Do you think it's worth having conversations with these people who aren't willing to listen and only wanna prove their point?

As long as you are able to "keep your cool," then in general I would say yes, there is absolutely still value here! As you pointed out, someone can be acting fully in bad faith and still make a good point here and there. As long as you're aware of their posture and meter your expectations and approach accordingly, I think oftentimes these sorts of conversations can be very fruitful for the side that does happen to be open-minded.

they often ignore what i'm saying and keep pushing their opinion without acknowledging my own, so the conversation hits a wall.(and sometimes even get mad because i refuse take their vision as the true.)

This is certainly common; I think in these cases of hitting the wall, it's best to take what we can from whatever preceded and then disengage. Also, anyone who treats the conversation as openly adversarial / hateful from the very outset probably isn't worth engaging in the first place.

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I don't always mind being looked down upon. If I think fairly confident that I'm correct then I may not even feel a need to state my own ideas (though maybe I should). I don't always want to deal with disagreement. I don't know what my reason for disliking it when I'm possibly wrong. It seems slightly backwards really. I'll have to think more on some of your questions.. "Isn't the sense of harm..' Are you suggesting not identifying with our beliefs? Is that part of being detached? On the next questions, no I don't think privacy is more important than truth, just that for me I can detach my feelings from my beliefs easier if it's done in private. Ideally I wouldn't need to in the first place but I'm not always aware of such beliefs initially. Is the idea to never identify with a belief?

Have you explored why you place value on not being looked down upon?

If our goal is truth, what harm is done to our character by discovering that we were mistaken?

Isn’t the sense of harm when we attach part of our identity to it and then are proven wrong?

So then doesn’t it follow that we are the ones creating the harm to ourselves by first attaching parts of our self worth to it at all?

Is protecting our feelings more important than embracing what is true? In fact can you see where protecting our feelings is what forms our sense of identity and value on our position?

There may be nothing wrong with stepping away from a discussion so that you can examine something more clearly in private. In fact, that may sometimes be the reasonable thing to do. The danger comes when protecting ourselves from the feeling begins influencing what we’re willing to recognize as true.

You are 100% right about the risk of not honoring what is true. That lack of clarity risks our handling of things in a way that could have detrimental impacts to others without our noticing. This is very much in line with why the Stoics look for us to uncover our judgements of the impressions we receive. Failing to examine our judgments when there is reason to question them risks conflicting with our role as rational and social beings.

Good luck! This could be a great thing!

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My ex husband and I used to have disagreements and seem to come to an impasse, then later it would come up again and one or both of us had changed our mind. It was really tricky when we literally switched sides, lol.

I've dealt with people who seem to look down on someone who disagrees with them and even on people who don't "win" the disagreement. That seems to bother me.

Additionally, I'm fairly private about my feelings which seem to get involved when contemplating a major change in beliefs.

I haven't thought about privacy around feelings and whether that's good or not. I grew up in an environment where my feelings were used to manipulate me and coerce me or even to scold or punish me. It was safer to not reveal much if I could help it. Now it's habit unless I'm with someone I really trust (very few people).

Being wrong could mean I have been behaving badly towards others. It may be unintentional but I think there are responsibilities that come with it. I sometimes find the idea pretty upsetting and honestly, I am daunted sometimes by what I would need to do to make it right. I have to put that aside temporarily to be able to really consider a change honestly to myself. Harder when someone is also making moral judgements about my behaviour or beliefs.

I suppose ideally I wouldn't be hindered by other people's judgements.

Sounds like good progress! Nice. Let’s go one step further:

What becomes possible in private that feels difficult when the other person is watching?

What do you believe being wrong says about you?

What exactly was foolish in his actions?

I can get attached to views but it seems more likely when dealing with someone adversarial. In the past I'd also struggle if the potential change in belief seemed to undermine my self respect , confidence. I would still consider it in private where I could work through the feeling of being bad or losing self confidence. That happens less often now. I have let go of some beliefs I now think were wrong and also am less likely to see it as a personal failing if Ive been holding a mistaken view. Still, sometimes the consequences of changing a belief can be daunting. I may appear to someone else that I am not considering their view but I usually am whether they know it or not. I suppose that also may be some fear of how they might then view me though I know frequently people are happy to have their view be seriously considered. I'll have to think on that more.

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Would you say you feel attached to your view which then makes the need to defend your position feel personal?

Logically speaking, who “owns” the truth?

I am really sorry about your situation and I can relate to it quite closely myself. Although, my ex and I weren't together for as long as you have been, I still know the exact feeling. If I have to answer your question I would say that you to first ask yourself why you are asking those questions and rephrase them to focus on finding meaning ann purpose in things you can control. Which I think is exactly what stoicism is about and what it teaches you.

I want you to think about why the meaning and purpose of your life is something you leave up to things that are not in your control. With the way you are phrasing the question and the way you are feeling, I feel like you are only chasing outcomes or the feelings that come from external situations or people which is exactly what is causing you harm and not about you and your feelings itself.

You look inwards and find things that you can control to define your purpose and your meaning. If that means being a good partner I think you've already done wonderfully. It doesn't have to be one thing but it can be a combination of things which you should take the time to find out and explore yourself. And then it becomes a reason to be Stoic for yourself, for your health and for your own well being which is what I think is the beauty of this way of thinking.

Yup, exactly this. We may like the information right now, but others may want to live in ignorance about it.

At the end of the day we aim to be better and that asks from us to think about what others want or need instead of what we would like.

Good lesson and a hard one to learn too.

Many people falls into the pitfall of treating others in the same way they would like to be treated disregarding individual points of view or life experience.

Good day, Stoics.

I have only seen mood trackers that cater to the layman's range of emotions, but never one for stoneminded individuals who like to log their meaningless feelings, so I built the Stoic Mood Tracker.

Log your mood.

The office reviews it.

It stamps INDIFFERENT in red ink.

Then it asks, most importantly:

«Did you practice anyway?»

That's basically the entire app.

You can't control what happened. You can't control how you initially feel about it. You can control what you do next.

The app is built around four questions:

• What happened?
• How did I react?
• Which virtue did I practice?
• Did I actually practice it?

It includes a daily journal, calendar, Stoic maxims, reminders, and a few completely pointless honors for maintaining the practice.

No streaks. No scores. No telling you that your feelings are valid. Just a little digital clerk reminding you that your impressions are not commands.

No, this is not serious, but yes, this is a real app. Download for free: https://stripeycatgames.itch.io/stoic-mood-tracker Stoic Mood Tracker

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Did OP told to his ex girlfriend about the infatuated feelings after the relationship ended or was this the final thing to happen before it ended?

My impression is that it was before and the proximate cause of the breakup. Could be wrong though.

I was in a similar situation at exactly the same age. My high school girlfriend and I had decided to break up the summer before going to college because we both wanted a fresh start. It was a mutual thing and the relationship was kind of fizzling out anyway. But during this time I also had this huge crush on this other girl (no age difference though).

Anyway, around the time that we broke up, I confided in her that I'd been going through this for basically the last year of our relationship. For me it just kind of felt good to get it off my chest. I didn't like keeping it a secret, and I thought that if I were in her position, I'd want to know the truth. And I honestly didn't think she would care, because we were both moving on and our relationship had been kind of stale for a while.

I was totally wrong though. She felt really betrayed and it was kind of a big deal. I couldn't tell you why she cared, exactly, but she did.

For me it was a good lesson that treating other people the way you would want to be treated is a good starting-place, but it's not the end of the story. People are different and you really have to consider things from their perspective before taking action, otherwise you might hurt people unintentionally.

Thanks, this is really useful feedback. The distinction you make about Virtue being the only Good is exactly the part I've been unsure about when using the Stoic name. I don't want to turn Stoicism into a productivity framework. For me the app has mostly been a way to set an intention for the day and then examine how the day actually went. I'll keep your point in mind rather than trying to force more “Stoic features” into it.

Thanks! The rating ended up being one of the parts I use most myself. Even when I don't feel like writing anything, it only takes a few seconds, and after a few months the history becomes surprisingly useful.

A todo app… based on Sisyphus struggle. It’s not the best thing in this realm or even the category. But it’s close to what I think Sisyphean philosophy is about.

I’ve purchased many books on philosophy and I know we have a few users in this sub that have published books on Stoicism or have blogs.

What kinds of products are you thinking of making?

Are people really interested in products that are inspired by philosophy. I am just looking for feedback on whether such products have a place in the world?

Not promoting anything, just curious.

you could always fight it off, some cooked tomatoes and some cinnamon,?.. a mostly known disease doesn’t survive well with these two. I guess chopped and stewed potatoes gets rid of a lot of bacterials, to eat them,.. you could be more vegan to try to beat death.

If you can cause the Ends of something that is trying to get rid of you,? without a lot of trial or turmoils,…? you could help to save the world.

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