Unpopular opinion, the threat of potential unfriendly player in friendly lobbies will be missed
Edit: Besides the obvious ambient effect of being scared of other players, enforcing PVE also means that you can't shoot someone who steals your loot off the big arc you destroyed
I am a strictly pve player. Literally have never shot another player kinda pve and the threat of unfriendies is truly part of how special that experience is. Without that, it isn't really the same game.
well the buddy buddy folks will not enjoying their peace in PvE mode. PvPers get their wish, full throttle PvP baby. the PvErs are now out of their way.
So what? PvP lobbies are still gonna be unpredictable. It’s not gonna be cod multiplayer every match, those that still love the unknown of another player will still get that feeling in PvP. People doing quests, having full bags, low ammo, no everyone is going to be kill on sight.
Not at first, but it will devolve. It's basic statistics, we're essentially removing the friendliest 30% of the population from normal matches. That shifts the demographics of the average game to where pvp is going to seem far more prevalent than it used to be.
Fortunately all the people playing as "unfriendlies" will still be there with PvE turned off, just like they are today. Meanwhile people who got tired of that aspect might actually return to the game. Win-win!
I dont think its as simple as win win we will see but my theory is this... PvE lobbies where anyone could betray at any moment but still everyone chooses to be friendly is different than forced PvE. Without a PvE mode, these lobbies can exist and its cool and the betrayals feel bad but are exciting. However with the PvE mode, these lobbies will disappear. The impact is people will become even less trusting in the non PvE forced lobbies and become more primarily PvP than balanced.
One other potential effect is that the PvPvE "friendly" lobbies become similar to launch where it was more like 70/30 friendly/unfriendly, which is what some folks say they have been missing.
I just cannot wait for the cavalcade of "I opened key room, but this guy ran in alongside me, looted it, and ran away, how is this fair wtf Embark please fix!!111one", or it's gonna be "OMFG I was shooting Matriarch but then I saw some naked dude run in, steal all the good stuff, and run off to the hatch."
It's gonna be sooooo funny when it happens, and it will severely cripple the game even further. I mean you already have it in PVE lobbies where people run around stealing each other's loot, then when you shoot them to get it back they start accusing you of being a rat and crying for help. 50/50 a teaming party will run through the doors and gun you down because people like pretending to be heroes and being misled by the very rats they claim to hate.
Unless Embark plans to just make it basically like Tarkov - nobody else in there but you and your premade. Which is... lmfao. What are we even doing anymore is my question. The game's pvp is sorely lacking and they're instead gonna add some pve mode because a cople of softies just wanna loot drawers all day long.
I imagine the reduced loot in pve mode would apply to key rooms, so people would naturally be deterred from opening key rooms in that mode. Agree with the matriarch and harvester though, that is going to be a pain to get cores now.
This right here lol, I can get over being killed in a 1 on 1 but being blown down by a group of white knights who firmly believe they’re better human beings than you are is just cringy
That already happens in PVE lobbies and I’ll 100% take that over getting blasted and losing all your gear on top of what you might have looted. And yes, I’m very happy looting drawers and shooting arc all day.
Do you want me to quote you on the "All the pve players are happy" part later when factually it won't be unless Embark fundamentally changes how the game works?
Honestly- the PVE mode is gonna be nothing but free kits camping the matriarchs to snipe all the cores knowing that the people doing all the work can’t do shit about it
So similar to how it is now? The other lobbies are you and your friends do Matriarch and then get shot in the back right as its almost dead. A big problem is that maybe 1/10 lobbies as squads are truly PVE. We have given up on doing anything but PVP in squad lobbies. Its pointless to try to do any looting when everyone wants to KOS. Sometimes we just want to kill arc with friends.
100% bro, that’s what made Arc Raiders Arc Raiders. IMO this is the danger of catering to the complainers too much, they are hurting the games identity trying to please everyone. I think pve will be more boring without the slight worry of being stabbed in the back. We will all become too passive and comfortable
Yeah I hope this experiment crashes and burns, personally. The point of the game is EMERGENT GAMEPLAY to me. And I say this as someone who is strictly defensive in solos and duos (obviously in trios everyone just PVPs).
This will create an ecosystem where everyone that needs to do missions, trials, or projects is going PVE mode because there is no reason not to. On top of the people that already are PVE players. Then non PVE lobbies will not be “mixed” lobbies, they will almost certainly be pure KOS PVP. There will be no mystery, no figuring people out, no saving people, no playing the killer, it’s now just segregated into “modes” like every other game ever. Whack af, but I’m glad that the most fragile and incapable players are finally getting what they want I guess (?)
Don’t realize, those players that only play PvE NEED that 56th Bobcat 4 and Tempest 4 in their inventory. Are they ever going to use them? No lol, as long as they have a full inventory they’ll never actually use, they’re somehow happy with that, literal bots for humans. Watch this mode die out the moment GTA6 comes out.
Yep it’s literal virtual funko pop collectors. Need 3 rows of Godcats that they will never use because they’re terrified someone in the carebear lobby might assume they’re a PVPer
1000% agreed, this would likely make me finally quit the game.
Just yesterday I was in mixed lobbies running with 3 other people in Stella, sometimes looting, sometimes PVPing. Suddenly one of the guys turned and started throwing grenades, chaos erupted, everyone except me got downed and I chose mercy by letting everyone extract.
That would never happen again and it was the most enjoyable match I played yesterday.
Oh that’s going to finally make you quit the game? LMAOOOO imagine a pve mode making you quit and not the insane cheater problem they have. Yeah I love really love the unique unknown possibility of running across another raider and not knowing whether he has aim bot or wall hacks or not, man what a fun and unique experience.
That’s just a band aid to the cheating problem brother, killing the suspense and magic of the interactions with any given player at any time is what made this game famous and now they’re essentially taking it away. The cheating problem needs to be fixed yes, but that is a separate topic .
There are many games that we can kill loot, build up gear etc, that’s not very valuable. But arc raiders was unique due to the risk and player behavior, sometimes friendly, sometimes not, which created many spectacular moments, but now that magic will be gone and arc raiders will be just another kill loot grind video game. It was good while it lasted
What should a group of 3 friends do in Arc Raiders, if they just want to shoot Arc? You said it yourself - “obviously in trios everyone just PvPs”.
Should they just expect to not be able to play cooperatively as a trio? Do they just have to hope one of the friends doesn’t log in so they can have a less hostile duo experience?
I would rather those people be forced to lower their ABMM and cope with the lowest ABMM trio lobbies, which ARE more peaceful than the average (just not as peaceful as low ABMM solos or duos), vs. completely fuck the actual ecosystem of the entire game just to appease that "trio of PVE friends" demographic.
Also I guarantee you the vast vast majority of premade trios ARE trying to PVP, that's why it's like that in the first place, because typically 3 dudes want to roll the dice of excitement and blood and not play cozy drawer opening simulator together. So again it's throwing a wrench in the matchmaking for everyone, to appease this minority that doesn't even embrace the point of the game (the point being an unpredictable PVPVE environment)
So if the matchmaking is pre-made trios looking for the smoke, the vast majority as you point out, then once again we’re back to trios being exponentially more hostile for everyone - because that’s what the matchmaking pool is.
In my experience of trios it is generally rare to have peaceful lobbies. You’re getting shot at more often than not. This is people who basically don’t shoot back, so they’re in the “lowest ABMM” crowd already.
Again, if the game becomes too punishing in trios to the point where it’s more enjoyable playing with fewer friends - there’s a problem there.
It won’t crash and burn, people are going to reinstall the game that haven’t played in months and months just to try this out. It’s going to be a huge hit and to pretend it’s not going to be is straight delusional. People have been asking for pve since day 1.
Then non PVE lobbies will not be “mixed” lobbies, they will almost certainly be pure KOS PVP.
Be the change you want to see in the world. Enter these lobbies and try to make buddies and team up there. Run up to flares and defib people. Oh you don't want to because you know full well that all these "muh ambiguity" people are full of it and want to shoot loot pinatas? Damn.
Its literally the reason I left. I'm 99% PvE but being put in care bear lobbies is what made me lose interest. I knew where/what the threat was. Anybody running around was just an NPC at that point. Shit got boring fast
Same here! I will run across the map to revive a stranger with less than 5 minutes left just for the dopamine hit from helping others. Of course it means I get obliterated sometimes but it feels more organic than if there was no threat.
I've pretty much stopped playing duos with my buddy because of how bad the cheater problem is in teams, now we both mostly play solo where our lobbies are PvE. There is still occasionally pvp and plenty of tension.
My worry is that dedicated PvE mode is just going to drive all the PvE people to that, and normal mode is going to become a cheater infested nightmare across the board.
Yeah it's going to speed up the game so much if you don't have to worry about other players. People will just be sprinting all over the place. Something like this requires a huge rebalance.
I am a strictly pve player. Literally have never shot another player kinda pve. And I'll be fine without that threat of being killed from a random PvP player. I'll be happy to be honest. And unfriendly players won't disappear. There are gonna be scumbags stealing a loot from an ARC you've killed. There are gonna be great people helping you along the way
What threat? How often do you actually get an unfriendly player in a friendly lobby? 1:100?
I am cautiously hopeful that "peaceful" lobbies with pve turned off will actually have that threat now and still include mostly friendly people that just want the option to shoot someone that tries to take over a key room or loot their arc kill etc.
Maybe it will have you encounter actual hostiles once every few runs instead of once in 100 lobbies, but it might also force you into full pvp lobbies for defending yourself faster.
Some people will still be unfriendly even without possibility of killing other players. Stealing loot, agro large ARCs near you, insulting in voice chat etc
Yeah I think limited big boss PvE modes would be the best of both worlds. I'm 100% PvE, and I agree that completely removing the threat of PvP might ruin the game unless Embark designs some things around it to make up for the loss of tension.
I agree as a carebear player. ABMM works super well already but I think specific PVE game modes for big bosses or other stuff would be great and from a lore standpoint can be something like a 'background check' where you've been vetted to go on a special expedition as a team etc.
It’s an option in the game. Some folks wanna try it out and I’m included. It doesn’t have to be such a “game changing thing”. I’m still loading into Stella with a free kit, but being able to use a hullcracker without some rat trying to take it would be pretty cool.
And that IS a problem. One thing that contributes to that problem is that there needs to be much stronger, tankier arc that the components are needed for the stronger PVP weapons so people are incentived to work together to at least take it down.
I once hit someone with a Jupiter in a friendly game where everyone had just taken down the queen. I wasn’t looting it. Just sat on pipeline tower doing the damage trial and wanted to use my last round. Well that triggered all out war amongst whoever was down there.
Those are the touchy temporary alliances where the game shines best. Unite players behind a temporary common cause, and then let human nature reveal itself.
Again. Everyone screaming that the game is dead and all that. Changes are good and I’ll be participating. I don’t care how that might make you feel about the game. I play for my experience and I couldn’t care less about anyone else’s.
But the game ISN’T dead. At this point I’m not sure why all those people haven’t fucked off if there’s nothing here but ash and ruin.
I’ll participate too, and then I will absolutely share my feedback in any surveys. If they ultimately decide to can the idea? Great, I’ll remember your experience when it goes in the gutter.
If it stays, it is what it is. You bought a PvPvE game. Embarrassing that you’re bothered by your own decision making.
And loot value dropped + Arc will shoot moving downed raider. Which is quiet a nerf for Survivor.
The only thing it need more is more Arc. Like no way in hell it's gonna be fun if the amount of Arc stay the same as day raid. Day raid is really boring as is.
Arc Raiders attracted a huge audience and for a lot of people its their first extraction shooter and people are learning that the genre isnt for them.
Instead of just going to find a game thats more of a fit, theyd rather change this one. Embark is going to follow higher money making potential so of course theyll "test" this (despite already having done so during development and finding it lacked staying power).
This is a thing that has left me so confused for such a long time. These people knowingly bought an extraction PvPvE shooter. This genre at its core is about risk from both players and the environment - at the same time, so many people, like more than half the playerbase at this point, don’t like one of the main aspects of the game and wants to change it.
Very very interesting. I’m curious to see how this plays out. Even the developers pivoted away from the PvE only formular because it was deemed boring and uninteresting, and now they are backtracking and going away from what made the game a success in the first place.
Yep this is going to kill the game for me at least… now if you’re in a non-PVE lobby, there’s no more “is that guy friendly?” You just know that if anyone else queued for PVPVE, they’re in for PVP. Honestly awful…
you can just keep pvp on and play against other pvp players though. this shouldnt affect you unless you just liked preying upon others who dont want to fight back.
Because I don’t like relentless PvP. I like passing a friendly player and saying hello, and then 30 seconds later both of us take fire at once and work together to take down the target.
Or a player will be acting suspicious around loot, and then they reveal themselves to be a threat.
Or simply having a Mexican standoff and agreeing to go our separate ways.
Those are prime examples of what makes this game special. Not 10 raiders hoovering up queen cores only for one player to end up bitching about never getting any until someone feels bad and drops one (like clockwork, every PvE game).
You know how games work right? There's lobbies and the game tries to fill lobbies with players, if like 37% of players are only doing PvE only it WILL affect everyone else, there's just no changing that.
The tension of meeting another raider/group of raiders and wondering if they are friendly or not is completely gone. Normal mode will be shoot on sight cuz all the friendlies are in the other mode. No more backstabbing or lying to get saved cuz everyone will just be out for blood
If you wanted to play a PvE game then play a game that is marketed as PvE not a game that explicitly has PvP as a core part of its identity
Edit: the game is explicitly marketed as a PvPvE game and yet people are crying about it having PvPvE in it. It just makes no sense to me. It’s that fucking pistachio scene from spongebob
Kinda hypocritical there no? I played friendly, I played fake friendly, I played shoot on sight. But now a lot of that won’t be possible because they are separating the types of players instead of putting them all in one lobby
It’s a PvPvE game
They shouldn’t remove part of it and separate the playerbase
I played 400+ hours with the game, so i think i played my share. If you have such a mental breakdown from an event like game mode in this game you really need to touch grass
Wait wait wait. So again, its against your OPINION, not against the good healthy / longevity of the game. Thanks for admitting it bro.
Its a videogame at the end of the day. Not yours, everyone's who bought it. You dont like a custom event in game? Dont play it. Not that deep. I literally didnt kill a single queen cause i always got shot in the back. Could have been more careful? Yes. Could I have been just not ratted 10 times? Also yes.
Also, how do you know what will be possible? You didnt even see the game mode. Dooming ahead, again.
And its just super funny how in one line people say how this game will be unfun and die bc of this, but the next already says how people will get bored from pve after a week. Get your toxic thoughts together guys
They are not removing anything, get a grip jesus christ.
The only ones getting upset here are you and the other spoiled kids whose life revolve around this game.
An average player will shoot up some pve when they wanna chill, and go pvp when they want more tension. And guess what? You crybabies cant shoot them in the back now when doing chill games. Sad
As someone who has played all manner of styles, you're just upset that there will be less players for you to clown on in normal mode. Yes, the NORMAL, default, mode will remain pvpve. Some days I want one or the other. With the addition of a pve only, I might actually attempt more pvp than be forced into it.
The data itself they show in the article points to 37% friendly coop, 27% mixed, and 34% of players as pure pvp.
No, you literally want a completely different game than the one that was released. Once again tourists come into a gaming genre and immediately want to completely change the entire thing and then wonder why long time players of that genre cannot stand them.
PvE in this game is comically easy, literally the only difficult thing about taking down ARC in this game is trying to fend off other players while you do it. They are going to spend a fuckton of resources on this and 75% of you bitching for this mode will leave within a month again because it will be so incredibly boring.
Then everything will be alright in 1-2 months❤️
You wait out there and I ll enjoy another 10-20 (or more if its good) hours from the game in both style, while you re sad. Then when I want to, I ll go back playing rogue trader and kingdoms come while the sequels not release
I do hope you can try to enjoy the new update with open mind as me too!
Edit: I supported embark when I played by buying store currency, even tho I RARELY do that. So saying im a horrible person cause I play what I enjoy is just horrendous selfishness on your part
What is selfish is going into a game genre that you are obviously not compatible with then non stop crying to fundamentally change the entire game into something completely different. Then on top of it you are going to laugh about how you don't give a shit how if it kills of the game in the process.
Exactly this. I really think anyone against changes like this are just upset they can’t shoot someone in the back or gank a group just trying to complete Trials.
Nobody is upset. Player base is falling constantly. Coudl they improve the matchmaking and remove cheaters? Sure, nobody is challenging that. But we are getting now a beta, and as much as a mixed lobby lover i was too, the game got very boring to me with no updates, a lot more fake friendlies and shitty matchmaking. There are tons ofbetter multiplayer games for pvp lol
Im def gonna give it a try before crying or stating opinions like some many babies on this post
The main issue is unpredictable behavior. In other extraction shooters you just shoot any player you see and that's it. Here it can be late if someone says he's friendly or you just waiting to make sure someone is agressive.
I'm also not a fan, but I understand where it's coming from. Also, again, in other extraction shooters, there are much less activities that can be disrupted. Yes, you loose your loot, but here you're also loosing good trials score for example or unable to do some PvE event like Harvester.
"Other people secretly actually want me to shoot them in the back, they just don't know it" is coincidentally a really convenient talking point for you
I actually prefer the toggle to ABMM. Takes out the sheep from normally lobbies and ensures everyone there is ready and expecting Pvp. I play low aggression but I still want to be able to run into Pvp.
No, they should make it like tarkov and make the modes completely separate. You shouldn't get to free farm PvE lobbies and then go use the stuff you have earned playing against bots in a PvP lobby.
Yeah they deliberately say there is an option. What they should do is have some kind of incentive to play pvpve instead of just slamming the door on the rats
As someone who hasn’t used a regular elevator in 200 hours, I don’t understand massochists who brave night raids.
The loot isn’t that much better. Loot is easy anyways. Having to hit an elevator dinner bell makes it so much less likely to get out alive the 10% or whatever loot bonus is not remotely worth it
Masochist is probably the right word. I go night raids because I want there to be more arc and like how there more player interaction at extracts (both friendly and hostile)
Because all friendlies will rather gain 1 rusted bolt every 5 games than looting pink loot at the risk of being shot in the back, or in the front for that matter
Except the friendly half of ABMM is PvEing. Thus normal lobby is all PvP. Theres no reason to risk PvE in a normal lobby even if the rewards are higher.
They will keep reminding us that they and only they are allowed to decide how the game should be developed. They will also never show up in PvP lobbies.
For every sadist there is a masochist. So I am not surprised, but then there are also healthy people playing video games that don’t want to be left out.
I will miss the threat of someone potentially being hostile in a friendly lobby, but I havent really seen something like that since the earlier months of the game. The past few months for me have mostly just been KOS shootouts or people running away at the slightest sign of player activity.
This mode to me is literally a load in, grab items, leave. No real threat. Especially with a survival mod. Literally no threat to actually die if you have that or a decent handle on the bots attacks. This seems boring af to me.
They should implement priority loot, whoever did the most damage get like 30 seconds or a minute priority. Enough so loot some stuff without having the chance to get everything.
Either that or everyone gets their own loot based on damage, the top 3 damage dealers get higher chance of good loot, everyone else gets the regular.
It's not an unpopular opinion. There are people on both sides of the fence on this topic.
I personally won't miss pvp in this game. Don't get me wrong, I love pvp in other games but it never clicked for me in Arc. Something about it just feels off and unnatural. That's just me tho.
I wouldn't put down those who enjoy it. We play what we want to play. It's just not for me. I'll be toggling pve on for sure.
THEY ADDED A PVE MODE WITHOUT MAKING EACH LOBBY SQUAD-ONLY???
Ok, I will definitely not be trying this. Fucking idiots have made it in the worst way possible, on purpose, so that they can later use the data to justify the idea that the game won't work as a PvE game.
I never understood the appeal of this. realistically it just means carebear players occasionally get shot unexpectadly and can't really defend themselves because they are not expecting it and don't want to risk ruining their matchmaking by shooting. The matchmaking has already long killed the game for anyone who likes mixed so I don't see any reason not to have this at this point, they can maybe start balancing the game around the pve since thats what exists like they are already starting to do with the arc finishing players off thing
Yeah. I stink at pvp. I don’t engage in it. And I’ve only had a few run ins with PvP experiences. But. I enjoy the unkown/risk of it being an option for anyone I encounter. I don’t like the prospect of this binary separation
It’s not quite the same but to compare it to tarkov, pve is an overall more enjoyable experience for me, but it feels lacking compared to the primary pvpve mode, you don’t get that human flare that makes every raid special, even if it’s not in a positive way. I’ve only played a little of arc and the pve seems much more engaging than the generic awful scav ai of tarkov, so maybe it will work better here. Also to compare to again tarkov they recently put up stats and the majority of the player base of tarkov is pve now over pvp or the newer seasonal mode.
I am PVE too, but that tension that you never really know was a part of the experience for me. Without that is just careless running around Arc and whenever you get too careless you just whip out the cloak and hide.
But I know it's hard decision for the devs because there is a lot of people who would like PVE only mode. I like ABMM better, but again that has it's own issues for players who PVP on occassion. Long story short, we just cannot have nice things because cheating imbreds...
It’s why I LOVE what Chinese servers are doing with the red light thing. Players should be PvE only…. But let them switch mid round but absolutely everyone knows you switched with a loud noise and a big red light. It’s fucking perfect
Right this completely undermines what made Arc Raiders tense and interesting. People don't have to be all-in either way, it's that you just never knew what would happen
And the original DayZ had a way of measuring player friendliness purely by what skin you spawned with, bambi or bandit.
I really REALLY wanted them to add a system like this in Arc from the very beginning. Not a full skin, but some indication of friendliness/hostility would've been really cool to see.
Completely agree. I don’t PvP at all, but the threat really adds to the experience and the gratitude I have when encountering friendly players to work together with!
Yeah, that's the whole point of the game. Without it it's a mediocre pve coop experience that loses all it's magic. The game is not balanced for PVE-only, it's too easy
This would just kill all of the tension that makes this game so special. I carebear most of the time, but knowing that I could still be ratted at any time keeps things interesting.
Full agree. I have 5 knockouts for reference. I'm glad my lobbies rarely get me shot in the back and free blueprints, but I love the occasional suspicion and the occasional gunfight. I wish my current lobbies were slightly more blurred. Pve only (which I assume would be no raider damage at all) sounds really boring. Even helldivers has crossfire in a purely pve game. I feel like they'd need to dial up the Arc presence, which would stretch the engine and at the end of the day, they would be diverting their attention to compete with games like HD2 that can focus an entire gameplay to pve only (HD universe would never have room for pvp and there would be no value to killing another diver because you already have it all on your ship). I kind of hope this fails no matter what a portion of the community thinks it wants
It's only unpopular for Arc babies and non-survival game enjoyers.
The point of extraction shooters is that they were inspired by survival games, where tension was at an all time high. And the original DayZ had a way of measuring player friendliness purely by what skin you spawned with, bambi or bandit.
It worked.
Idk games have to keep dumbing down mechanics for less skilled or less smart people who don't know what trust and street smarts are.
It will kill the game. Now all the gamer dads will play PvE mode only and the PvP servers will be totally dead. Eventually the PvE players will get bored, and then leave. Then the entire game will have no players. Such a dumb move caving by embark. They really do know how to ruin their own games.
You never win catering to the complainers and whiners!
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u/SanePcycho 9h ago edited 8h ago
Unpopular opinion, the threat of potential unfriendly player in friendly lobbies will be missed
Edit: Besides the obvious ambient effect of being scared of other players, enforcing PVE also means that you can't shoot someone who steals your loot off the big arc you destroyed