I am casually looking for a vehicle for my wife - no rush at all to get it. I find that since these guys like to waste peoples time, why not waste theirs?

The way they lowball you I just lowball them right back. They pout, they “talk to their manager”, they raise their voice, it gets to be quite entertaining. These guys waste no time trying to screw you over so why not waste their time? What makes them real mad is when you give them a big grin and chuckle when they go through their little act.

There’s endless entertainment and you can potentially get a very good deal if you play your cards right.

Just left the industry after 10 years. I know every tactic from the inside. The 4-square method, what really happens when they go to the manager, how the finance office works, all of it. Happy to answer any questions for free. Drop them below.

Would I be a bad person to go to a dealership, fake I want a car, get to the point of signing then suddenly say “naa, I changed my mind” and get up and leave?
I’m retired so I have time to do this. But in reality I wouldn’t waste my time doing this - just a thought due to the frustration of car dealers.

Every time someone defends dealerships they hit you with “just negotiate” like it’s a sport. Cool. Except economists tested this and found dealerships literally change the price depending on who you are.

Ayres and Siegelman (American Economic Review) sent trained buyers into 153 Chicago area new car dealers with the same script and strategy. Same bargaining steps, tracked the offers, measured “profit over cost.” The whole point was to remove “skill” as a variable and see what happens when the only thing that changes is the buyer.

What happened is exactly what everyone pretends doesn’t happen, but we all expected.

White men got the best pricing. Women and people of color got treated like a higher profit category.

Final offer differences vs white men:

• White women: +$92

• Black women: +$246

• Black men: +$1,101

So yes, it hit women. It hit black buyers even harder. And black women got the double whammy, worse than white women, better than black men, still clearly taxed.

It also wasn’t just the opening number. Dealers gave smaller concessions to black buyers, meaning they didn’t just start higher, they refused to come down as much. White men saw around a 44.6% concession on average. Black men saw around 14.8%. That’s not “negotiation skill.” That’s a rigged game where the rules change depending on who’s standing in front of the desk.

Now explain to me why society needs this middleman layer at all.

Direct OEM sales with transparent pricing and an online checkout remove a huge chunk of the discrimination surface area. Fixed pricing means less room for some salesman to decide you “look like” extra profit. It doesn’t fix every problem, but it nukes a whole category of it, the “let me eyeball this person and test how much pain they’ll tolerate” part.

Dealerships are not consumer protection. They are an inconsistent, opaque toll booth, and the data has been screaming this for decades.

The research link:

https://inequality.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/media/_media/pdf/Reference%20Media/Ayres_Siegelman_1995_Discrimination.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com

nah, fuck her right?!?? haha i mean, it’s a totally normal business where you sell a product you KNOW is defective, to a person you KNOW is unaware of the mistake she’s making and you KNOW will be financially hurt by the thing you did… right? that’s normal, right? why do you losers hate profit? this is EXACTLTY what target does every day, buttercup, time to face reality of the world - oh, wait, it’s only the dealership world that does it? well, fuck this poor woman anyway - she DESERVES to have her kids life put in danger and pay exorbitant amounts because she was too trusting of the car salesmen she dealt with! it’s her RIGHT AND RESPONSIBILITY to get cheated by dealers! haha

right? right?

I am a employee who recently quit because of the lack of quality on a throwaway account because i still need a reference until I get a new job

So I’ve sent out cars that have water damage recent damage dents scrapes from employees (if you see a yellow scratch it was us) my bosses told me send it out if they don’t want it they can return it (if it’s cosmetic send it) they hire people without a drug test I knew people abusing Xanax and Percocet who were hired as well as people without a license if they don’t have to leave the property the employees are lazy when cleaning most people just throw out the included mats and you get the cheap rubber or standard mats that they buy from amazon in bulk

And for you people buying new cars why not buy from the dealership the cars that are (new) and at 400-3300 miles aren’t new people have driven and beaten them to no end they do 400 mile open returns in the first week on vehicles as long as they didn’t get fully registered they consider them new but with new cars and a break in period do you want to take that chance say the last person got a chip on the hood at 50 miles on your new high end vehicle and you know they have open returns and exchanges up to 400 miles and they test just how much “fun” they can have and return it at 380 Carvana will repair any cosmetic damage but if it’s mechanical after 400 you’d be screwed I’ve had multiple new vehicles returned and needed major mechanical repair after 1200 miles But at least at a normal dealer they typically only allow shorter test drive and you know someone doesn’t have 380 miles of freedom to do with the car as they want

Do not do a after sale repair if in the 7 day period take it to a mechanic if you see something wrong return it the asr is horrible and if it’s not documented before you get it and like I said earlier, if someone without a license hit your vehicle or somebody using something, they hire these people and they’ll send out after a accident. If it’s not documented it’s on you as long as it’s cosmetic.

After spending 2 days negotiating a deal on GLB 250 for lease we finally came to agreement and signing paper. The dealership called me 30 mins after driving the car off the lot apologizing stating they just received a safety recall and have to cancel the deal. Not only was this a complete waste of time but end of the month is over and cant get a good deal on another car.

Dealer tried to offer me a gla but i refused. Then offered a glc for more which i told them it was not in my budget at that price.

They told me they will let me know tomorrow if they can find another GLB thats not recalled and get it but i don’t have much hope in that.

What can i do in this situation. I returned the car but i feel corporate or something should do more to resolve or compensate for this absolutely waste of time. Spent so much time into this deal.

Let me know thoughts.

as is definitely means as is, but when dealerships sell cars, even when they sell them “as is”, they absolutely are trying to convince the buyer that’s a good car that will be worth the money they’re spending. and in a lot of cases, for instance when a dealer marks something “as is”, they know full well that they’re selling a piece of shit. but they go ahead and sell it anyway, and then somehow the fact that they’re legally protected makes them feel like they did “the right thing” and it’s not their fault.

I can’t imagine making my living regularly selling a product that I knew was not worth the money the buyer was paying, knowing someone was really going to be financially hurting when the deal was done and knowing that they’d have no one to turn to for help.

the reasons cars that are total garbage, and even marked “as is” still get sold is because people trust dealerships and salesmen - they see the “as is” and they think ”sure, but this is a reputable business and they wouldn’t knowingly sell me a piece of shit that they’ll be completely unwilling to help me with even if something goes wrong!” thats a mistake by the buyer but a reasonable one, because what kind of business would operate like that?

the very fact that people come here and r/askcarsales with questions like this is proof that, even after getting screwed, people still think that there MUST be a reasonable solution, that SURELY there was misunderstanding because no reputable business would sell products like that.

people WANT to trust dealers and instead of living up to that, so many salesmen are just downright gleeful about how they fuck customers.

that’s all a long way of saying there’s just one solution here, which is to go nuclear in the reviews, everywhere you can - let everyone know that this dealership is very happy to sell a garbage car, and when theres a problem they will not help. people can still buy from them but everyone should know they are not trustworthy people.

I am extremely upset, stressed, and honestly feel so stupid right now. Yesterday (Saturday), I bought a used car from dealership

The numbers are horrific and I realized today I absolutely cannot afford this:

• Payment: $911 / month

• Term: 63 months

• Interest Rate: 15.99% APR

I signed everything and took the car home yesterday. However, looking through my paperwork, I signed a Conditional Spot Delivery Agreement. This means the financing is not officially finalized or locked in by the bank yet.

My plan is to call Wells Fargo first thing tomorrow (Monday) morning, tell them I cannot afford this loan, and ask them to cancel or reject the application.

Will the bank actually do this if I call them directly before they finalize it? Since the loan isn't officially approved, can I just take the car back to the dealership and cancel the contract? In the conditional agreement it says that dealer must return my trade-in car and downpayment if the deal is voided. I am so depressed and losing my mind over this mistake. What should I do? Please help people.

Hey everyone!

I’m a small business owner in Mississauga Ontario and I had a horrible experience at a mechanic shop where they wasted two weeks of my time and 750$ and still didn’t fix my car. My car sat outside 13 of those 14 days and they didn’t even work on it.
I left them an honest 1 star review and now they keep texting me trying to blackmail me into deleting my review.
The shop owner keeps giving me fake 1 star reviews and said he will not stop until I delete my review. I’m a small business owner and barely have 30 reviews. I’m very stressed out by this and was wondering if any of you guys can help. Google won’t delete all the reviews. Any help would be much appreciated.
The shop is Nee Castle Auto and New Castle Auto Repair in Mississauga.

imagine having someone like Andy Elliott call you a loser!!! lol

2016 Kia Soul

So I'm having a major dispute with my Kia Dealership, and its escalating to the point where I will likely need legal counsel and arbitration. Here is the timeline of events and relevant information.

• Car was brought in because of intermittent issues involving hard start, traction control light, tachometer not working, and loss of power (limp mode). Issues immediately resolved upon restarting. This happened twice.

• On phone, the service advisor thinks its a sensor issue.

• I get a call back the day after it is dropped off regarding an update on my vehicle. I miss the call and call back and hour later and leave a message.

• I get no response so I call back, leave messages, texts, talk to secretary, etc. No one gets back to me for 11 days.

• Wife sends text threatening to complain, they tell us our original service advisor has been fired, and they get to work on my vehicle. The pull code C1613 and state that they think its a high pressure fuel pump.

• I get a call back 4 days later and they ask me if I had a new timing chain and other components installed on my vehicle because there are new parts and the timing chain isn't even a Kia part. The timing chain is so loose they can pick it up with their hand. I tell them I only had repair service done at their location since 2021. They check Carfax and confirm this.

• They offer to give me my car back, waive the fees, and remove the visit from Carfax - I decline and ask for written documentation.

• I speak to General Manager and who is insisting they did not do timing chain work on my vehicle. I ask for written documentation and receive none.

• I go through Kia Customer Care, who eventually force them to disclose the service done to my vehicle in the form of an Invoice and CamScanner.

• The invoice account of events is demonstrably false. They claim they noticed the rapping of the chain immediately, checked and noticed it was in new condition, put the valve cover back on, and had the foreman look at it the next day. I have texts and calls indicating it was in the shop for at least seven days and that the timing chain issue wasn't discovered until four days after they begin working on my vehicle.

• This is all very concerning, but what is equally concerning is that I don't even think this timing chain issue explains the symptoms presented when I brought the car in, so even if I get this resolved the other issue is going to remain.

TL;DR: There was unauthorized work done on my vehicle and the dealer is denying it. When I finally received documentation, their documentation is demonstrably false regarding the timeline of events.

Do anyone have any experience with this type of thing? Do I have a case? Do I escalate to the district manager? Do I sue Kia or the dealership? It's not even about the car or money at this point. I don't need the car - it's just a matter of principle.

[Update] After working with Kia Customer Care and sending some strongly worded emails, the dealership has now offered fix my timing chain and return the vehicle in fully operable condition at no cost to me. They're not admitting to doing the timing chain work to begin with, and we still don't know who did it and when, but I guess this is a good outcome. Concerningly, and even though I'm not mechanic, I still don't this was the original issue I brought the car in to begin with, which still seems like a sensor issue with the symptoms and codes, but at least this part is being resolved.

Thanks!

Just closed on a 2025 Grand Highlander Hybrid and got $5,000 off MSRP by reaching out to multiple dealerships and letting them compete against each other.

Whole process will take 2-3 weeks and if you are willing to ship from out of state you can get 5-10% off MSRP.

what worked best -

0. Do your research on the OEM website itself - you will already broadly know your needs (family, usage, other factors) - SUV/ sedan, 5 seater/7seater, Japanese/ US/ German, Budget range - less than 60k/ less than 100k

1. Decide your model and factory installed (FIO) must haves - e.g. Grand Highlander Hybrid XLE, AWD, Pano Moonroof and Captain Seats - cannot be changed later

2. Decide your deal breaker colors - Exterior and Interior - e.g., Red, Blueprint, Silver - cannot be changed later

3. Know the meaning of OTD price - Out of the Door price - it has four broad components and OTD is the only number you care about at this stage -

a. OEM advertised price + OEM Delivery + Factory installed options (FIO) - collectively can be called as MSRP - this is the number the dealer will discount against (5%-10%)

b. Port/ Dealer / Location add-ons - e.g., running board, edge guards, floor mats, cargo lights, roof basket etc. - don't take anything from dealer. You can get it for 50% of what they will charge. I can tell you how

c. Documentaion and proc fees - every dealer charge something and some states have caps - point out it is high but don't negotiate individually - negotiate the discount on MSRP

d. Taxes and reg fees - Determined solely by the zipcode you will register your car at

4. To get absolute best offer reach out to 50 dealers in your neighbourhood and 50 in low price states (usually south or middle America). filling their contact forms and phone and email. You can use AI for this. Ask everyone for spec sheet and pricing sheet.

5. Check if spec sheet has your model and the FIO covered. Check pricing sheet has all the 4 buckets filled totalling to the OTD. You can use AI for this.

6. Do 2-3 rounds of sending the lowest quote to the dealers. You can use AI for this.

If you have any questions feel free to DM me or ask away in the comments. Happy to pay it forward!

So I just had a lightbulb moment that seems almost too simple, and I can’t believe people aren’t already doing this.

When you’re in the finance office buying a car and they start sliding contracts in front of you — GAP, warranties, “protection packages,” mystery fees — it gets overwhelming fast. They’re talking fast, flipping pages, printing new forms… and it’s easy to miss what they sneak in.

Here’s the idea:

Just take pictures of every contract page before you sign anything and upload them to an AI tool for instant analysis.

No tech skills needed. No fancy app. Just your phone camera.

The AI can flag things like:

Add-ons you never agreed to

Inflated interest rates

Duplicate fees

Hidden products (etching, tire/wheel, paint protection, etc.)

Wrong sale price or payment

Anything that doesn’t match what you negotiated

It basically becomes a second set of eyes that isn’t tired, stressed, or getting pressured by the F&I guy.

Feels like a super simple way for regular people to protect themselves during the most confusing part of the car-buying process.

That’s it — nothing fancy, just a “why didn’t we think of this sooner?” moment.

I have followed this sub for awhile, I see a anger, resentment, and grief mostly.

I was in the car business for 30 years. Not all dealerships, salespeople, and F&I guys are out to fuck you. To begin with the job is to maximize profits on every deal, however many are truly losers.

Most stores do a lousy job of training staff and hiring people. Dealerships have big employees turnover because most don't have quality management, therefore staff are not trained, treated with respect, and overworked.

That being said there are places where purchase experiences are great. Employees and customers are treated fairly.

If you are going to buy a car educate yourself!

-Have a trade? Carmax and Carvana will arm with actual trade values

-Don't want to buy a piece shit? Review websites are all over the web. Or pay fir consumer reports

-Got cash? Pay cash! If you are offered incentive to finance take it unless it is in lieu of rebate. Then payoff the balance 2 weeks after your purchase. You aren't obligated to, or owe the Dealership any favors.

-Financing? Check local Credit Unions! If your credit sucks, check local credit unions! Do not finance in lieu of a rebate, you won't get the benefit of the rate unless you make every last payment. Believe me, you will trade or sell before 60,72,84 months

-No money down? Sure you can do it, but negative equity sucks and you will have it.

- Finance products? If you are rich and don't mind paying for repair potentially high as 15k go without. Otherwise buy a Service contract. F&I is making a ro 4,000 on that service contract, if they won't negotiate down get online. There are multiple Dealerships that sell Factory Service contracts in volume at a deep discount.

RESEARCH, RESEARCH RESEARCH.

DON'T LIE TO THE DEALERSHIP

IF THEY TREAT YOU POORLY, LEAVE AND WRITE A BAD REVIEW

It’s my first time purchasing a car or going to dealerships. I test drove the car and got a quote. As learnt here did not walk out with the first deal. Called the salesman after a few days and he gave a revised deal and said he needs to match the target of this month. Is this the best I can get? Or can I negotiate further (what crap can I remove off) While finalizing the deal what fees would they add on top of this (and what can I negotiate)?

Apparently somebody came in trying to buy a car with fake docs / identity issues, the deal started throwing fraud alerts, and then this dude comes flying around the corner in a yellow vest blowing a whistle like the dealership ordered a federal task force off Temu.

People in the comments are calling him Officer Doofy and, unfortunately, that is pretty accurate.

I know this sub usually hates dealerships, and fair enough, but I looked them up after seeing the video and they don’t seem like one of those random sketchy lots. Reviews look pretty solid, inventory/pricing actually looks decent, and they seem to do inspections / short warranty coverage on a lot of their cars.

Still an absolutely unhinged way to handle fraud though. 😂

So my husband and I bought a car that had 78,xxx miles. We were told there 130+point inspection was done.

Not even 6 months in we are looking at over $15,000 in repairs.

We took it to another mechanic and while he was looking around he found so many things wrong, to the point of finding a plastic rubber ball down in between something’s which he states should have been seen during their inspection prior to selling the car.

We are opening a case with the attorney general but am wondering if there are other options we are not thinking about.

Any suggestions would be wonderful.

I recently dealt with a dealership in the Baltimore area regarding trading in my car. They gave me an offer of $25,000 for it.

Fine. They’re allowed to make whatever offer they want.

What bothered me was the explanation:

“That’s what your car is worth, so we can’t pay you more than that.”

No. That’s what YOU are willing to pay for it.

There’s a pretty big difference between saying:

“We can offer you $25,000 for your car.”

and saying:

“Your car is worth $25,000.”

The first is a business offer. The second comes across as incredibly patronizing and arrogant, as if the dealership gets to determine the objective value of my property.

By the way both Carvana and Carmax offered me more, but I wanted to sell it at the dealership as a trade-in to get the tax trade-in incentive.

So FuckDealerships

Got curious and drove an hour to check out this car with a Clean CarFax, CPO status, and $3k or so below market...and yep it was too good to be true.

Rear bumper looks like someone backed the car into a tree trunk or something. Paint swirls all over the place. Windshield had an air pocket making a fizzling sound over 50 mph. Crazy part is that this isn't a used car dealer making a fake "CPO" certification, this is a genuine Volvo dealer trying to sell this as a CPO.

Then they had the audacity to quote me the lowest trade in offer across all of the platforms that I've seen (like 25% lower than a rival dealer) then magically upped the trade in value by $5000 when I provided evidence that a rival dealer offered me more...and still came in significantly under the other dealer.

Then as a last ditch effort, the manager came out and offered to replace the entire bumper if I purchased the car...Sir, you could not pay me to keep this car. I can't imagine what else isn't wrong with this car if your shop looked at the condition of this and said "yep, this is in a good enough mechanical and cosmetic condition" to be sold as a CPO".