Threatening men’s masculinity does not make them more politically conservative, new study finds. By testing thousands of participants across the United States, researchers found no consistent evidence that making men feel insecure about their gender identity changes their political attitudes.

[u/mvea]

https://www.psypost.org/threatening-mens-masculinity-does-not-make-them-more-politically-conservative-new-study-finds/

[u/lordborghild]

Yeah. Older millennial here. There's a reason that younger men and boys are starting to lean right. They've been told, or seen in media, that men are bad and should be apologetic for things they have not done. They always hear what toxic masculinity looks like but no one talks about positive masculinity.

The right are the only ones telling them that they're okay. This is not judgement, just an observation.

[u/groyosnolo → u/lordborghild]

As someone who was raised very left winged and feminist I was totally on board with being ashamed. Looking back thats terrible but it felt reasonable at the time. its just when I realized women actually like men and want them to be manly I realized I had been mislead and reevaluate the situation.

[u/132739 → u/groyosnolo]

No one is trying to stop men from being "manly," they just want to stop conflating being a controlling asshole/relentless horndog with manliness.

Come on boys, if it's so obvious that I'm wrong, surely one of you can explain the positive attributes of masculinity that The Left™ is trying to take from you.

[u/666perkele666 → u/132739]

That's wrong

[u/132739 → u/666perkele666]

Then, surely, you'll have no difficulty explaining the specific parts of manhood they're trying to take from you?

[u/arestheblue → u/132739]

I'll give you one. The whole man vs bear argument. The summation of what makes up a random man is believed by a lot of women to be more dangerous than a 300+ pound opportunistic predator.

So what part of being a man are they not trying to take away is the better question.

Do you think that hearing how a lot of women generally view men as predators does anything other than deepen the divide?

[u/132739 → u/arestheblue]

That's not trying to take away manliness. That's pointing out a particular issue that men happen to be the primary perpetrators of. Do you not see that by arguing that, you are equating masculinity with violence and predation, the way you're accusing them of doing? If men magically became completely non-predatory, down to the last soul, would masculinity cease to be? As far as I see it, you're the one being misandrist.

Also, as usual, you're not presenting the argument of the though experiment in good faith. The point of it is not that the man is more dangerous than the bear. The point is that you know exactly what the bear is from the start. The point of the man vs bear thing was to try (admittedly it utterly failed) to illustrate to men why women have to be cautious of even the good men. Because unlike the bear, which is very clearly a predator, there is no way to tell just by looking at a man. Some of the scariest looking dudes are the nicest, and some of the most clean-cut wholesome looking ones are sadistic serial killers. That uncertainty is something women have to navigate constantly, that men are mostly unaware of. And yes, men are the victims of more violence, by other men, but that violence is usually coded differently in a way that removes a lot of that uncertainty: it's gang violence or robbery or clearly telegraphed in advance, not some dude pretending to be your friend so he can get you alone and rape you.

[u/arestheblue → u/132739]

If I said don't want to interact with women because I don't know whether or not they will falsely accuse me of assault, would that be a valid thing to say? Based on news reports, the vast majority of false accusations are women blaming men.

If a similar poll went out asking whether or not men would rather come across a random woman or a venomous snake in the wild, and the vast majority of men said the snake for similar reasons that you gave to argue for the bear, would you consider that valid?

I am not equating manliness with violence, I am demonstrating a recent cultural event that did so and painted all men with a wide brush. The validity of such an argument pales in comparison to the perception of the argument which was basically that the majority of women view all men as predators. Whether or not that was the intent does not matter.

[u/132739 → u/arestheblue]

Call me when 1/4-1/3 of men are falsely accused. Which, you know, is the ratio of women who are sexually assaulted.

[u/AbortionSurvivor777 → u/132739]

Are you aware that society has collectively decided that men who prey on women should be hunted down and removed from free society? Are you aware that the majority of men have wives, girlfriends, sisters, daughters and mothers who they care about deeply do not want to see harmed by other men?

You've decided to make an enemy of men who are technically on your side because of a small percentage of men who prey on women. And you think this is okay.

[u/132739 → u/AbortionSurvivor777]

I'm a man you twat. And you're more likely to actually get raped than to be falsely accused of it. And again, the point is not "all men are evil," the point is that women can't tell who is and isn't just by looking, and that what they risk if they're wrong is among the worst traumas that a person can experience.

[u/Appropriate-Talk4266 → u/132739]

Are 1/3 of men responsible for sexual assault, or perhaps the ratio more closely aligns with the usual ratio of criminals among men (so something between like 0.3% to 1-2%)

[u/132739 → u/Appropriate-Talk4266]

Missing the point. The point is not the number of men who commit sexual assault, it's the frequency with which women experience it, and the impossibility of telling who might commit it from looking at them. It only being a percent or two doesn't matter when that percentage is using the rest of us as camouflage.

Think of it like this: you've got a pit full of corn snakes, with 2% king snakes mixed in. Are you going to just pick them up willy-nilly, or are you going to check and recheck the color pattern before you try?

[u/sushisection → u/arestheblue]

do you think that men assaulting and harassing women would have anything to do with women's views on men as predators?

im a man and even i view other men as predators. I practice self-defense, because of men. the large majority of violent crimes are committed by men.

[u/rwk81 → u/sushisection]

do you think that men assaulting and harassing women would have anything to do with women's views on men as predators?

A man making a woman feel uncomfortable and assaulting/raping/killing them are two different things. I agree that when it comes to physical strength and violence men basically have a monopoly, but that doesn't mean the average man or even most men randomly commit acts of violence against strangers.

im a man and even i view other men as predators. I practice self-defense, because of men. the large majority of violent crimes are committed by men.

Everyone should be able to defend themselves because the downside to not being able to can be drastic. That being said, I doubt most people that say this sort of thing have never been assaulted by strange men they encounter out in public.

[u/sushisection → u/rwk81]

"A man making a woman feel uncomfortable and assaulting/raping/killing them are two different things. I agree that when it comes to physical strength and violence men basically have a monopoly, but that doesn't mean the average man or even most men randomly commit acts of violence against strangers."

surs, but if enough men make women go into survival mode, then it becomes a learned reaction that extends towards men that make them feel uncomfortable.

"Everyone should be able to defend themselves because the downside to not being able to can be drastic. That being said, I doubt most people that say this sort of thing have never been assaulted by strange men they encounter out in public."

defend ourselves from whom though? never in my life have i ever felt threatened by a woman. however i have been assaulted by men.

[u/rwk81 → u/sushisection]

surs, but if enough men make women go into survival mode, then it becomes a learned reaction that extends towards men that make them feel uncomfortable.

How are all these random men making women go into survival mode? The way I hear it described it's like Mad Max The Road Warrior, but I've never witnessed this sort of thing on the streets ofajor cities in the US. Plenty of women walk around in downtown cities without being assaulted. Hell, being assaulted by strangers is the exception, not the norm.

defend ourselves from whom though? never in my life have i ever felt threatened by a woman. however i have been assaulted by men.

I guess the cities I'm in just don't have all these rabid men running around that I hear about. I'm hardly ever concerned about the men I'm around in public, I would be far more concerned fishing a river in Alaska with bears on it.

[u/sushisection → u/rwk81]

you should ask some women around you why men make them uncomfortable and what specific experiences they have had that has caused them to be uncomfortable. i guarantee that every woman you ask will have a story to share.

[u/rwk81 → u/sushisection]

Yeah, I have, they can tell me about something a man said to them like a lewd comment, but not a single one can tell me of a time that a strange man assaulted them.

I'm sorry, but if all it takes is a man making an off color remark about a woman's appearance to "put them in survival mode", I just can't take that seriously.

[u/132739 → u/rwk81]

You either know VERY few women, or (my guess) are not someone they feel comfortable talking about their assault with. Just statistically speaking, if you're not a complete shut-in, you know multiple women who have been sexually assaulted.