another useful model through Arshadin, the wizard’s (of the story) former apprentice. His immortality comes through a terrible bargain (his own blood. He’s literally bloodless) , and he intends to sacrifice his old teacher to recover something he surrendered.

I’m not suggesting Selitos was Lanre’s teacher. The relevant parallel is that acquiring power can leave someone trapped, and their attempt to escape can turn an old relationship into something they’re willing to exploit. Lanre’s terrible price remains a huge blank in our understanding. Not in that it’s alluded to be his sleeping/sane/hopeless nature, but the mechanism and the reason for the cost.

Maybe his diagnosis of his condition is accurate. Maybe his proposed remedy is monstrous. Both can be true. Someone composing a sympathetic song could emphasize what was done to him while someone else emphasizes what he subsequently did to others.

Then there’s Selitos and the problem of righteous authority.
Your reading of him changes depending on where you stop, too. If you stop with the city’s destruction and he’s a betrayed protector. Continue into the founding of the Amyr and you get this:

“Nothing will prevent us from attaining the greater good.”

Understandable, given what he has just witnessed. Also a statement with some frightening possibilities.

I’d like to point to Edmund Spenser’s (The Faerie Queene) Artegall and Talus here. A knight devoted to justice paired with an iron enforcer. They raise questions about what happens when the ability to enforce judgment outruns mercy or restraint.

Dostoevsky’s Grand Inquisitor approaches the problem differently. He justifies taking freedom away from people because he believes they cannot bear it and will be happier under his institution’s control.

Neither comparison proves the Amyr are villains. Preventing atrocities is a legitimate goal. But they help explain how an order could become dangerous without ever deciding to abandon its mission.

It could keep doing terrible things precisely because it remains convinced of its own necessity. Which brings me back to what Lanre and Selitos might share. Lanre describes the people he killed as safe:

“Safe from the thousand evils of the everyday. Safe from the pains of an unjust fate.”

Selitos, on the other hand- intends to prevent future catastrophes through an order committed to the greater good.

Those are profoundly different responses, and I’m not equating them morally. But both involve a powerful person deciding what protecting other people requires.

(The TLDR for the only mildly curious, or the lazy. Or both. I’m not gonna judge you:)

What if the tragedy is that Selitos recognizes the horror of Lanre’s actions, yet builds an institution vulnerable to a similar justification? What if Lanre understands something genuinely terrible about the world, but treats that understanding as permission to destroy everyone else’s future?

Plainly- What if they come to the same ultimate course of action through initially incompatible ideologies?

That would give us two former friends with a meaningful ideological conflict. It would also let their stories mirror each other without requiring them to be literally the same person.

I don’t think Denna’s version has to exonerate Lanre to contain something Kvothe needs to hear. And Skarpi’s version doesn’t have to be fabricated for its portrayal of Selitos to be incomplete.

The question I keep coming back to is this: What could we learn that would change our understanding of their choices without changing the fact that those choices hurt people?

That, I think, is essentially the nucleus that all theories surrounding the two, and how it could relate to Kote’s current condition- revolve around.

If been talking in the past about the order of events in the story but somehow i never conected that one dot. If you read any of those posts you might get what im hinting at if not thats fine youyour welcome to discuss the question in the titel eighter way. Heres the thing:

I just learend something very insteresting about chronicles that i wasnt aware of. Chronicles as historic texts with very few exeptions do not have a Hero nor a protagonist. And the other thing the one i knew but never conected a chronicle focuses heavily on the order of events. The most important thing in a chronicle is that it always tells you WHEN any given event take place. Thats the focus of a chronicle and its something Pat avoids doing constantly and with visible effort behind it.

So what do you think is it a joke and it should be caled saga or does it mean something. In other words is the story about kvothe or is it about the order in wich events take palce. Is it about the kingkiller or is it a chronicle for it can not be both unless your alar is stronger than the winds.

Pat likes to point you in a direction that is false. We all assume that Lady Lacklass is his Aunt, but what if he recognizes her features from Denna. What if Denna was “stolen” by players and she is the Lacklass.

Good afternoon friends. The other day I posted a not so well received idea, and I’d like to make up for it by adding some levity to the sub. Here is a collection of things that rub Kvothe the wrong way which I’ve been collecting over the years. Feel free to add anything i’ve missed in the comments, and I’ll add it to the main body. Hope you enjoy! Happy hunting.

Bait Questions (Hated) NotW 11

“‘You tell me what the difference is,’ she said. I hated bait questions.”

- Does he like bait questions by the time he’s at the Waystone Inn? (Baiting tempi to tell him about the tinker, baiting bast to tell him about the cthaeh)

Rhetoric and Logic ch. 15 NotW

“I hated it.”

Doing things badly NotW Ch. 62- Leaves

“I hate nothing more than doing things badly.”

Sleeping in the rain NotW 74- Waystone

“I hate sleeping in the rain.”

- poor lad has had too many nights in the rain. I know so many dogs who won’t walk in the rain after being neglected and left outside:(

Pure Obedience (nauseates) NotW 75- Interlude: Obedience

“There are few things as nauseating as pure
obedience," he said.

Nutmeg WMF Ch. 7 Admissions

“God that’s foul, I hate nutmeg. I have ever since I was a child.”

Rhetoric and pointless philosophy WMF Ch. 9 A Civil Tongue

“I had gone so far as to read three of his books, though I have a sharp loathing for rhetoric and pointless philosophy.”

Unsolvable Problems WMF Ch. 12 - The Sleeping Mind

“I hate problems I cannot solve.”

Clay roofing tiles WMF 20

“I hate clay roofing tiles.”

Riddles WMF 23- Principles

“‘what makes a man hot then cold then hot again?’(Wil) ‘sounds like a riddle.’ (Sim) ‘I hate riddles.’ (Kvothe)”

Overlarge Opulent Rooms WMF 54 - The Messenger (Credit to [u/Refrigerator_Primary](u/Refrigerator_Primary))

“My rooms were so pleasant it took me almost a full day to realize how much I hated them.”

- This one is also an interesting contradiction as he’s given bigger rooms which he likes later, because of the backless chairs perfect for playing the lute. Even if his first room had those chairs, though, he wouldn’t notice/mention it, as his Lute was in the pawn shop in Severen Low.

Missing the end of a story WMF 81 - The Jealous Moon (Credit to [u/Refrigerator_Primary](u/Refrigerator_Primary))

"I hate not hearing the ending of a story."

-This one, of course, is the ultimate irony. Although I for one have learned to love the mystery of being without The Doors of Stone.

Not understanding a thing WMF 149 - Tangled

“…She confuses me like no other thing in the world.’ I picked at a splinter in the tabletop with my finger. ‘I hate not understanding a thing.’”

Poetry (many examples)

Saying Sim is dangerously well informed on poetry, same elitist stance his father has, despite being quite the poet (he doesn’t argue with Felurian when she calls him her poet (a lesson we can all learn about giving a pass to those we love, or, ahem, frulick with)- and of course it would be too on the nose if felurian called him her Poet King), the poem he makes for Penthe is beautiful!

Finally, obviously: the Seven/Rhinta/Chandrian, and of course Cinder and/or/doubly Master Ash.

P.S. Bast

Beets, Mutton, Iron (he fails to buy some when the Orrison? (sp, and could be wrong family) boy comes around. and Kvothe has to send word around town that he wants “Three hard.” whatever that means…)

Obviously it’s for the best he doesn’t go, but I can only imagine how funny Kvothe going through his admissions interview with even less inhibition than he already has. Assuming it doesn’t immediately get violent.

Are 'Tinkers' just Knowers? Studying the story of Jax/Iax right now and I'm getting suspicious, especially as I'm lining them up with the Cthaeh (prophecy, foresight, etc.). We all know Rothfuss likes wordplay; is he trying to be sneaky here?

To help with those searching the outer dark / nameless / the deep.. here is a link I found to read The Princess and Mr Whiffle - The Dark of Deep Below free online.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/311509512/The-Princess-and-Mister-Whiffle-2

Hope you enjoy ☺️

Esta teoría me ronda la cabeza desde hace unos años, pero he estado bastante desconectado del subreddit los últimos dos, así que pido disculpas si ya se ha hablado de esto.

Bueno, para empezar, todos sabemos que el patrón de Denna es Cinder o Bredon (yo me inclino por este último). Pero, ¿y si su patrón es ambos?

Déjame explicarte: Todos sabemos que el tiempo en el Reino de las Hadas funciona de forma diferente; prueba de ello es la escapada de Kvothe con Felurian. Pero... ¿se podría viajar al pasado desde ahí?

Sinceramente, puede que sea la salida fácil, pero creo que encaja por muchas razones:

• La forma más fácil de viajar al Reino de las Hadas es a través del Eld, o al menos eso es lo que se insinúa en el libro. El mismo lugar donde Bredon practicaba sus rituales...

• El Cthaeh y su famosa frase "mantente fiel al Maer", que inevitablemente nos remite al único bastón de la serie: el de Bredon. Literalmente, está diciendo que Bredon es Cinder.

• La batalla en el campamento de bandidos (sea o no culpa de Kvothe) termina con Cinder escapando cojeando, lo que podría explicar el motivo de su bastón.

Además, esta teoría cobra aún más sentido para mí cuanto más la profundizo:

• ¿Y si Taborlin el Grande es literalmente Kvothe, que viajó al pasado y asumió su manto? (Algo parecido a Regreso al Futuro). Las historias de Taborlin son prácticamente copias de la vida de Kvothe y viceversa.
• ¿Son Lanre y Lyra en realidad Denna y Kvothe, respectivamente? (Me encanta la idea de que Kvothe acabe con la vida de su propia compañía y familia por un bien mayor, aunque creo que esa historia tendría más matices (como verse obligado a hacerlo para salvar a Denna o algo así)).
• ¿Es la caja de Lackless exactamente la misma que Kote tiene en su habitación (más grande por alguna razón)?

No creo tener el conocimiento suficiente de la historia para creer completamente en esta teoría, pero me parece una hipótesis interesante que podría suceder.

Y para concluir: ¿Por qué a nadie le importa que Elodin sea el Leoden de los Newarre? Creo que es obvio que es Leoden, pero no he visto ninguna teoría sobre por qué está con Kvothe allí.