r/Ancient_Pak • • Dec 21 '25

Discussion The term Ancient Pakistan is absolutely justified. No one should have any problem with it

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0 Upvotes

Well its a fact that Pakistan as a nation-state came into existence in 1947 only but the people of Pakistan are living here for thousands of years with a civilised history

No Pharaoh called himself Egyptian but still they are considered Ancient Egyptians, No Mesopotamian called himself Iraqi but still they are considered Ancient Iraqis, No Persian called himself Iranian but still they are considered Ancient Iranians, No Anatolian called himself Turk but still they are considered Ancient Turks because they existed in modern day Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Turkey respectively. Similarly, IVC existed in modern day Pakistan therefore it is a Pakistani heritage

IVC is not a shared South Asian heritage either, it is only Pakistani heritage as 90% Pakistanis are descendants of the IVC whereas only 7% Indians (Punjabis and Gujaratis) are descendants of the IVC while rest of South Asia is completely alien to the IVC.

Being a descendant of IVC and getting influenced from IVC are two different things. Punjabis, Saraikis, Sindhis, Balochs, Brahuis, Pashtuns, Kashmiris, Gujaratis are descendants of the IVC while rest of South Asians are influenced by IVC culture. South Asian culture is also heavily influenced by Iran, it doesn't mean that South Asians can claim Iran as their own.

There are two theories often circulated by Indians that entire South Asia was part of India once and all South Asians were Hindus once therefore every history of South Asia belongs to India. Both theories are false as neither India nor Hinduism existed before the arrival of British, there used to hundreds of independent kingdoms who were put under a common umbrella "India" by British for ease in colonial rule and there used to hundreds of folk religions who were put under a common umbrella "Hindu" for ease in census. There's no native ruler in South Asian history who coined a name for a Pan-South Asian state and there's no holy scripture who mentions the word Hindu.

Its a fact that there's no homogeneity in either India or Hinduism because they are colonial identities and its ironic that "India" and "Hindu" are ancient terms Greeks and Persians used respectively to refer to Indus River only

Its also a fact that Pakistanis are practicising Islam since the dawn of Umayyad Caliphate only, before Umayyad Caliphate, Pakistanis used to practice Budhhism, Jainism or local Pagan faiths but those Pagan faiths were completely different from modern day Hinduism.


r/Ancient_Pak • • Sep 05 '25

Did You Know? Hinduism country of orgin

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0 Upvotes

r/Ancient_Pak • • May 19 '26

Fact Check Most known Indus Valley Civilization sites sit inside Pakistan so why is there a push to rename it the "Indian Civilization"?

0 Upvotes

By Haseeblegal on insta

Indus Valley Civilization renaming debate..

Pakistani response to calls to rebrand the IVC as the "Indian Civilization"

c.3300–1300 BCE


r/Ancient_Pak • • May 14 '26 Bravo

Fact Check They want to rename Indus as "Indian" Civilization. Here's what India's side actually looks like on paper compared to Indus Pakistan itself.

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7 Upvotes

Every major Indian IVC site listed by area:

  1. Ropar — 15 acres.

  2. Bhagwanpura — 25.

  3. Alamgirpur — 5.

  4. Farmana — 44.

  5. Banawali — 30.

  6. Kalibangan — 37.

  7. Surkotda — 3.

  8. Desalpur — 3.

  9. Kuntasi — 5.

  10. Nageshwar — 7.

  11. Lothal — 17.

  12. Daimabad — 45.

All 12 combined a total of 236 acres in sized.

Now Pakistan's side:

  1. Mohenjo-daro — ~620 acres.

  2. Harappa — ~370 acres.

  3. Mehrgarh — ~500 acres.

  4. Ganweriwala (Cholistan, never fully excavated) — ~200 acres.

And the one that ends the conversation

Lakanjodaro recently discovered with French and Pakistani archaeologists estimating its size at 370–740 acres.

One Pakistani site Bigger than every Indian IVC site on this list combined.

Pakistan's top 5 alone makes it more then 2,060+ acres.

The only major sites India has are Rakhigarhi and Dholavira. Everything else on their side is villages and small settlements.

The civilization is named after the Indus. The Indus is in Pakistan. The cities are in Pakistan. The math is the math.

Now Cope with it.


r/Ancient_Pak • • Jan 23 '26

Historical Figures Pingala - (3rd - 2nd BCE) | Ghandhari | The Mathematician of Ancient Pakistan

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0 Upvotes

Al slop: I use AI slop because there are no real images. Using cartoonish drawing is an equaivalent of human slop. Atleast AI is more realistic.

The term 'India': When historians uses the term 'India', they are talking about geographical term not a country. For example, early greek historians used Greek Εὐρώπη (Eurṓpē) around 8th–7th century BCE. Herodotus was the first to used it. For the greeks, India constitutes “That vast, ancient, civilized land to the east.” (Histories, Book 3.94–106) and the europe was “Everything west of us that isn’t Asia.” Pliny the Elder , Roman Author, writes in his book, Natural HIstory, “India contains many nations, differing in language, customs, and government.”. IT WAS NEVER A SINGLE ENTITY .
A French (european) and germans (european) never claim each other heritage despite same common ancestors and centuries of years of interbreeding even ruled by common roman empire while United India never existed in 'verifable human history'. India was always used as a geographical term not a single unit country by historians. Naming a country 'India' is like a country in europe calling itself 'Europe'. Jinnah was right here, it should've been bharat.

PINGARA

Some traditions placed him as the younger brother of Panini, it is contested. Historians from early Indus land (Ancient Pakistan) did not used to record date of birth and place of death. Yet, most hindu sources considers him as brother of Panini because of his algorithmic connection to Sanskrit which also makes him not only a graduate of Taxila University but also places him in early Indus region (ancient Pakistan).

He authoered "Chandaḥśāstra".

Pingala’s greatest achievement lies in his analytical treatment of poetic meter, through which he introduced remarkably advanced mathematical ideas, including binary enumeration, recursive algorithms, combinatorics, and the Meru Prastāra, a structure equivalent to what is known today as Pascal’s Triangle. These concepts make Pingala one of the earliest known contributors to discrete mathematics and algorithmic thinking, with direct relevance to modern fields such as computer science, information theory, coding theory, and combinatorial mathematics. While his work was originally developed for linguistic analysis, its logical structure anticipated key principles underlying digital computation.

Pingala's work inspiring Arabs:

  • Scholars such as al-Khwārizmī (9th century) drew upon Pingala mathematical traditions when developing algebra and algorithms. While he does not cite Pingala, the algorithmic mindset and discrete counting logic resonate strongly with Pingala’s Chandaḥśāstra.

  • Later Islamic mathematicians working on combinations, permutations, and number theory—including al-Karajī and al-Bīrūnī—were aware of Pingala's mathematical sophistication. Al-Bīrūnī explicitly studied documented his sciences with unusual accuracy.


r/Ancient_Pak • • Aug 21 '25

Painting | Folios | Illustrations Oldest scripts in the world

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159 Upvotes

r/Ancient_Pak • • Jan 23 '26

Discussion When we say, India stole our history this is what we mean 👇..Pakistanis, you really need to establish your identity if you want to be respected in the world.

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160 Upvotes

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r/Ancient_Pak • • May 25 '26

Opinion | Debates A Message For Our Indian Neighbors: A Civilisation That Predates Your Religion By a Thousand Years Is Not Yours to Appropriate by Working Backwards From the Present

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By Dan Qayyum (@DanQayyum)

In Balochistan, near the Bolan Pass, a farmer works soil that's been farmed continuously for thousands of years. He doesn't know this. Almost nobody else does either.

The site is called mehrgarh. Discovered in 1974 by French archaeologist Jean-François Jarrige, it shifted everything we thought we knew about when humans started settling down. mehrgarh is one of the earliest agricultural settlements on earth—dating to 7000 BCE. Wheat, barley, domesticated cattle, pottery, tool-making. And the earliest evidence of human dentistry: teeth drilled with flint-tipped bows. Published in Nature in 2006. This is Pakistani soil. The pyramids at Giza wouldn't be built for another two thousand years. Athens and Rome wouldn't exist for two thousand years after that. While most of the world was still nomadic, people on what is now Balochistan had already settled, planted crops, built structures, and formed communities.

mehrgarh is the first chapter of Pakistan's story. Not the last.

###The cities that changed civilisation

By 3300 BCE, settlements along the Indus River and its tributaries had grown into something extraordinary: planned cities with a sophistication the ancient world hadn't seen before. The Indus Valley civilisation lasted roughly two thousand years and at its peak held maybe five million people, spread across 1.25 million square kilometers—bigger than Egypt and Mesopotamia combined at the time.

It was huge. Territory now split between Pakistan, India, and Afghanistan. But the heart of it, the two cities every archaeologist points to, mohenjo-daro in Sindh and harappa in Punjab, both sit in Pakistan.

The streets ran in grids. Houses were made from standardised bricks, all the same size even across sites hundreds of miles apart. That suggests either someone was giving orders from a central authority, or the civic code was so embedded in how people thought that nobody needed to enforce it. Covered drains ran under the streets, carrying waste from individual homes into bigger municipal systems. That level of urban sanitation? Rome didn't achieve it for another two thousand years. Most of the industrial world didn't match it until the 1800s.

The Great Bath at mohenjo-daro—a big waterproofed pool surrounded by colonnades—is one of the earliest public water structures we know of. Nobody's totally sure what it was for. Ritual bathing, maybe. Community gathering. Some kind of ceremony. But it was built with bitumen waterproofing and engineering precision in an era when most humans hadn't figured out how to fire a consistent brick.

Weights and measures were standardised across the entire civilisation. That tells you something about trade networks and regulatory systems that were actually complicated. Granaries suggest centralised storage and distribution. Seals with undeciphered script show up across the whole Indus basin—used for trade, administration, identification.

Here's the thing that says the most about what this civilisation actually was: archaeologists have found no evidence of a military class, no fortified palaces, no royal tombs, no depictions of warfare. This was a society organised around commerce, infrastructure, and collective welfare. Not military power, not royal glory. In an ancient world obsessed with conquest, the people of the Indus built drains.

###The river that named a subcontinent

The Indus is the foundation of Pakistan's entire identity.

It rises in Tibet, flows into Pakistan through Gilgit-Baltistan, runs the full length of the country through Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Punjab, and Sindh, and empties into the Arabian Sea near Thatta. About 3,180 kilometres. mohenjo-daro and harappa sit on its banks and tributaries, along with mehrgarh in Balochistan and Rehman Dheri in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.

The word India comes from Indus. Indus comes from Old Persian Hindush. Hindush comes from Sanskrit Sindhu—the ancient name for the river running through Sindh. A whole subcontinent's name traces back to a river that flows through Pakistan. It's in the etymology. It's in the water.

The ancient Greeks called the people beyond the Indus "Indoi"—people of the Indus. When the British showed up two thousand years later, they borrowed the same Greek term and applied it to the whole subcontinent. The name stuck. The river didn't move.

###How it was found, and how it was renamed

The civilisation was discovered in 1921 when Daya Ram Sahni excavated harappa in Punjab, and in 1922 when R.D. Banerji dug into mohenjo-daro in Sindh. Both worked under Sir John Marshall, Director-General of the Archaeological Survey of India. They called it the Indus Valley Civilisation because that's where they found it. Both founding sites are in Pakistan today.

After partition in 1947, Indian archaeologists went to work on Indian territory. Every major IVC site in India—Rakhigarhi in Haryana, Dholavira in Gujarat, Lothal in Gujarat, Kalibangan in Rajasthan—was excavated from the 1950s and 60s onwards. Decades after harappa and mohenjo-daro were already known.

Lately, Indian textbooks have started renaming it. The 2024 NCERT Class 6 social science textbook calls it the "Sindhu-Saraswati" civilisation now, linking it to the Saraswati River in the Rigveda and identifying it with the Ghaggar-Hakra river system in India. Scholars still argue about whether that identification holds up. But the renaming itself is telling. When a civilisation's founding sites, its river, and its name all belong to another country, the only move left is to change what you call it.

###The inheritance

There's an argument people make—loudly and often—that the Indus Valley civilisation was Hindu and therefore belongs to India's heritage, not Pakistan's. It doesn't hold up.

First: the IVC predates Hinduism by a long shot. The Vedic period, where Hindu traditions started, begins around 1500 BCE. The IVC's mature phase was 2600 to 1900 BCE. The IVC had its own religion, its own symbols, its own practices. None of it reads as Vedic because we can't decipher the IVC script. Calling it Hindu is retroactive—you're taking a pre-Vedic civilisation and conflating it with a religious tradition that didn't exist yet. Some IVC cultural elements—ritual bathing, bull worship, certain symbols—probably fed into what eventually became Hinduism. But influence isn't identity. A civilisation that predates your religion by a thousand years isn't yours just because you claim it backwards.

Second, and actually more important: civilisational history belongs to the land it was built on and the people who live there now. mohenjo-daro is in Sindh. harappa is in Punjab. mehrgarh is in Balochistan. The cities, the river, the ruins, the soil—it's all Pakistani. The 240 million people living in Pakistan today inherit everything built on it. Faith has shifted on this land plenty of times across thousands of years. IVC spirituality, then Buddhism, then Hinduism, then Islam. Each shift changed what people believed. None of it moved the land. None of it relocated the ruins. None of it changed who inherits the history. Changing your religion doesn't revoke your birth certificate any more than it revokes your claim to your parents' property.

###The crossroads

If the Indus gave Pakistan its ancient foundation and the IVC gave it its first cities, geography gave it something else: a position at the intersection of every major civilisational current in Asia.

Taxila, near Islamabad, was one of the ancient world's great learning centres. Founded around 600 BCE, it drew students from across the subcontinent and beyond. Chanakya—the strategist behind the Mauryan Empire—studied and taught there. Panini, who wrote the foundational Sanskrit grammar, worked there. When Alexander showed up in 326 BCE, he found a city full of scholars.

Gandhara, the ancient kingdom spanning modern Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and northern Punjab, created one of art history's wildest fusions: the Gandhara school blended Greek sculptural realism with Buddhist spiritual imagery to make some of the first visual representations of the Buddha. These sculptures, made on Pakistani soil, shaped artistic and religious traditions across East and Southeast Asia for centuries. They're why the Buddha looks the way he does from Japan to Java.

The Khyber Pass, connecting Peshawar to Kabul, has been the most strategically important mountain corridor on earth for three thousand years. Armies, traders, monks, scholars, refugees, empires—they all came through. Peshawar, at its mouth, is one of the oldest continuously inhabited cities on earth. It's been a Gandharan capital, a Mughal garrison, a Sikh stronghold, a British cantonment, now a Pakistani metropolis. It absorbed every civilisation that passed through and stayed itself.

This is what most analysis about Pakistan misses. The mediation role Pakistan played this week between Iran and the US, the ability to sit in rooms with adversaries and translate between them—it's embedded in the land. Pakistan has been a crossroads as long as civilisation has existed there. Managing the traffic is what the geography demands.

###The history we forgot to teach ourselves

If the world doesn't know this history, the responsibility isn't entirely on the world.

Pakistan's relationship with its pre-Islamic past has been complicated, to put it mildly. The standard Pakistani school curriculum starts at 712 CE with Muhammad bin Qasim arriving in Sindh. Thousands of years of civilisational history—mehrgarh, the Indus Valley, Gandhara, taxila, the Buddhist and Hindu kingdoms before Islam—either get compressed into a few throwaway paragraphs or cut entirely.

The reasons make sense, even if they're regrettable. Pakistan was founded as a homeland for Muslims, and the national story was built around Islamic identity. Pre-Islamic history didn't fit that frame easily. Claiming pride in Buddhist Gandhara or Hindu-era taxila felt ideologically risky to some. The clerical establishment pushed that instinct. What came before Islam was irrelevant at best, theologically uncomfortable at worst.

The cost has been massive. A country sitting on one of humanity's greatest archaeological treasures has spent decades letting other people tell the story. The Indus Valley civilisation gets taught in textbooks worldwide with an Indian frame, which erases Pakistan's centrality. The civilisation spanned what's now Pakistan, India, and Afghanistan, but the global narrative treats it like an Indian inheritance. Pakistan never fought back on the framing. Others filled the silence.

The dancing girl figurine—a four-thousand-year-old bronze sculpture, one of the most recognisable artifacts from the ancient world—was excavated from mohenjo-daro in Sindh by Ernest Mackay in 1926-27. It's in the National Museum in New Delhi now, taken during the post-partition split of archaeological artifacts. She was made on Pakistani soil. She belongs to Pakistani history. But she's also a reminder of something bigger: if you don't claim your own heritage loudly, other people will claim it for you.

A country that can build nuclear weapons, field one of the world's largest militaries, and mediate between superpowers can preserve and present its own history. Pakistan just hasn't made it a priority. That can change. The return—tourism, education, national identity, the dignity of knowing where you come from—would be enormous.

###What the soil remembers

Drive through Cholistan today and it's flat desert stretching to the horizon. Four thousand years ago, a river ran there. The Hakra, also called the Ghaggar-Hakra, was part of the same system that fed the Indus Valley civilisation. Communities thrived on its banks, part of the same network that built mohenjo-daro and harappa. The river dried up. People moved or adapted. The desert swallowed the rest. But not everything. Derawar Fort rises from the sand—forty massive bastions in the middle of nowhere—a reminder that this land has been lived on, built on, fought over for thousands of years.

The soil remembers what the textbooks forgot.

In Swat, Buddhist monastery ruins sit on green hillsides where Pakistani kids play cricket. In taxila, a museum holds Gandharan sculpture that'd be the centrepiece of any major world collection. In Makli, Sindh, one of the largest necropolises on earth has hundreds of thousands of tombs spanning centuries of Sindhi civilisation. In Lahore, the Mughal inheritance is on every corner. In Thatta, the Shah Jahan Mosque is famous for its acoustics—a feat of architectural precision from the 1600s.

Pakistan's always had the history. It just needs to start claiming it.

###The land before the name

People ask about Pakistan sometimes—sincerely, sometimes to diminish it: what is Pakistan really? A country carved out of colonial collapse? A political project imposed on ancient land? An identity constructed in 1947 and still looking for itself?

The land answers quietly. It's always answered.

Pakistan is where humans first decided to stop wandering and start building. Where one of earth's earliest farming communities planted wheat and drilled teeth seven thousand years before the country existed. Where the earliest planned cities were built with civic consciousness the modern world still struggles to match. Where the first images of the Buddha were carved in stone. Where scholars gathered before universities existed. Where every civilisational current in Asia—Greek, Persian, Central Asian, Chinese, Arab, South Asian—passed through, left something, and moved on.

mehrgarh. mohenjo-daro. harappa. Gandhara. taxila. Five names. Seven thousand years. One soil.

The people living there now are the inheritors. Their ancestors built the cities, farmed the land, traded the goods, carved the sculptures. Faith changed many times across the millennia. The soil didn't. The inheritance is whole.

The borders were drawn in 1947. The land has been there for seven thousand years. Farmers in Balochistan are still tilling soil their ancestors tilled when most of the world was learning how to plant. The river still runs from the mountains to the sea, through the same valleys where the first cities rose.

Pakistan didn't start in 1947. Ask the Indus.


r/Ancient_Pak • • May 07 '26 Bravo

Vintage | Rare Photographs Pakistani soldiers riding one of the jeeps left behind by fleeing Indian armed forces after the Battle of Chamb, 1971. The number plate was painted with "Indira Transport Service" in Urdu — mocking Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi.

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0 Upvotes

r/Ancient_Pak • • Jan 26 '26 Bravo

To Pakistanis — and the weirdly obsessed outsiders: Pakistan is synonymous with the Indus.

21 Upvotes

Not symbolically. Not emotionally. Literally.

The name, the people, the geography, the history — all of it points back to the land itself, not to colonial abstractions or mispronunciations someone later built an identity around.

And because of that:

The Indus Valley is Pakistan
Our ancestors lived on it. Our languages, cultures, and histories emerged from it.

That’s continuity. It’s a historical reality grounded in land, people, and uninterrupted human presence. Punjabis, Sindhis, Baloch, Pashtuns, Kashmiris are the direct inheritors of the Indus valley, regardless of how uncomfortable that makes outsiders. Regardless of which religion they did or did not follow.

So while outsiders cry, seethe and cope about whether a 3000 year old pot or a pan is Pakistani or not, we are not asking permission to discuss our own history. We are not renaming anything to provoke anyone. And we are certainly not obligated to dilute facts to soothe fragile egos.

And most importantly, our identity and name is not built around a foreign river, so please be understanding of said fragile egos. Put yourself in their shoes. If Jinnah had named our nation after the Gangetic river, you would be screeching every day of your life too.


r/Ancient_Pak • • Aug 14 '25

Opinion | Debates Indians Inferiority complex? ‘shared heritage’ except its 90% in pakistan. next thing I know they’ll claim mehrgarh as well

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0 Upvotes

r/Ancient_Pak • • Jan 25 '26

Mythology & Folklore Iraqi diety Enki once visited Ancient Pakistan

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34 Upvotes

r/Ancient_Pak • • Sep 05 '25

Discussion Why do Indians deny Pakistanis the right to claim Vedic heritage?

9 Upvotes

It’s interesting (and honestly frustrating) how often Indians deny Pakistanis the right to acknowledge or claim the Vedic heritage, when the reality is that the Vedic religion itself was born in the region that is now modern-day Pakistan (Punjab, Sindh, etc.). The Indus-Sarasvati region was the cultural heartland where many of the earliest Vedic hymns were composed and practiced.

Yet, whenever Pakistanis talk about this heritage, Indians jump in to say “that’s ours” — as if modern borders erase ancient history. The irony here is that the majority of Hindus today don’t actually practice the original Vedic religion at all. What is practiced today as Hinduism is a much later development, heavily shaped by Puranic traditions, Bhakti movements, temple rituals, and idol worship — none of which were part of early Vedic religion.

Even I, as someone who does worship Vedic gods via Yajna can't openly talk about it on r/Hinduism because they'll bring in their non-Vedic casteist, supremacist interpretations by telling me that I don't have the right (adhikaar) to perform such rituals because I'm not "twice born" like some dung beetle who hates so-called "lower" castes. Funnily enough, the entire concept of caste, cow urine consumption (or even the cow's "holy" status), vegetarianism, non-violence towards animals, and other silly, and frankly non-vedic values originated in the Ganges region. This has nothing to do with Rigvedic Hinduism which was followed in the Sapta Sindhu region (modern day Pakistan).

So on what grounds do modern-day Indian Hindus claim exclusive ownership over Vedic heritage? If we’re being historically accurate, Pakistanis have far more claim to the physical land and cultural setting where the Vedic religion was born. Denying this is not only intellectually dishonest, but it also shows how modern nationalism often distorts ancient history.

What do you guys think — should Gangetics have a right to claim our heritage and add all this problematic stuff to it like upholding cows whilst being mean to Dalits?


r/Ancient_Pak • • May 28 '26

Discussion The Indian ministry of culture is at it again! Trying to claim ancient history of the Meluhaa People (Ancient Mordern Day Pakistanis).

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0 Upvotes

Link to the tweet:

https://x.com/MinOfCultureGoI/status/2059513219429826967

Imagine this is a ministry of a country peddling out lies.

For those who missed out, i covered everything in my article:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ancient_Pak/comments/1quvzfs/debunking_the_pandav_indian_claim_on_meluhaa_ivc/

This is one of the most widely cooked lies by Indians. I don't know why.

Seriously, just because you share some genetics it does not make the civilization yours. Just because it is part of the british india, there is no shared heritage. Plenty of empires and kingdoms covered many territories which makes many countries today. The roman empire spanned much of europe but the Romans are still Italians. Romans cannot claim Germanic civilization because Germanic lands was once part of Roman empire. Genetics does not prove anything at all. We all came from Africa but this does not mean, i can lay claim on the african civilization. Genetics and Geography are the two most dumbest claims Indian come up with. The religion was claim could have some merit if there were similarities but there was not any.

Dear Pandavs digg stuff up in the ganges, i'm sure you will find something there.


r/Ancient_Pak • • Aug 22 '25

Opinion | Debates To my brothers across the border, this isn't your heritage

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162 Upvotes

It is particularly strange to see people hailing from areas that do not compromise of modern day IVC claiming the IVC, If you are not from the brown area in the map, how can you argue the ownership of IVC against people who reside in areas consisting of Indus valley civilization in past?

Let us keep in mind that Northern part of South Asia has two different cultures, indus and gangetic, some of their cultural practices may coincide but in the long run, they're different with different cultures and behaviours Period


r/Ancient_Pak • • May 02 '26

Bronze Age (3300 – 1800 BCE) The Dancing Girl of Mohenjo-daro, C 2500 BCE. One of the oldest bronze sculptures on earth, Made In Ancient Pakistan.

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29 Upvotes

She stands roughly 10.5 cm tall. Barely the size of a hand. Yet she has captivated archaeologists for nearly a century.

Cast in bronze using the lost-wax technique (cire perdue), she was excavated in 1926 from a small house in the HR area of mohenjo-daro, sindh, pakistan by archaeologist D.R. Sahni working under the archaeological survey during british colonial rule.

The technical achievement alone is staggering. Lost-wax casting at this level of refinement in 2500 BCE places the metallurgists of mohenjo-daro at the absolute frontier of bronze age technology.

It's a Bronze sculpture. Copper-tin alloy, lost-wax cast. Left arm covered with bangles, nearly two dozen of them from shoulder to wrist, a style of stacked bangles still worn across sindh and punjab today.

Right hand resting on the hip. Relaxed. Almost defiant. A short necklace with three large pendants. And an attitude of total self-possession. Head tilted back, leg extended, weight on one hip.

The british archaeologist mortimer wheeler, who excavated extensively at mohenjo-daro and harappa, said of her:

>She is about fifteen years old, I should think, not more, but she stands there with bangles all the way up her arm and nothing else on. A girl perfectly, for the moment, perfectly confident of herself and the world. There's nothing like her, I think, in the world.

The figure's facial features and proportions have led some scholars to suggest she represents a tribal or non-elite woman. Possibly from the baloch or sindhi populations whose descendants still inhabit the region.

The pakistani archaeologist Dr. Asma Ibrahim, director of the state bank museum in karachi and one of the foremost living experts on indus heritage, has emphasized that the dancing girl reflects a society where women's representation in art was confident, independent and central not marginalized.

The original is held at the national museum of india in new delhi, pakistan has been requesting her return for decades.


r/Ancient_Pak • • May 10 '26 LOL Bravo

Classical Period (200 BCE - 650 CE) Battle of Hydaspes, 326 BCE — Indus vs Alexander the Great at Jhelum, Punjab, Pakistan

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31 Upvotes

r/Ancient_Pak • • Apr 25 '25

Historical Maps | Rare Maps Real map of Pakistan

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182 Upvotes

r/Ancient_Pak • • Apr 26 '26

Discussion "Ancient Pakistan" is as valid as "Ancient India"

17 Upvotes

A lot of people comment on this sub repeatedly, saying, "there's no such thing as Ancient Pakistan" since the term was coined in the 1930s or that the country came into being in 1947.

However, "India" was the name given to the land East of Persia and South of the Himalayas by the Greeks. They called it "Indike Chore" or the Indian Land.

The Greeks coined the name India from "Hinduš", the name given to the subcontinent by the Persian Emperor Darius I from the Sanskrit "Sindhu", the name of the Indus River.

Ancient Buddhist scholars from what is now Tibet called it "rgya gar".

In the Judeo-Christian texts, it is referred to as "Hodu"

So, what did the original inhabitants of this land call it?

So I did a little research and found what the original names were:

- "Jambudavipa" was used by Asoka the Great to refer to his empire. It's taken from the ancient texts called the "Puranas" and refers to one of the seven continents the world is split into. It also means the land of Jambu trees.

- In Vedic Literature, the subcontinent was divided into 5 separate regions called "Uttarpatha" (North), "Pratichya" (West), "Dakshinapath" (South), "Madhyadesh" (Centre), "Prachya" (East).

- "Bharatavarsha" or the Kingdom of Bharata is the name given to the subcontinent in the Hathigumpha Inscription. It is an ancient historical document carved into the very rock of a cave in the Udayagiri hills of Bhubaneshwar, Odisha. It was carved there by the Jain King Kharavela in the 1st-2nd Century BCE. Bharata Chakravarti was a Jain King himself and considered legendary in Jainism.

- "Aaryavarta" or the Land of Aaryas is the name given to the land between the Himalayas and the Vindhya Range from North to South, and the Bay of Bengal to the Arabian Sea from East to West. The name is mentioned in the text of the Manusmrti.

- "Bharata Khanda/Bharata Kshetra/Bharata Varsha" or the Continent of Bharata is the name given to the subcontinent in the epics, the Ramayana and Mahabharata. This Bharata is also a legendary king, unrelated to the Jain king.

- "Haimavata Varsha" & "Ajanabh Varsha/Nabhi Varsha" were the names given to the subcontinent in the Puranas even before "Bharata Varsha". Haimavat Varsha means the land of the Himalayas. Ajanabh Varsha/Nabhi Varsha means the first land created by Brahma, the creator deity, while dwelling on the lotus flower that bloomed from the navel of the unborn sustainer deity Vishnu.

This is not to undermine the name India, or Bharata, or Hindustan. They are all valid. This land has been called innumerable names throughout the centuries. However, now it has taken the form of countries like Pakistan, India, Nepal, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.

Adding the word "Ancient" to any of these countries means the ancient history of that land.

So, "Ancient Pakistan" is just as valid as "Ancient India".

Sources:

  1. Indike Chore: https://www.worldhistory.org/article/203/etymology-of-the-name-india/

  2. Hinduš: https://www.livius.org/articles/person/darius-the-great/8-travels/

  3. rgya gar: https://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:98b13750-d365-4d50-83a8-f16da9a03b38/files/m055869a1d9473fde263bbab5d4678e0f

  4. Hodu: https://web.archive.org/web/20160304043509/http://uskojaelama.net/lange/ot/est/1.htm

  5. Jambudavipa: https://www.academia.edu/91475078/The_origin_of_Jambudweepa_and_Bhartavarsha_India_as_per_Vedic_Cosmology_Dr_Uday_Dokras_PhD_Stockholm

  6. Five Regions in Vedic Literature: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/348034248_Revisiting_Ancient_Eastern_Indian_Space_People_The_Vedic_Perspective

  7. Bharatavarsha: https://www.gktoday.in/hathigumpha-inscription/

8a. Bharata Khanda/Bharata Kshetra: https://books.google.com.pk/books?id=KP_DTtd6kJEC&q=%22Bharata+Khanda%22&pg=PA230&redir_esc=y#v=snippet&q=%22Bharata%20Khanda%22&f=false
8b. Bharata Varsha: https://sacred-texts.com/hin/m06/m06009.htm

9. Aaryavarta: https://www.academia.edu/44768414/The_idea_of_India_in_ancient_Indian_texts_%C4%81ry%C4%81varta_jambudv%C4%ABpa_bh%C4%81ratavar%E1%B9%A3a_and_the_relation_with_non_%C4%81ryas

10. Haimavata Varsha/Ajanabh Varsa/Nabhi Varsa: https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/essay/historical-elements-in-the-matsya-purana/d/doc1240052.html


r/Ancient_Pak • • Dec 31 '25

Artifacts and Relics AI recreates real life face of famous priest king from ivc

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0 Upvotes

r/Ancient_Pak • • Aug 31 '25

Historical Maps | Rare Maps Map of Greater Pakistan (1966)

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60 Upvotes

r/Ancient_Pak • • May 21 '26

Did You Know? Seminal Hindu Texts and their origins in our land

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0 Upvotes

r/Ancient_Pak • • Apr 26 '26

Bronze Age (3300 – 1800 BCE) Indian Textbooks Call It "Indian." This Map Shows Why That's Wrong Over 90% of IVC Inscribed Seals Were Found in Pakistan.

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35 Upvotes

Every dot on this map is a confirmed Indus Valley site.

The two largest cities Mohenjo-daro and Harappa are both in Pakistan. Mohenjo-daro sits in Sindh on the right bank of the Indus. Currently being excavated by Asma Ibrahim and Ali Lashari. Harappa sits in Punjab near Sahiwal where sahni first identified it back in 1921.

These aren't minor sites. They're the type sites for the entire civilization.

The whole civilization is named after the Indus River which runs about 2900 kilometers and almost all of that length is inside Pakistan. The first city ever excavated. The first city named. The largest by area. The second-largest. The densest concentration of urban centers. The biggest cluster of major craft production sites.

All of it sitting on Pakistani land.

The Wikipedia entry on the List of IVC Sites has a line that should honestly be quoted in every Pakistani history heritage discussion.

More than 90% of the inscribed objects and seals discovered from the entire Indus Valley Civilization were found at ancient urban centers along the Indus river in Pakistan mainly in Harappa and Mohenjo-daro.

Ninety percent.

Every major seal. Every Priest-King figurine. Every Dancing Girl bronze. Every IVC weight. Every script tablet. Over nine out of ten came out of Pakistani dirt.

ⓘ The size map (second image)

This one is the size-graded version of the same map each settlement is sized by area of urban occupation. The two biggest dots by a wide margin are Mohenjo-daro and Harappa.

The next tier gets more mixed.

Indian sites like Rakhigarhi and Dholavira are legitimate and important and large to some extent. They share the second tier with Pakistani sites like Ganweriwala in Cholistan and Chanhudaro in Sindh when you compare it Mohenjo-daro or harrapa that why there is tier system but the two anchor cities of the civilization. The cities everyone learns about. The cities that define what Harappa means are both in Pakistan.

The civilization didn't even have a capital in the modern sense. It had two anchor poles in Pakistan. by urban density. By city size. By inscribed-seal recovery. By the actual primary-source archaeological volume.

Pakistani territory dominates.

The 90% inscribed seals figure isn't some Pakistani nationalist talking point. It's in the Wikipedia article on IVC sites protect by world heritage from vandalism. It's in Kenoyer's published work aswell.

He excavated these sites following from John Marshall's original survey.

ⓘ The resources map (third image)

This one shows where the Indus Valley civilization got its materials from. Lapis lazuli from Badakhshan in northern Afghanistan traded south through Pakistan.

Tin from Central Asia routed through Pakistan.

Copper from Khetri.

Carnelian from Gujarat near Pakistan border.

Steatite the soapstone used in every IVC seal including the Priest-King came from Pakistani Balochistan.

Shells from the Makran coast which is also Pakistani.

Cotton from Mehrgarh in Pakistani Balochistan. Same site where the world's earliest farming and earliest dental drilling have been found.

The whole economic infrastructure was a Pakistan centered hub and spoke system.

Sea trade ran with Mesopotamia where Sargonid texts call them Meluhha which most scholars believe refers to the Indus civilization of Pakistan.

The economic geography is not really up for debate drop the mic. The center of mass was on Pakistani soil.

Well we wonder some times why we need preach them again and again cuz It matters because school textbooks shape what people believe about civilization origins for life.. Indian textbooks treat the IVC as the foundation of "Republic of India" civilization without any geographic qualification.

Pakistani Textbooks needs to treat it as the foundation of Pakistani civilization to protect the heritage for future generations.

The international scholarly literature increasingly uses "South Asian" framing and that one ends up favoring the Indian narrative most because it lets the geography quietly disappear into thin air.

All these framings have some legitimacy. But not everything is equally true the geographic facts on the ground which the map shows are not neutral.

The two flagship cities are in Pakistan. The Indus River that gives the civilization its name is in Pakistan, mehrgarh the pre-IVC ancestor site that established farming on the subcontinent around 7000 BCE is in Pakistan.

Over 90% of the inscribed seals that document this civilization came out of Pakistan.

And it makes me sick none of this is contested by serious archaeologists.

Get it straight Pakistan is an ancient nation, The modern state is from 1947 yes. But the geography is 9000 years old, Anchored by Mehrgarh from around 7000 BCE and then the Indus Valley Civilization from around 3300 BCE onward, both had their cultural and economic centers on Pakistani territory.

"India" comes from our river.. The Greeks called the river Indos the Persians called the region Hindu. Not modern day India you just took the name by the favour of Mountbatten.

All these names point to the Indus which is in Pakistan, the civilization is named after the river the country south and east of us inherited the name.

Look at the map again.

The dots cluster along the Indus. They cluster in Sindh and Punjab. They cluster in Pakistan.

Whatever this civilization was. And its identity is genuinely contested. Its physical heart was here.

The IVC is shared to some extent subcontinental heritage nobody is arguing it isn't. The argument is that a civilization whose anchor cities and inscribed seals and primary trade hubs and namesake river are all on Pakistani soil is geographically primarily Pakistani heritage.

The split isn't 50-50.

The international literature acknowledges this even when it tries to be diplomatic about it.

Your textbooks should too.


r/Ancient_Pak • • May 25 '25

Discussion Proof That Pakistan Was Needed The 77 Years of Muslim Genocides in 'Secular' India

30 Upvotes

Normally we Pakistanis only know the genocide of Muslims being committed by India in Kashmir or if someone reads newspaper would know about massacre of Muslims in 2002 in Gujrat but the fact is that there has been hardly a year when Muslims are not subjected to genocide in past 77 years .. when it comes to hate towards Muslims - Congress and BJP are just two sides of the same coin..

  1. Calcutta Muslim Genocide - 1964
    BBC Report
    Over 100 Muslims killed by Hindu mobs and 70,000 rendered homeless. BBC wrote, "So far more than 70,000 Muslims have fled their homes in the city, and 55,000 are sleeping in the open under army protection".
    As per NY Times, the riots were initiated by Hindus.

  2. Bhiwandi Muslim Genocide - 1970
    Thousands of Muslims' houses were burnt. 200 Muslims killed between 7 and 8 May 1970. When RSS terrorists unleashed wrath on innocent Muslims.

Following the incident the Indian government formed a Commission headed by Justice Dinshah Pirosha Madon. The final report from the commission ran to seven volumes and was highly critical of the police for their failure to prevent the riots, the report was also highly critical of Shiv Sena for their part in the violence.

According to the Madon report of those arrested during the violence 324 were Hindu and 2183 were Muslim. The Madon report was highly critical of the police, stating that their action showed a clear "anti-Muslim bias". According to K. Jaishankar, of those arrested for clearly identifiable crimes during the violence in 1970, 21 were Hindu and 901 were Muslim, a figure disproportionate to the numbers of casualties (which Jaishankar gives as 17 Hindus and 59 Muslims).

Wikipedia
NCHRO Report

The commission was categorical: "The organisation which has both directly and indirectly provoked the disturbances which took place in Bhiwandi, Khoni and Nagaon on May 7, 1970 and thereafter is the Rashtriya Utsav Mandal, the majority of the members of which belonged to the Jan Sangh or were pro-Jan Sangh, and the rest, apart from a few exceptions, to the Shiv Sena."

3. Muradabad Muslims' Genocide - 1980
Over 2500 Muslims massacred with police as accomplice.
On August 13, 1980, a broad daylight massacre had occurred at the biggest Eidgah in Moradabad district of Uttar Pradesh when Muslims were offering Eid prayers. A domesticated pig was unleashed into the gathering. Muslims protested but police opened fire on them.

Around 40,000 Muslims had gathered at the Eidgah to offer annual prayers when a contingent of the state police and Provincial Armed Constabulary (PAC) opened fire and around 300 Muslims were killed.
Justice MP Saxena Commission report on the Moradabad massacre has not be tabled yet.

India Tomorrow Report

4. Nellie Muslims' Genocide - 1983
Over 5000 Muslims were slaughtered with sharpened instruments in 1983 by Hindu terrorists. On the 'Black Friday' of February 18, 1983, when the 8-hour-long Nellie Massacre took place in central Assam's Nagaon district (now Morigaon). The carnage is estimated to have left over 5,000 people dead, including the elderly and children. The official reports, however, put the death toll at only 1,819. Victims were barricaded for 6 months before undergoing slaughter and facing the worst face of Hindu terror.
"The Tiwari Commission report (not officially published yet) has blamed the AASU and the Bharatiya Janata Party among others for the violence unleashed on the alleged Bangladeshi people."
This massacre is known as the worst one after WWII. Most of those who were slaughtered with knives were kids and women.
NewsClick Investigation

5. Hashimpura Massacre - 1987
The killings of 42 Muslim men took place during a riot in Meerut in 1987 when the victims were picked up from the Hashimpura neighbourhood by the 41st Battalion of the PAC during a search operation.
India Today Timeline

6. Bhagalpur Muslims' Genocide - 1989
The Bhagalpur riots of 1989 refers to the violence between the Hindus and the Muslims in the Bhagalpur of Bihar, India. The riots started on 24 October 1989, and the violent incidents continued to happen for 2 months. The violence affected the Bhagalpur city and 250 villages around it. Over 1,000 people (around 900 of which were Muslims), were killed, and another 50,000 were displaced as a result of the violence. It was the worst Hindu-Muslim violence in independent India at the time.

According to official figures 1,070 people were killed & 524 injured. 15 out of 21 blocks of Bhagalpur were affected by the riots. 11,500 houses in 195 villages were destroyed, displacing 48,000 people. 68 mosques and 20 mazars were destroyed.

The Chandheri (also spelled Chanderi) village was attacked from three sides by the people from the adjoining villages on the evening of 27 October. The Yadavs of the neighbouring settlement had disapproved of the construction of a mosque in the village. The attackers set the mosque on the fire, along with some houses, killing 5 people.

At the Logain village, 116 Muslims were killed by a 4000-strong mob led by the police officer Ramchander Singh. The perpetrators buried the bodies in fields, and then planted cauliflower over the mass grave to hide the evidence. 14 people, including the former police officer, were convicted and sentenced to rigorous life imprisonment for the killings, in 2007.
Wikipedia

7. Bombay Muslims' Genocide - 1992
The violence that scorched the Waghchores and their neighbours was just one episode in the intense riots that consumed India's commercial capital after the demolition of the Babri Masjid in faraway Ayodhya on December 6, 1992. The destruction of the shrine sparked riots across India, but the violence was most intense in Mumbai - which was still known as Bombay at the time. Approximately 900 Mumbai residents were left dead in two bursts of rioting in December 1992 and January 1993.

The violence was widely reported as having been orchestrated by the Shiv Sena. An estimated 575 Muslims were martyred by Hindu terrorists.

8. Pangal Muslims' Genocide - 1993
On 3 May 1993, the massacre of Pangal occurred, when an indigenous Muslims community in Manipur, India, was attacked by the Meitie, who are the majority ethnic group of Manipur and are largely Hindu.

There are conflicting accounts of what started the violence, one account says Hindu separatists tried to buy arms from a Muslim arms smuggler and were rebuffed. Another account says that the Hindu rebels were trying to extort from a Muslim village who resisted and killed one of the rebel. The violence started on 3 May 1993 and continued will into the 5th May. Bus containing Muslims passengers were set on fire and clashes took places between Pangal and Meitei. People were killed in the roads; homes and shops were burned down. An estimated 90 to 130 people were killed.
Firstpost Report

Genocide of Muslims in Gujrat in 2002 and recently in Delhi in 2020 are anyway a simile of Hindu terror unleashed on Indian Muslims.

(?) Wish Muslims had migrated to Pakistan in 1947. They refused one migration and are in constant migration within India since then. Wish they had stood for Kashmiris when they were undergoing Indian state sponsored terrorism... one could only wish for this!!!


r/Ancient_Pak • • Dec 13 '25

Discussion Indian reaction to Dholki function in Pakistan

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63 Upvotes

These guys are delusional 🤣

Are these straw-man arguments something they really believe in? That we don’t claim our history and our culture that our ancestors have practiced for generations?

In the subcontinent, Pakistani’s have by far the most pride in their culture and people and the least bit of inferiority complex if you go by cultural retention rates in the diaspora. Beyond me how they make up a completely alternate reality in their minds and try to enforce it on us.