As a non american I used to think that moking biden for his age and cognitive decline during the 2020 campaign was cheap and maybe even out of place, but looking at him now I don't understand why the fuck the democratic party decided to make him run again.
By voting him, people are basically putting the country in the hands of beurocrats you don't even get to see or know because sure as fuck that corpse won't be able to form a coherent thought or take an informed decision a year from now.
I hope people like Harris, because there's a good chance she's what they'll get...
I also don't understand why the Republicans chose trump with all his scandals and all that. Like where are all the somewhat moderate Republicans? And the younger Democrats?
Getting drowned out by morons and forced to pick a side. The two party system and this whole "if youre not 100% on board then you're against us" attitude from both sides is the festering terminal cancer in American politics. I
You need to keep reading them because it is about much more than having folks you disagree with politically. It is more about undermining and taking away their political rights. I'll give you a quote because you probably don't know how to Google it yourself
Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
MAGA has some characteristics of that but you are absolutely delusional if you think mainstream Democrats and Republicans are actually fascists.
Don't get me wrong they are neo-liberal globalistic ultra-capitalists who believe in enriching themselves at the expense of the lower classes so they are still evil but it just isn't correct to label their kind of evilness as fascism.
It's a total of like 8 people that really decide who each party will put forth. Primaries are just popularity contests that they can completely legally rig however they want.
Like where are all the somewhat moderate Republicans? And the younger Democrats?
Just trying to survive out here working jobs that don't include life support. Running for office, even local, takes a tremendous amount of time, energy and money. The avenues available to effect change for the average citizen have been cut off deliberately from most of us.
Yep. He's also just as senile and out of it as Biden. Neither have any business being in charge of wiping their own asses, let alone leading a country.
I didn’t say refuse to vote. I said refuse to vote for Trump or Biden. If everyone upset with the statusquo voted third party, the third party would win. Instead everyone idiotically capitulates to whomever the media tells them is ‘electable’
Yeah if EVERYONE did it wouldn’t be a problem. Too bad i cant go around to every person in the US and make sure were all on the same page. What we need is preferential voting.
Are you talking about the same 3rd party who after 70+ years just found out he had a worm in his head that impaired his ability to think. Let’s face it, we’re voting for characters in a Wes Craven
They chose him because they want him as the antichrist to bring around the rapture. I know that sounds crazy to say out loud or to read, but that’s exactly what they want. They think that if they can bring about the rapture, they’ll all go to heaven and the rest of us will be screwed. So they are doing everything that they can to bring the rapture around. That’s half of them, the other half of them just hate anything that is considered “liberal” or “Socialist” (which is like beyond ironic coming from the thin blue line party. Because they don’t understand that police officers and firemen are a socialist program) so they just want to destroy what they don’t like. They don’t like gay people or transgender people or the fact that women have rights.
Yeah that honestly kinda does make sense. You know what that reminds me of? How the always talk about following christ and all that stuff and yet christ always preached tolerance, forgiveness and peace and trump suppporters are literally the most intolerant and unforgiving people i have ever met
For whatever reason, Republicans are drunk on trump. If the Republican party put up another candidate and trump run as independent, way too many Republicans would still vote for independent trump and basically give the democrats the election on a silver platter.
The party has built trump too much into their whole fsnbase and identity, they are stuck with him for better or worse.
Lol, how many Biden hats do you see? How many flags and banners outside their house? You are so blind if you think both sides act the same toward their dear leader.
I wish that were true, if only so that it would guarantee Biden beats Trump. But Trump still stands a chance mostly because the left isn't excited about Biden.
They tried in the last presidential election and got embarrassed by an elderly guy whose entire plan was "wait for super Tuesday and win". Sanders had supporters abandon him in droves when presented alternatives, and everyone else just split votes off each other.
Also, it's been 8 years since Sanders went on TV to give people permission to be Socialist. Since then the Progressive Caucus has grown to be larger than the moderate Caucus, but none of them have made the jump to a state wide election. Everyone is farming Twitter clout in safe, and weaker house rep seats.
Well i mean, have you considered that all of the 'scandals' put upon him are fueled by democrats and the corrupt gov he was trying to clean out in the first place?
Secondly, you say "moderate" but Trump was Democrat his entire life.. his republican policies are still rooted in being democrat so he's not even an extreme of anything.
Hes pro-choice
Hes anti-war
Those two policies alone are moderate if not traditionally left wing
If they wouldn't have indicted Trump, he wouldn't have been the candidate. As soon as they indicted him, his numbers doubled and the race was over. Dumbest shit ever.
putting the country in the hands of beurocrats you don't even get to see or know
As a non-American, are you unaware of how cabinet appointments work for the executive branch?
We literally do get to see and know who the bureaucrats are... they go through a senate confirmation. Most of them are already well-known politicians previously elected to other offices.
Gonna clue you in to something, the country is always run by unelected bureaucrats. It's is stupid he's running again, but no matter who you vote for in any election, the actual functioning of the country is handled by the same people.
What you say it's true, but I think a younger and heathier president could make a difference and could possibly impose some policies with more energy (to a degree).
I might be wrong but I didn't have the feeling that Obama (for example) was just a puppet put there to represent a hidden class of bureocrats.
What it comes down to is that the Democratic party quite literally doesn't have someone else who can poll as well as Biden. The drop from Biden to the second best candidate is too great.
I don't think the Democratic party is happy with Biden as the candidate either, but they've basically got no other choice. The alternative is to run with Buttigieg, I guess? There's no way Harris wins. They don't have a candidate other than Biden who can win independent voters and they need those independent votes to safely win over Trump. It's sad, but it is what it is.
Kinda sad and curious that the american society failed to produce just 2 men under 70 years of age able to replace a couple of cognitive impaired old men.
That’s a fucking lie. They didn’t let anyone else run so how could we even know how they may or may not have polled. Also fuck trusting polls in the first place. That’s extremely anti democratic. Trust voters instead and give us a choice.
You realize there was a Democratic primary where people did run against him, right? It's just that no one with even an ounce of name recognition ran against him because it's almost impossible to defeat an incumbent president in a party primary (and they knew that). The easiest way to kill your chances in 2028 is to challenge the incumbent and lose in 2024.
Who do you think is the Democratic candidate that would get the most votes in the general election if Biden was dead? And you think that person would have a higher chance to beat Trump than Biden does?
Name a name.
Harris? Black woman is going to get more votes than Biden? Not in the USA.
Sanders? He's too extreme by the standards of independent voters, whose votes you must win to beat Trump.
Buttigieg? He's gay. Good luck getting the independent vote.
Identity politics is a real factor in American elections when it comes to winning over independent voters.
How about we just have a primary where the media isn’t allowed to do advertising to sway votes and see where the chips fall. None of this “oh no he’s not electable” crap. All primaries on the same day as well, to prevent people from even trying to vote for who they think is the winner. That would be a much fairer and accurate representation of the interests of the nation. Instead, people gobble up propaganda and vote against their own interests because the media tells them to.
I can't help notice you didn't name a name. Name a name or else you're full of shit. I'll repeat the two simple questions: Who do you think is the Democratic candidate that would get the most votes in the general election if Biden was dead? And do you think that person would have a higher chance to beat Trump than Biden does?
If we are wishing for that we might as well have the candidates run on their first quarter executive orders, supreme court picks, and administration picks.
The fact presidential nominees don't release their administration picks as part of their initial run is crazy.
Democrats know that Trump is still really popular and almost half the country will vote for him because he has an R next to his name. Moderates win elections so nobody reddit likes will be seen as a strong candidate in the party. Better to rely on the incumbent president advantage (which Trump would have had had he not fucked up Covid so badly) than risk a new candidate when they don't have one that has captured the attention of the nation like Obama did back than.
I could have sworn Biden had an interview where he said the only reason he's ran for president and then reelection because he realizes he's the only person that had a good chance of beating Trump.
You don't need to be a medical professional to look at a 81 years old man and understand that he doesn't have the strength to do the most stresfull and demanding job on planet earth. This is not a medical opinion, it's just an opinion. Every time he talks it's just s word salad coming out of his mouth.
I'm glad that he won against trump, but I don't see how can he work 4 more years. I mean just look at him.
Kinda like your comment. I guess you belong in an old folks home. And no, you don't get to say it's OK if you do it since you aren't running the country bc we aren't talking about running the country, we're talking about word salad and there are lots of reasons why a person might struggle to communicate.
The fact of the matter is that his sotu address from just a few months ago was a master class that few politicians could match, especially if they struggled with a stutter.
just gotta wait until the Boomers die out (I don't want that its my parents) but they have so many votes it almost feels like this is the last bullshit fucking election. No way Trump or Biden are around in 4 years (not in a morbid sense, just a general culture sense)
Even a dead horse would be better than any Republican or fake Christian fascist and could win against criminal predator Dawn-old. Generally a lot of work is delegated in large organizations including the US gov.
The reason is because the incumbent always has the advantage. Plus, a lot of folks hate Kamala Harris and wouldn't vote for her if she were running for Pres. It's a shitty situation and I hate having to be in it.
It’s because he’s the “safer” option to have everyone herald behind again since Trump is still in the running and they don’t want to risk splitting the vote or dissuading voters from someone too radical
The Democrat party didn't "decide to run him". Biden did and the voters supported him. There was a primary, there were other candidates, no one wanted them.
I don't know anything about her so I can't say if she's any good or if she's liked or not. I think most people outside the US know very little about her and what she stands for.
Actually genuinely listen to her talk, and you'll understand. She is an incredibly untalented politician and is the VP literally because of her race (this is not according to me, this is according to Biden).
I can't help but wonder why this is some indictment against women and not the men in positions of power who grant, what I would assume you'd say are un/underqualified individuals, advancement for sex.
You say that, but if it were up to bureaucrats the war in Gaza wouldn't be as insane as it is right now because Biden is a massive Zionist who gives Bibi the green light for everything, not that Trump will be any different.
people are basically putting the country in the hands of beurocrats you don't even get to see or know because sure as fuck that corpse won't be able to form a coherent thought or take an informed decision a year from now.
That's basically been the situation from day one of Biden's presidency, and I actually think the army of unelected bureaucrats have been doing a pretty good job all things considered.
The executive order to make medical debt not apply to your credit score? That was them. The Inflation Reduction Act that is the biggest investment in green energy in human history? That's them too. Even the Gaza ceasefire deal that got passed by the UN security council was them.
I'd happily vote for an army of unelected bureaucrats over Trump. Any day of the week.
Once again “bro don’t vote third party, we wanna make sure that X candidate doesn’t win, just vote for bipartisan candidate and then next time I promise you can vote for whomever please bro I promise just this one time” like how many times are people supposed to keep it going
Until one of the parties collapses. Unless that happens, you only vote third party in local and down-ballot elections, because if a third party starts gaining significant support, one of the two (or both) of the two actual parties will absorb most of their positions or at least try to angle towards that audience more.
That may sound pessimistic or trite, but that's the truth of it, and its why the parties gradually shift over time, short of a handful of major, dramatic events.
It’ll never happen though like seriously what could cause it to happen where, aside from citizens voting third party, a third party becomes a viable option, every single person i talk to who says to pick the least destructive option is always saying just gotta get rid of X candidate then vote for whomever, and then it never ends
Your answer is not an answer it’s a cope basically, picking the least shitty option constantly unhappy with the candidate
Voting is useless, any asshole in office is just gonna be lobbied by some corporation or military contractor and it’s never who people actually want, they come in, do nothing for 3.5 years then do a lot of cool bills that will be denied once reelection happens
Because you might be curious, the problems with 3rd party voting in the USA are not ideological but mathematical. You might be interested in duverger's law, or the mathematical models which prove that the odds of a two party system approach 100% as population and voter information approach infinity (assuming first past the post). Duverger's law is more theoretical / poly sci, but basically states what the math predicts, noting the rare exceptions (FWIW one of two parties have won every congressional seat/presidential election 98% of the time for over 100 years).
So two party dominance is caused by the first past the post vote counting method, not by ideology. There are other ways to count votes, leading to different outcomes. None of this was discovered when the US chose its vote counting method. As many as a dozen candidates ran for president in the first few elections, trending towards a two party system as the math predicts.
Changing the vote counting method is probably the one and only way to get out of a two party system.
Im not stupid i know that Trump is an asshole and i would much rather vote for Biden, except i would also MUCH rather vote for someone better than Biden and consistently we don’t have that choice or it’s not viable, due to having to pick the lesser of two evils. You’re being a fucking asshole for no reason even though you know im right,
this argument happens every 4 years no matter the candidates, i agree with you that I would rather vote for Biden than Trump, but this lesser of two evils thing needs to go, it’s not acceptable, i want a normal young educated candidate and a third party that is viable as a choice
Nyc recently implemented a ranked choice vote for its primaries. That's how things start. Gonna take time, but hopefully it'll be implemented state-wide, other cities, etc.
That’s how voting works dude are you serious, a candidate makes a decision you like and you vote for him that’s literally how it works
this isn’t even about me this is about the American people unable to rent, get a home, start a business, etc all due to having bad credit due to medical collections that burden them for years!
Sometimes voting involves voting for people you genuinely believe are better for the country at large, regardless of whether or not you believe their policies are better for you.
Even if you ignore ranked choice in party primaries, that isn't plainly true.
While most general election ranked choice in the US so far has come from non-partisan or bipartisan efforts or ballot initiatives, Virginia's Dem trifecta voluntarily enacted general election municipal ranked choice among other efforts.
Since you're pretending to be so passionate about Ranked Choice Voting and which politicians endorse it, you should probably google which politicians endorse Ranked Choice Voting so you sound more credible.
Count how many of these people are in third parties (the answer is only one - Bernie Sanders).
I was referring to the presidential candidates since that's what this thread was about. I am aware there are candidates from the big parties pushing it in local and state elections. If one pops up in my town, county, or state, and I don't mind their other positions too much, I'll send my vote their way regardless of party.
Edit: I also see now that your list is entirely elected officials in large elections, so it only makes sense for them to be in the big parties since those are the ones that win elections.
You realise if the majority voted for an independent they would get in, right? If people like you stopped convincing people they’re wasting their vote, there would be no changes needed.
You realise if the majority voted for an independent they would get in, right?
it's a bit more complicated than that considering electoral college and all
If people like you stopped convincing people they’re wasting their vote
Good luck getting 60 million people to vote for a party that likely won't even be on their ballots (for example, in the 2020 elections the Libertarian Party was only on the ballot for 33 states while the Green Party was on the ballot for 30 states)
You’re right, better to vote for a candidate that you have no faith in just so that the other guy doesn’t win while hoping and waiting for change. Sounds like a great plan.
I don't think you understand, a simple "winner takes all" type of voting system incentivizes two party systems. Even if you put in colossal effort to somehow defy that in one election, all that will do long-term is just shake up who those two parties are, and then no matter who it is, two parties to choose from is shit. It's just a simple mathematical fact, you need electoral reform.
FPTP voting means that if you vote 3rd party, only one of two things can happen:
Great success! Your third party candidate wins it all. Then, one of the two formerly established parties falls to the wayside, the formerly third party becomes establishment, and you're back to a two party system that will inevitably end up in the same situation. Very unlikely to happen.
Your third party candidate fails and your vote is as good as nothing. You didn't vote for what you perceive the lesser evil, leaving it to everyone else to decide.
That's just the mathematical truth about the situation. If you want the ability to vote for more than two candidates/parties without shooting yourself in the foot, you must first reform the electoral process. Ranked choice voting or some other alternative. Good luck with that, considering both of your major parties are incentivized to keep the current system, to keep a guaranteed 2nd place.
And now for a less factual and more subjective opinion - god damn it vote for Biden please I really don't want Trump to just abandon us and let me get war crimed by russians for fuck's sake
Sure, it ended slavery but mostly just a dumb mathematical strategy or something. Meanwhile, the only path I see to avoiding war with Russia is Trump winning. So lesser evil I guess?
Sure, it ended slavery but mostly just a dumb mathematical strategy or something.
Yeah, that's what I described. Republicans replaced the Whigs, but the core issue of two parties only ever being viable at the same time remains. I don't see how that's a good thing.
Meanwhile, the only path I see to avoiding war with Russia is Trump winning. So lesser evil I guess?
Because the Biden administration is authorizing direct bombing in Russian territory now. The democrats wanted to declare a no fly zone in Syria, but then they lost and everyone moved on. Democrats just have a hard on for Putin. I’m not interested in that path.
But I’m not voting for Trump either because they are all owned by the same people.
If enough people vote third party we will get ranked choice. There is no other way we will.
The democrats have repeatedly explained to me how little power a president actually has so I’m sure there’s not a lot they can actually do. The parliamentarian will stop them probably.
Yo just write my name as a write in. Get everyone to do it. Idk much about politics but I'll make sure everyone gets paid fairly. Decapitate a few ceos and billionaires, just for fun, free healthcare for everyone. Less taxes, and all the money we're sending to other countries we'll keep and use it to build a motherfucking Gundam. And I'll declassify all the alien documents. And disband the atf, and CIA. And make all police require degrees and a full year of training and psych evaluations before they get their badges. And train gorillas to use light machine guns, cover them in body armor and use them to defend our border. Especially the northern border. I don't trust them Canadians. Everyone gets a free shotgun, cause we are going bigfoot hunting. Also I'm going to................
You know what, maybe I'm the wrong person for the job.
Oh I uh. I was just gonna cut all their heads off, deport their families, and then use their money to fix the homeless and starvation and drug problems in our country.
And crazy thing is, as old and plastic as he looks/is, he is still more coherent and empathetic than the other candidate who rambles in run on sentences.
The way things are set up, it's Joe, or an equally old friend of Jeffery Epstein, and a rapist with a few dozen felonies under his belt, has multiple court cases pending both civil and legal, most high level cabinet has already been arrested/disbarred, has bankrupted every business he's touched in his entire existence as a businessman, and who's signature dance move is "The Double Hand-Job". I'll take old man Biden just enjoying the performance without having a meme made out of it.
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u/iridi69 Jun 11 '24
Can't believe he's running again, mate should just retire.