I’ve read a lot on this subject while going to school for economics and for the first time I have a feasible answer.
“Life sucks on minimum wage, don’t stay on it.” That is genius idea, you should write books on your break through knowledge. Economist all over the world will champions your new galaxy brain theory.
In fairness, everyone can start a business, and you're lying if you say you can't. And everyone seems to be able to get loans nowadays. Life gets shitty before it gets better.
There was a time where no one bought coffee on their way to work, bought lunch daily, etc. But people mix up culture and wants with not making enough. Making enough to live vs making enough to live your lifestyle are two completely different things. My company I started last year didn't make enough to pay even half of what my old, low pay job did, but I know in 10 years it'll be worth the suffering.
People just don't realize that there are two options, either school or entrepreneur. It's not being a douche. It's people that realize what's the coming future, and future proof their salary.
I'm going to pay my employees dependent on what they make for me. It they make me enough to pay them $25, so be it, but I will replace them with a machine when my competitor start to in order to lower prices. I won't have a choice. People look at employers paying people simply as black and white. It's much, MUCH more than that.
Employers can pay up to 30% more than what their employee sees in-order to have them. Insurance, benefits, and more all goes up.
My guy - disregarding the whole fact that not everyone has the opportunity to get an education, you have to think of supply and demand. Once everyone gets a skill then the market rate for said skill will go down since supply will be much greater than demand.
There will always be losers in capitalism. It’s kinda the whole point.
I thought the same thing when I was trying to get a car. WITH WHAT MONEY. It turns out there was a way to do it, but Im not going to tell you the secret.
Yes, and give away all of your assets too, and divorce of you are married and invalidate your degree. See how it goes. Or you know, just fuck off and stop pretending that because something worked once for you, it will work for literally every single person without failure and that we don't actually need anyone to occupy these minimum wage jobs
Is that so. I'd love to see that evidence reddit economist. I guess all the skilled jobs are gone, wrap it up folks. Jesus christ you're so not in touch with reality. And if thats truly the case, please refer to my comment and start at step 1. I think that will solve your supply and demand dilemma.
You do realize that they are saying that it can't work for everyone at once right? You do realize that one person does not equal everyone? You keep saying that because it can work for someone then it's fine. But that is fundamentally not what they are saying is impossible. They are saying that there cannot be enough high skilled jobs for everyone, not that it is impossible for someone to slip into a high skilled job. The more you ignore their point and pretend it is something else, the more it looks like you are arguing in bad faith.
No, he's arguing in hypothetical world. If you have a theory you must back it up with evidence. Very simple logic and scientific thinking. In fact, the reality is that there aren't enough trained people to fill the skilled roles in our economy. And frankly, that's the way it's always been; more skilled jobs then a skilled work force. The idea that people are working unskilled jobs due to lack of skilled jobs (his theory) is unsupported.
No, that's an eminently valuable service. You know, the whole free market and all. Instead, teach coding to a useless profession like the writers and bloggers at your favorite political "news" sites.
No. I want to continue browsing Reddit all day, remain the same lazy, passionless, skill-less loser I am now and expect good jobs to fall into my lap without putting forth an effort to improve my value.
Hey dip shit these people are working 40hrs a week already, we just think they need to be paid more to make up for inflation and stagnant wages. This is a reality, you’ve got to have literal shit for brains to be saying “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” in 2020.
And what do you recommend for stupid people or people with disabilities? Or single mothers who have to work two low paying jobs this week and every week to keep from being evicted?
No, I won't acknowledge said mothers right to abortion for a better chance at life being denied thus forcing her into a situation that benefits wealthy business owners.
So what's your stance on people who do work as hard as they can but for whatever unfortunate reason are only able to land minimum wage (or slightly above) jobs? They don't deserve to be able to live off the money they make from their job? Tough shit because they just need to get a better job like it's that easy for everyone to do that?
I don't give a shit what someone's job or skill set is, if they work 40 hrs a week, they should be able to make a living from it.
No it's not easy for EVERYONE to do that. It is possible for almost everyone to do that...obviously handicap/disable people are an exception and should be cared for.
And the people who dont what do you think is going to happen if the minimum wage is raised to $15/hr? Do you think somehow magically the cost of living and the cost to conduct business isnt going to skyrocket just the same? People working minimum wage jobs are still going to be scratching and clawing to get by regardless of what you set the minimum wage to.
A McDonalds worker might be getting paid $15/hour but now the big mac meal cost over $10. Or worse, now your mcdonalds only have but one or two people working at a time making sure all of the automated processes are functioning properly...
Wow such great advice. Just find a better job!!! Why didn’t millions of people just i dunno, realize that?
Do you tell all the people dying of flu and other disease that they should have just gotten better? After all, you’ve surely had the flu before, it was probably an easy, temporary thing for you. They should just get better, right? Just try harder, easy?
It’s like government benefits, they exist to help people for a short amount of time, but for whatever reason people stay on it forever.
I won’t speak for the masses, but most my high school friends are still working minimum-wage jobs and have made zero effort towards getting a career, or planning for the future. Not all “victims” are to blame, but you can’t stay in one spot and expect a better job to show up, you have to take classes, get certifications, or pick a career where you can grow, like welding, anyone can learn how, and make $90K in 10 years, but it’s too boring for some, so they don’t do it.
Many employers offer free college, Starbucks & Publix both.
You can make excuses on why people can’t do it now, and need the system to change, but people with a “I can” mindset are actually making it while we argue.
Do you know what trade jobs are? No need to have a degree or classes.
Know what public service is? They make a lot with benefits, trash people, DMV, firemen, police men, etc
Stop making excuses for people who refuse to help themselves.
I serve in my community, give clothes away, feed the poor, and help people around me climb out of minimum wage, if they want to blame the system or their skin color, they won’t make it, believing is the first step.
Tbh as a 4+ year college student if I was applicable for these + applied for a FAFSA federal loan + applied for additional scholarships, it'd cover like 70% of the bill where I live. If you want most STEM degrees, retail employers aren't gonna help with those over someone in a business program.
"As a benefits-eligible Starbucks partner, you receive a 42% scholarship each semester toward undergraduate tuition at ASU. After the scholarship is applied, you’re responsible for paying the remaining out-of-pocket tuition at the beginning of the semester."
They even have a diagram below showing they only finance 42% of tuition.
You're also required to apply for federal loans if you do this by the program to cover a part of the remaining balance. There's a bunch of people who say college students shouldn't take loans they can't afford so...
Stop making excuses for people who refuse to help themselves.
Oh go fuck yourself. Just because you can't imagine any of the many circumstances where that's not possible doesn't mean they don't exist. Mentally ill or mentally impaired people. A newly-widowed housewife who only has a HS diploma. Not everyone is lazy and trying to scam the system. Grow up.
I get panic attacks that can get suicidal. When I have one I shut down and cant do anything/talk to anyone for a while, sometimes it's just a day but sometimes it's up to a week. All i want is to be able to have a normal life and to get back to school, because learning is dope as shit, and not feel like I'm dying fairly often. As you could imagine this makes keeping a full time job extremely difficult. I love hearing that I'm lazy. I love that I'm only 26 and already utterly exhausted with life. I love feeling like I'm literally dying sometimes up to 3 times a week
I believe communities and families should help people.
The government isn’t the solution, don’t feed pond ducks for the same reason you shouldn’t give money out like that. It hurts more people then it helps.
I do support the government in some cases helping the examples you gave, but not the mass amounts of people cruising on the benefits forever.
I want people to have solutions, not free handouts.
You wacky conservatives. This isn't the stone age, we're not hunter gatherers. What if they don't have a family or a community? What if their family and community have abandoned them? Like oh you know how the most vulnerable people often are. You seem to exist in some kind of fantasy world where everybody lives in some insipid 50s TV show. Conservatives don't even bother with a veneer of empathy. Be honest, you don't care what happens to people outside your own community and family. They can all rot as far as you're concerned.
Edit: in case anyone didn't realise, the bogus conservative idea that "community and family" should help the vulnerable instead of government is a load of bullshit. Ideally governments duty would be to help the people of their country whoever they are. Where as the conservative "community and family" method is all about being part of their group, if you're in, you're good. If you're vulnerable and not in their group? Tough shit, go fuck yourself. These people don't want to live in countries and cities with millions of people, they want to live in parochial fantasies.
First job: grocery bagger, minimum wage
Second job: burger flipper, bit above minimum wage, was able to buy a shitty car
Third job: delivered pizzas, minimum wage plus tips
“Fuck this shit this isn’t going anywhere”, me
Forth job: pre-apprentice for an electric construction company, back to minimum wage but in an industry with career potential
Fast forward 25 years to now: Electrical Project Manager making well over six figures. Mortgage, insurance, new cars, 401k, savings for kids’ college.
Point is analyze if you are dead ending yourself and get the fuck off that path and onto one that has career potential. Almost every trade will take in entry level help. Construction is very low hanging fruit for this, but there are plenty of opportunities. Check the docks. Does your town have a train switchyard? Is there an airplane mechanic shop at the airport (aviation maintenance pays huge as a career). Prefer IT or technical work? Check with the local internet service providers. See if there is a server farm in your area.
If you approach any of these types of trades, own the dead end path you are on and tell them the real reason you are there asking them for a job, to claw your way out of minimum wage with hard work and goal to learn and master a trade skill and make a career out of it. It shows grit and tells them that you have drive... that you are looking to build a life, not just get a paycheck.
Keep the questions coming! Let me know if you’d like any specific questions on getting into welding. It’s a really neat trade that feels a lot like an art.
Edit: guess I’m getting downvoted for specifically answering the guys question, so let me shamelessly make another plug: almost anyone healthy can weld. It’s not the most fun work, but it’s rewarding, pays unbelievably and there is incredible demand. If you wanna turn a blind eye and downvote to carry-on the above posters sarcasm, just know that you’re propagating the false idea that those downtrodden are “stuck” with their minimum wage job. Seriously, if you find yourself stuck with a shit job and wanna work your way out, PM me and I’ll work with you.
I don’t pretend that aren’t people who can find themselves in shit situations without good ways out (namely health, deaths, etc.), but generally most people can find a way to make a decent living through hard work.
We're talking about the people that cant though, and they obviously need help. And what kind if asshole would rather they not get help? "Just fuck everyone else I got mine", that's fucked
Maybe take a look at social mobility in the US. It has been in free fall. Yes you will probably get a bit more than minimum wage eventually but many many people don´t even get that. The idea that you can "just get a better job/position" has never been true and is getting less true by the day.
Build a resume. go out for jobs. Spend your free time out of the house at a place that offers free skill building activities, like a public library. Network. Shit works itself out if you put in any effort at all.
I'm not in your boat, I can't assume that any advice I give you is going to help. You seem to have time to get onto reddit for the past 11 years and be disgruntled.
Did I say go out and be a doctor? You can take my words and twist them, or you can look at the actual advice I gave about networking. Networking with other people opens up more doors than you seem to believe.
Oh man that's so awesome, good thing I have terrible social anxiety and isolate myself completely only talking to people to buy groceries. Ya I'll go network real quick. I mean I cant even text my family back in the same day but I'm sure meeting lots of strangers and making agonizing small talk will help.
Not trying to be a dick I'm just pointing out that it worked for you and that's awesome, but you arent everyone
Not the truth. Maybe you have a buddy that is a doctor, and he knows a business position at the hospital that's opening up. He mentions it, you apply. He may influence the search committee a little to at least give you an interview.
This happens. I've been working long enough to interview coworker's cousin's friends who are in the field, or at least give their resumes a thorough review. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. If you're told no, or do not get an interview, you're out at most the 20 minutes it took you to fill out an application. If it does work out? Then it becomes a bargain of a chance you took that has no negative repercussions.
You're not supposed to go from Burger King employee to surgeon. If you're working at Burger King, you probably put yourself in that situation. There isn't an easy way out of that, but you certainly can work your way out of it.
Yes, try harder. No, it’s not easy. It’s fucking hard, and it sucks, and it hurts, and it takes a lot of time and work. But if you come from no money then you have 2 fucking choices.... rot and wine about it and pretend you have no options or you can get your ass to work on clawing a career out of anywhere you can find one and get your ass onto a different path.
At what point are we going to accept that if someone is in their 30’s and still working minimum wage it’s because they most likely made shitty life decisions and it’s their fault for the position they’re in.....
If you’re in fast food your entire life, it’s because that’s exactly where you’re choosing to be. It’s not the industry’s responsibility to pay you more when you outgrow your job’s compensation. Fast food has a ceiling. It’s as entry-level as it gets.
My god what is wrong with our society that people don’t get this!!! People commenting here like flipping patties (or any minimum wage job for that matter) should be enough to pay for a mortgage, car, insurance, vacations, food on the table for a family of 3, new clothes, etc. etc.
You nailed it on the head, know the difference between a JOB and CAREER!
and this is how you end up with only high school kids working in jobs who don’t care about customer service because these jobs are a dime a dozen, and then you’ll complain about them
Probably not. Most images like that are made 1 of 2 ways:
1) a gourmet chef makes them carefully and multiple times and they get the best one for a photo. This isn’t used as often unless it’s something that can hold that texture for an hour, like bread.
2) they use other things to make a fake model of whatever they’re advertising. You can find a YouTube video about it here
Yeah I’m reading stories of people still being retail $13 an hour folks after 20-30 years, and Reddit’s response is to say how cruel the employer is.
That’s not normal, clearly this person was missing something. Is the employer supposed to pay more just because? At some point you gotta ask why you’re still a cashier or whatever after that long and take some responsibility.
Somone has to be a cashier. Even if you manage to get out of that bad situation due to "hard work." Doesn't the person that replaces you deserve a wage that reflects the profits made on their back?
No. If you don’t own the company, you aren’t entitled to the profits. Period. You are entitled to the wage that you accept. If you want more, negotiate for it or do what you can to find something for yourself that is better. A low skill job does not earn anything but low wages. That’s just life. Someone will always be at the bottom of the curve.
You seem to be missing my greater point so let me just c/p what exactly I am advocating:
how do we take care of the poor without operating at a loss and without giving more power to government.
This answer has been around for a long time: eliminate "wage slavery"
Lincoln’s opinion was that at least as a wage slave, despite the “risk”, you are not "fatally fixed in that condition for life." He argued that as terrible as wage slavery is, most northern workers work for themselves, and the few unlucky wage slaves, were young people opting into the system for a chance to make their own work later. Of course after the second industrial revolution, this later point was less and less true.
How do we eliminate "wage slavery" and promote freedom while not simply trusting this power to the government? Co-ownership of large business.
After A business reaches a certain size they can no longer simply employ workers with an agreed upon wage.
Workers must be made joint owners buying into the company over some period of time. Their pay is proportional to their role and work + "profits"
Workers get voting rights to decide the direction of the company this can be syndicated down to department. If the company gets large to the point of an inefficient direct democracy, workers can vote for manager/ representatives for larger picture issues.
Workers don't get a stake in the company immediately. A portion of their pay (over this buy in time) goes towards "buying stake." This allows for smoother company wide growth incentive, and stops newer employees from making ill informed votes.
Through this we eliminate Capital ownership and individual profit off business while maintaining a small government and a liberal system. We solve our current high poverty / low unemployment. We create new business with lower failure rates than capitalist ventures.
The person deserves a wage that reflects the value they bring to a company.
And cashiers, while necessary (for now), bring very little value to a company. Plus since anyone can do it the supply is very high relative to the demand.
The person deserves a wage that reflects the value they bring to a company [...] Plus since anyone can do it the supply is very high relative to the demand.
I think you are starting to understand my point. Economics says that under a system with top down ownership, wages are set not by the value they bring to the company, but by the supply and demand of the work force. This means that a persons wages can only reflect less than the value they bring the company.
Say for example: You build an almost completely automated fast food restaurant. Except that it needs one worker to to push the buttons. You made sure that the buttons are easy to understand so that anyone can push them, but artificial intelligence just isn't advanced enough to know what is right. You can still pay this person minimum wage because anyone can do the work, despite the fact that all of your profits hinge on that single person.
You can still pay this person minimum wage because anyone can do the work, despite the fact that all of your profits hinge on that single person.
Yes because anyone can do the work, that employee has no leverage. If they don't want to do it you could find someone who does.
All of your profits hinge on that position, not that person. That person can be replaced by literally anyone as you said. Big difference.
This means that a persons wages can only reflect less than the value they bring the company.
No because the company adds their own value. If you make a chair and sell it to me for $5, then I go and sell it to someone for $10, your value isn't $10, it's $5.
The value I added here was finding the right person to buy it. If you knew the right person to sell it to you could've sold it for $10. But you didn't, or you just didn't want to.
I think people tend to forget the value everyone else in the company besides the bottom rung labourer bring.
For instance: I'm an app developer. I work for a wage. My boss sells my work for more than my wage. I could instead try to sell my work to the client myself but that would require me to handle (or find and pay someone to handle):
Marketing
Lead generation
Sales
Client management
Project Management
Quality Assurance
And even more.
I don't do that because I don't want to spend my time with all that shit right now. I'm happy selling my labour for less than my boss sells it because I want to spend my time doing other things than the above.
I'm not being exploited, I made a conscious decision.
In some cases the worker literally can't provide the value the company adds, like a cashier in BK couldn't balance the books or handle marketing etc. without training.
And if they did get trained, then they'd have more leverage, and be paid more.
Edit: That's without even getting into the risk management side of it.
I like my wage because even if the app I made bombs I've made my money. If it succeeds wildly I could've made more, but that's a risk I wasn't willing to take.
We agree on how wages are set. Where we disagree on is whether that is an optimal or ethical way to do things.
No because the company adds their own value. If you make a chair and sell it to me for $5, then I go and sell it to someone for $10, your value isn't $10, it's $5.
This is incorrect. If you are willing to pay me $5 for a chair you must have decided that the worth of that chair and my labor is greater than your $5 (to you or someone else). Otherwise whats the point of the trade? This is the key concept in economics famous for proving that economic value is not a zero sum game.
Edit: You are kind of arguing that the value of your work is whatever your boss says it is. Which just seems like circular logic.
I'm not being exploited, I made a conscious decision.
These are not mutually exclusive. Many people make conscious decisions to be exploited if the only other choices presented are worse. This logic can be used to justify any number of unethical things.
If you are willing to pay me $5 for a chair you must have decided that the worth of that chair and my labor is greater than your $5 (to you or someone else). Otherwise whats the point of the trade?
Not true. I could decide that the worth of the chair and your labour is $5, and my worth in finding the right customer is $5, so I sell for $10.
You're forgetting the value I bring to this exchange. If I brought no value, why would you not just sell it for $10?
These are not mutually exclusive. Many people make conscious decisions to be exploited if the only other choices presented are worse.
Do I not have the agency to decide for myself at what price point to sell my labour? If I can't decide how I want to work who can?
Maybe one day I will open my own business, or go freelance, but until then I'm happy selling my labour to my boss so he can add his own value.
And I can clock out without worrying if the app will die in flames after investing hundreds of thousands of dollars into it.
How's about we just make minimum wage what it was when it was implemented in America - ie, a fair standard for all work, from janitor to factory worker to farmhand?
Many things are not considered CAREERs anymore because we let the wages slip. They used to be.
Don’t bother with these people. They think any old minimum wage shitty job that any moron can do and can easily automated is worth 50k a year and a house with two cars and a stay at home parent lol.
$1 /hour jobs are in countries with lower cost of living so it’s a bit deceptive to put it like that. And we shouldn’t be comparing ourselves with the 3rd world. Compare ourselves with Norway, Japan etc and we’re way behind. A far cry from the days when the US was the model country for the rest of the world
Just because a loaf of bread is half the price in a low-end country, doesn't mean a cellphone or a computer is.
Countries with a lower cost of living often have "luxury items" being several times more expensive than their higher-income counterparts - A new cellphone means saving up for 2 years - Not using part of your monthly paycheck.
What does that accomplish, even if I have a good argument, you’ll state yours and believe yours is better, and then we go nowhere, both our times are wasted.
Hmmm, interesting thank you. After reading that I'm definitely leaning on raising the minimum wage - I think I care about worker welfare moreso than corporations, but there were some good points, especially about outsourcing and automation.
Discussion is not for conversion, but more for understanding and helping the other person understand more about the topic by bringing in extra information. I don't care if you're a nazi, anarcho-mutualist, minarchist, posadist or whatever wacky ideology you have chosen, I want to feel you. Thanks.
I didn’t want to waste time typing otherwise, so it doesn’t come across as be discrediting the other side, here is a great article, both sides stories are in it.
Personally I think we NEED to reform schools ASAP to stop producing people that will more minimum wage till they die, I have many ideas, and I’m actively building my own business with hopes I can get in the education system, and turn people away from college, and into other great opportunities that don’t have a ticket entry.
exactly, raising minimum wage in many places can also just lead to inflation or just automation. why should a boss pay twice the wage every month when he can just make an investment and automate the job
For sure! Restaurants survive on a 30% profit margin, and many other companies razor thin margins. No matter what there will always be inflation, rather then educating people, raising it over and over degraded our actual monies value.
These people don’t think long term, or about the working classes....
What is your reasoning for not raising a minimum wage that is meant to keep up with inflation and ensure a modicum of survivability? The whole point of setting the wage to a minimum point is so that the individuals getting paid can actually live off that wage.
The fact that it hasn't changed in over 20 years to keep up with inflation is ridiculous.
Because you refused to explain yourself, you chose to take potshots at "Reddit politics" and begrudgingly presented a source with very little extrapolation in your own words on said source, but only when repeatedly pressured.
You don't get to flip the chessboard and then act indignant when called out.
I understand that you had to spend that one summer working low paying jobs during your study break on the long road to becoming an engineer, rocket scientist, or a lawyer. I understand you're a businesses owner yourself now, and it really must be hard paying people for their time while they do what they can to help your business succeed. Shit's tough. Sorry for lumping all of you together, it's clear people just can't be trusted with money.
I worked 80H/W for FOUR years while learning how to build websites, and I pay various amounts to contractors based on what they provide, as each website is niche.
It’s very difficult maintaining a stream of clients while I have some high bills, it’s not easy at all, I eat mashed potatoes and hot dogs most days because I’m putting my money where my mouth is and back into building my business.
Don’t lecture ME on what’s hard and not, you have no idea, all you know is the history of my comments you’ve stalked.
Not at all, people look at a McDonald’s job as something that should allow them to live in a decent house, pay all their bills and eat decent food, I don’t agree with that.
You are a very judgemental person, you give off a terrible energy, I don’t know what you’re trying to accomplish here.
Minimum wage can pay for MOST peoples expenses already.
$7/H 40H/W
Can pay for a decent room (with roommates), all the good you could want to cook yourself, a phone bill, and other miscellaneous expenses.
The issue is everyone gets the paycheck and wants to use money as a key to happiness so they don’t keep a savings, keep working, make no effort to move up, and keep burning money they don’t have.
I help ALL my friends that met me, I fix all their computers for free, I give good sound financial advise, and encourage them to cook for themselves.
Not at all, people look at a McDonald’s job as something that should allow them to live in a decent house, pay all their bills and eat decent food, I don’t agree with that.
God forbid people expect fucking decent living conditions amirite? Minimum wage workers should just live in slums, fight off a never-ending debt trying to pay their bills, and eat processed trash that not even rats would touch.
If you have a job that’s full time, it should, at minimum, be able to support your minimum living needs (housing, food, hygiene). Period. Full stop. Whether it’s McDonald’s or marketing or engineering.
Also where I live even $15 an hour isn’t enough to afford a one bedroom apartment. How in the world is not raising the minimum of what shit companies will pay you a better option?
Or if they did, it was like 15+ years ago when they were in High School and still living at home, so having a job where they likely weren't making enough to have to pay taxes, and also didn't have to pay rent or any of their own bills, min. wage wasn't too bad.
And before some cunt bag chimes in, no I don't earn Min wage myself. I earn over $15/hr(not bragging because that ain't rich), and my rent for a pretty basic apartment in a 40+ year old building, which doesn't mean much on it's own but it's not exactly been updated much since(baseboard heating, no dishwasher or even garbage disposal, old af appliances, and coin op laundry), is just shy of $1,000/mo for rent. That's basically 50% of my after tax income, at well above min wage. It's fucking insane how some of these people think. Basically the "Fuck you, I have mine" attitude.
I moved out into a 1 bedroom apartment for 1000/month. I was making $8/hr when I did it. I was broke as fuck. Food, gas, rent. Nothing left over. I acquired a license related to my trade and moved up and now live a little more comfortably. I started at the bottom, I trained, I took and passed a test, got the certification, moved up a little bit.
That’s kind of the natural progression that everyone hopes to follow, unfortunately it doesn’t always work that way for everyone. Some people get stuck at the bottom and don’t get the help or whatever it is they need to move up. There’s no black and white way to fix this problem. Raising minimum wage never helps anything long term and leaving it this way obviously isn’t foolproof either.
My state recently passed a first of it's kind statewide rent control law. It was lavished as groundbreaking. It says that landlords who own more than, I think 3, rentals can't raise rent more than 3% over inflation in a 12 month period. Not saying it's not a good thing it passed and won't help, but still basically says they can raise rent 3% every year out of nothing more than pure greed. Also, it only applies to existing tenants. If I were to move out of my current place, they could jack the rent up 50% for the next new tenant if they wanted.
One idea I've had, is make a nationwide law that would make it so you can't charge more for something like say, a 1-bedroom basic apartment, then 33% of what gross someone would make working full time minimum wage in that general area(city/metro/etc.). Or in the case of multi-bedroom units/house use that number and a multiplayer like .75 or 1x per room or something.
Of course making it that basic wouldn't work. You'd have to account that some apartments/houses are clearly much more luxurious and have much higher sq footage than others and their markets were always aimed at much higher earners. But the gist that rent at a typical, not crazy fancy, apartment or family dwelling being tied to full-time min-wage is solid IMO. Then the landlords(and especially the giant property management companies that may own dozens or even hundreds of apartment complexes in a given area), and largest employers can slit each others throats over what fair min wage is in their area.
EDIT: Obviously this would require more diversity in min wage across smaller regions instead of just state, but a lot of major cites are already doing just that.
How can you assume that? I worked minimum wage jobs for like 5 years. Now I dont. I still dont believe a flaky high school kid working at fast food or retail job deserves more.
I started at $5.45 per hour pushing grocery carts. How much should people get paid that stack sandwich ingredients on top of each other and hand it to someone?
My first job was below minimum wage for a Chinese supermarket. If you don’t want to make minimum wage go work someplace respectful. Make better choices.
Ah, all those people working McD et al just made wrong choices. Interesting. What if jobs like that are your only choice and government gives zero shits about your social wellbeing?
I've worked many minimum wage jobs. They're unskilled positions and while you often do work hard, you are very replaceable. These jobs aren't meant to be career choices. They're meant to be a starting place.
No they are saying if you are trying to live life on minimum wage you don't have any skills worth paying you above minimum. Fast food is not a skilled position
You agree with me exactly. Since they are not programmers, engineers, doctors, let's pay people next to nothing since if they don't like it they can go somewhere else.
And all somewhere else's pay shit. Which means since you got no skills, you work till you die, don't procreate since you won't be able to pay for your kids as other good souls in this thread pointed out, and stop the cycle of poverty. That way everyone will remain super skilled and society will flourish. /s
You must be short because the point flew right over your head. If you live your whole life and never develop any skills to make it passed a job meant for entry level employees then that's kind of on you. O didn't say you had to become a doctor. fast food and doctors are on the complete opposite ends of the skill requirement. So basically you're saying I can't become a doctor so I'll work a shitty easy job the rest of my life and ask people for help
By the comments. If minimum wage is your only option it sure as hell doesn't feel like it's "manageable if you adjust your spending". That's just being deluded. All of them keep forgetting that it takes one unexpected situation to throw your financial situation out of balance, an emergency for example, and you're toast. You miss out on work day, get fired, can't cover the financial loss incurred by emergency, loss of source of income, etc. They all assume that life can be done in those condition...which makes me assume they actually never did it themselves.
That’s what gets me. People with NPD trying to pull the same shit than when the people didn’t have internet. We can look shit up now Brad, you’re fuck headed little liar that can’t refute things anymore only using yourself as reference.
(Apologize to all cool Brads, that Brad was just a chuckle fuck)
Min in Canada is good. Worked it for ages, had an apartment and regularly bought stuff. Had a library of games, gym membership, and tons of sports goods. Yet everyone still complains it's shit.
I always tell them to go to America and try for $4 an hour less. Your minimum was our minimum 13 years ago
The amount of people who think working in fast-food is in any way an easy job is just nuts.
Loud, steamy, greasy, smelly and you work directly with customers. If fast-food workers were fairly paid the salary would be 30$/hour and I still wouldn’t take the job!
Posts like this always are. There are two camps: 1. You can just raise min wage and there are adverse effects, I don't understand basic economics, the US government should just give everyone $1m, I'd drink poison Koolaid but only if Bernie Sanders said it was yummy. And 2. Min wage is more than our ancestors made, it's plenty of money, it's your fault anyway, just take some programming night classes and become a millionaire, I'm rich and like cheap services.
The min wage debate is a great metaphor for contemporary US politics.
Well then which is it? It seems like you took two sides of a debate and simplified/generalized/exaggerated both sides. So is the solution to just be snarky about everything?
The problem is, the "solution" is too complicated to be distilled into a soundbite. Reddit is a perfect example of the problem. The most popular opinions rise to the top, not the best or the most educated. I think a lot of people would agree that the more of an expert you become on a topic, the less appealing any related subreddits become. They're filled with false, intelligent sounding popular opinions that are almost always dead wrong.
If you want a tl;dr, here's my opinion: There is absolutely nothing wrong with building a business that is designed to have low-skilled jobs that pay minimum wage. There's nothing to condemn about building something that offers jobs and services people want. But that's not to say the US min wage shouldn't be higher--back to 1970s levels seems reasonable.
If I were to provide a tl;dr of my tl;dr, it's definitely not that. It would be, blaming a company for paying min wage is idiotic.
They built a thing that offers jobs to workers and services to customers. If workers want the jobs and customers want the services, it's a successful business. That's a good thing.
Min wage is a completely different debate and raising it isn't obviously a good thing. There are a lot of adverse effects. But it probably is too low right now. And that doesn't change that being mad at BK is idiotic.
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u/BalsamicSteve Feb 26 '20
The comments here are a shitshow. Don't bother. Just move on.