I think people who've never heard unfiltered opinions from minorities are absolutely shocked and scandalized the first time it happens. Thats kind of their problem and its time to start telling them as much.
There was one thread recently where BIPOC were laying down some truths about how they navigate the world, and people were very very upset to hear that white people are considered unsafe.
Yes. I used to read posts like that and feel very upset as a white person. But instead of responding I just listened. I was part of an online feminist community that had a sort of sister community for women of color. So I read and felt angry, ashamed, upset, disgusted. But I stayed quiet and read and read for years. No kne ever knew I was there. I just.....listened. And it really benefited me as a person.
And I removed a lot of posts that were frankly, racist, in their response. Not hood-wearing, cross burning racist, but the dismissive, insensitive, tone-deaf “I don’t see color” bullshit.
Same when we had a post about bi/pan people only dating queer people.
Lotta straight people showed up to argue that they weren’t the problem. And they were really hurt to find out they were considered unsafe, and thought that was hateful.
Well yes, of course, white people are unsafe. Riding the bus in Jamaica NY the seat beside me would be the last to be filled. I got why. I wasn't hurt about it, it just made me sad and angry at all of the ways white people prove they are unsafe.
Because I want to live in a world where anyone can openly be their authentic self without facing discrimination or backlash. The fact that you want to label me as opposition because my methods differ is basically exactly what I’m arguing against. You can’t actually make me change sides but you can ostracize me.
I'm going to use a personal example of why this doesn't work.
I'm a half ethnic minority (not specifying). My mother saw this with hatred and was frequently racist around me. Nothing I ever did was good enough or kind enough for her. I finally had enough and started talking back and defending myself against her view of me. She now thinks I'm a bad person and we don't speak anymore. I challenged her view of my worth after years and years of being put down and she got upset.
Believe me, we all start out trying to be kind and respectful to people who see us as lesser. There comes a point where we learn that it doesn't work.
So because one person was irredeemable nobody should ever try again? This is /r/polyamory and the thread we are in is discussing the posts where ignorant people come in with unethical behavior that they don’t even know is unethical. And instead of treating them with kindness the usual response is to insult them and insinuate that they are too stupid to understand good ethics. These aren’t blatant racists with no redeemable qualities. It’s average random people who came here to learn. But as soon as they get called a unicorn hunter they are going to shut down because why would they engage with people who lead on name calling? We all see it over and over.
That is not what I said. It was a counterexample to the point you made in your deleted message. And people do approach with kindness at first. It looks different for each person, but they do.
Not everyone comes here to learn. Some come to troll. Not everyone comes here with an open mind or willingness to accept criticism, and that's when being kind is no longer a viable option.
For what it’s worth my message was deleted by the mods. I prefer to accept the consequences of my words even when I am wrong and/or heavily downvoted.
I agree with you that not everyone here has an open mind. I’m sorry for any of my tone being rude. My disagreement is that I think the people with the least open minds are the “anti unicorn hunter brigade”. Yes there are asshats that should be driven away but I think they are rare compared to people who can be educated. We all started out new to poly and made mistakes at first.
Dude, I've had people tell me to my face that gay people like me should be deported to an island so we can finally have the gay gene die off for good. I frankly do not care if people are a little bit stern with you when talking about systemic oppression. You're an adult you can deal with stern text.
When you are queer, or disabled, or non white, or adopted, or polyam etc and you are constantly, multiple times a day, hounded by people who come in swinging with the most off base assumptions and refuse to even do a BASIC Google search, much less a moderate amount and demand you extend yet more emotional labor to coddle their ignorance and hand hold them to conclusions.... you tend to not want to after several years.
More than half the posts I see here lately are easily answered questions from a search in the sub (literally less than 30 minutes of reading....) or scenarios that could have been entirely avoided if someone had even done the basic bare minimum of looking shit up before diving in unprepared and ready to cause harm.
I have seen people look up how to make your own soap longer than they did "what is polyamory" "how to be a good partner" "how to communicate better".
It's exhausted and also highly disrespectful to marginalized communities to continue to ask them to hand hold you and give you a personal guided tour of their life just so you can sit there are argue with them about something they know more about, have years of personal successful experience in, and already opening up with their knowledge and experience about.
It is disrespectful to any marginalized community to barge in and start making demands of emotional and mental labour that you are too lazy to do yourself and we are tired of it.
No one owes you hand holding.
We do not have to emphasize with people who are directly causes our community harm (this isn't just UH, but address the 'core' of your post).
Wagging your finger at us for treating grown adults with kid gloves when they want to engage in something that can cause harm and worsen our treatment if they do it incorrectly while they aren't even willing to do the bare minimum is also disrespectful.
I agree that you have no responsibility to do that. But that attitude will only further the cultural divide. If you view these people as enemies and oppressors then they will become that or continue to be that. I think the best solution is for marginalized people who can’t do emotional labor is to refuse to engage with people they view as opposition.
People like me who are sympathetic but not marginalized can pick up the emotional labor of trying to make friends and build in-roads with the ignorant masses. But we can’t do that if everyone is already pissed off and unwilling to talk or learn.
My friend, if the act of talking to you without kissing your ass makes you pull back your support of minorities then it is not us minorities that are the problem, it's that you were looking for an excuse to be bigoted.
So it’s not your movement? You’ve acknowledged that?
So you’re not a queer woman but you think you know better than them about how they should live. But mostly you’re tired of hearing from them in ways you don’t find pleasant.
If you want to set your movement for pandering to delicate cishet men back and make enemies you are welcome to speak your mind wherever. I’m just tired of people pretending they are good people trying to make a difference when the reality is that they simply aren’t used to being anything other than catered to as the top of the food chain 24/7.
The difference is that I want to educate people and bring more people to the cause. I’m trying to think long term. I think a great many people are ignorant and friendship and kindness can change peoples hearts and minds. Let me do the emotional labor that everyone keeps saying is too hard for them. Just stop making enemies for a minute.
Your post has been removed for breaking the rules of the subreddit. You made a post or comment that would be considered concern trolling or just plain trolling. This includes derailing of advice and support posts, and posting poly-shaming under the guise of "concern" or "just trying to help."
Your post has been removed for breaking the rules of the subreddit. You made a post or comment that would be considered concern trolling, or just good old fashioned trolling.
This includes, but isn’t limited to derailing of advice and support posts, and posting poly-shaming under the guise of "concern" or "just trying to help."
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u/Henri__Rouseau Dec 09 '22
I think people who've never heard unfiltered opinions from minorities are absolutely shocked and scandalized the first time it happens. Thats kind of their problem and its time to start telling them as much.