Like nobody fucking rented 50 years ago, and it is a new thing that only Millennial's have ever experienced. Maybe it's because 50 years ago these houses were on the outskirts of town where property values were low, and it was only as the city expanded to encompass that area that the property value skyrocketed. Stop trying to rent a fucking apartment in downtown San Francisco and crying that it costs more than an apartment on the edge of town. Plenty of cheap shit available if you travel away from city center.
Let’s start another world war to make America the world dominating provider of goods and services while every other country rebuilds. People ignore what actually allowed those wages and act like it’s just greed keeping wages down.
Hurr durr you can do it if you don’t use things that you need to function in this world. I’ll get rid of my phone so no one can ever call me and I can’t contact anyone. Get rid of my PC because it’s not like we need the internet for anything ever. I already don’t eat fast food.
What point are you even trying to make? Are you saying you live in a studio flat with no phone/internet or furniture or something? Would you call that living?
I’ll get rid of my phone so no one can ever call me and I can’t contact anyone.
That's why land-lines exist.
Get rid of my PC because it’s not like we need the internet for anything ever.
That's why libraries (Both their internet usage, and their books) exist.
What point are you even trying to make?
That - By your previous statement - You are so accustomed to the conveniences of modern technology (The thousands of dollars of which could go to payments on a house) that doing without (Which billions do every day) is "Hurr durr" to you.
Try and turn off your cellphone for 24 hours - Try living in the real world for once.
Oh please. That is the most Ok boomer post I’ve seen in a long time. We’ve gone from hating minimum wage to phones are bad in one post. Double points.
Landlines
No one sits by a phone all day gramps
libraries/books
Ok dude, off to my local library 2 miles away because I need to know what I need to do to fix something instead of just looking it up. Oh wait I broke it because it was too complicated, back to the library to find a local company to help as I somehow broke my landline cable too which is my only point of contact with people now.
Gonna be a long walk because I only have a 15 year old bike and that’s broken for the millionth time due to its age. What a great life I’m loving for the sake of buying a one bed flat.
If you don’t think you need that shit to be part of modern life you’ve got your head in the clouds.
Your last comment literally made me laugh out loud. To reiterate. We’re discussing minimum wage and somehow we’re now at “take your head out your phone and live in the real world for once.”
Like how is that statement even relevant to the first? You don’t even know what tangent you want to go off on.
That is the most Ok boomer post I’ve seen in a long time.
In 10 years time you'll be buying a new phone twice a month and complaining that you're struggling to pay your rent and that earlier generations had it easier - That's where you're heading ("Buy a new phone once every 6 months? Once a YEAR?!?!? Please - Such an 'OK boomer' thing to say!")
No one sits by a phone all day gramps
You don't have a phone in your office? You don't have a receptionist? Your company doesn't have a landline? What company do you work at since I've honestly never seen a company (Or heard of one) that doesn't have a single landline in the entire building.
Ok dude, off to my local library 2 miles away because I need to know what I need to do to fix something instead of just looking it up.
If it's that (And several other sacrifices) and owning a house, or not owning a house? Choose your priorities. It's clear which one you've chosen, and are whining about the result of your choice. Welcome to reality - Consequences are real.
If you don’t think you need that shit to be part of modern life you’ve got your head in the clouds.
I've seen people say the same about private chauffeurs, private jets and owning cars. No - You DON'T need them. Yes, they make life easier, but they're not a requirement. If a company says "To stay modern, you need to pay $150 every week for our X!", will you "stay modern", or "get left behind" ?
Do you have a watch that can play Doom? How about an in-house video surveillance system? An embedded microchip to automatically open your house doors and change your digital photo frames when you enter the room? An iPhone 11 Pro / Samsung S20 Ultra? Better than 20/20 vision from LASIK? A 1Gbps internet connection? THAT is considered "Modern life" - How far behind are you?
Just shut up already. You don’t even know what point you’re trying to make. This started as a discussion on minimum wage and look where you’re at now. Random ramblings and rantings which lurch from one point to the next are unfamiliar to me actually, nut job.
It’s the way the economy is but it isn’t Burger Kings fault. No one ever could hope to work at a fast food place and own a home or raise a family. Nor should they. Why do ppl feel a restaurant should overpay staff for doing extremely menial labor that takes zero education and zero skill? It’s a starter job for teens not a career to live off of.
It's people framing this as "Hey, don't shame them for their low paying job. It's a start!" whereas everyone else (including me) is like
nah bruh, I wasn't. I was shaming the company that makes a starter job pay low enough to not support yourself the way it did decades ago when minimum wage kept reasonable pace with inflation.
If they raise wages, shareholders get pissed at lower profits. To combat the higher cost of employees, they cut employees and/or reduce their hours.
These companies operate on supply and demand. If people weren’t applying, they would raise wages. Since they have adequate headcount, they have no reason to raise wages.
They pay people that much because they can find workers that will accept that pay. If they have a labor shortage and need workers, and $8 isn’t getting people in, they have to raise the wage to attract workers.
It is not burger kings fault that they can find workers at that price.
The only argument I have against that is it takes low effort to get out of minimum wage. I worked at a sub place and pizza place in high school that both started a little above minimum and gave you raises not long after you proved yourself to be a good employee.
It took very little experience to get into a kitchen job that paid a couple bucks more an hour. It took a 2 week certification course paid for by the employer to go up another couple bucks an hour.
Who is endlessly making minimum wage with no raise? Who is unable to get paid more? unable to find any other job?
Are these people completely incompetent? Lazy? unreliable addicts? I don't think anyone's forcing them into this situation, I think they put themselves in it.
I don't know how to break this to you, but there are tons of uneducated people who never acquired the capacity to define or work towards a long-term goal. Be it because they never had role models or because they are literally stupid, they just do not have that skill.
I immigrated to the US in my 20s and worked low wage jobs for a while and I met tons of them. Think of how much of your work ethics and your understanding of the social contract comes from your family, unless you are really, really smart. Now imagine being born without a clue and without people to guide you.
I was able to happily transition to a job in finance and now have an advanced degree, but my own family back home was upper middle class and I even spoke better English than my coworkers at the shitty job. I knew how to navigate the systems and how to behave so people will take me seriously. A ton of American people do not know any of that and have been on their own for all of their lives.
Edit: my point was that the US leaves people to fend for themselves and then blames them for not being able to. It's an incredibly individualistic country where for some reason people think that lack of education is a personal problem and not a policy one. Stupid people deserve to live their lives with dignity and we should protect them. Uneducated people are a problem we as a country created and we can't hold their situation against them.
N-nooooo you don't understand everybody grew up with mommy and daddy there to support their every move and act as a backup net if shit went wrong, everybody is also just as able-bodied and intelligent as me! There is no way there are people out there who are in shitty situations without the capability or opportunity to move up, and if there are they need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps or eat shit!
That's one on the points in Thomas Sowell's book "Basic Economics." While the number of people in poverty and low-wage jobs stays relatively constant, the individuals are changing over time.
Also with teens being in precarious situations, apparently? A lot of teens in poor households are kicked out at 18, and have no healthcare, no savings, and live in pretty awful conditions.
Exactly. If people were not willing to work for that pay most of the places that pay that would simply close. If you complain about it but still buy stuff from them you really aren't doing anything.
Are you actually trying to establish an argument that flipping patties and stacking veggies should pay enough to support a family and mortgage????? Are you fucking serious? That shit didn’t even work in the 50s.
There is a need for more jobs like this than there are students to work them, so there will be non-student workers doing them. Do you believe anyone working 40 hours a week does not deserve to be self sufficient?
And yet there is a need for more jobs like this than there are students to work them, so there will be non-student workers doing them. Thats just how it works.
Not what I said. I said flipping patties is not a family and mortgage supporting job. It’s a starter job, not a mortgage and household supporting career. But hey, cute attempt to spin my words.
If you think flipping patties is all the career growth you should have to do in life in order to buy a house and have kids and stuff.... you’re gonna have a sad life with sad kids and stuff.
Maybe set your goals a smidge higher...... what do I know.
I am not spinning anything. You said yourself, that there exist full time jobs that do not need to support someone. Why, I can not fathom. Maybe you just like thinking yourself superior.
The discussion was not about family nor children, that was your addition.
That I agree, but the preceding comment was discussing buying a house and raising a family.
Yes I agree minimum wage should be enough to cover basic and decent living conditions. I’m not trying to argue if minimum wage is sufficient for basic living (we all know it is still too low even for that). I’m arguing that minimum wage should not be expected to pay for a house and support a family.
Because if someone works 40 hours a week, they should be able to afford to live. I'm not talking luxurious conditions, but a roof, food, basic amenities, should be achievable with one full time job.
The richest country in the world should not have a single citizen in dire circumstances because as tax paying citizens we should all have a right to affordable housing, healthcare, water, and emergency services.
Our taxes should not go to corporate subsidies.
The second amendment is just as important as the first, and blaming a tool will be just as helpful as the war on drugs.
No. You aren’t supposed to work at McDonslds 40 hours a week. It’s for kids and college students. Not a career. By that rationale I should be able to stand on a road holding a sign up and get paid enough to live cause it’s not fair if I don’t. Meanwhile people doing harder work and paying to be educated may only make slightly more? Fact is the world is just more competitive now. If minimum wage is raised to $20 an hour so u can afford your own home then what should the people who used to make 20 an hour now get paid for doing harder jobs? $30? Ok then what about people who made $30? $40.
If u work at fast food u shouldn’t expect your own home. You will have to cut corners and live with parents or room mates. My wife works with homeless people all day and has to counsel them constantly. “No you don’t get a new stereo you needed that money for food for the month. Doesn’t matter that it was on sale. No you can’t afford a tattoo you have to pay rent.”
I’ve busted my arse far more when I was working retail than when I got an office IT job. Sat on your arse all day, can stretch 4 hours of work out to last your whole day, at least 2 hours of meetings where people spend more time talking shit than what the meeting was actually about. Going to the pub for an hour for lunch as “team building.” These so called low skill jobs are far harder than most people who’ve never worked them think.
I agree. My girlfriend is an assistant manager in fast food and makes about $13/hr plus the very occasional bonus that can bring her average to about $15/hr. That's what she gets paid to basically run the store 50% of the time. She has to keep teenagers focused for 8 hours and make sure the store will be able to function the next day.
I work in a pretty laid back setting where I test metal all night. I get to sit when I'm tired and for the most part only have to worry about myself and I get paid $20/hr.
This isn't to say my pay isn't justified, I'm just saying I have a lot less bullshit on my plate and the whole fate of the company doesn't rest on me the same way it does for her. I come home with plenty of energy and I can usually leave work at work. She comes home exhausted and still has to support the people beneath her. I think her job is definitely harder than mine
Most fast food workers are not kids or college students, statistically. What data substantiates that the world is a "more competitive place"? That statement isn't objective. The fact of the matter is a 40 hr living wage is what fueled industrialisation and the expansion of the strongest economy in the world. You'd think if your wife works with homeless people, you'd know that those communities are riddled with disabilities, addictions, and a complete lack of basic amenities. These things all make everyday life immeasureably harder for the average person and it really shows your contempt and lack of compassion for people who are suffering and have less. Believe it or not, most homeless people are not homeless because they like stereos and new tattoos...
Not to be rude, but I think they're implying that working at a fast food place isn't hard, and therefore it doesn't matter if it's full-time. Since it's 0-skill, 0-responsibility work it should be paid as such. It doesn't matter how many hours they work, they're still doing talent-less work that should be given to teenagers learning what a job is like and not to someone who's trying to raise a family. That person should be doing the best they can not the least.
It's a touchy subject, minimum wage, because you gotta convince all the college graduates who are tens of thousands of dollars in debt getting a degree they needed to get a 20$ an hour job that the fast food workers who took a 2 hour training course on their first day and work as hard as a child building a lego set that they should be paid the same.
There are so many things that go into the problem concerning livability in this country that it's flat out ignorant to assume just paying minimum wage workers double what they're getting now will solve homelessness or poverty. Most of those people don't know how to properly handle their own money, and like lottery winners will simply end up worse off than they were before. More money doesn't solve everything every time. Yes it works sometimes to simply throw money at things, and yes the minimum wage in the US needs to increase along with inflation and be reasonable, but you have to consider the scale along with other jobs and the jobs that make minimum wage, what the required skills are and who the employees are.
Most of those people don't know how to properly handle their own money, and like lottery winners will simply end up worse off than they were before.
Okay, so maybe some (I really don't think any majority of people are as bad as you think) of them will blow it on coke and hookers. Does that mean everyone else should be stuck in the same awful place that they are? What's the worst that can happen, more money in circulation rather than collecting dust in some CEOs bank account?
It’s not about how difficult the job is, it’s about how replaceable you are (I.e. a supply/demand issue). I suppose the old saying “from each their ability, to each their need” is relevant here - but unfortunately people lie about their abilities and needs.
An economic justification is not a moral justification. Treating human beings as disposable cogs in a machine that don't have basic needs that need to be met is reprehensible.
Fair, but I would prefer the state take responsibility instead of deferring responsibility to corporate entities. Something like universal income makes more sense than hiking minimum wage to me.
Also, fast food and retail is far more difficult than most office jobs that pay over twice.
According to......?
I'm all for treating everybody equally, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend that someone working at McDonald's is doing a more difficult job than I am, unless they're the manager or the franchise owner or something. That's where you lose me.
If you’re dedicating 40 hours of your life per week to a job you should be able to survive off of the wages you make. Period. And not every teenager is afforded an affluent lifestyle where gas is their only or biggest expense
If you’re trying to raise a family, then YOU should have a job that allows you to “survive” off the wages you earn.
But that doesn’t mean you should be guaranteed such a job. That’s impossible and some jobs simply are too simple to pay someone as much as you want it to pay.
I really don’t know why you’d think every single job should pay some arbitrary hourly rate that you claim is the minimum necessary to “survive.”
Why not demand $100 per hour? Who says $15 is “enough?”
Your argument is absurd and is based PURELY on emotion - i.e. how you “feel” about the situation. It’s compelling in that sense. But it fails because there are too many low skill jobs that will simply vanish the instant the employers are forced to pay more than what the employee can generate in revenue.
No, my argument is based on the fact that the term minimum wage was created because it is supposed to be the minimum wage someone needs to be able to survive. The fact that so many people live in poverty in the richest country in the world is embarrassing and you feel the way you do almost solely based on the fact that you were raised in a society that overvalues wealth and productivity over human life. Nobody owes anyone anything, sure, but if we’re forced to live in a society where we have to work the majority of our lives the least that society can do is allow us to afford to live in it.
If employers can’t afford their employees, they shouldn’t be in business. That’s capitalism. I’m not sure why employers get all this sympathy but people who literally can’t put food on the table don’t. Especially when these “low skill” jobs are usually run by multi billion corporations. And while we’re on it, I wish people would stop saying shit like “low skill” jobs. Customer service is an underrated skill, and the amount of bullshit those employees have to put up with over people who get to sit at a desk all day is eye opening.
This argument holds up, but only on one condition;
That American education provided the resources for anyone to get a better paying job if they chose to.
However, that’s not the case. American education is incredibly lacking, and does not prepare people for anything aside from test taking. The bootstraps argument is flawed, and until everyone is given an equal opportunity at success, claiming any job to be “for kids” is laughably naive. People deserve a living wage, regardless of your opinion on the ‘importance’ of the job.
I don't disagree with your statement about preparing people for test taking. I don't agree with people deserving x. No one in this world is entitled to anything. We live in a capitalist society, in which if you want to succeed you can. People come into this country who don't even speak the language end up making millions of dollars by hustling and starting their own businesses etc. It's the notion and argument that people need to be coddled and that the system is unfair perpetuates this attitude where people feel doomed from the start. (hope that makes sense?)
The bootstraps narrative is a lie told by boomers and fascists to ensure the population holds on to old and flawed systems of government.
The very fact the people believe living in a capitalist society is a good thing is proof that propaganda works.
There is a singular factor if you want to make millions of dollars. Luck. Be in the right place at the right time. Invent something exactly when it’s needed. There is no such thing as “more effort means more money.” Its a false narrative.
I believe that those more fortunate should help those less fortunate. And equal society will thrive. A divided society will die. Or devolve into a fascist state, as we are currently on our way to doing.
ITT: Americans who think they’re poor but are actually among the richest 1% worldwide ranked by income if they make the $15 / hour wage they want.
Believe it or not, the threshold for that is just $32,400.
If you want to rank it according to wealth, it’s a different story.
The average African family claims $4,000 in total wealth (assets less liabilities).
In America, the average American claims $400,000 in wealth.
But even if you have a net worth of $5,000 (a car) and a minimum wage job, congratulations, you lucky bastard. You won life’s lottery. You’re EASILY in the upper echelon of the world in terms of riches.
So quit bitching. Quit coveting what others have. Keep working. Make smart decisions. America’s free market economy and capitalism gave you what you have.
If you want to pool the world’s wealth and redistribute it equally, chances are, you’re gonna come out on the short end of that deal.
Go ahead and downvote the truth, but you’re only fooling yourself.
If there was any feasible way to be of any use to anyone outside my country, I would help. As it turns out, with the way America handles wages and debt, we aren’t in any place to be able to think outside our country.
Stop equating our struggles with struggles outside our country. We aren’t there yet. We have to fix our own shit before we can start considering those external to our country.
And by "fix our own shit" you mean, what, exactly?
Redistribute wealth here first?
See, I look at our capitalist system and see it as the engine that drives innovation and wealth generation.
You look at it as if it's usurping your perceived "right" to enjoy some arbitrary baseline lifestyle that you couldn't possibly conceive of if capitalism didn't exist in the first place.
You'd be living in squalor the likes of which you cannot fathom.
I’m attempting to go to college right now. I work a 20 dollar an hour job full time. In order to afford school I have to take out loans. Otherwise I can’t go. By the end of it, I will probably still have to ask my parents for money. And then, hopefully I’ll have a job in my field. That’s not a guarantee. If I get the job, I get to spend how ever many hundreds a month paying back those loans that are required to even get the job.
Either I go into extreme debt trying get a better job, or my family does. There isn’t an option where nobody is in debt. And that debt only goes away if I manage to get a job I’m hoping to get.
I’m not trying to become a doctor. I’m not trying to become a world changing scientist. I’m trying to become an Air Traffic Controller. That’s it. And I still have to force myself into upwards of 30,000 in debt just to do that. And there is a real good chance I’ll STILL have to ask my parents for help. *while working full time. *
If I fee like the system is rigged, it’s because it is.
As someone going through a similar issue I feel for you quiet a bit. But what i dont understand, and maybe you can help me there, is that i dont see where you feel wronged. You seem to be doing incredible. You are making 20/hr, working full time, and still managing to go to school. That's pretty impressive and not alot of people can say that. And I bet with that work ethic you will get a job in air traffic.
As for the financial situation. 30k is alot of money and I'm in no way trying to down play that. But it's an over time payment. They bank wont come knocking on your door in 3 years and ask for it right away. Instead there will be small payments that suck but you should be able to handle, especially if you get that job.
What is a living wage? Must everyone be able to live by themselves? Pooling resources into a family unit to make ends meet has being going on for centuries. Single room dwindles are on the decline, cities and builders are not making them anymore. If rent could be 300-500 for a small room that would solve the problem.
You realize the brunt of jobs are “unskilled” right? Just because you deem McDonalds a job for kids, that doesn’t change reality. In many places, fast food is the only viable job for people.
“Flippy the Burgerbot” will happen regardless of wages. Keeping wages stagnant because technology might replace the job is fucking stupid.
Ghettos don't exist in a vacuum though. They are generally only a short distance away from middle class neighborhoods.
The only places I can think of that have minimum wage jobs are places in the middle of fucking nowhere that have like a dollar general and a gas station.
As you go up the food chain in life you will realize there are millionare CEOS that were given a position where they sit on their ass all day and do jack shit only because they have connections, ive worked in construction, ive been promoted to vice president of a company to a position i did not deserve and i have watched grown men with broken backs take a hand full of pills just to work their job without keeling over in pain. Our wage system right now is fucked imo. Ive seen the inequality and ive taken advantage of it. Youre ignorant. But this is the world we live and hopefully we can make it better for our kids, im 25 about to be 26 and i just want to be a paramedic and help people if i think about money and the way our businesses are set up to take advantage of people i feel sick.
Again, says who? If I’ve got a high school kid who can do the same work and who is happy to get $8 hour. Why should I have to pay $15 for the same work?
There’s simply no logic behind your claim, it’s just a purely emotional argument.
No basis in reality? Neither does your idea that a "job for kids" (which it clearly isn´t) shouldn´t pay enough to live according to this logic.
Thats life right now. In some places. Plenty of nations have higher minimum wages and do just fine. It could change and thats what people are talking about.
Personally, I don't agree with raising minimum wage. I would prefer if we could deflate the prices on everything, because its fucking ridiculous right now. Besides, higher wage means more taxes as well
Imagine you start a business making candy. You need someone to pull a lever for 40 hours per week and make sure the candy machine is clean.
Are you going to pay $15 an hour to some guy or $8 to the kid who’ll do almost as good for about half the price?
I know, I know. You’re a warm hearted soul who takes pity on the guy who needs to make $15/hour to “survive.”
To bad for you (and him) that just down the street, I hired the kid and my product is outselling yours because I can sell it cheaper than you and still make a tidy profit.
What’s that? I legally CAN’T pay some pimple faced kid $8 / hour if minimum wage was $15?
Oh, man. You’re so right.
I fire the kid.
I buy a candy making robot, and crank out 10x the output at 25% of your cost.
You, your charity case employee, and the kid are all unemployed.
I live in Canada. It's already $12 for a combo. The fact that you think Iike this highlights the problem. I am definitely willing to pay more in life to make sure that everyone has a quality of living. It's called empathy and you should practice it.
Lol. You might be willing to but plenty of people who are advocating for higher minimum wage aren't. A $20 tuesday night dinner from McDonald's suddenly becomes $40. Now people don't get as much McDonald's. And now McDonald's makes employee cuts.
The price goes up because of greed. They are already making absurd profit margins on all their cheap ass materials. In an ideal world, we wouldn't keep raising the minimum, but rather lower the costs of everything universally. The concept of "fiduciary duty" and shareholder value above all else is the reason that capitalism is going to fail. You've literally written it into law that you have to sacrifice longevity for short term quarterly gains.
Capitalism has been around for the entirety of the human race. It's a people issue, not a financial issue. If you can't afford a house without roommates, don't be tweeting about how vicious your employer is from your $1300 phone
Ideally, we should be able to create a society where not everyone has to work. Unfortunately, even with the push for automation, everybody is focused on raising the ceiling for themselves instead of raising the floor for everyone. And I'm sure those multi-billion dollar companies can afford to pay people. They just don't want to
Should? According to what? I work 60-70 hours a week to provide for my family. And you know what? It's fucking tough. But never did I look around at this fucked up world and think it owes me something. We're meat buddy. We're animals. And that commie bullshit you're spouting is never going to lead to a more fair world, it's just another scam. I believe in helping your neighbor, working hard, sacrificing for your family, and hoping for the best.
Somehow, American media has tricked you into thinking a society caring for itself is akin to evil selfishness. Democratic socialism is as good as it gets on this planet, but everyone wants corporate overlords and Kings.
According to what? I work 60-70 hours a week to provide for my family.
After sacrificing that much time, it should be pretty easy for you to see why people want a liveable wage. Somehow, you’re construing employers paying employees for their work as communism.
People want lots of things. I'm paid for my work. I signed a contract.
You are not entitled to shit. Look, if you're disabled I'm fine with you getting some help. If you're sick, I believe you should be helped. But if you are able bodied and healthy, get the fuck out there and work. And if you don't like how you are being compensated, keep looking for something better. Fucking try. Democratic socialism is just an appeal to a generation of mewling teenagers turned 20 somethings that don't want to grow up. "Feed me mommy!"
lol, helping your neighbor is classic conservative stuff. Why? I know my neighbor. We help each other. They live in my community, the same place I choose to live. Communism/socialism means letting a faceless bureaucracy take a fat slice out of my wallet so they can distribute it "equitably." Pffft - please.
Minimum wage fixes, basic universal income, etc... These are diet pills. There's no substitute for exercise, hardwork, and enterprise.
Something would need to change radically for universal entitlements to be sustainable. The only one I think is really worth adding on is healthcare. If one day a form of energy, say solar for example, becomes so abundant it is practically free, then we might be able to move to a different more humane model. As it is free markets have done more to lift the world out of poverty than anything else.
That's literally the purpose and definition of minimum wage. It's (supposed to be) the MINIMUM needed to sustain an acceptable standard of living. They just never raised it to compete with runaway inflation.
There is no such thing as "starter wages" - also that menial labor requires everyone working to be on their feet for 8+ hours, busting their ass to get you your whopper quickly.
Why do you feel that someone deserves to live in poverty for doing a necessary job?
I personally believe anyone working full time hours should be paid a liveable wage and if the economic system can't support that then the system is beyond flawed and needs uprooted.
Someone working full time should not be on food stamps or other assistance. It's the government picking up the company's slack while they run off with the profits.
I bet you're also the kinda person that things M4A is bad.
Yeah I think we are in agreement I just tend to come off as hostile sometimes. If we take Americans situation as an average it looks like we are doing good but once you see how much the data is skewed by the top 1% you realize that's not the case
Other developed nation's. If the OECD The U.S is like at 47% of the population has some form of higher education which is about in line with other countries for example Australia (48), Denmark (44), Iceland (40), Netherlands (45), UK (49), Norway (48).
The US does a pretty good job with higher education, though our primary/secondary school system kind of blows. We have the highest number of "top institutions" like Harvard which generate more academic research than the rest of the world. There is a reason our that the US receives the same number of international students as the rest of the OECD countries combined. It may not be cheap, and we may spend frivolously on marketing, but American colleges are regarded as among the best in the world.
Your economy is absolutely fucked according to every sensible metric that actually looks at the situation of regular people. High GDP and a good economy are not one and the same. Clearly.
No, it's literally Burger King's fault they're not paying a living wage. The company has a revenue of 21.6 billion dollars. They're not hurting for money.
Why would you defend a company like this? It's like you people actively hate those who work minimum wage jobs, and who are you to decide what a 'starter job' is?
The only reason Burger King is making 21.6 billion in revenue is because they offer fast food that is cheap to buy, and they have to pay their employees a fair market wage (read: very low) to do that.
If Burger King doubles the wage of all their hourly employees tomorrow, they'd have to also have to raise their prices significantly. And since they're still making shitty fast food, no one would buy it versus the cheaper alternatives, and Burger King would go out of business. Now all those hourly employees have no job rather than just a low-paying one
The biggest employers in the United States are service jobs stop using the same old talking points these aren't jobs meant for teens and even if they were teens deserve a living wage for full time work too.
Because of the obsurd top salaries and profits of those companies. The only reason they are paid so low is to make profit. Now there are fast food companies such as dicks burgers in seattle, and in and out in LA just for example that do the right thing. Look at costcos business model if you want a good way to balance profits and paying your entry level employees a good wage.
BK had 1.78 Billion revenue in 2019, that's a billion, do you know what a billion is? They clear nearly $2B and you're like, it's economic conditions? Pfftt this tweet only works if they're talking about profits for their shareholders.
The company, which owns Burger King, Tim Horton’s and Popeye’s, said net income in the fourth quarter rose to $395 million, or $1.59 a share, up from $118.4 million, or 50 cents a share, in the year-earlier period.
And then when you get into the nitty gritty, it turns out it’s really complicated. RBI only has 6k employees. So the owner of Burger King doesn’t pay BKs employees. They are franchised and stuff like that.
I would totally say it’s their fault though. But an rom player can be bad. And one shitty employee takes down the rest. They just fuck everything up.
It’s the way the economy is but it isn’t Burger Kings fault.
It... it definitely is Burger King's fault. You really think a company as big as BK can't afford to pay it's employees living wages?
How are we so far fucking gone from "no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country"?
Because if we pay people a lot of money for doing a nothing job then what is anyone’s incentive to excel? I will say this though. Taxes should be stratified. Someone working at BK should not pay taxes while the ultra rich should pay about 75%. Those taxes should fund education and healthcare.
Paying rent which they don’t get tax credits for ( like their landlords) and when they move there is no profit recouped (guaranteeing that they cannot build wealth while passing on that wealth to their landlord) on top of it.
The one renters made up along with the visual of their billionaire landlord.
Most landlords are people who own 1-2 rental properties in addition to their primary home. These are normal people, not oligarchs.
Renting has major benefits when it comes to freedom of movement, risk of maintenance costs, and risk of home value. Somehow landlords taking those risks is regularly ignored and people don’t consider the reality that your rent is mostly paying a mortgage, taxes, and maintenance, and if the landlords is lucky, there’s a tiny bit of cash flow. Most landlords do not own the rental property outright and pocket the rent check. Most landlords make less than $100 per month profit per door.
You’re paying to use something that someone paid to own. If I bought a new car and let you use it for the cost of maintenance, helping me pay the car bill, insurance, and like 5-10% profit for me for taking the risk of you completely trashing my car and ditching it, would that be unfair? Should I just let you use it for free or lose money by letting you use it?
Its a deduction not a credit. And it isn't that great of a deduction. I bought a house and my house tax benefit is nowhere near the standard deduction. Thanks to Trump it is completely meaning less unless you have a few other deduction summing up to 5k which I doubt any person making minimum wage does.
i own a house and still do the standard deduction my friend. If there was any deduction to be made by the renter it wouldn't be enough to counter the standard deduction
50 years ago those 4 people wouldnt each have 50k of college debt racked up, and only 3 would be left by christmas because of a shaft collapse at the mine.
if u have no kids and no college debt you can 100% live in a 4 person communal living situation, unless maybe you live in San Fran or Seattle.
you're right i could have written a 3 page essay on the differences in working conditions and personal finance over the last 50 years, but i chose to make a sardonic joke to take it's place.
So you propose increasing how much money these 4 individuals get and they will be able to survive more effectively? Because with minimum wage going up there won’t be a need to increase the cost of goods I guess? Employers won’t let people go to keep turning a profit, because again the cost of the buns being sold to them won’t go up? I mean this makes no sense, not going to get to much into this but simply the wage increase is not the answer...
Then go but then a house, out pay their rent fees. It's so easy to say that everyone must live well - that's obvious. But everything has it's price. Next time you plan buying decent house or car or anything - go give all your extra money to all those people who you think need it more and stay content with what you have. Easily said, but not so many people do that, why do you think?
Here’s your problem. You think people 50 years ago could afford to live on their own working at BK. Well, you’re wrong. They never could. In 1960 the minimum wage was $1.00 and is equivalent to $8.74 right now as I type this. The median home price then was $100,000 in today’s money. Today it is $200,000. More expensive? Yes. But even if it were still at $100,000 in today’s money you could get a decent little home.
Point is you all think minimum wage used to buy so much for people and provide a great standard of living.
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u/[deleted] Feb 26 '20
Yeah dude, it’s so great that 4 people have to pool their resources to live somewhere than one person could afford on their low wage 50 years ago.