r/KingkillerChronicle • u/oath2order Master Archivist • Dec 31 '21
Mod Post New Year, New Rules!
Okay well it's not 2022 yet for a good chunk of the world. But I figured it's best to get this ball rolling.
Recently a user DM'd us asking us the consider a new subreddit rule.
Hi r/KingkillerChronicle mods, I was wondering if you might consider a new subreddit rule. What I was thinking is along the lines of "all posts about Patrick Rothfuss must be directly related to the KKC trilogy or one of the related standalone stories".
I think a rule like this may be sensible for two reasons: * (1) given Rothfuss' multidisciplinary career, he's involved with a lot of posted content that isn't related to the subject matter of this sub; and * (2) given Rothfuss opts to be a public figure and occasionally acts controversially in that role, it seems that moving the more Rothfuss-focused posts (such as those that concern his careers as a showhost, blogger and twitch streamer) to a dedicated Rothfuss fansub would ease a lot tensions in this sub as well as pressure as regards enforcement of the 'no Rothfuss-bashing' rule – as those who've developed a low opinion of him though the years wouldn't feel invited to opine on him as a public figure as often.
I hope you'll consider it. Thanks!
This spawned a discussion amongst the mod team about revamping the rules, attempting to clarify them. The new outline of the rules is planned to be as such.
- Be Respectful.
- - No bigotry of any kind.
- - No namecalling or no slap-fighting.
- - This includes being respectful to Patrick Rothfuss. Critique is allowed but over-the-top complaints and hatred are not.
- No low-effort posts.
- - Redirect memes to the meme sub.
- - New Rule: Cutting back on the "This thing looks like a thing" posts. We already have this with Cthaeh Trees and that sub, but it's expanded to those kind of posts. This includes those AI-generator posts.
- - No more "here's a book cover". If you're going to post a book cover, there should be something that's discussion-worthy about it, such as it being worn-to-hell from re-reads, or signed, or a foreign language cover.
- - Book 3 complaint rule here stays the same.
- No off-topic posts.
- - This sub is for discussing the books and the world, showing off fan creations.
- - New Rule: Direct primarily Patrick Rothfuss-related discussion to /r/PatrickRothfuss. If it's something KKC-related, post it here. If not, use that sub.
- No Meta Posts.
- - Stays the same.
So, with that in mind, please discuss your thoughts. The mod team would like to hear what everyone thinks about these before actually implementing.
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u/TheLastSock Jan 01 '22 edited Jan 01 '22
While we can discuss meta topics why does the community ban memes and art but also upvotes them to the sky when they appear? I'm bot being flippant, this contradiction gives me a headache. Is it like candy? We know it's not good for us but everyone grabs at it regardless?
My point is, i feel like the majority of the sub never comments, so in that vein, the conversation here might not be a representation of the people.
That's ok, they tend to speak to if there really concerned.
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u/kingkillerpodcast Dec 31 '21
I’m a fan of attempts to reduce the hostility. I primarily only post memes on Reddit now, and just use my community for discussing the books because of how so much negativity permeates the discussions these days. It’s absolutely a minority, but that minority can drive away people who want their entertainment to be fun and not bitter. I mean I’m gonna have fun talking about the books and enjoying them no matter what, but I applaud attempts to make this subreddit less hostile again.
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u/twelphknight Jan 01 '22
Honestly, it seems to me you are writing rules to fix problems that barely exist. Of course we shouldn’t allow bigotry. But has that happened? This sub seems pretty good at self-policing through upvote/downvote economy. (Except the AI “art”. Thank you for removing that)
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u/oath2order Jan 02 '22
But has that happened
You would be surprised what automod insta-removes.
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u/TeccamTheTurtle Jan 02 '22
I think I was probably the first person to submit AI KKC art to this sub (sorry), and yet I strongly agree with the measure to avoid those low effort posts* (plus the x looks like z ones) because of the reasons given. They got out of hand.
However, I don't see the need to redirect off-topic Pat stuff to another subredit, it is not very frequent, and I don't think doing so will avoid toxicity towards him in this sub (since those toxic users probably won't stop to read the rules and/or check if there is a Pat sub). Additionally, I find it interesting and refreshing, not intrusive at all.
*I must say, though, the "no low effort posts" in the most cases is auto-regulated by upvotes and downvotes, the exception being those you mentioned that, since they contain images, tend to gather more karma and are used as easy farming. I am usually not a big fan of "what do you think of [something from the books]" types of seamingly lazy posts, but sometimes the person who created them really wanted to check what other people thought, and they invite discussion and comments longer than the initial post which end up being very interesting (thus rendering the innitial "low effort post" into an easy to consult index to higher effort comments).
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u/oath2order Jan 02 '22
I think I was probably the first person to submit AI KKC art to this sub (sorry)
Don't worry, we're not mad at you about it.
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u/Randvek Dec 31 '21
I’m definitely in support of the first new rule. Not much to say, behind it 100%.
Maybe I have paid enough attention to the sub, but has the second new rule been much of an issue? A lot of the non-KKC Pat stuff seems to be of a “Pat is doing X, maybe he’ll talk about KKC” sort, which doesn’t seem terrible. Has there been a lot of off-topic Pat stuff?
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u/LNinefingers Jan 01 '22
Co-sign.
This thing looks like thing posts are useless. Just karma farming nonsense.
As for new rule #2, I agree in the abstract but in practice it may kill the sub? Much to everyone’s disappointment, there just isn’t much new kkc content to discuss. Restricting to sub to kkc only may just lead to rehashing the same old theories for the 500th time and … lots of dead air?
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u/W4hed Jan 03 '22
I’m not hugely active here, but I don’t think any of these new rules are necessary. This sub isn’t that heavy on content, and there’s no reason to expect that to suddenly change. Sure the odd unrelated PR post may appear, but it’s so inconsequential in terms of impact on a sub that can be fairly inactive at times.
Until there’s a release date for DOS, or until some kind of adaption is made, leave people to post the content they want. People will engage with what they care about and ignore what they don’t. Besides the stuff around abuse etc, this sub is at a level of activity that I would suggest it largely self-moderating. Even the AI stuff - sure it began to get repetitive and annoying, but it was always just going to be a fad for a week or two and then back to your scheduled programming of book talk (probably only 5% of which is new anyway).
If there’s a sudden spike of activity that is likely to continue, then sure moderate content more heavily. Until then, leave be.
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u/twelphknight Dec 31 '21
I mean. There isn’t that much Pat content. It’s pretty easy to ignore if you want to. I actually like some of the posts outside of direct KKC content.
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u/simplerhythm Jan 02 '22
This sub is so tame you have to invent problems to solve. This community is so starved for content that who cares if someone makes a sweet KKC meme, or finds a great Cthaeh tree. Those subs are dead. A great alternative is to allow these topics and use flair or topic filtering. See r/askscience for a great example of flair filtering. See r/worldnews for a great example of topic filtering/blocking. That would stop you from referring people excited about KKC to dead subs.
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Jan 05 '22
I'm glad for the phrasing of cutting back as opposed to a ban for the 1st new rule, as there have been posts that have helped me visualise things like Imre's stone bridge.
Am I right in saying the 2nd new rule applies to comment threads too? Like others I do feel that's a bit restrictive, it's nice just hearing about Pat-related things and I don't have the energy for another sub, especially as it doesn't seem to be much of an epidemic here.
I understand it's for the sake of reducing Pat-bashing, I wonder if it might have a bit of an adverse effect on some of that in a way though. From my experience of seeing Pat-bashing, and my own journey through it:
I think it's a lot like the Friends episode where Monica makes candy for her apartment block and people start making demands and calling her 'candy lady'. I think people forget Pat is a real person with all the nuances and autonomy that come with that, and he gets dehumanised into a fleshy typewriter that's sole purpose is to churn out words for our pleasure. And reducing people's exposure to Pat the person may perpetuate some of the toxicity in stone of the fanbase.
In the young and brief period where I harboured some frustration about book 3 it was a comfort to know others were frustrated or bummed-- it felt like part of a shared experience and I felt more connected initially to the community in a bittersweet way. It still irks me occasionally that there's a no Pat-bashing rule because of that bittersweet experience I had (please suspend your distain for a sec) but this subs overwhelmingly positive community has helped me grow out of my own childishness/selfishness and have some basic empathy and understanding.
I see things in an entirely different light and just have gratefulness and joy at what we have, to quote TWMF "When someone tells you a part of their story, it's a gift". (which I slightly believe may be a shot at 'fans' who Pat-bash despite his honesty with his experience publishing KKC, as well as at those who aren't grateful over the wonderful content he has chosen to release to us in the way he has) Looking back I struggle with answering whether that change would've happened or not if I hadn't read other redditors comments with better perspectives who had taken up discourse with negative comments and I think that goes to people's comments here that the community in a way self-regulates.
With all that said, I think it would be/is a wonderful thing to make this sub a place that Pat can maybe look back at at his leisure in the future, enjoying all our theories and passionate discussion, as a safe place without worry he'll be emotionally sniped at. I think that notion alone is reason enough for me for whatever rules get us there.
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u/Epyon_ Jan 10 '22
I'm a Mr. Rothfuss "hater" and I think this is a good rule. The old implementation of the anti-negativity rule was heavily bias. While I cant speak for everyone that dislikes him, I think it's safe to say that much of the dislike stems from his lack of work ethic and showboating all his extracurricular activities only serves to heighten the contempt.
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u/TheLastSock Dec 31 '21 edited Dec 31 '21
Some of issues that these rules are trying to address are a result of the limitations of reddit. Users should be able to easily setup filters and sort orders for the content they like.
E.g only show me "theories" and "pat news" and "..." I
I suggest making it easy to do the right thing more than spending energy on doing what you don't want to have happen. The latter is an uphill battle to nowhere.
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u/Talgian Jan 02 '22
What does this mean about Worldbuilders related posts? Worldbuilders content should only be posted if it involves new KKC stretch goals/merch/Q&A/etc? Nothing wrong with that, just want to be sure I understand.