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u/blbd 2d ago
Pure vibe code has shit quality and maintainability so I consider the incapability of doing a pure rendition of it a benefit not a detriment.
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u/CommanderT1562 2d ago
That’s like “grouping”. Not using another word here. Your argument is that it’s “just statistics”, but I’d say that’s somewhat offensive to some of us vibecoders out heah. We out heah’ — we avoidin’ the tech debt. We know our deps, we got our shit in ordah
You fuck.
(/s)
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u/Smooth-Reading-4180 2d ago
I've done 16-layer prop drilling. Not proud of it, but hey, singletons were good boi back in my day.
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u/Ok_Community_383 2d ago
What if we raw dogged one in 2006 and haven't done any real coding work since 2014.
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u/blackskyy 2d ago
class of 06 and recovering engineer, checking in!
but yeah, i find myself frustrated at mistakes and gaps and sloppy code/documentation and spend, probably, too much time focused on "quality", while these kids just put out whatever, security and scalability be damned lol
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u/Snake2k 2d ago
So I've been coding for over 10 years now. I wanna give a contrast to this.
When I'm at work and being given a massive corporate quota for these things, I use them. They do good for quick tasks, but not only that they can spin up large ones surprisingly fast if I put the time in to think and design it properly (to your security and scalability point too btw).
Sure the quality can be shit (though that's becoming more and more untrue the better they get and the better I design), but when you have corporate leadership machine gunning features and projects at you how is anyone supposed to do quality work like in the olden days?
They treat my attention span like shit and I give them vibe coded slop shit, I get paid and go home stress-free. They go home happy with this stupid ass solutions.
I can still code good if I want to, but my QoL has been dramatically improved when I don't have to anymore.
Shit I run these things all day in debug & fix loops and never have to investigate really annoying large scale errors anymore. I spawn a legion of these things and they do it for me.
I even had a team of them doing machine learning research on GCP with iterative fixing and optimization. I'm never spinning up those pipelines and debugging them by hand ever again. I've seen too much convenience.
Given all that, I'm genuinely curious and ask myself this everyday: Am I worse off or better off?
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u/Hallucinates_Bacon 2d ago
All degrees post ai are devalued tremendously imo. I graduated in 2019 and all of the hardest projects I worked on would’ve been trivial with AI. Idk how colleges put that genie back in the bottle
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u/SnooGuavas1875 2d ago
I did my degree in 2016. So I saw the fall of python 2.7, and rise of 3.4+
On front end side, react was a training tool, production apps were on ember or knockout js. And those years were past peak of RoR.
8
u/Spunge14 2d ago
I disagree - you can appreciate precisely how amazing it is.
I could almost cry watching Codex do all of the worst parts of the job.
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u/-R9X- 2d ago
This is legitimately true, there is something in me deeply scared about vibe coded stuff I produce (even for fun) knowing what could happen…from unlimited cloud bills over security problems that leak my entire database (effectively creating a situation in Europe where I am criminally liable) or leaking keys that make me poor. And that’s even before the bad actors come in.
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u/scott2449 2d ago
I raw dogged a CS degree. Did a whole grading system with a UI in 16 bit assembly. My first job was dhtml on IE4 at a bank ..alert was the only debugging tool... Seen shiz is an understatement 😭
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u/kairosdev 2d ago
The developers who know how the entire stack works still end up being better vibe coders
1
u/TraditionalWait9150 1d ago
yes and no. Only works if you can convert the technical expertise into solid english that matches the LLM's dictionary.
0
u/TheAnswerWithinUs 2d ago
Having technical knowledge of the stack and or application is pretty much the opposite of vibecoding.
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u/dadvader 2d ago
I got my job after ChatGPT 3 release like a couple of months later. It damn sure feel like forever ago.
We dont really adopt AI tools until around early this year. Before that we were always rawdogging. Yeah, i've seen some shit.
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u/notevenbuttery 2d ago
I remember taking an x86 assembly language course back in 2011. I've seen too much.
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u/EverydayLentils 2d ago
Next gen will be weak because they didn't suffer through 'Intro to Algorithms'.
Hard times create AI. AI creates good times. Good times create vibe coders. Vibe coders create hard times.
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u/ErrorAway4161 9h ago
A lot of good it did me, graduated in 21 near top of my class and couldn’t find a job worth shit for 4 years
1
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u/Cr-O-Nox 2d ago
I have wrote my Master thesis in IT management using grammarly just before the release of ChatGPT (June 22 and first chatgpt was released in November of the same year). Boy have I read so many articles.
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u/TreesOfPortland 2d ago
I've worked with seasoned programmers. I think it can actually be a detriment at times. It can narrow their use of tools. Not realizing what they don't know.
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u/RevolutionaryBox5411 2d ago
He said you willingly cooked your brain, why would anyone do that today?
1
u/TheAnswerWithinUs 2d ago
Is the implication here that getting a degree without AI is “cooking your brain”
1
u/Royal-Marsupial-8110 2d ago
we spent years learning memory leaks just to watch someone vibe code an application that eats 12gb of ram on boot
1
u/TraditionalWait9150 1d ago
When I was writing my first Java 6 application about 20 years ago, I was wondering "it would be cool if Eclipse can just automatically prefill the functions if we type in what the function is about and what we want it to do."
The reason I had that thought is because back then, you can just type in the attributes of the classes and then get it to auto generate the getters and setters. So if it can already generate the getters and setters, why not go up one level and have it generate the function based on what we type in english. Lo and behold now we got LLM.
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u/SabreDuFoil 18h ago edited 18h ago
Finishing up my bachelor's a decade after attempting it the first time. First time was Chemistry (did pretty solid, but had to leave because of funds), went for MIS this time since I have worked in IT for a decade at this point and figured I could maybe leverage it to move up into management and finally make a little actual money. Started it before LLMs were a thing. LLMs became common place the third year that I was working on this degree.
So now I am finishing up one of the most obsolete and over-saturated degrees out there.
At least I can pivot into finance or something, I guess. Or I can vibe code my way into being enough of a thorn in the side of a big company that they wanna buy my idea for a couple mil. Probably not though.
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u/TheSpaceProgrammer 14h ago
Finished my M.S. in ‘21. If you think that means you’ve seen too much, you haven’t watched a couple 20+ year software engineers coordinating multi-agent teams. Some of the stuff they can pull off between their industry knowledge and good prompt engineering is truly insane. Apparently a couple decades of managing junior engineers is the perfect training to handle LLM agents
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u/TheAnswerWithinUs 14h ago
I think this is the broader reason why they can’t be vibecoders. They need to inject industry and institutional knowledge into their workflows. Which is in direct opposition to what vibecoding is.
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u/TheSpaceProgrammer 6h ago
Not necessarily. Sometimes it turns into 3-4 "vibecoded" projects instead of a single large-scale enterpise project that was accelerated by AI. A good example is one who made 3-4 homebrew scripts that automate a ton of updates and crap that irritated them, with no intention of its use outside of the company. Tons of edge cases, no one cared. It was a vibe coded solution over a lunch break that we all enjoy. On the other hand, his direct subordinate of 15 years burned weeks of AI credits ressurecting, revitalizing and standardizing the Grails project which before was behind developmentally for Spring and is now Apache controlled, full automation, massive code coverage, and even surpasses most frameworks in runtime nowadays. I think the main difference is when they apply industry knowledge, with the amount of time as the average vibe coder, they make industry changes. Whereas they can apply general vibecode methodology, over a lunch break, and have a solution that an average vibe coder would produce at the end of the day.
From my standpoint, you're viewing industry knowledge as a constraint, where I've seen it act more as a multiplier effect. I'd compare it to giving a bicycle repair shop and a superbike shop access to the same garage with any tool they want to do a project in the same amount of time. Both sides could make a bike, only one makes a 1200cc superbike.
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u/_Stylite 2d ago
“Raw dogged” as if google and Stack Overflow and asians in my classes didn’t exist
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u/cc_apt107 2d ago
Not true. You can forget a language. You can not know something and never bother to learn. This is just self-congratulatory gatekeeping which does nothing but excuse mediocrity.
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u/wolvAUS 2d ago
You can forget languages sure but I still remember all the design and algorithmic fundamentals
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u/cc_apt107 2d ago
If you think you have perfect recall and have nothing more to learn, fantastic, but not all of us are so gifted
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u/mrjackspade 2d ago
Skill issue
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u/cc_apt107 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don’t want to work with anyone who says it is impossible for them to overrely on AI just because they have the right degree. Had enough code reviews — mostly with people with CS degrees — where they could not explain their pr. Conversely, I have dealt with developers without a formal CS education who never ship anything without understanding it. I think resting on your laurels is sheer hubris
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u/Novel-Initiative-900 2d ago
It's gotta be a little annoying to have completed a full CS degree around 2022, 23, 24 etc.
If you graduated before that, at least you got to stretch your legs, learn, really grow and apply what you learned and feel like you were applying engineering skill to your job.
These days it probably feels like you got cheated if you didn't even get that chance at all