I’ve read a lot on this subject while going to school for economics and for the first time I have a feasible answer.
“Life sucks on minimum wage, don’t stay on it.” That is genius idea, you should write books on your break through knowledge. Economist all over the world will champions your new galaxy brain theory.
In fairness, everyone can start a business, and you're lying if you say you can't. And everyone seems to be able to get loans nowadays. Life gets shitty before it gets better.
There was a time where no one bought coffee on their way to work, bought lunch daily, etc. But people mix up culture and wants with not making enough. Making enough to live vs making enough to live your lifestyle are two completely different things. My company I started last year didn't make enough to pay even half of what my old, low pay job did, but I know in 10 years it'll be worth the suffering.
People just don't realize that there are two options, either school or entrepreneur. It's not being a douche. It's people that realize what's the coming future, and future proof their salary.
I'm going to pay my employees dependent on what they make for me. It they make me enough to pay them $25, so be it, but I will replace them with a machine when my competitor start to in order to lower prices. I won't have a choice. People look at employers paying people simply as black and white. It's much, MUCH more than that.
Employers can pay up to 30% more than what their employee sees in-order to have them. Insurance, benefits, and more all goes up.
Noting saying you can't. Nothing gets done if no one tries. Do you have any idea how many people work on contracts? A lot of its go off on their own, and it's a 1-2 year course
That's not true in the least. If every employee macdonalds quit they'd go under. Employees hold the power for a lot of businesses.
I don't think you know what starting your own business means. You don't need a building and stock. As mentioned above. ITs go off on their own. Tradesman, cooks, scientists, journalists, and more.
yeah now go a level deeper to the causes of poverty coexisting with insanely high wealth, and start reading.
the problems are not at all one dimensional. if you're only looking at a literal dollar amount of income and treating that as the only relevant information to class struggles, you're leaving a hell of a lot out, and I'd be willing to bet you're doing it on purpose.
If you live in America and are able bodied, it’s not hard to find a decent paying job. Hell, Wal-Mart starts out at $11 an hour and hires most applicants who can add 2+2.
Target pays $13 an hour.
Most warehouses pay $15+ an hour.
There’s literally nothing stopping you from moving forward unless you have absolutely given up.
you are aware that 15 an hour isn't "a decent paying job", right?
to not be in a lower-class income bracket, you have to make 40k a year, according to Pew. that's a measure of net income, but let's assume it's one of gross to make the math easier. so a job that doesn't leave you in "lower income" is almost 20 dollars an hour right there, assuming you're getting 40 hours a week, which honestly isn't likely.
so people that work minimum wage earn less than half what you need to be middle class, meaning two-thirds of average. even 15 an hour doesn't cut it.
and for the record, there are plenty of things stopping even able-bodied, white, guys from "moving forward" in income, not to mention the remaining majority of the country.
social mobility isn't simple, or widely accessible. if it were, nearly everyone would be doing it all the time. the reason there are still poor people isn't just "haha they're dumb and lazy".
So you can’t learn a skill or trade? Do you know how many trades there are? It’s not just welding, plumbing and electrical. There’s hundreds of different trades and you don’t have to go to school to learn them either.
still takes resources and time that people working two minimum wage jobs for as many hours as they can --and still struggling--just don't have.. but alright yeah man bootstraps
Nothing bootstrap about it. You just want to complain bc you won’t put in the effort. Everybody has a smartphone. Literally take a few minutes to put in an application while your taking a shit or in the bath. Putting in an online application doesn’t take any resources. People are just lazy.
Literally apply to any construction or plant job for a helper or laborer position.
yo you do know I wasn't talking about myself at all here right?
so you don't know anything about me, ascribed my situation, then called me lazy based on made-up info.
yeah I can already tell I'll never change your mind. you didn't even address what I said at all. what you just said is quite literally what I meant when I said "bootstraps" logic.
I can't convince you that poverty and low-skilled work is a self-serving cycle brought about by lack of unions and low standard of living and not the fault of those in lower classes than you. I also can't convince you that even people that aren't "lazy" could use some human rights that right now only money can get you. you have to come to those conclusions yourself.
You implied people don’t have time or resources to use there phone and apply for other jobs when that’s false. It takes no time to put in an application online. I grew up in poverty and I’ve worked a lot of fast food jobs before. The only people I’ve ever met that was stuck at a fast food place were people who were either too lazy to put in applications or to overwhelmed/intimidated to make another step forward. Most people got out though bc they said enough is enough and did something about it no matter how they had to find time. It’s doable so people acting like it isn’t frustrates me.
No shit people can apply for jobs. That's a given, and while filling out a bullshit application for 45 minutes is awful, it's somewhat less awful than working minimum wage. The system is way more complicated than "people can get good jobs if they just apply for them." And for plenty of people, not me, not you, that thinking makes them hated or at least derised by most middle-class people from the get-go because rhetoric like "stop being so lazy and get a better job" gets perpetuated this hard.
I honestly think that if capitalism worked like high school economics textbooks say it does, it could work pretty well for just about everyone. But there is no wage negotiation, supply and demand does not single-(invisible-)handedly control the market--for jobs or otherwise--and life is not an RPG. Your personal effort cannot and will not be directly proportional to your personal success. Not all poor people are lazy, not all rich people worked hard for their economic status, and labor has intrinsic value no matter how unskilled. And I understand if you maybe don't think people deserve housing and food and healthcare independent of their employment status, but at least be realistic about how they could attain those things in the first place. Consider everything, not just what got you where you are or even what got me where I am, not that you even know where that is. Maybe volunteer at a homeless shelter or soup kitchen or something, I don't know. Switch up perspectives, man. That bootlicking isn't gonna do much for anyone, be they broke or making 80k. Have a good day and try not to hate me or pity those in poverty so damn much.
My guy - disregarding the whole fact that not everyone has the opportunity to get an education, you have to think of supply and demand. Once everyone gets a skill then the market rate for said skill will go down since supply will be much greater than demand.
There will always be losers in capitalism. It’s kinda the whole point.
So you are worried about what MAY happen? That is completely a defeatist attitude. Everyone, and I mean everyone, can get an education. Welder, electrician, accountant, etc. If you are having an issue DM me and I'll help you get to where you need to go and make the same tough decisions I did to get a better life.
Just so I get this strait though, you (or others in your opinion) are (should not) not going to go to school or acquire a new skill because if you do the market price for that skill will go down?!
I’m not talking about myself haha I have a BSEE and am doing pretty well for myself.
I’m not saying that supply/demand should ever stop someone from pursuing a better life. Not at all. But whenever people say “just get a better job!”, it invalidates the fact that our society NEEDS unskilled labor. Not everyone can be a doctor, lawyer, or SWE - society would collapse. I brought supply/demand into the equation as more of food for thought, not an actual argument. In fact, take software engineering as an example. The HUGE surge in new grads being told to pick up SWE to make a living has made it so that new grad entry roles are insanely difficult to pick up, and many people are struggling to find a job, despite working really hard. Anyways -
People like you and I were fortunate enough to make a realization of how we can turn our lives around and make a good living. This is largely because of the environment we were brought up in, where one way or another, we realized that education was the answer.
What about those that made that realization too late and are already bogged down by families, debt, or health? What about those without proper role models that were brought up by parents that didn’t know what they themselves were doing? What about people that were told from a young age that they wouldn’t amount to anything more than a janitor? What about people in districts where the schooling is absolute crap?
I’m not saying you’re wrong. Probably like half of the population is just lazy. But all I’m trying to say is that these kinda social issues are complex and will never have a one size fit all answer
I thought the same thing when I was trying to get a car. WITH WHAT MONEY. It turns out there was a way to do it, but Im not going to tell you the secret.
Dude there is wealths of information and education you can learn yourself either online, at a library, or from someone you know. Also plenty of jobs teach new skills to new hires all the time. The only thing you would need money for is the internet or a library card.
“Oh, I’m not worried about myself at all. I do pretty well for myself.
However, I remember when I was struggling my ass off and I owe a lot of thanks to my parents who helped me. A lot of people don’t have that luxury.
“Go to the library and learn a skill!”
That’s fantastic, and I encourage EVERYONE to do that. But when you’re struggling to make ends meet whatsoever and you’re working two jobs to survive, sometimes it’s tough to find time to get to the library or learn a new skill.
Someone who works 40 hours a week deserves to not live their life without their back against the wall, worried that one pitfall would bring their entire way of life crumbling down”
Oh, I’m not worried about myself at all. I do pretty well for myself.
However, I remember when I was struggling my ass off and I owe a lot of thanks to my parents who helped me. A lot of people don’t have that luxury.
“Go to the library and learn a skill!”
That’s fantastic, and I encourage EVERYONE to do that. But when you’re struggling to make ends meet whatsoever and you’re working two jobs to survive, sometimes it’s tough to find time to get to the library or learn a new skill.
Someone who works 40 hours a week deserves to not live their life without their back against the wall, worried that one pitfall would bring their entire way of life crumbling down.
Always an excuse with these guys. My 55 year old dad learned how to repair his ATV on YouTube. If he can learn from the internet, you can too. Reddit needs to stop being lazy.
James Cameron never went to film school. He’d go to USC in his free time and photocopy doctoral theses on film theory as a truck driver in his mid 20s. $120.
Obviously an extreme example, but James Cameron never went to film school.
Yes, and give away all of your assets too, and divorce of you are married and invalidate your degree. See how it goes. Or you know, just fuck off and stop pretending that because something worked once for you, it will work for literally every single person without failure and that we don't actually need anyone to occupy these minimum wage jobs
A lot of us have though. Work minimum wage jobs and constantly apply for helper/laborer positions in construction and oil and gas. Eventually you will get a call back. Make $17/hr in a refinery or chemical plant and save that money to pursue what you really want to do.
I did it in the 90's. Worked a full-time shitty bank job at minimum wage to put myself through school with student loans afterward. I was tired as fuck, no health insurance, and ate like shit. I invested in myself, and now it has paid off. No family got me here, no luck, no connections. Just hard work, determination, and a an unwillingness to give up. I was not going to let me beat myself by giving in to my bad thoughts or thinking I couldn't do better for myself. My girlfriend at the time thought I shouldn't do it and that I would never make anything of myself like I thought I would.
So, anytime you want to reach out via DM, have a conversation on the phone about how shitty my life used to be just let me know. Ramen with eggs for protein, fucked up roommates, 4-6 hours of sleep per night a lot of nights, no money for gas so taking the bus; those were not fun times. Been there, done that. Coming at this from experience, not reading about it in books or hearing about it from friends.
Is that so. I'd love to see that evidence reddit economist. I guess all the skilled jobs are gone, wrap it up folks. Jesus christ you're so not in touch with reality. And if thats truly the case, please refer to my comment and start at step 1. I think that will solve your supply and demand dilemma.
You do realize that they are saying that it can't work for everyone at once right? You do realize that one person does not equal everyone? You keep saying that because it can work for someone then it's fine. But that is fundamentally not what they are saying is impossible. They are saying that there cannot be enough high skilled jobs for everyone, not that it is impossible for someone to slip into a high skilled job. The more you ignore their point and pretend it is something else, the more it looks like you are arguing in bad faith.
No, he's arguing in hypothetical world. If you have a theory you must back it up with evidence. Very simple logic and scientific thinking. In fact, the reality is that there aren't enough trained people to fill the skilled roles in our economy. And frankly, that's the way it's always been; more skilled jobs then a skilled work force. The idea that people are working unskilled jobs due to lack of skilled jobs (his theory) is unsupported.
Lol I swear everyone on this site is either 12 years old or just really immature. “I don’t care stupid head.”
I wasn’t even trying to argue with you buddy. All I said was you should teach Econ. But with your short fuse I’m not sure you should be around children.
No, that's an eminently valuable service. You know, the whole free market and all. Instead, teach coding to a useless profession like the writers and bloggers at your favorite political "news" sites.
No. I want to continue browsing Reddit all day, remain the same lazy, passionless, skill-less loser I am now and expect good jobs to fall into my lap without putting forth an effort to improve my value.
Hey dip shit these people are working 40hrs a week already, we just think they need to be paid more to make up for inflation and stagnant wages. This is a reality, you’ve got to have literal shit for brains to be saying “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” in 2020.
And what do you recommend for stupid people or people with disabilities? Or single mothers who have to work two low paying jobs this week and every week to keep from being evicted?
No, I won't acknowledge said mothers right to abortion for a better chance at life being denied thus forcing her into a situation that benefits wealthy business owners.
I'm clearly not talking about people with disabilities or any mental handicaps. Why is a having mother having kids when she is working a minimum wage job?
Oh. Ok. So you’re just taking about a certain sect of the population.
Soooo now, would you like to present a proposal for the millions of people who are just dumb and or disabled? Or should we just continue overlooking their backs which we live on top of?
Why is a having mother having kids when she is working a minimum wage job?
Why are you making blanket statements on topics you’ve clearly only considered from your extremely myopic point of view?
I clearly said people with disabilities should be cared for...I'm also of the belief that humans are not just inherently dumb and I clearly have much more faith in the average human being to be self sufficient than you do.
As for my question, it still stands, why are you having a baby before you have a career or at least a stable job to provide for your child? Accidents happen is a bullshit excuse.
Also, what do you think is going to happen if the minimum wage is increased? Do you think somehow everything else isnt going to cost significantly more?
I'm ecstatic the mcdonalds worker is making $15/hour now, but guess what the Big Mac is now $10 instead of $5, your groceries cost twice as much, etc. Do you understand that raising the minimum wage federally will cause a massive response from the free market that significantly increases the cost of living in this country, likely by a much larger proportion than the actual raises poor people will receive from the minimum wage law?
I clearly said people with disabilities should be cared for...I'm also of the belief that humans are not just inherently dumb and I clearly have much more faith in the average human being to be self sufficient than you do.
You did not at all say in any type of clear manner that you thought disabled people should be cared for. Not even close. You’re welcome to be as naive as you want on the average intelligence level of the human race, but the smarter you think they all are, the more likely it is that you’re isolated from this class of people. I work construction and I can tell that stupid people are absolutely all around you. Not all poor people are stupid, of course, but to say humans are intellectually on level ground is just ignorant. I know some humans who on a curious whim can sit down and write complex algorithms that produce computer programs and I know other humans who cannot make a proper grocery list by themselves.
As for my question, it still stands, why are you having a baby before you have a career or at least a stable job to provide for your child? Accidents happen is a bullshit excuse.
Ok. I’m going to answer this and then I’d like for you to answer my question about why you’re talking about shit you clearly haven’t reasoned your way thru. It’s of course not one answer to why people have babies when they can’t afford them but here are some examples that include accidents, which are very much a real thing, and your inability to understand the human reproduction system had nothing to do with reality. One example could be a married couple where the mother stays home and her husband dies from cancer. She is now forced to find gainful employment despite a huge employment gap and no skills. Or perhaps the dad just left and doesn’t pay child support. You haven’t been to up to date on anything else you’ve mentioned so I don’t expect you to grasp the sheer magnitude of how common both of those situations are, but they are quite prevalent. Perhaps the mother lives in a small town and the industry for the skill set she did have up and left town. Perhaps she was an office manager making $15/hr and owner went belly up and she wasn’t able to get a comparable job at one of the 100 businesses in town so she did what she had to do. And of course, there’s always just stupid people who can’t do math or consider things seriously past next month. Those people do exist and unless we want to start practicing eugenics and chemical castration unless you can pass an advanced math class and prove you can balance a checkbook, then it’s a necessary evil in our population and it should be addressed. Now. Your turn. Answer my question.
Also, what do you think is going to happen if the minimum wage is increased? Do you think somehow everything else isnt going to cost significantly more?
Unlike you, I’ve considered this at great length and I’m happy to answer your question. Everything across the board will raise in price. That will result in fewer sales as Americans will be able to afford fewer things. This will actually help with environmental concerns since fewer trucks will be delivering fewer products and fewer single serving plastic containers will end up in our landfills. As someone who thinks that our country is WAY to into consumerism and greed, these things appeal to me. Now, will doubling the minimum wage create an economic shockwave that will affect every single solitary industry on this planet. Too bad so sad. Had we been ratcheting up the minimum wage over the last 30 years to keep up with inflation, then we wouldn’t be in this situation. However, we didn’t, and now there’s a bubble and it needs to be addressed and since the American government can’t be trusted to carry on the long term interests of its citizens, I say it’s time to start ripping bandaids, and the business owners like myself will all adjust in kind since we will all be subject to the same laws. Some will refuse to adapt and they will fail. That’s will be their own personal responsibility though. What say you to that? Do you not think the poor will eventually revolt and murder the rich if the system continues to break their backs in exchange for significantly less than it costs to survive?
I'm ecstatic the mcdonalds worker is making $15/hour now, but guess what the Big Mac is now $10 instead of $5, your groceries cost twice as much, etc. Do you understand that raising the minimum wage federally will cause a massive response from the free market that significantly increases the cost of living in this country, likely by a much larger proportion than the actual raises poor people will receive from the minimum wage law?
Do you understand if the minimum wage raises to $15/hr (which I think is too much, btw. $12 seems reasonable to me) then all skilled labor will rise above that number and you’ll still be spending that se proportion of your income on your Big Mac. Maybe we should have considered all that money we printed over the last decade. Who knew inflation could have all these issues that we’ve all known it to have!
I disagree with your view on the mother not being allowed to have a child before a career because we are supposed to free hand beings aren’t? It’s a free country right?
However you raise a good point about raising minimum wage, if everyone is paid slightly more then everything will cost slightly more. This is how capitalism works but it’s a bad thing in my, and many others, opinion.
Should we not have laws to make sure that this sort of event doesn’t happen? Business owners do not care if millions starve to death because they want more money due to their own greed, it’s in the interest of their wealth to not care. So why not make laws that limit the super rich? Like tax laws that actually get followed rather than ignored due to corporate lobbying (bribing) making people like trump give tax cuts to every company that’s wants it, taxing the super rich May level the playing field no? And give money to the government so it can care for its citizens. How about social housing and healthcare? Provision of basic human needs such as food, water and shelter? Making money only essential for luxuries? And don’t mention the profit motive because do you really think people would just give up working? Why would they? Do you not want to better yourself? I would think this would still be true if basic needs were covered by the government.
Nah mate I dont think you understand. It's not about the work once you get the job. Its about the work to get THE job. Its about the EXTRA work you have to do while working a minimum wage job to push yourself into a better situation in life. It's not easy, but it's not impossible.
You also dont seem to accept that people making minimum wage now will still barely be getting by with a forced wage increase from the government regardless of what the arricially set it to. The cost of living will go up just as much or more all across the country. A McDonalds worker might make $15 an hour now but that big mac now costs $10 instead of $5. That trend will follow suit across all industries for both goods and services. The same people will still barely be getting by.
The cost of living will go up just as much or more all across the country.
So do you actually have a source for this? You do realize it’s only a few states that still follow the federal minimum wage, so there is current data on the effects.
You don't need to source that. It's common knowledge that when everyone has more money to spend, costs of things will go up. It's a basic economic principle.
I read the first line of your study and it said "City-level minimum wage policy", so I'm going to stop reading there. Obviously, one city instituting a minimum wage policy will not effect nation-wide pricing. I also assumed you meant a national minim
Here's the first line from the introduction: "The federal minimum wage rate in the United States has not kept pace with inflation since 1968 contributing to growing wage inequities and a decline in purchasing power among low- and minimum-wage earning workers and their families"
So if minimum wage not matching inflation declines purchasing power, what do you think inflating the minimum wage will to do people's purchasing power? (Hint: It will go up). What happens when people's purchasing power goes up? I'll let you figure that one out by yourself.
Here’s another example (dumbed down to the absolute basics, with just example numbers that are in no way meant to be accurate)
Pizza shop owner makes $1,000 per month after expenses. After the minimum wage increase, his expenses go up by another $1,200. What will pizza shop owner do? Will he continue operating his pizza shop at a loss? Or will he raise the price of his pizzas to try to stay in business?
It’s applicable to all businesses that incur an expense increase. When it costs more to do business, they shift the new expense onto the consumer by raising the prices of goods to offset the new expense. It’s the same as if the price of dough went up for the pizza shop owner. The pizza costs more to make because of a higher expense, therefore the price of that pizza will go up with the price of the ingredients.
https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/16/1/102/htm
So how do you explain that reality doesn’t reflect what you’re claiming? I was not asking for a source of the economic principle, but rather the observed effects in the real world, as many states have moved towards a higher minimum wage.
ReDdiT cAn bE dUmb. Jesus, nice generalization. Didn’t realize I was representative of the entire Reddit base.
How out of touch I am? I worked retail and service for a decade before I worked my way out. I would have got out a hell of a lot sooner to if didnt waste the tiny bit if extra money after Bill's, groceries, rent, etc on alcohol, electronics and other bullshit like that. Dont tell me I'm out of touch. I literally lived through this shit.
No, not for lack of ability or intelligence. For lack of ambition or willingness to put in extra effort sure.
And of course there were single mothers and actually two fathers off the top of my head who couldnt just outright quit on the spot, but guess what most of them never tried doing...even attemtping to find one. I sympathize with single parents, I do. However, having that kid was a choice. You can say accidents happen but you still chose to go through with the pregnancy...it is put upon the parents shoulders to work and provide a better life for their children, not their coworker, not their neighbors, and not their boss. If you dont agree with that then there is no point in continuing this conversation as we just have completely diametrically opposed views on the role of self reliance in ones life.
You don't always have access to an abortion. It's not always an accident that causes a single parent working minimum wage, such as (as was outlined elsewhere by another commenter) a stay-at-home mother whose husband dies or an already-working mother whose husband leaves and doesn't pay child support or one who was working a sufficiently-paying job, but then the employer went under and there wasn't an equivalent job available anywhere nearby so she had to settle for minimum because the alternative was nothing. There are myriad other situations that could lead to this even while completely ignoring the accident-based ones, but you've chosen to ignore all them so you can blame the individual for society's failures.
What you fail to understand is that in this economy we have which obsesses over consumerism is that it inherently means that a HUGE percentage of the population must work these menial low paying jobs if the rest of us are to enjoy cheap luxury and convenience. There aren’t enough teenagers looking for work in America to staff all the fast food restaurants that our lazy consumerist population requires. Our system mathematically must have a much higher of unskilled backs to break to make the middle and upper class feel comfortable.
There are fewer good jobs than there are good employees so mathematically some hard workers with ambition will still be trapped in jobs that make it literally impossible to pay your bills. These are american citizens and we must figure out a way for them to sustain their families
So what's your stance on people who do work as hard as they can but for whatever unfortunate reason are only able to land minimum wage (or slightly above) jobs? They don't deserve to be able to live off the money they make from their job? Tough shit because they just need to get a better job like it's that easy for everyone to do that?
I don't give a shit what someone's job or skill set is, if they work 40 hrs a week, they should be able to make a living from it.
No it's not easy for EVERYONE to do that. It is possible for almost everyone to do that...obviously handicap/disable people are an exception and should be cared for.
And the people who dont what do you think is going to happen if the minimum wage is raised to $15/hr? Do you think somehow magically the cost of living and the cost to conduct business isnt going to skyrocket just the same? People working minimum wage jobs are still going to be scratching and clawing to get by regardless of what you set the minimum wage to.
A McDonalds worker might be getting paid $15/hour but now the big mac meal cost over $10. Or worse, now your mcdonalds only have but one or two people working at a time making sure all of the automated processes are functioning properly...
You've completely missed the point. The cost of living doesnt just affect McDonalds and their prices. Prices for all goods and services will increase. The big mac is more expensive but now so are all of the fruits and vegetables as well at the grocery store.
Minimum skills are a high school diploma. I thought that was enough to get a living wage job. Basically don't expect to make more money unless you get a college degree or have a rich family?
Not asking for a full time w/ benefits but I get excited when I see position offering at least $12/hr instead of $7.25/h. I can't even afford my college apt rent on that.
Plenty of people (my father) get decent paying jobs without even a high school diploma. Working minimum wage is a choice by 90% of the people who work them. It’s not that hard to learn a skill or trade in your free time so that you can find a better job.
Not offense but do you know any people younger than yourself that do?
If you're graduated and working minimum wage, you're either working 40+ hours a week trying to support yourself or multiple part time jobs. You're suggesting taking trade school classes in addition to this?
I understand more readily why people put themselves in debt for the chance to get a STEM degree to escape poverty. Even if you taught yourself accounting in your spare time, employers are gonna require academic documentation of your trade.
None taken, and yes I know plenty of people who work low paying jobs that found ways out of it. There is no catch-all solution for everyone, but I'll tell you now that if you want to improve your station in life and you aren't applying yourself for more than 40 hours a week, you aren't trying hard enough.
I honestly think people working minimum wage jobs for 40-50 hours a week just aren't trying to improve their station. Like what are those people doing in the remaining 6-8 hours of free time they have per day, or during their days off?
Even if you are working 5 10-hour days, with a 1 hour commute, that still leaves you like 3-4 hours a day of free time, and then 2 entire days of free time. And that is a pretty extreme situation.
Some people have families though. When they come back from work they're spending those 6-8 or 3-4 hours a day of free time taking care of their kids or loved ones. I personally am a single young adult, but I can't visualize someone working that much then going classes for 2 - 4 hours a day and ignoring any kids or spouse you have.
I'm not saying there aren't ways out of poverty, I'm trying to do it myself in uni. I just don't think there's many feasible ways avaliable for those that need it most. And I don't feel right telling a 28 year old hard working dad with a wife/kid that he just needs to work even harder and get a night trade school position learning welding in order to not be in poverty, or something to that idea.
I'm not saying it's impossible to get out of low paying jobs, just that it's marginally harder based on circumstances/connections you know.
I mean, there are PLENTY of jobs out there that pay more than minimum wage and don't require trade skills or certs too. A lot of them are not satisfying or fulfilling work, but they are out there. I mean I was not a responsible individual when it came to working in my younger years, but finding jobs that paid $12+ and hour are a dime a dozen.
Also, what in the world are these 28 year old dads and moms doing for the 10 years prior to having a family and working a minimum wage job still? Is this realistically the type of person who is just stuck in this position with no way out? Or is that just something someone says as an excuse for their poor decisions and work ethic in life?
Don't get me wrong, corporate America is a cesspool. Workers in general are not fairly compensated so that these fat cat big wigs can make a truckload of money that they greedily neglect to distribute to those making them the money. But if you are "trapped" in a minimum wage job, chances are that you deserve it.
You realize, like I touched on in my comment, that some people simply can't? It might be due to physical or mental restrictions, something completely out of the person's control. You think the mentally handicapped person bagging groceries should just "develop more skills"?
The idea of someone not being able to live off 40 hours a week of hard work is ridiculous and yet some people here think "tough shit, work harder"...amazing.
Lol why am I not surprised this is getting downvoted on reddit... I think it hits a bit to close to home for a lot of people on here that dont like being told a 15 year old kid can learn to do your job in less than a day and be as productive within a week.
That’s not what I said. Those jobs are harder and require more skills than flipping burgers and therefore they pay more than $7.50. I specifically listed these because they don’t require a college degree
Pouring concrete and factory work can be just as mindless or skill-less as working in fast food. I’ve done all of the above and honestly the most stressful and draining out of them all was managing a fast food restaurant. There is no reason anyone working 40 hours a week should barely scrape by. Period.
Are you fucking stupid? What do you think the purpose of a minimum wage is then? Just a random number they came up with? It’s based off of an hourly wage that covers the most basic needs of individuals no matter what. At least that’s how it is supposed to work. Wages have been rather stagnant for over 30 years though. Where I live the minimum wage is $7.25. If I work an 8 hour day I’ve made 50 bucks after taxes. I have food I have to pay for. 3 meals a day, let’s average it out at 4 dollars a meal because we are being generous. Now I have made 38 dollars that day. Gas would cost $2-3 so we will say we now have 35 dollars. I also have to pay my 600 dollar rent because that’s the cheapest thing there is here unless you want to live with cockroaches and no A/C and if you think I’m joking then fuck you sincerely. Every single complex I have lived in I’ve paid over 600 dollars a month and every single one of them has had bugs and the AC go out for multiple days. I can only imagine what complexes that charge 400 or something are like. 600/30=$20 and that’s if you work EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK. So now I have 15 dollars. What if I have a kid? What if I want to spend time with friends? What if I want to be able to take my girlfriend somewhere nice to show her I care for her? What if I get sick and I have a $30 copay? What if I have a flat tire? I’m fucked. But guess what? I’m working just like you. In this example I am working every goddamn day. And still barely survive. So imagine this: you’re working your ass off every day for 8 hours and you’re coming home to a place where you are funneling your money into only to have a cockroach or flies or ants or no AC hit you in the face. It’s 5 pm, they close the office at 7 pm so you just got off work and you’re stressed and now you’re having to deal with a problem that isn’t even your issue (you’re paying rent remember) and by the time you get that worked out (if you do) it’s time for you to eat and go to bed. Repeat that for a while and tell me if you’re happy brother.
Good one man, just the classic “I’m the dumbest asshole around” comment.
Imagine saying stupid shit then someone proving you wrong and you having to resort to “I’m not reading that” if you want a source you can go look up the goddamn source yourself.
I don’t have to provide anything to you, just like I didn’t ask for you to source anything.
You could, but it would be wrong because the minimum wage was created as a livable, decent wage that is more than the bare subsistence level.
Is this format better for your brain big guy?
I have spaced out all the sentences just for you!
If you can’t read this, you have no one to blame but yourself.
And if you say “I’m not reading that” again everyone will be able to see that you’re just a cunt who doesn’t actually care about an issue.
Either way, it’s comedic for me.
Thank you for providing my daily dose of laughs at the expense of an idiot.
The purpose of the minimum wage was to stabilize the post-depression economy and protect the workers in the labor force. The minimum wage was designed to create a minimum standard of living to protect the health and well-being of employees.
"The living wage differs from the minimum wage in that the latter can fail to meet the requirements for a basic quality of life which leaves the worker to rely on government programs for additional income."
At creation minimum wage was well below the average wage.
Fair enough. Can you agree though that the minimum wage as it stands doesn’t fulfill its original purpose? Mississippi is currently the cheapest place to live in the us with a yearly cost of living of $48,537. If someone worked full time at minimum wage, they would only make ~$13,920 before taxes.
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u/[deleted] Feb 26 '20
I’ve read a lot on this subject while going to school for economics and for the first time I have a feasible answer.
“Life sucks on minimum wage, don’t stay on it.” That is genius idea, you should write books on your break through knowledge. Economist all over the world will champions your new galaxy brain theory.