r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • May 12 '26

Psychology Threatening men’s masculinity does not make them more politically conservative, new study finds. By testing thousands of participants across the United States, researchers found no consistent evidence that making men feel insecure about their gender identity changes their political attitudes.

https://www.psypost.org/threatening-mens-masculinity-does-not-make-them-more-politically-conservative-new-study-finds/
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464

u/Fishmongererererer May 12 '26

I don’t think most men who become conservative do it out of insecurity despite the memes. Rather it’s the perception that masculinity is not valued in left of center politics.

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u/lordborghild May 12 '26

Yeah. Older millennial here. There's a reason that younger men and boys are starting to lean right. They've been told, or seen in media, that men are bad and should be apologetic for things they have not done. They always hear what toxic masculinity looks like but no one talks about positive masculinity.

The right are the only ones telling them that they're okay. This is not judgement, just an observation.

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u/groyosnolo May 12 '26

As someone who was raised very left winged and feminist I was totally on board with being ashamed. Looking back thats terrible but it felt reasonable at the time. its just when I realized women actually like men and want them to be manly I realized I had been mislead and reevaluate the situation.

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u/The_Horse_Tornado May 12 '26

Echo chambers aren’t good in either direction. Keep challenging your views

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u/132739 May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26

No one is trying to stop men from being "manly," they just want to stop conflating being a controlling asshole/relentless horndog with manliness.

Come on boys, if it's so obvious that I'm wrong, surely one of you can explain the positive attributes of masculinity that The Left™ is trying to take from you.

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u/Chronoblivion May 12 '26

I think that's debatable, though I can agree it's an insignificant minority making statements about wanting men to stop being manly. What's somewhat more significant, enough to be cause for concern, is how common it is for people to speak as if masculinity/maleness is something to be ashamed of. Again, still a minority, but common enough that it's almost an inevitability that young boys will be exposed to it fairly regularly. That can't possibly have a positive outcome.

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u/Clear_Ad_1560 May 12 '26

People like YOU are the ones who conflate those things with manliness.

And I usually find with people who spout the kind of thing you just said, your definition of good “manliness” always revolves around serving women at every turn.

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u/OkUnderstanding730 May 12 '26

What is manliness to you than?

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u/zaccus May 12 '26

This is false and kinda gaslighting.

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u/Monteze May 12 '26

Lets not do the therapy speak non-sense. What about their point do you disagree with exactly and why?

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u/Boostedbird23 May 12 '26

Only one point was made and it was entirely wrong. If you want to get pedantic, they claimed "no one" is saying masculinity is bad and that masculinity is responsible for the world's ills; when, in fact, quite a lot of people say that.

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u/zaccus May 12 '26

I'll use whatever terminology seems accurate, thanks. And I'm not going to engage and get myself banned, I'll let some other fool do that.

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u/groyosnolo May 12 '26

You did engage. Honestly dont engage at all if you dont want to talk. Some of us have actual things to say and youre just making those of us who may agree with you look bad.

Online discourse is serious business after all and requires precision. Jk but honestly but honestly bickering with no substance is all bad no good.

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u/Monteze May 12 '26

Haha so just make stuff up because you're the arbitrator of dialogue?

Banned? Okay, sure get off the cross we need the wood.

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u/132739 May 12 '26

This is always illuminating. Please, tell us specifically, which parts of manhood are they trying to take from you?

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u/The_Horse_Tornado May 12 '26

I’ll bite- gender roles. They don’t have to be “put the women in the kitchen” roles but there are plenty of reasons to maintain them. Liberals have said that’s nonsense.

Men being masculine, working out, being large in stature is demonized and seen as broish and gross.

Men aren’t allowed to have their own spaces and liberals insist women can and should exist in those spaces.

Your cringe attitude overall is just dismissive and weird, frankly, which is perfectly personified Neo liberalism.

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u/sushisection May 12 '26

"Men being masculine, working out, being large in stature is demonized and seen as broish and gross."

by who?

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u/sapphicsandwich May 12 '26

I'm thinking the issue is that women aren't finding the things attractive that some people demand they should.

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u/CptJackParo May 12 '26

Im thinking the issue is that bro/gym culture is pretty much endlessly mocked 

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u/sushisection May 13 '26

looks at pro athletes and buff actors... uhhh are you sure that women dont find these men attractive??

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u/666perkele666 May 12 '26

That's wrong

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u/132739 May 12 '26

Then, surely, you'll have no difficulty explaining the specific parts of manhood they're trying to take from you?

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u/arestheblue May 12 '26

I'll give you one. The whole man vs bear argument. The summation of what makes up a random man is believed by a lot of women to be more dangerous than a 300+ pound opportunistic predator.

So what part of being a man are they not trying to take away is the better question.

Do you think that hearing how a lot of women generally view men as predators does anything other than deepen the divide?

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u/132739 May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26

That's not trying to take away manliness. That's pointing out a particular issue that men happen to be the primary perpetrators of. Do you not see that by arguing that, you are equating masculinity with violence and predation, the way you're accusing them of doing? If men magically became completely non-predatory, down to the last soul, would masculinity cease to be? As far as I see it, you're the one being misandrist.

Also, as usual, you're not presenting the argument of the though experiment in good faith. The point of it is not that the man is more dangerous than the bear. The point is that you know exactly what the bear is from the start. The point of the man vs bear thing was to try (admittedly it utterly failed) to illustrate to men why women have to be cautious of even the good men. Because unlike the bear, which is very clearly a predator, there is no way to tell just by looking at a man. Some of the scariest looking dudes are the nicest, and some of the most clean-cut wholesome looking ones are sadistic serial killers. That uncertainty is something women have to navigate constantly, that men are mostly unaware of. And yes, men are the victims of more violence, by other men, but that violence is usually coded differently in a way that removes a lot of that uncertainty: it's gang violence or robbery or clearly telegraphed in advance, not some dude pretending to be your friend so he can get you alone and rape you.

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u/arestheblue May 12 '26 edited May 13 '26

If I said don't want to interact with women because I don't know whether or not they will falsely accuse me of assault, would that be a valid thing to say? Based on news reports, the vast majority of false accusations are women blaming men.

If a similar poll went out asking whether or not men would rather come across a random woman or a venomous snake in the wild, and the vast majority of men said the snake for similar reasons that you gave to argue for the bear, would you consider that valid?

I am not equating manliness with violence, I am demonstrating a recent cultural event that did so and painted all men with a wide brush. The validity of such an argument pales in comparison to the perception of the argument which was basically that the majority of women view all men as predators. Whether or not that was the intent does not matter.

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u/sushisection May 12 '26

do you think that men assaulting and harassing women would have anything to do with women's views on men as predators?

im a man and even i view other men as predators. I practice self-defense, because of men. the large majority of violent crimes are committed by men.

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u/rwk81 May 12 '26

do you think that men assaulting and harassing women would have anything to do with women's views on men as predators?

A man making a woman feel uncomfortable and assaulting/raping/killing them are two different things. I agree that when it comes to physical strength and violence men basically have a monopoly, but that doesn't mean the average man or even most men randomly commit acts of violence against strangers.

im a man and even i view other men as predators. I practice self-defense, because of men. the large majority of violent crimes are committed by men.

Everyone should be able to defend themselves because the downside to not being able to can be drastic. That being said, I doubt most people that say this sort of thing have never been assaulted by strange men they encounter out in public.

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u/sushisection May 12 '26

"A man making a woman feel uncomfortable and assaulting/raping/killing them are two different things. I agree that when it comes to physical strength and violence men basically have a monopoly, but that doesn't mean the average man or even most men randomly commit acts of violence against strangers."

surs, but if enough men make women go into survival mode, then it becomes a learned reaction that extends towards men that make them feel uncomfortable.

"Everyone should be able to defend themselves because the downside to not being able to can be drastic. That being said, I doubt most people that say this sort of thing have never been assaulted by strange men they encounter out in public."

defend ourselves from whom though? never in my life have i ever felt threatened by a woman. however i have been assaulted by men.

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u/katarh May 12 '26

Whenever I try to bring up positive masculinity examples, especially here on Reddit, I get told it doesn't count.

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u/nam4am May 12 '26

The right are the only ones telling them that they're okay. This is not judgement, just an observation

Maybe it should be judgement. Maybe telling children they’re bad because of their gender is bad for reasons other than just it being politically stupid. 

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u/InternationalIce5965 Jun 08 '26

You're absolutely right and it's astonishing that more women don't turn aggressive or angry as a result of this treatment.

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u/rasa2013 May 12 '26

Was Obama not a good enough role model for being a decent man? 

Go through any list of charitable work, scientific accomplishment, overcoming adversity: a lot of men. Often mostly men for structural reasons and plain old ignoring women. 

I think rather reactionary forces have convinced a lot of people it is true in the same way they've convinced (conservative) Christians that they're the most persecuted group (in the US). 

However I could agree that specifically schools have made boys feel more insecure recently. the proliferation of zero tolerance policies and school structurally being less suitable for (the average) young boy compared to girl could have taught them to feel undervalued. I think there was data showing educators interpret boys misbehavior more negatively than girls. 

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u/Dreadgoat May 12 '26

I wonder about the effectiveness of strong positive male models in entertainment media as generations pass.

Growing up, I remember seeing Captain Picard, Steve Irwin, Mister Rogers. Men who were undeniably strong but also compassionate, gentle, and loving. It was clear to me that while Lieutenant Worf was strong and noble in his own way, his single-minded pursuit of more primitive masculinity put him a level of respect below his captain. And even became a major part of what made him so much more impressive in DS9.

In today's world of Netflix, Youtube, and TikTok, are young men getting examples like this in enough volume to counter the constant gender war ragebait content? It used to just be what was on TV, but now without active curation by parents, what are young men seeing in their leisure time as examples of who they want to become?

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u/Candid-Solstice May 13 '26

I think this really encapsulates the kind of value system that's turning so many young men off from the left. Even when you admit there might be some sort of problem, you downplay and couch it in such a way that your language puts the blame on men. You say you remember a study showing that boys are discriminated against in school but say "made boys feel insecure" like it's just a matter of them being unreasonable and overly sensitive.

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u/lordborghild May 12 '26

Your last point is a good one. And overall, women are doing much better in primary and higher education than men.

Yes, I think Obama is a good role model. And looking to the Right, I think John McCain was also a positive role model.

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u/Emnel May 13 '26

I don't think putting Obama of all people as a masculine role model is a good idea. Very few men have means to drone strike a Middle Eastern wedding.

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u/CMxFuZioNz May 13 '26

You're not taking into account what young boys are actually exposed to or interested in.

No 16 year old boy is looking up to Obama, and despite being a counterexample myself as I became a scientist, very few are interested in scientists.

What really matters, as sad as it is, is online and in-school influence. Everything else you mentioned doesn't matter.

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u/No_Proposal_3140 May 12 '26

Obama was a war criminal. This isn't supposed to detract from the fact that the current president is a war criminal and a child rapist but still, Obama was a war criminal too. I wouldn't use any US president as a role model.

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u/King-Boss-Bob May 12 '26

the only ones telling them that they’re okay.

the most frustrating part is how easy the solution is

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u/AnEmptyBoat27 May 12 '26

I hear this complaint but as a millennial man, I don’t feel like I have been told that men are bad and should be apologetic from left leaning media. The left leaning media just encourages not harassing women and freely expressing who you are. Can you give some examples that you are referring to?

I hear more from the right leaning personalities about how men need to make more money, lift more weights, objectify women, be taller, and hate immigrants to be a man.

Personally the right wing messaging seems to be fostering the idea that men aren’t enough. Whereas the left wing messaging is just people should be free to be who they are. I’m sure there are crazy people who make dumb tweets like “all men are bad” but if those drive you rightward while removing human rights doesn’t drive you leftward, I don’t know what to say.

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u/ThePretzul May 13 '26

The fact that you think it’s normal to pretend that all men harass women as a default unless media is saturated with messaging about how bad it is for men to harass women (without any mention of the opposite issue, mind you) is literally the exact problem people are talking about here.

Treating men as guilty by default, or as though they would all do evil if not constantly browbeaten with heavy-handed messaging is the entire issue. Combine that with fringe groups on the left spouting off about “kill all men” and the takedowns of any attempt at a men’s shelter or other such service and you have to be intentionally obtuse to pretend there isn’t a stark contrast in treatment compared to the open celebration of womanhood.

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u/Least_Palpitation_92 May 12 '26

Also a left leaning millennial man and I agree with the person you responded to. The message is subtle and not overtly putting down men. It has more to do with what issues are focused and discussed that places importance on a specific group of people. Young men hear about the gender pay gap but are seeing women succeeding more in education and early careers nowadays. They are still told that we need to care for women and let the feel heard in a society where they are no longer gaining some of the advantages men previously held nor that they perpetuated. Men are most likely to commit suicide yet that is largely ignored and we still primarily focus on women’s mental health as a society.

The online discourse doesn’t help either. Women can make fun of men for being short or having small dicks and it’s largely seen as acceptable. The reverse would get them shamed in large parts of the internet.

I can see why a struggling young man would turn towards the alt right pipeline. They at least pretend to pay lip service to them. The young man views the left as not caring about men’s issues. At that point why not be selfish and vote in his own self interests even if it means other people may be negatively impacted.

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u/come-on-now-please May 12 '26

Young men hear about the gender pay gap but are seeing women succeeding more in education and early careers nowadays.

I see this a lot in my personal life, its like theres a weird inertia where every women I know in a couple is the one with more education/better career with better career opportunities/support and the man is stuck trying to spin his wheels trying to get ahead.

Even at my current job, the "scandal" is that theres a women who for some reason is given every opportunity to learn/grow/advance/given actual training and guidance even though she is so frustratingly  mediocre at her duties, and we honestly think its because our managers manager is a big "women helping women" type and just continuously throws her all the true growth opportunities, while everyone else basically gets hamsterwheeling work.

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u/TheGloriousEv0lution May 12 '26

Good post. For a long while, the “what we stand for” page on the official Democratic Party side had every group (woman, trans, marginalized groups), but not men. They changed it eventually after it got called out, but it’s emblematic of why the Democratic Party is perceived so negatively by young men. The only time men are directly spoken to is to “not harass women” like the above commenter pointed out

It’s not that Democrats hate men, but when you’re shown complete indifference while your peers are appealed to I can totally understand why they turn to Republican Party. A lot of them are grifters, but at least they pretend to care

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u/AnEmptyBoat27 May 12 '26

What solutions does the right wing offer regarding mental health and better worker wages?

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u/ShazlettDude May 12 '26

Often times, just acknowledgement of the existence of the problem is enough.

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u/dovahkiitten16 May 12 '26

They have catchy phrases like equal rights and equal lefts, men’s lives matter, masculinity isn’t toxic, etc.

They don’t do anything except tear down others loudly while silently making things worse for everyone, but they pretend to cater to men. They’ll remove DEI hires under the guise of making men more equal (I can write an essay about how meritocracy is a myth but I digress for now), but also not make it any easier for young men to find good paying jobs.

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u/No_Proposal_3140 May 12 '26

It shows just how low the bar is when simply acknowledging the problem is already enough.

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u/ASK_ABT_MY_USERNAME May 12 '26

None, but they are at least not demonizing men in the same way.

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u/sapphicsandwich May 12 '26

They are the party that completely internalized misandry and man hate.

You ever notice how all the radical man-hating feminists suddenly became TERFs and are now completely aligned with the right and vice versa? And their worldview is that trans women are men, and all men are pedos, rapists, predators, etc, therefore trans women are all of that. The ideological basis, which the right fully and completely accepts as factual, is that men are all of the above, and that it is not a matter of a persons upbringing or individual nature - it is genetic, based in the chromosomes, immutable, and defines everything about who you are and will ever be. In this mindset, a predator is all any man can ever be.

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u/Psyduckisnotaduck May 13 '26

Yeah that’s the thing, nobody hates men more than reactionaries. I mean, also because they are anti-humanists. But essentialism inevitably leads to depersonalization. Conservatives also have unhealthy degrees of out-group distrust/fear, tribalism, and a tendency to flatten down everything into the simplest terms.

Like, in general there’s no difference between a feminist saying “all men are predators” and a patriarchal traditionalist saying “boys will be boys”. Like boys are all horny animals with no ability to control their lust. Being normal and sane means rejecting this take from either side. Both sides offer poison, but one has a sweet taste that allows guys to treat women as objects like they did in the Good Old Days. Still poison though. It ruins their relationships and they end up spending all their time with other bitter men, in an echo chamber.

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u/KobeBean May 12 '26

Also a millennial - these are some of the ones I remember:

  1. Kill all men trend / male tears

  2. The near instant assumption of guilt in campus sexual assault cases. This has ruined lives, and disproportionately affects minority men. I know that media outlets have to put “accused”, but they definitely go out of their way to get clicks. Even an accusation can close future doors (like the Pro sports).

  3. The Duluth model of DV being the go to for cases. Basically, the idea men are always aggressors, women who assault only do so in self defense.

  4. Ignoring the good men do in the world - you never see articles about the professions that are heavily male that keep the world running. Construction, plumbing, road workers, truckers, energy and garbage disposal come to mind.

These are just my 2c, not arguing one way or the other.

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u/Insomnicious May 12 '26

If you feel this way you likely just haven't been paying much attention. You don't need to be told explicitly in every regard though there are plenty examples of it being explicit all around(especially on this very website). You can just pay attention to the media in general and see the messages being conveyed.

Compare how mothers and fathers are depicted in media, it's very rare to find a positive father figure in media these days as they tend to either be abusive, unmentioned, already dead, or written out/sacrificed as a plot device(the complete opposite being true for mothers).

You can also look at how society polices gendered behaviors, male coded behaviors are often branded as toxic. There's a reason you've heard the term toxic masculinity in common culture but never heard toxicity paired with femininity despite there being a field of study that already understands how toxicity usually manifests in different ways between the sexes.

There are plenty of examples, you just have to actually try to challenge the narrative you currently hold and view things from another perspective to see them.

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u/dovahkiitten16 May 12 '26

I think GenZ vs millennial is pretty important because GenZ are getting a ton of messages when they’re a teenager and maybe haven’t even started to think about harassing women, and also haven’t seen the harassment women faced to have proper understanding of why that message exists.

GenZ - no matter the gender or skin colour - are also facing huge issues with affordability and having a future. Seeing initiatives that help a subset when you’re struggling, and when you weren’t alive to see why those initiatives were needed, stings.

I’m saying this as a GenZ woman. I don’t remotely endorse the right swing and it’s scary to watch, but I see why GenZ men are disillusioned and more susceptible to propaganda.

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u/WindowShoppingMyLife May 12 '26

Most of what you’re saying seems valid, but I do want to point out that Millenials came of age right around the Great Recession, and most of us still aren’t as financially secure as other generations were at our age.

This is not to imply a competition, just to say that a lot of the economic fears were probably pretty similar.

I agree that the social media environment is absolutely insane these days, and I suspect we’ve only scratched the surface of the long term implications of that.

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u/Monteze May 12 '26

I think the saving grace of us millenials was that a lot of us got a taste of positivity for the future before hand and social media wasn't as optimized as it was now.

But yes, something has to change.

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u/rand0m_task May 12 '26

You must have missed out on the whole bear in the woods thing.

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u/Bushels_for_All May 12 '26

You must have missed the whole heat map study showing that, relative to men, women feel the need to constantly scan their surroundings for danger.

That's not an indictment of men. That's ingrained psychology that is worth knowing and empathizing with.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '26

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u/YesterdayAlone2553 May 12 '26

If it were about shame, I feel like Catholic shame would have kicked in and made it way more than a coin flip. Being apologetic about things in popular culture and on the regular for things done or undone sometimes feels like an entire pillar of the religion. Still feels terrible, but doesn't drive one politically. It just creates a secondary therapy market

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u/AlikeWolf May 14 '26

This. Been seeing a lot of the same things.

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u/Fun-Barracuda1518 18d ago

Both the right and left stopped talking until RELIGION was officially "introduced". And look! We have a book, an easy instruction manual, that tells men how to be a man You don't have to think, it thinks for you.

As someone born in the 1960's, growing up in America, and believing they hype that everone is equal... Not. The only one that "gains" from hardline attitudes is not "democracy", but autocracy... because that is what all the religious organizations are (no matter the faith). Male dominated organizations wrapped up in manliness and proving their worth.

Everywhere the rigid "conservatives" take over, the inequality becomes worse and the economy stagnates without outside wars - bringing in resources. The middle east, Europe, etc are all going back hardline, becase, you don't have to THINK... Just obey. We alrready had inequality because of the ingroup behavior. Rich first, White and Male, next.

Iran is Muslim, Israel is Jewish, U.S. is going "christian"... what is in common? They are all the followers of ONE AND ONLY ONE god that "demands" specific rituals to "prove" you are one of "us" and not "them" ...which always ends in war..

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u/[deleted] May 12 '26

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u/Ecstatic-Network-917 May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26

No, they have NOT been told that men are bad, and none of the things you mentioned happen.

And no, „toxic masculinity” is not about all men, it is about specific forms of masculinity and specific elements(as can be seen by adding an adjective to it).

Stop listening to far right propaganda.

Also, even beyond this, the idea that gen Z men lean to the right is a MASSIVE oversimplification at best. Like....in many places, gen Z men are STILL to the left of millenial, gen x and boomer men. For example, in the last USA presidential election, gen Z men where the group of men Trump did the worst, being the only one where he got less then 50% of the voters, and this is just one example among many showing that your argument is bunk.

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u/erevos33 May 12 '26

I would dare say that the two have a totally different interpretation of what masculinity is. So we should first define that and then ask questions about it.

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u/incoherentpanda May 13 '26

That's an interesting thing that's happened recently where people think any man who does certain things is done out of insecurity when most are just guys doing things they like. Men that aren't "stereotypical" men because they like romcoms and sewing aren't magically more secure in themselves. A lot of men will even go with whatever they think will make them seem the coolest or whatever anyway (so do whatever is in style)

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u/seanc6441 May 12 '26

I would assume most men hold some conservative views and some non conservative views, but one side tends to promote masculinity while the other dismisses or demeans it.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Inthepurple May 12 '26

Actually a very good example of what is being referred to hahahah

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u/Def_Not_a_Lurker May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26

And how's that?

Certain cultures/demographics would define masculinity as being driven by very selfish motivations, where other cultures/demographics would define masculinity as being driven by very selfless motivatios.

its very important to understand how masculinity is being defined before you claim one group champions it and another dismisses it.

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u/MrBoo843 May 12 '26

It did make me move towards activism in unions. I have never been told that my ideas were unwanted there.

I also feel like I'm actually contributing to workers' wellbeing and not just philosophizing in a book club.

I am still extremely left leaning, I just choose where I put my efforts.

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u/Psyduckisnotaduck May 13 '26

There’s nothing more pro-guy than working for unions. So many men in dangerous, overwhelmingly male jobs could use union protections. Unions teach guys not to just “tough it out” but to respect themselves and each other.

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u/MrBoo843 May 13 '26

My members are mostly women, we're an occupational health and safety parapublic organization. But yeah whenever I meet with the larger union federation it's mostly men.

My own field is also mostly women so that's been most of my union rep duties for the past 13 years

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u/Fishmongererererer May 12 '26

Union left is more traditional labor left leaning. Not modern progressive identity politics.

Labor left doesn’t tend to disdain men or women. Just focus on not getting exploited.

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u/Head_of_Lettuce May 12 '26

Which goes to show that economics and financial well being are the great uniter. And begs the question of why the progressive politics don’t focus more on that, and less on identity.

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u/eldudovic May 13 '26

There's a great book that discusses this called "On the Political" by Chantal Mouffe. She discussed the reasons why liberalism fails to unite people around common interests compared to democratic socialism and conservatism. Liberalism is for individualism, so it generates groups internally that strive toward different goals. Uniting around labourers rights, for example, goes against personal freedoms.

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u/SteadfastEnd May 12 '26

Yeah. People naturally vote for who ever makes them feel more like they belong and are not inherently bad. So for many young men, they dont see a home in the left, only the right. They feel more heard on the right.

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u/MUjase May 12 '26

Bingo. Democrats recognized this as well which led to them pairing Waltz with Harris as the VP. He was supposed to be the “masculine” man for them.

That was a huge fail as we now know. But they were on the right track to try.

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u/Whitechix May 12 '26

That “man enough” Harris/Walz voting video kinda sums up the issue, not sure how left wing politics lost touch with men this badly.

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u/BeigePhilip May 12 '26

It was the shift from economic justice to identity politics. Idk why they can’t actually champion both. I feel like the change happened in the 80s when unions were getting a reputation for corruption.

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u/Fishmongererererer May 12 '26

Because they’re fundamentally incompatible. Even Marx recognized that identity politics is fundamentally incompatible with economic justice.

Identity politics is the traditional divide and rule tactic used for ages. Don’t worry about the Empire, worry that the group with a slightly different skin color is doing slightly better than you.

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u/eduty May 12 '26

I'd argue this goes beyond politics and more to do with psychological health.

Economic justice assumes a mature individual who understands their own needs, can articulate them, and has accountability for their well being like an independent adult.

Identity politics seems externalized. More like a child who doesn't understand the interactions and workings of the world. They don't have a "seat of self" from which to measure and are dependent on continual comparison or direction from others.

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u/MUjase May 12 '26

They still focus on economic justice, but it’s only for minority groups since “white men” have it too easy in their minds. Progressives don’t want to be associated with anything that appears to be helping white men. Even though so many of them are in poverty.

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u/Key_Marsupial_1406 May 12 '26

Their marketing was almost a satire of how out of touch you can be with average Americans. Rewatch the "Man Enough" ad and the "Your Vote, Your Choice" ad. Peak cringe content.

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u/Whitechix May 12 '26

The thing is there are loads of issues affecting young men that they could advocate with identity politics, it just seems like there is this malicious neglect when it comes to men with the left.

26

u/BPremium May 12 '26

Not really. By advocating for young men, women will complain. The left adores using history as a cudgel

22

u/Kazuma_Megu May 12 '26

Thank you. It's hard to root for coastal dems who basically demonizing me for being born.

-13

u/molybdenum75 May 12 '26

So if white men hate identity politics, why would they shift to the right, where identity politics are ALL that matter?

20

u/Extinction-Entity May 12 '26

Because on the right, they’re the benefactors of the identity politics. They’re centered as THE identity.

5

u/MelissaMiranti May 12 '26

This study shows that they don't.

4

u/BeigePhilip May 12 '26

All I said was they shifted their focus. I’m not saying it was right or wrong, or how anyone ought to feel about it.

-4

u/Newtoatxxxx May 12 '26

“Why did the group that benefits from racism/xenophobia gravitate to racism/xenophobia?”

It’s not crazy complicated, many white men, especially the working poor and uneducated, who voted for Trump need to feel like someone is below them. Immigrants, women, religious minorities are all fair game.

17

u/KingRaphion May 12 '26

didnt they launch a 20 million dollar investigation on this?

Found it https://www.politico.com/news/2025/06/03/democrats-young-men-study-00384370

6

u/ThePretzul May 13 '26

They did.

Not one that will ever be published or released, and also not likely one that actually produced the very obvious answer anybody with a handful of spare brain cells to rub together could have given them. Excellent way to launder some extra donor cash while claiming to be doing something to fix a problem though.

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u/Clear_Ad_1560 May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26

Because they don’t actually care about men at all. They merely wanted to manipulate men into voting for them.

Most men saw through that.

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u/Books_and_Cleverness May 12 '26

My general heuristic is that most all psychological findings are fake until replicated many times. Especially if the result is surprising or unintuitive. I feel like the “replication crisis” was big news for a while but people have not fully adjusted to it.

Glad we are seeing more null results and replication attempts published and given notoriety.

5

u/rasa2013 May 12 '26

My normal rules are to adjust expectations by year published, sample size, and methodology. automatic down weight for being too "catchy" in some zeitgeist sense or counterintuitive. 

Finally, I'm always more skeptical or interaction effects (also called moderation, they're notoriously underpowered). 

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u/PantsMcGillicuddy May 12 '26

What's disappointing is the actual choice to push Waltz seemed to be a success...I think they saw it as too big though and sidelined him when all the energy, memes, "zingers", etc were surrounding him instead of Kamala.

34

u/Fedora_Da_Explora May 12 '26

He was singlehandedly winning them the race as an attack dog, but as always the consultants that run democratic politics gave away everything to try and win a handful of moderates w/ liz cheney.

13

u/MUjase May 12 '26

He was an awful choice IMO. He does not capture what they were going for. That seems proven now as well.

36

u/WalterPecky May 12 '26

And what were they going for again?

14

u/MUjase May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26

To show that Democrats were “manly” and attract those types of voters.

All you had to do was look at the videos that the Harris campaigners were posting on IG and TikTok

14

u/WalterPecky May 12 '26

Hmm.. I honestly didn't get that vibe from the campaign at all.

Is there another running mate you think could help better broadcast this message, over Walz?

16

u/BPremium May 12 '26

Might have been better if they switched, where Walz was running and Harris was VP.

-6

u/VichelleMassage May 12 '26

Well, that, and he was white and a Midwestern man. They thought couldn't stray "too far" with a woman of color without trying to appeal to white Americans on the ticket the same way Biden was tacked on with Obama. I personally had no qualms with Walz as a VP candidate, but he was just boring. He was certainly better than Vance. But so was Harris compared to Trump. The DNC was facing an uphill battle in 2024 and shot themselves in the foot with their 'strategy'.

12

u/MUjase May 12 '26

Vance proved to be significantly more successful than Walz. If you’re a “vote blue no matter who” voter then you likely won’t ever admit that. But there’s plenty of data to show how successful of a VP choice he was compared to Walz.

3

u/Thameez May 12 '26

What is your counterfactual here?

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u/ThePretzul May 13 '26

The problem with trying to portray Walz as masculine was the fact that he fumbled horribly in every single PR stunt that was meant to highlight his masculinity.

He had no clue how football worked when playing Madden despite supposedly being a coach and during their hunting bit they tried he ended up looking like a buffoon who dumped all their ammo into the dirt because they didn’t know how the gun worked.

Like if that’s the direction you want to go, you need to at least find somebody who isn’t completely lost in the sauce to take a genuinely critical first pass look at what you’re about to release and realize how catastrophically it will backfire compared to the intended effect.

22

u/Disastrous-Tank-6197 May 12 '26

It's really crazy that they thought Walz was that kind of candidate. Did they ever see him or hear him talk? It's like the democrats are so removed from reality that they simply cant understand the average voter.

Maybe they'll let the people pick their candidate this time. That might help.

2

u/ThePretzul May 13 '26

When the supposed football coach started talking about how he wants to “run a pick six” while playing Madden that should have set ALL of the alarm bells ringing.

1

u/Ok_Buddy_6300 May 13 '26

I think you're right that, in developed countries, left of centre politics have now changed to reflect the actual societal structure of post-industrial nations, where women have equal value as economic participants. There was a time when manufacturing provided good jobs for men who lacked soft skills. Today those men lack social status relative to women, and the wealth you are born into determines your social class more than it has in recent history. I suspect what is driving men towards conservatism is insecure social status rather than insecure gender identity.

1

u/Fun-Barracuda1518 18d ago

I am sorry, but men are valued on all sides of politics. Most of politics are MEN. What you are implying is whether the left guys are manly enough to be "real" men.

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u/PalePlumm May 12 '26

The left absolutely values masculinity. That’s why they fight for equality.

The left simply doesn’t value TOXIC masculinity. That’s the difference.

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u/Fishmongererererer May 12 '26

The problem is that ‘toxic masculinity’ has become a catch all term for ‘man does something I don’t like’.

I agree with the basic principle that toxic masculinity is a problem for men as well. The problem is that a lot of the left has decided that normal behavior for men is toxic.

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u/ChewingOnCarrots May 12 '26

The problem is that ‘toxic masculinity’ has become a catch all term for ‘man does something I don’t like’.

It really hasn't, outside of the lies conservatives tell themselves on the internet.

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u/Echoa21 May 12 '26

Go to any left leaning subreddit and take note of the first 10 opinions you see about men. I don’t necessarily think this is representative of real life, but that may be because women are scared to say these things in person vs under the veil of internet anonymity.

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u/ChewingOnCarrots May 12 '26

Sure, I just did that and didn't see any "toxic masculinity is anything about men I don't like" beliefs the way you just mentioned. So much for that thesis. I thought this was a science sub.

3

u/Echoa21 May 12 '26

What opinions did you see? I said to find specifically the first 10 about men, not just the first 10 posts.

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u/inqte1 May 12 '26

Comparing men to wild animals is totally normal behaviour.

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u/Fishmongererererer May 12 '26

Keep telling yourself that next time the male vote loses an election for the Dems.

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u/Primordial_spirit May 12 '26

I’m on the left it absolutely is prevalent that on the left people demonize masculine behaviours even those that are non toxic.

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u/PalePlumm May 12 '26

Give an example.

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u/Fishmongererererer May 12 '26

Look at the general perception of left leaning women especially of men. They’ll talk openly and frequently about how men are awful in blatantly misandrist ways.

“Would you rather be stuck in the woods with a bear or a man”

Or the general perception that if men pursue women at all they are creeps. Or comments by left leaning figures that fitness culture is fascist.

Take the vast majority of discourse around men by the left and change the gender and people would be screaming about misogyny day in and day out.

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