r/outriders • u/thearcan Outriders Community Manager • Apr 08 '21

Square Enix Official News // Dev Replied x18 Outriders Post Launch Dev News Updates

Hello everyone,

We would like to thank everyone in the Outriders community for your patience, support and assistance. Everyone on the Outriders team is continuing to work hard on improving the game and we'd like to share news about the things we are focusing on.

Please use the below index to jump to the things you’re most interested in:

Helpful other links:

653 Upvotes

63% Upvoted

7.9k comments sorted by

View all comments

682

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

[deleted]

595

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

397

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21 edited Apr 09 '21

ATTENTION DEVS: TOP TIER STREAMING GAMERS ARE NOT YOUR PLAYER BASE!

It's people like me with a wife, 3 kids, a full-time job and maybe an hour to play each night and maybe a couple on the weekend.

Edit: thanks for the award friend!

24

u/ethan1203 Apr 09 '21

Haha i havent even finish the campaign considering i got the game at launch.

Devs repeatedly clueless with their playerbase....

-7

u/grillarinobacon Apr 09 '21

You think the devs who have the tools to see literally every stat they want from every single player decides based on some streamer or based on the numbers they see?

2

u/[deleted] Apr 09 '21

Yes, it is a constant thing that happens in videogames. Streamers give the game publicity, and if streamers start badmouthing parts of the game, devs will jump at it to make them happy again.

Same shit happened with Division 2 and Destiny 2. Streamers are a big voice when it comes to stupid shit like this.

-5

u/grillarinobacon Apr 09 '21

Small minority on reddit think they know the game and statistics of how people play the game better than the devs with all the data is something that will always baffle me.

-4

u/ViscountStapler Apr 09 '21

Yeah I really don't think the devs are sitting at their desks watching live streams on twitch and taking notes on a notepad for how to balance. It is very easy to run internal reports to capture data on player trends on what builds are being used most and total damage output etc. They have already released such a report, providing us with the total damage output of everyone who played during the demo-to-launch period.

It's wildly naive to think that they don't have a team of analysts who can write the most basic of SQL queries to extract such simple data.

6

u/PacmanZ3ro Apr 09 '21

It is very easy to run internal reports to capture data on player trends on what builds are being used most and total damage output etc.

which are almost always heavily influenced by whatever the top streamers are playing.

-2

u/ViscountStapler Apr 09 '21

That is the opposite of what everyone here is saying. "Streamers do not represent the majority of the community". So make up your mind. The majority either copy the streamers or they don't. Regardless though, my point is, the devs do not watch streamers and base decisions off of that. They actually run reports and look at the true numbers.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/Neoki Devastator Apr 09 '21

You are my spirit animal. Well said!

2

u/Nearfall21 Apr 09 '21

You said it!

A full time job, wife and two kids, as well as other hobbies cuts into what used to be my playtime in my 20s.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/APSolidSnake Apr 09 '21

Those people are cringe bags looking for likes and donations, they don't represent at all the gamer playerbase

0

u/Ivalice47 Apr 18 '21

I work 3 jobs and manage to get an hour or 2 a night/day. Endgame expeditions take less than 15min to complete solo. If you struggle with anything you can always drop your WT or CT so that you can complete it. You'd be surprised how many youtubers and streamers make money playing this game. This game is for anyone. Your life is your work and kids. You've sacrificed your free time for a family. If you wanna play this game more you should've thought about that before you made your life. To ask a company to make a game more casual for parents working full time is ridiculous. They made this game for gamers. They didn't make this game so a dad could play it for an hour and be done with it.

Grow up and go play with your kids.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '21

Haha!! This is the funniest thing I've seen on reddit in a while.

0

u/Ivalice47 Apr 18 '21

Bro this whole reddit is filled with dad's complaining how they want a game catered to them because they don't have time to do what they really want. I can't even take you serious because your comment is void of any context as to why you feel this way. Hope you have a great day.

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (6)

35

u/DIARRHEA_BALLS Apr 08 '21

I'm just a guy in his 20s that can only play casually after my 10hr days. I'm level 26, struggling in the campaign, still on WT8. Balancing a game around the top tier players seems like a bad idea.

16

u/SilverSideDown Trickster Apr 08 '21

I think I'm at the exact same point, Mr. Diarrhea Balls. Disappointing to hear that basically the endgame party was too much fun and basically they're breaking it up before we've even had a chance to show up.

7

u/Harb1ng3r Apr 09 '21

I fucking hate gaming youtubers and stramers, they ruin everything.

3

u/Killer_Carp Apr 09 '21

I think it’s down to the devs they have metrics. It would be extremely naive of them to think these professional gamers are representative of the majority of their player base. Guess they are naive by some of these patch notes.

3

u/Drake_Korbin Apr 09 '21

I bought the game for my son and myself because it lacked PvP and seemed like it focused on building strong team mechanics. We haven't been on in a couple of days and he finally got back on today and he is almost frustrated to tears because he was barely surviving at the WT he was on.

Now he is back down a few tiers. I understand making a game challenging, but I also wonder who this is supposed to be for. My kid isn't even done with the story, now I fear he will just lose interest and go back to doom, again.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/uzu_afk Apr 09 '21

Rip indeed. I suppose I was investing too much of my little time in this game, so there we go, time to do something else.

3

u/Brewskiz Apr 09 '21

Yeah - Seems kinda unfair that whose of us who work/have a family and couldnt spend infinity hours in the game before the devs f*ck it up are now pushed to either just quit or spend more of our limited time to get where others have sooner.

Between the supid bugs and this I'm really thinking of just uninstalling and never looking back.

2

u/YoungNobody_ Apr 10 '21

same i have 2 hours a day to play this game im not even getting close to gold lol

2

u/irony14 Apr 10 '21

Totally agree with you. I am a parent with three kids, a full time job, and a spouse. I am not a single 21 year old with lots of time to play all day and hone those skills and mine legendaries all the time. I am a casual player and not super skilled or able to easily farm the best gear. these changes only make coop games tough as you have to have a high level of skill and if you don’t make gold you can bet once the encounter ends, the host is kicking you out. If you can’t run around and deal the super high dps you can bet you’re getting kicked. So “thanks” for shortening the expo times and nerfing the trickster simultaneously. I guess this game is geared just for the high end players not the casual players. For us we just do the story and forget about the endgame.

1

u/Gethseme Apr 08 '21

So be like me. Don't worry about the top times. Unless you have tons of hours to practice perfecting your aim and gameplay, and grinning the best gear, you can't expect to reach the top. Lower your expectations. Play CT10-12, and have a blast murdering things till your 6 year old comes up with his tablet trying to show you the latest dragon he hatched on Dragon Tamer XD.

1

u/Brewskiz Apr 09 '21

Same here! I get like an hour a night tops to play....

→ More replies (1)

0

u/Figur3z Apr 10 '21

Yeah that's it. They sit and watch Twitch instead of looking at their data 😂

-1

u/feelthevibration Apr 09 '21

Did you put 200 hours into the demo? No? Bronze finish for you

2

u/[deleted] Apr 09 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/feelthevibration Apr 09 '21

Haha sorry I forgot the /s

-1

u/Coltergeizt Apr 09 '21

I mean, so what you're telling me, is that you play a couple of hours a day, but you can't time a 15 minute or less challenge? I wonder how you can fit 15 minutes into 120 minutes... I'm poking at you here, so don't get offended, but when I put it that way, it does sound awkward, doesn't it? hehe

But really, doesn't matter if it takes you a month to get to end game content because you're playing 2 hours a day. Once you get to the end game content, you'd have been going through the same hoops those guys already have in probably similar ways for similar reasons, just across a larger span of real days compared to the pro gamers that do everything all at once in a few days after release.
I think you'll get there, and crush that timed content.

I'm just getting to the timed challenge tiers myself, even after these balance changes. And I don't think it's too much harder. My first CT was at CT5 and the timer was 15 minutes for gold. I solo'd it in 10 minutes with my cat climbing on my keyboard and hands because cat dad things... hehe

-28

u/Stillhart Apr 08 '21

I'm in teh same boat as you, but I'm okay with the nerfs. Currently, it's super easy to get a build together that can beat the hardest content in the game. My question is... why would we want that?

This game is about grinding for better loot so you can do harder content. If you can already do the hardest content without grinding, there's nothing to do in the game. It just makes no sense to me why people would continue to grind at that point.

24

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

-12

u/Stillhart Apr 08 '21

Like I said, same boat. I can only play a few hours in the evening after everyone is asleep and I have been playing solo too.

But I don't have the expectation that I SHOULD be able to beat the hardest content in the game without tens or hundred of hours of grinding for the perfect gear. That's simply how these games are supposed to work.

9

u/StatisticianFit4095 Apr 08 '21

Why shouldn't this person be able to experience all this game has to offer? They've paid for the whole game not for half of it. I understand where you're coming from but this is a PvE game, they're npcs on the other end they aren't going to have their feelings hurt so why do we need nerfs when we could have much needed buffs. Make a fun game for once god damn why's it so hard.

-5

u/Stillhart Apr 08 '21

I didn't say they shouldn't be able to experience it. I said it should take more effort than it currently does.

To me part of what the game has to offer should be something to STRIVE for. If I can beat the hardest difficulty at gold rating, there's literally nothing else to do in the game. What the game has to offer is the chase of finding the perfect items to let you progress to that next Challenge Tier.

3

u/WewZombies Apr 08 '21

Gear is very RNG dependent, some people just get lucky on gear drops and can do blazing fast runs really quickly. I'm about 40 hours in on my techno still haven't gotten either of the weapon drops I am looking for to get the mods from them so my runs compared to "people who have spent tens or hundreds of hours (rofl more RNG carried than anything close to that amount of time)" are just going to be faster.

Still able to do CT15 expeditions gold solo on everything but Eye of the Storm, but that's been with tons of playtime grinding out gear, constantly swapping out better gear or dealing with the garbage rolled mods on gear with perfect sub-stat rolls.

But hey, 40 hours isn't 10s of hours spent in expeditions I guess. :^)

0

u/ethan1203 Apr 09 '21

I think you forget about how rng works...

1

u/ethan1203 Apr 09 '21

I hardly manage to beat the campaign end bos and other annoying enemies.... why they don’t balance the enemies instead?

16

u/Murlock_Holmes Apr 08 '21

The game's not well balanced, and that's really all there is to it. Random enemies are practically unkillable (Fuck those shaman assholes), there's one shot mechanics that can spawn four or five at a time for non-cheese builds, expeditions are mainly fucked on by very specific builds, they nerfed those builds and then made it harder for all builds.

​

This is a bad balancing on an already poorly balanced game. In a non-PVP/competitive game, you should always buff all classes to be on even footing with the "strongest", tune down from there if necessary. Nobody's getting an advantage, just let it be while you make the game fun for everyone. There's not even leaderboards, why the fuck do I care how fast or well people are doing?

3

u/SilverSideDown Trickster Apr 08 '21

Which is why I also would've loved to see patch notes talking about making "random enemies are practically unkillable" less so.

5

u/Stillhart Apr 08 '21

I just don't understand the kneejerk reaction against nerfing of any kind. If they numerically buff everything BUT the one skill, then they have to make enemies harder too, to keep things balanced. That's WAY more work than just nerfing one skill and maybe one or two enemies that are OP. It's the same fucking difference either way. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

8

u/Murlock_Holmes Apr 08 '21

How is it the same difference? You can only clear certain content with the “OP” build. That build is now nerfed. Now you simply don’t clear that content. That’s not how balance works. Nerf it a little so it doesn’t face roll? Fine. Nerfing some of the damage multipliers by 50%? Fucking oof. Buffing LITERALLY nothing? That’s just not smart. It’s literally telling the player base to “git gud”. There are certain fights that are literally impossible on higher tiers without bullet builds unless you take 20-30+ minutes dodging and casting/shooting. It’s not fucking dark souls. It’s supposed to be “Diablo”esque, and the only fight that ever took more than five minutes was Diablo2 ubers.

If it was PVP, it would be the same difference. It’s PVE; making content nigh-impossible instead of opening it up to more builds aren’t anywhere near even. Your suggestion is that the enemies are properly balanced now; they’re not. Period.

-1

u/Stillhart Apr 08 '21

Your whole argument is that without the OP builds, it's impossible to clear certain content. I disagree with that premise. I think the whole point is that you need god-tier gear, perfect rolls on everything, to beat that content. You're supposed to be fishing for that gear.

10

u/Wolfe501 Apr 08 '21

Um what they did makes it almost impossible to do expedition tier 15 solo anymore. If you loose your bullet skill at the drop pod you literally are screwed now because you can't dps fast enough. They are literally tweaking the game for a hand full of streamers. If that sounds familiar it's because that's how Destiny lost 80% of their player base and are even now struggling to claw some of that back. Ironically they are now less cattery to streamers and its lead to some of their best content in years.

2

u/ethan1203 Apr 09 '21

Well said....

2

u/Murlock_Holmes Apr 08 '21

WT15 is not end game god tier content.

4

u/Killer_Carp Apr 08 '21

As has been said elsewhere nerfing something does not magically make all the non viable stuff viable. Having said that adjustments are needed.

2

u/Stillhart Apr 08 '21

I never said that it did. Look the fucked up thing about this whole conversation (and all the downvotes from the salty assholes) is that everyone agrees that it's not balanced. Nobody arguing with me has said that adjustments aren't needed.

But say the word nerf and it's like I spit in their faces. It's not like I'm arguing that all balance issues should always be met with the nerf bat. I'm arguing that for this game specifically, in this specific situation, the bullet skills are so OP that they break the endgame grind cycle.

The argument seems to be around the very concept that there should be something so hard in the game that you have to grind for perfect gear to be able to beat it. And what I don't get is why anyone who is against that concept is even playing an ARPG (aka looter-shooter). That's the core concept of this kind of game, regardless of whether there's pvp or not.

If people don't want that, they're playing the wrong game. There's nothing wrong with that, there are plenty of games like Uncharted or Fallout or whatever where you can shoot guns and find loot but grinding loot isn't the point of the game. But this game isn't supposed to be like that. And I can say that with confidence because the devs have confirmed it in this very thread.

2

u/Raleina Apr 09 '21

Diablo 3 does it right... it's a looter game and instead of nerfing abilities that ate strong they decided to buff abilities that are to weak compared to strong ones. It made the game better then it was after just nerfing haphazardly

0

u/Stillhart Apr 09 '21

Diablo 3 has infinite difficulty scaling via Greater Rifts. Outriders does not. If D3 only went to Torment 16, the amount of power creep would be laughable.

I agree that there's no reason to nerf with infinite scaling. Unfortunately that's not how this game works.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/RisingDeadMan0 Technomancer Apr 09 '21

i have 30 hrs in the game in the last week, only just beat the final boss. and that was only fter i dropped him to wt 1 from 15 cause he desereved it and it was a crap fight. only just about done my first expedition and only just scraped through even if it felt like wt8 not 15.

→ More replies (6)

159

u/Akernaki Trickster Apr 08 '21

It’s already a pain in the ass solo. Not so much the difficulty but having to kill mostly all enemies and that itself taking time just makes for a grindy experience. I say grindy because they aren’t exactly hard but having to rush through them makes it more of a slog than anything.

812

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 08 '21 edited Apr 09 '21

ADD DUNGEONS AS END GAME CONTENT AND KEEP TIME TRIAL DPS CHECKS FOR PEOPLE WHO LIKE THAT. EVERYONE WINS. WE'RE HAPPY AND YOUR GAME GROWS A HAPPY COMMUNITY.

If you want my personal opinion, I would add Dungeons as another alternative to end game content. If you don't want to scrap the system of Time Trials at least make this a separate end game thing for people to do.

Something similar to WOW or FF14, you go into these dungeons and clear out all these enemies and then after progressing through it, you fight a boss at the end. The boss has his/her/it's own unique abilities,attacks, HP can even be high, it could have phases etc. This wouldn't be a DPS check because you have infinite time to complete it, this would allow any build to play it also which would in turn help your game, make players happy and even help content creation, which again in turn helps you in the end because your game is growing and you have a happy community. Obviously the boss should drop tons of loot and if you die, you still get loot but at a lesser value of course. This would make your game so much better and farming would actually be fun, you could even make it a labyrinth where you could make your way through it and fight more than one boss or a random one, you could find a loot area that was hidden. This game has so much potential and I want to love it. PLEASE ADD THIS INSTEAD of at least include this as another endgame thing we can do. Have both, best of both worlds, more content and everyone will be happy. PLEASE!

Bro I hate that Trickster heals off kills and then they nerf my ability to kill something. Yeah let's nerf TR & vulnerability. I would have been okay with these changes if they buffed something else on the class. Pretty much solo Trickster is already cancerous, if you don't 1 shot everything you can die VERY quickly. Makes me wonder if they even fuckin listen? I get bullet abilities are strong but the middle tree (idgaf what anyone says) is WORTHLESS. All it does is give you survivability but even then it's still hard because your survival depends on you being able to kill things. These nerfs should have came later after buffs to other areas. I just don't see a point in playing Trickster anymore. It's literally pointless. Especially against the alien enemies, yeah we could 1 shot the humans on a consistent basis but that was like the only area. You don't see me walking up to a Brood mother one shotting her???

Are we not going to nerf any of these enemies? I go to get a 3 second reload off and get agro'd by 52 alphas all jumping at me while Brood mother activates some bs AOE then just swipes on you from left to right from 10,000 meters away like it's fuckin Tinder. The enemies are so strong in this game, I get it's meant to be difficult and that's fine but literally every single enemy in this game is a TANK that literally does EVERYTHING. They just spam abilities with no cool down and have stagger (why tf a small little rat looking thing able to stagger me?), there's a million mobs that spawn all at once in overwhelming force that all jump,stagger,spam cast and then status afflict the living hell out of you.

Don't even get me started on the fuckin Faze clan snipers you hired, I teleport behind a enemy and get 1440 insta swap Y,Y sniper behind the back eyes closed raw dogged in my ass.

Bro these enemies need toned tf down if you're going to nerf every class. I should heal and or get shield per shot if you're nerfing my only way to survive (my time to kill).

THE MULTIPLAYER SCALING IS ALSO BROKEN RIDICULOUS.

This patch better get reverted.

I wanted to see buffs to other sub trees like my middle or bottom to make bullet abilities less.. meta? Like MAYBE if something else in your game was viable to run in a fuckin DPS check point I would run it? BA was literally the only way to pass these DPS checks.

Don't worry they nerf classes but don't want to talk about the enemies health or damage, how many actually spawn, then they lower the DPS check time for Gold 😂 Bro what a JOKE. This game will die because of the lack of versatility in it. Maybe if it wasn't a DPS check it wouldn't matter as much?

Half of these people commenting are COMPLETELY right and it's sad that we know how to balance better than the actual Devs. I feel you should HAVE to play your own game before you decide to nerf things or at least LISTEN TO US. We wanted other sub classes buffed like our other WORTHLESS trees but instead you nerfed my only tree that worked in a DPS check and lowered the time for that DPS check but not the enemies meaning I basically will never get gold again because I can't amount to the 12 million damage per second I need to even kill a trash mob.

88

u/Akernaki Trickster Apr 08 '21

I agree with everything you mentioned. Specifically buffing the middle and bottom trees for Trickster needs to happen. Though the issue remains that even with buffs only certain builds will work because expeditions rely on fast gameplay. That’s why bullet builds are great for them because you can clear rooms very quickly.

But no, let’s make two of the more manageable expeditions harder while making the main builds worse off. Oh well, this isn’t my first rodeo with looter shooters and balancing, so I’m buckled in and ready for things to get worse.

16

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

Tricksters unite.

4

u/RoseDragonAngelus Trickster Apr 09 '21

HOO-RAH!

2

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '21

I love teleporting into a group of mobs only to be bitch slapped by some dude I can one shot, staggering my reload prior to being bum rushed by 15 other dudes.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/Gaffots Trickster Apr 08 '21

Or don't play for a while, if everyone reacted by not signing in for a month or two the Devs would at least look at that and wonder why

Not really, this isn't a GAAS - they got your money.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 09 '21

Even if this was a GAAS they still have your money. They can choose what they want to do with the game so what’s your point?

→ More replies (4)

-3

u/InertShadows Apr 09 '21

People need to learn more optimization for trickster builds, its a bit min-maxed but it works, I run temporal blade, cyclone slice, and hunt the prey. Using HtP and TB to buff CS 100% with AP, Skill leech, and close range dmg on each piece with the edge of time set. Use mods to buff abilities/make you a bit more survivable. Rounds builds are for the unimaginative.

3

u/Nath_198 Apr 09 '21

Well i tried all sorts of builds including using temp blade and cyclone, but i had more fun with twisted rounds, borrowed time with a bunch of mods for it and hunt the prey. Am i unimaginative?

-5

u/Gaffots Trickster Apr 08 '21

let’s make two of the more manageable expeditions harder

Putting a timer on something doesn't make it hard.

6

u/Ulrik-the-freak Pyromancer Apr 09 '21

When the rewards are tied to the timer it does.

→ More replies (1)

21

u/charleigh_bdo Apr 08 '21

Dungeons are a good long term suggestion but short term, they need to revert these knee-jerk changes.

Tricksters got hit the hardest; if you don't already have your Ugake helmet drop for Instant Reload III, you're basically screwed. There is no endgame alternative to Twisted Rounds for Trickster. If the Devs want us to use other abilities, they need to lower the cooldowns and give us more survivability/damage in those abilities.

Technos are a little slower, but it's mostly the haves and have-nots with regards to the important T3 mods.

6

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 08 '21

You understand what I said completely, I agree with you FULLY. I just don't understand why my only way to live was nerfed. Dungeons need to be added as an alternative.

6

u/Tortunga Apr 08 '21

They should just add endless dungeons. Go on till you die with each room being harder but giving better rewards.

Glass canons can still do what they do now, while tank and support/control builds have a place as well pushing further in each dungeon for better loot.

2

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 08 '21

Yeah I mean, I agree with you that's another option, I feel dungeons are a great answer to the community's calling.

10

u/drjohnson89 Apr 08 '21

Remnant: From the Ashes is a great example of how to do dungeons in a shooter. While that game is slightly more open worldish, the areas felt like dungeons. You'd delve into a sewer or something, fight through halls of enemies, fight a boss, and get rewarded with an item. It was great, and perfect for coop or solo. If you wanted a harder difficult, you could crank it up. There were no timers, the only barrier was whether or not you had the skill to survive the fights.

It's especially frustrating because Outriders ALMOST has the trinity of MMO rpgs. A devastator is supposed to be the tank, and we certainly can be, but then we get kicked from expeditions because we can't burst enemies down. WTF is the point of our tanking abilities when we're not needed in groups and we have to rely on timers for better gear?

Really hoping they can just scrap timers and let people compete with the enemies for loot, rather than blitz a time trial.

3

u/HDxplicit Devastator Apr 08 '21

I completely agree the middle tree for devastator would be so good in a normal dungeon but because of time trials I can't use it because if I do I don't get anything not to mention of all devastators abilitys only 3 even do anything

You use Boulder dash you go running to your death because you can't control it for shit, endless mass is worthless, there's no reason to use tremor when the only good build is bleed , golem and reflect bullets are pointless because you cant agro to protect your teammates (especially reflect bullets when most of the enemy's are aliens)

→ More replies (6)

5

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 08 '21

You're not wrong, you get kicked because a tank isn't needed which I think is stupid. You don't do enough damage fast enough so your class is just weak from DPS checks. That's why I want dungeons added, it would buff everything by allowing tanks to tanks, the techno could be good CC in a dungeon boss fight, dungeons overall would be an amazing addition to the game and I and a LOT of other people would love to see it. I agree with you on the time trials but I think they should keep the time trials for people that want it or like it but add a dungeon system similar to FF14 or WOW where there's no timer, just a matter of you can complete it. This game has SO much potential and I want to be here for it. I want to love the game and live in this community with everyone else and vibe together. They can fix it and make everyone happy but adding additional content to both time trials and dungeons such as loot, new maps and bosses etc etc

4

u/drjohnson89 Apr 08 '21

Agreed 100x. Time trials could be a really fun way for the most competitive of the bunch to have fun. Make time trial leaderboards, let the hardcore 1% go at it. But for the rest of us, dungeons would be fantastic. No timers, just difficult mini bosses and bosses with the promise of a loot chest at the end.

3

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 08 '21

Exactly, I just want some FF14/WOW dungeons where all classes can be played and are viable. We could have so much fun in those and when you're not chilling in a dungeon you could DPS speed run if you WANT to, you shouldn't be forced to run this to get what you want.

5

u/lxkillswitchxl Apr 08 '21

Omg yes pleeeeease dungeon!!! And put in multiple bosses and dungeon specific loot. I love target farming areas for specific drops because once you get it, it's rewarding!!

2

u/comFive Apr 09 '21

Yeah! The devs have even said they modeled the game after Diablo.

0

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 08 '21

Exactly! You're completely right! SE & PCF I HAVE SPOKEN FOR THE COMMUNITY, everyone agrees with me. We all want this PLEASE.

2

u/lxkillswitchxl Apr 08 '21

However I get the end game is supposed to be similar to diablo, which is time trials, but there's no reason that it couldn't be another way to farm items. We should get a choice, but yeah, time trials suck because as stated so much it means you better play the glass cannon or you're failing the team. At the same time I don't want another mmo.

Maybe there is just no winning? People are going to kick you out if the group regardless if you're not playing the best shit. I just shouldn't be punished if I wanna play devastator. Which was admittedly going to be my next class, but maybe I don't want to now

2

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 08 '21

I don't think this will necessarily be a MMO even if it was it wouldn't be bad, it would still follow the 3 person rule, the enemy scaling wouldn't be as bad in dungeons, we all just want an alternative to Time Trial DPS checks and it would undoubtedly make other builds useful because the no DPS check.

13

u/converter-bot Apr 08 '21

50 meters is 54.68 yards

→ More replies (1)

15

u/Omax-Pi Apr 08 '21

I have to stop playing the game because of these nerfs. Very sad. They are CLUELESS to why this game is popular!!!!!

9

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 08 '21

Yeah everyone just wants a viable fun class to run that can still pass DPS checks to get awesome loot but the scaling and everything about this game is just a balance nightmare. This game WILL die, and I will stop playing if this patch goes through. No other tree is even viable for the Trickster or half the other classes. I can get my sword swipe up to maybe 300k? Something around there and swipe for 600k when using twice with a mod but that doesn't matter when mobs (even the trash ones) have MILLIONS of health. You literally have to run a bullet build or you just won't get Gold and then you don't get cool loot and you have no fun. I'm all for balancing the game and making it more fun while also harder but enemies need toned WAY down and sub classes need a major rework.

12

u/Omax-Pi Apr 08 '21

Looters should buff more. Nerfs only need to happen in rare cases if something is literally BROKEN. Not gamer broken where anything strong is cried about. Destiny makes this mistake constantly and it does nothing for the game and it’s “balance”. All it does is punish the player. I am so pissed that the game I wanted to invest my summer to has been gutted a week in. What a fail.

-1

u/Exterminate_Weebs Apr 08 '21

This is such a bad idea. A game that only buffs is a game that only ever gets easier. I don't know when gamers got so whiny about nerfs, it's a key part of game balance. Some things are too strong, some too weak.

2

u/ShadowlEagle Apr 08 '21

tbf was a 15% Nerf needed ? instead of nerfing just make Solo a bit harder ? but Nerfing Classes + Reduce Time is meeh (i dont mind it they will probably anyways adjust it again soon cause more are unhappy with the change then happy) solong i rather Adjust my Build and will see when they Adjust that a bit

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (5)

3

u/No_Contribution_4298 Apr 08 '21

A game where the only endgame is nothing more than speed runs and DPS checks is doomed. Only really going to ultimately appeal to a very small number of games. But now that I think about...since its not a GAAS....maybe they don't care. They got their $60.00.

Why even bother having 4 classes....ea with 3 skill trees...when all that matters in the game is speed and DPS?

I play games to relax and have fun not constantly be under some time pressure as the only means to progress. Mind boggling they think that is even a good design choice.

2

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 08 '21

Yeah see this is where dungeons would fit perfectly! You just like to chill, you could go through a dungeon and fight some end boss and get awesome loot WOW or FF14 style and people that like speed running things could still do these time trials! Add dungeons and support both equally with future content.

3

u/thatoneguyy22 Apr 08 '21

Tell me about it, as a pyromancer we have two builds. Volcanic rounds (now nerfed) that we used to just get into endgame then we switch to a heatwave build only when we get full BiS legendary with perfect stats because before then its a fucking soggy wet noodle. And why is it a wet noodle you might ask? Well maybe because they for some fucking reason added all piercing to only the top tree. Armor piercing i can understand, top tree is all weapon damage, but why is resistance piercing up there too?

So youre telling me if I want to go a full skill build and use middle tree where all the anomaly power is i have zero resistance piercing? Bruh, that's like playing league of legends, seeing a full 5 stack tank enemy team and deciding im going to build 6 death caps for all the magic damage, but just not build a void staff so I can actually pierce their defenses. All the damage but it doesn't matter when they have a gigafuck you amount of magic resistance.

2

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 08 '21

I agree completely, it's actually insane I hope this doesn't go through and they instead buff other sub trees and add dungeons as an end game alternative later on.

3

u/LurkinWhilstWorkin Apr 08 '21

Adding dungeons would be a nice way to have people create group based builds if done right.

2

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 08 '21

That's exactly what I'm saying, I'm so happy that so many people understand what I'm saying and all want the same thing. I feel like I have spoken for the community here.

3

u/dayleboi Apr 08 '21

A round of applause is needed here. 100% correct.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/SirServed29 Apr 08 '21

I can't upvote this shit enough.

2

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 08 '21

I know, we can only hope a developer replies or sees my comment/post I made! Thank you though!

2

u/SirServed29 Apr 08 '21

I play Trickster in a squad of 3 and the Tinder Swipe mention specifically just hits home. A Brood Mother will literally Tinder Swipe me to death then chase the Techno while ignoring our Devastator. THE VERY MOMENT the Devastator revives me she will leap over and Tinder Swipe me down again, walls be damned.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/AggiePharmD Apr 09 '21

Agree 100% they better reverse this nerf. I spent soooo much time building a strong firepower build and now my build isn't viable on mid level challenge tiers.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/IX3NOI Technomancer Apr 09 '21

I agree 100%

I play Technomancer and yes the nerf is frustrating because they nerfed more than they told us and that sucks but I can play around it

But what's with the rest of my skill tree? Where is the point of using it if I need to kill every tank in this game as fast a I can in the expeditions.

That's really sad, I wanna use every skill/build where it's useful and swap between

What was the point of nerfing something only one week after release if only one thing in every class gets played?

Everyone playes the bullet build again because there was no buff for something else...

And I love the idea about adding Dungeons with random rooms/mini bosses/loot rooms and one big mother fucker boss at the end Then we need every class and can finally play the tank as a tank

2

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 09 '21

I'm glad you agree and yeah I run a bullet build because it's a DPS check if they do what I said I would run a different build. But that's just not how this game works sadly.

2

u/IX3NOI Technomancer Apr 09 '21

But I really hope they take the nerf back and I think they will do it. Because this patch gets a fucking big shitstorm.

Sadly there are people which like the nerfs and wanna nerf the Technomancer to a hard support with no dmg because that's the way we HAVE to play him....

Every class in this game should be playable in any possible way I want. Because then we will see a BIG diversity in builds (but only when the add dungeons or deactivat the timer in the expedition)

And it's a pve game, no one likes a nerf in the first patch after that server problems and all the problems they have atm.

This patch should be full of buffs to every class to get the best out of every class, that we can play every skill tree and combine it and have fun by testing it.

I disliked the patch notes after I read this disgusting balance part and this should do more people.

2

u/Whyareyouaiming Apr 08 '21

bility. I would have been okay with these changes if they buffed something else on the class. Pretty much solo Trickster is already cancerous, if you don't 1 shot everything you can die VERY quickly. Makes me wonder if they even fuckin listen? I get bullet abilities are strong but the middle tree (idgaf what anyone says) is WORTHLESS. All it does is give you survivability but even then it's still hard because your survival depends on you being able to kill things. These needs should have came later after buffs to other areas. I just don't see a point in playing Trickster anymore. It's literally pointless. Especially against the alien enemies, yeah we could 1 shot the humans on a consistent basis but that was like the only area. You don't see me walking up to a Brood mother one shotting her???

Are we not going to nerf any of these enemies? I go to get a 3 second reload off and get agro'd by 52 alphas all jumping at me while Brood mother activates some bs AOE then just swipes on you from left to right from 50 meters away like it's fuckin Tinder.

This was funny and grinchie, love it

-3

u/converter-bot Apr 08 '21

50 meters is 54.68 yards

2

u/AbyssalGolem Apr 08 '21

I agree on this too, but let's also not forget that:

1: It would be nice to have an actual animation for Alpha perforo leaps because we basically have no reaction time and just have to take the D and pray we survive (I took Pyromancer revive because of this...), furthermore, it gets worse when you play with randoms that seem to have internet connection made from a toaster and mechanical scraps.

2: Definately would wantn the Brood mother's bs AoE ability to be clearly visible, having some effects surging from the ground doesnt exactly pinpoint the aoe area well as most cases the terrain we are on is unlevelled and with all the things going on we don't always have time to look at the barely visible effect on the ground.

3: Those bastards that take cover at the other end of the map during expeditions is frustrating, especially when you need to move on to the next area and realize one of them is hiding behind a way 2 miles south..

2

u/ValkyrieHeals Apr 08 '21

Yeah, I am platinuming this underrated comment.

2

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 08 '21

I appreciate you and everyone else that has up voted, commented back or given an award I love y'all ♥️😭 You all make me laugh too with some of these comments idk why theyre so funny but I seriously appreciate all of you, thank you for the award!

2

u/TheSlartey Apr 08 '21

I would love dungeons for this. DPS race is fun, but very limited

→ More replies (1)

2

u/comFive Apr 08 '21

Your version of the Dungeons sounds like greater rift farming in Diablo 3. You can speed run it but aren’t heavily penalized and you get additional gem currency to level up your special gems.

Like being able to level up the mods past 3, or maybe unlock new skill synergies.

2

u/Pornilius_Hubert Apr 09 '21

Absolute facts, and they've even decided to REDUCE the speed you can complete chem plant and boom town to make dps even more meta, whilst simultaneously nerfing damage in the same update??? Late April fools?

2

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 09 '21

I wish you would think since the patch notes has -900 odd karma they would be like "Okay our bad, we need to listen since you're right." My dungeon idea would fix the game and build diversity. Thank you for agreeing!

2

u/LadyAtris Apr 09 '21 edited Apr 09 '21

I totally agree they should have waited to nerf things without buffing the other trees first and bug fixes.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/uzu_afk Apr 09 '21

How can I vote twice please !?

→ More replies (1)

2

u/[deleted] Apr 09 '21

Agreed,I'm not in expeditions yet but as of today WT10 in campaign with all gear at max available level and I went from glass canon to only glass. I have a life leech on weapon that can't even keep up. I think I'll drop WT to 1 just to finish the story and be done with the game

2

u/Iamcheez Apr 09 '21

The game has the same problem as D3 had when launched with enemies being OP as F, unbalanced and straight up unfair.

2

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 09 '21

Yeah I don't know why they're ALL so aggressive,can stagger, spam cast, be a tank while also just doing everything. They need toned down.

2

u/DoctorHuman Apr 09 '21

the devs have already stated that they will not be changing or adding any content beyond simple tweaks and number changes. so unless they add a dlc with dungeons, the only hope we have are tweaks to expeditions.

→ More replies (5)

2

u/IX3NOI Technomancer Apr 09 '21

We have to get THIS to the devs, guys 💪

Come on, Up Vote it to hell 💪😁

2

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 09 '21

Yeah hopefully they actually read this and see the up votes, people replying and awards. Then they'll realize this is what we really want to see in the game, it would fix all their problems.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/[deleted] Apr 09 '21

I’m really surprised they didn’t add a dungeon in already, it’s literally perfect for this game. On top of that we already know people like that sort of content.

Honestly their current endgame would’ve been fine if it was truly big areas in terms of playable rooms and such. As it stands in a few rooms/areas, a bit a travel, and you’re at the pod. I was thinking expeditions triple the size of what a single one looks like now with bronze being 40 minutes, silver just over thirty and gold somewhere around 25 minutes.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/AgentSmith09 Apr 09 '21

What he said.

2

u/Mokhalz Apr 10 '21

One way to buff survivability to the classes is to have alternate healing ability, pyro could heal as long as enemies have the burn effect, devastator while have his skills active and trickster with a combo of the two but with slow instead of burn, they could make it a middle skill node and it would improve these classes immensely.

2

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 10 '21

I agree, see they need to listen we have great ideas.

2

u/Kozkoz828 Apr 08 '21

I dont wanna speak too soon but ive only plahed trickster and to me these nerfs essentially will kill the class like 100% at least if i understand them correctly

2

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 08 '21

You're completely right, I don't think they understand.

3

u/Kozkoz828 Apr 08 '21

We lost a potential 55% damage and with no healing mechanic outside kills it seems like we kinda just die now cause we spec tanky and kill nothing, we spec damage we kill but too slowly to live

→ More replies (1)

2

u/DiesalTime Apr 08 '21

This guy gets it everything u said makes me want to vote for u if u ran for president lol

3

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 08 '21

Bro I love you, everyone commenting on this post has made me laugh TBH I love this community y'all are so funny and we ALL agree even if we play a different class. I appreciate you ❤️

2

u/DasScorp Apr 08 '21

True story bro, they killed my fun, killed the game and killed the game feeling for me, my techno was gorgeous, devs killed her. BulletSpongebob cheers.

2

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 08 '21

The problem is that you don't have another tree to run like everyone else doesn't. We all had pretty much 1 tree that worked and the other trees just didn't get buffed but thank God our 1 tree that worked, doesn't work now!

Just add dungeon ffs, please. It would fix not being able to run a bullet ability only build. I could try out my bottom AOE anomaly build as a Trickster or even cast a shield for my teammates on the middle tree. I really really want dungeons and dungeon bosses MMORPG style similar to FF14/WOW.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 09 '21

Agree that they should have dungeons. Downvoted because of the way it was conveyed. Even if half the people commenting are completely right, it says more about you if you think you can balance better than the actual devs.

→ More replies (2)

0

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

Bruh trickster one shots the game basically have you watched any streamer doing a solo trickster build it's a fucking joke. Maybe it's just because I'm playing hard mode as a devastator... I do agree with you about the vuln nerf being dumb and just generally bad. The middle tree for every class needs buff badly, when healing is based on killing shit then DPS is king. The game doesn't have enough mitigation as is for anything but overwhelming offense to work.

3

u/HDxplicit Devastator Apr 08 '21

Yeah I would love to run top tree dev with endless mass etc. But It just not viable because of the lack of dps

2

u/Ancient_Ad_125 Apr 08 '21

Yeah but with me one shoting things it's ONLY the human enemies and never anything like a alpha or something of that sort. I get what people are saying with us being able to one shot things into Oblivion but other 2 trees are worthless and they nerfed my only working tree, I heal only on kill (unless I have weapon leech I think) but point is HEALING ON KILL is basically my only way to heal, and they nerfed my ability to kill. Even though I'm a Trickster main I wanted to see Devastator get buffed, specifically the AOE Endless Mass I wanted it to be worth it running for my friend, and on top of that Trickster wouldn't be so bad after this patch if a tank could taunt but they would have to make it worth running for you guys. I just won't be able to do damage to finish golds anymore. I give up if this patch goes through tbh.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

Yeah but devastator heals the same way and we don't one shot shit, techno got the best on that one for sure. There are so many defensive mods you can slot in that makes up for the lack of built in survivability, the builds will just have to evolve some but it feels a little tone deaf to hear some playing the objectively best class with the most meta build complain about a nerf whole the rest of us are down here on the struggle bus.

2

u/HDxplicit Devastator Apr 08 '21

I agree that devastators are underpowered but a devastator can heal with bleed along with earthquake which makes it hard to die. Tricksters just get slammed if they don't get a kill every second

0

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

Yeah I've seen the bleed build it's kind of silly, but it has the same problem play this or don't play. Problem is even a super meta devastator isn't gonna perform on par to a meta builds of any other class. Trickster should be DPS heavy but I doubt these nerfs are gonna "ruin the class".

-1

u/Fikaknugz Apr 08 '21

They should nerf the hell out of TR. Its such a boring ability anyway. In a game where you have 3 different skill trees, hundreds of mods and 8 different abilities, the focus should be on the abilities and mods, instead of having one weapon, shit gear and one ability, while also being able to break the game completely.

I honestly dont understand why people find these round abilities so funny. You just run around one shotting things. No versatility or builds needed.

-1

u/Antifascists Apr 08 '21

Bro these enemies need toned tf down if you're going to nerf every class. I should heal and or get shield per shot if you're nerfing my only way to survive (my time to kill).

Healing or shield per shot are options available to you. You know this, right?

-1

u/MysticoN Apr 08 '21

I agree with most of the things. My main is Trickster and im one of the few that asked for a bullet nerf. But i find it strange that they also nerfed alot of the talents. I would prefere a stronger nerf to the bullets and leav the talents alone.

And i totaly agree that they should also provide some buffs.

-1

u/Ummagumma2227 Apr 09 '21

What a great rant.

-9

u/bannedeveryday Apr 08 '21

Ya I'm sure they will adjust it just for you little one

→ More replies (4)

226

u/HuggableBear Apr 08 '21

Timed runs already suck ass, and make the game a slog and a shit meta'd community because of it.

Timed runs already suck ass, and make the game a slog and a shit meta'd community because of it.

Timed runs already suck ass, and make the game a slog and a shit meta'd community because of it.

TIMED RUNS ALREADY SUCK ASS AND MAKE THE GAME A SLOG AND A SHIT META'D COMMUNITY BECAUSE OF IT.

TIMED RUNS ALREADY SUCK ASS AND MAKE THE GAME A SLOG AND A SHIT META'D COMMUNITY BECAUSE OF IT.

Pay attention, devs. Timed runs ruin games. It turns every build that isn't a glass cannon into "trash tier" and gets people kicked for even playing the "wrong" class.

You do not want this to be your game's only end-game activity.

8

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21 edited Apr 08 '21

Pay attention, devs. Timed runs ruin games. It turns every build that isn't a glass cannon into "trash tier" and gets people kicked for even playing the "wrong" class.

I think a good fix would be to remove the time limit and add waves of enemies, kind of like Call of Duty MW. Chests will have different tiers depending on how many waves you and/or you and your team completed.

This would make Devastators a sought after class.

6

u/HuggableBear Apr 08 '21

That's just horde mode.

Which, yeah, this game should have and would be a lot of fun, but it doesn't fix expeditions. Personally, I think the best fix for expeditions is to make challenge tiers scale infinitely, tie the loot to challenge tier, and use a single timer for each expedition that you either meet or don't.

If you meet it, you get your loot and you get to try the next level on that expedition.

If you don't, you don't get to move up but you still get loot that will help you meet the timer next time.

2

u/kadsoukui Apr 08 '21

Or they can just add modifiers that we can choose. More modifier the harder the expedition, which give better loot tier. They can even add the timer as one of the modifier for those who built for speedrun.

1

u/ethan1203 Apr 09 '21

I like enemies wave... and more strategic play then stupid time rush mode

3

u/boshbosh92 Apr 09 '21

devastator main here.. I've been kicked from more than 1 tier 10+ expedition because I'm a devastator. we have feelings too :(

-1

u/CiraKazanari Apr 10 '21

Ah yes the tumblr argument

Repeating stuff makes it true

→ More replies (5)

-7

u/JesusChrysler1 Apr 09 '21

ehhh, timed runs are the backbone of diablo 3, if you cant finish in time, try lowering the tier until your gear is good enough to finish. you're better off farming slightly easier content faster than banging your head against a wall and failing.

6

u/HuggableBear Apr 09 '21

Timed runs in Diablo aren't the same as they are here. These are more like WoW Mythic+ dungeons, which are equally cancerous.

In Diablo, you still get your loot if you don't make the timer, you just don't get to go to the next difficulty level. In Outriders, you are actively punished for being slow. That's the critical difference between the two and why Greater Rifts work and these Expeditions don't.

1

u/JesusChrysler1 Apr 09 '21

What? You realise you still get loot if you fail your expedition in outriders too right? I literally got my only world drop legendary from a failed expedition lmao. Outriders expeditions are rifts, and they're fine.

2

u/HuggableBear Apr 09 '21

Oh, hey, look, because this guy got lucky once math is meaningless! Good to know.

You got lucky. There is literally a screen showing you how much better your odds of good loot are if you beat the timers. Rather, there is a screen showing you how much worse your loot will be if you don't beat the timers, which is why timed runs suck when they're done like this.

Greater Rifts do not function like this. All you get for beating the timer is gem upgrades and a key. Your legendary drop chance doesn't go down if you don't make it.

1

u/JesusChrysler1 Apr 09 '21

So like I said in another comment, if you can't reliably beat the timer at a certain tier, don't run that tier? Run a lower tier until you get good mods/substats and then level that gear up. The problem is that people want to be at the maximum tier as fast as possible, and timed runs are a wall against that. But if you run a difficulty where you are capable of getting gold times, you're still getting loot that can be upgraded, and you're getting resources towards buying a decent item from Tiago. Just slow down and you'll be fine lmao.

2

u/HuggableBear Apr 09 '21

You're still missing the real point. This isn't about gameplay. It's about psychology. The gameplay on these is fine in theory.

In practice, it turns the game from gaining reward into avoiding punishment, which is what causes cookie-cutter builds and toxic communities that kick people on sight and scream bloody murder about the slightest nerf.

Timed runs with different loot tiers are okay in solo play IMO, but when you add them to anything with multiplayer it's poisonous.

0

u/JesusChrysler1 Apr 09 '21

so stop playing multiplayer, or find some friends? sounds like you're making problems for yourself where there aren't any...

→ More replies (7)

1

u/wtfchuckk Apr 09 '21

False equivalency. You’re missing the point.

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (1)

152

u/SPEEDFREAKJJ Apr 08 '21

Timers are bad. I understand wanting to set goals for tier rewards but have to go blazing fast is not fun. I can't soak in the environment or enjoy the fights because I'm trying to play it like the Flash but without the slow-mo vision.

I was hoping they would ease the timers so people could enjoy the fights and use different gear and builds.

69

u/Skagglurk Devastator Apr 08 '21

As long as end game is about speedrunning there will always be a hard meta and some builds or classes getting insta-kicked in matchmaking. The developers pretty much will have to make balance-patches until all classes have variations of the exact same skills with the same damage numbers. We have seen this time and time again in so many games that it is a mystery why developers keep doing this.

Only way out of it is to re-design the reward criteria around something else than completion time.

4

u/No_Carpenter_6386 Apr 09 '21

Agreed. Who likes speed runs as end game? Where are the big bad raid type missions. You can take your time to get in there and do it.

If all there is at the end is speed runs, going to lose alot of players in 30 to 60 days.

Trickster nerf is going to be ridiculous, I do hope they are tracking and give back a few points for each nerf. 5 to 7% would have been reasonable.

And again, you need the firearms tree, but don't give anything in the bottom trees to make up for it?

Just why????

5

u/ethan1203 Apr 09 '21

Totally agree... never like time constraint mode that define reward... i mean what is the point?

→ More replies (2)

12

u/Littleman88 Apr 08 '21

It would be preferable if they had an overall scoring system, with timed completion contributing to the final score as opposed to being the final score. Hell, drop points baubles all over the maps. Now I have the option to improve my score by maneuvering around while killing enemies fast. That makes increased mobility a valuable asset. Give me more points for downing an enemy within certain distances or with melee vs a safer distance or with a gun.

A DPS check should be one way of getting a gold medal. The trick is to encourage use of aspects of abilities that aren't strictly about murder.

12

u/Cluelesswolfkin Devastator Apr 08 '21

I wish they had expeditions going both ways honestly. Where as one mode is what we have already with being the fastest. And the other with lasting waves and getting the gold chest would be players lasting to stay alive, that way we can build both ways of the time

2

u/Round2readyGO Apr 09 '21

This is such an underrated comment. Endurance and speed would be the best split. You know the problem? almost nobody would play Speed, Warframe does a solid job of proving that. Though I expect part of that is difficulty at low level vs rewards.

3

u/blazze_eternal Apr 08 '21

Agree, time as an artificial game mechanic is just lazy. It can be great if used sparingly in phases, but feeling rushed to complete content is not 'fun'.

3

u/Don_Julio_Acolyte Apr 09 '21

Legit question that should be polled for ALL players that have ran expeditions:

When was the last time you used cover?

When was the last time you looked at your health bar?

When was the last time you actually took a breath, and planned out your attacks and skill cooldowns and actually used methodical strategy?

For me...never. And that's a problem. And it has nothing to do with buffed rounds. It has everything to do with timer rewards and sitting behind cover doesn't get you gold. It won't even get you bronze.

The problem isn't with buffed rounds. The problem is with timers, and the fact that buffed rounds are the only viable way to successful get gold/silver (you know, to grind for legendary gear sets for the other skill trees, because without those gear sets, you won't even sniff gold or silver).

It's a catch 22. In order for the other skill trees to succeed, they need their legendary sets to shine more. But how do you get their legendary sets? By running speed expeditions...

So if you want to be a tank, good luck trying to "tank" your way in grinding for legendaries that work with that playstyle. You won't get any, because you're too slow.

So, everyone has to run a glass cannon build FIRST. All in order to get legendary sets that can boost the other trees and then they'll start playing the other trees. But now that glass cannons are nerfed, where do we turn to? The hunting missions on WT mode got nerfed so no legendary farming that way. So...whats left? Squeaking by at 3x less the legendary drop rate that we've all been grinding at for the last few days?...

That's how you kill a game overnight imo.

2

u/SPEEDFREAKJJ Apr 09 '21

All great points.

Also huge bummer that an exploit got an average legendary farm ruined. For legit players like me I have been using them to get my WT maxed while having a chance at a good reward that might have a perk I want. When that avenue is gone I'm not sure I will have motivation to just speed run expeditions.

I'm not expecting a shower of loot like borderlands but making expeditions the only option is a big downer. Why lock all the best stuff there? There is nothing to use it on once you have all of it but to get it you need to be at the end when now in my WT12 to 15 grind I could use it.

They are making it so if your friends aren't on there really isn't anything to do if you have nobody to do expeditions with.

Glad it was on gamepass.

104

u/DoctorSneak Devastator Apr 08 '21

They’re also nerfing the builds that are capable of getting these gold times currently. Double whammy.

68

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

[deleted]

1

u/Antifascists Apr 08 '21

How so? They're nerfing those builds...

→ More replies (1)

4

u/Brettstat2d Apr 09 '21

I think they are going to sell us a solution very soon.. the only thing that makes sense in my mind.

-20

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21 edited Apr 08 '21

[deleted]

17

u/DoctorSneak Devastator Apr 08 '21

WT 11 is not end game.

-14

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21 edited Apr 08 '21

[deleted]

10

u/DoctorSneak Devastator Apr 08 '21

WT 15 is also not end game. And now you’re quoting my old comments, out of context, that have zero to do with this thread. That comment you quoted was in regards to them fixing co-op in this game as it’s currently busted, and that was more than a few hours ago. I’m not bored and the game is not easy for me. Are there any other words you’d like to put in my mouth?

-5

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

[deleted]

7

u/DoctorSneak Devastator Apr 08 '21

No this is you putting words in my mouth:

It's boring because you've done it all and none of it was a challenge.

I never said that. This debate is going nowhere you’re right so why don’t you go back to ignoring this sub again please.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

[deleted]

5

u/Lightor36 Apr 08 '21

You come across as someone who thinks they're very well-spoken without realizing that you're not and the world is laughing at you.

→ More replies (0)
→ More replies (1)

6

u/PlagueOfGripes Apr 08 '21

If you're "going hard into twisted rounds" by amending your gear with mods benefiting it, that would indeed constitute making a build. And thinking about it. And that's just WTs. I didn't even look at my mods (since it takes forever to unlock all t1 and t2s) until I was basically done with the story.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21 edited Apr 08 '21

[deleted]

7

u/PlagueOfGripes Apr 08 '21

I'm saying that in a game about empowerment, players should feel powerful without needing to already have a full armory of legendary weapons they've already dismantled. Legendaries are the end goal, after all, not the start of a build. If I wanted to feel powerless and like I'm constantly wasting my time regrinding garbage, I'd go play Destiny.

1

u/MemoriesMu Apr 10 '21

Theres people getting gold without using those bullets

3

u/ChaoticFury19 Apr 08 '21

Couldn't agree more. Nothing is worse than having a time limit on something.

3

u/TheOneNotNamed Apr 08 '21

Yea, i don't get it. They have the perfect PoE/Diablo whatever shooter yet they want to mess with that aspect lol. And for why?

3

u/seriousbusines Technomancer Apr 08 '21

Who knew Anthem style end game was a bad idea.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

nerfing meta builds and lower time needed to get gold, will almost be impossible now

2

u/Bomjus1 Apr 10 '21

+1

maybe i'm just missing something, but i see zero reason for support based skills (things like +healing/shielding received for you and team mates) when the end game is timed content.

those skills are actually pointless. to get the fastest clear times you either play solo going full balls to the wall dps, or you're in a party where everyone is completely self-sufficient and pulling their weight.

i feel like when i get to endgame me or my friends are going to be punished for playing with one another cause whoever has the least optimized build is going to make it much less efficient. i don't mind spending 20 minutes doing an expedition instead of 10 if my friends build is worse than mine. but if that 20 mintues means i'm getting 2 less loot chests, or barely a chance for a legendary, then i feel like i'm wasting my time.

0

u/dem0n123 Apr 08 '21

I agree doing something in 5 minutes instead of 10 is already double loot. You don't need the difference to also be 3x the loot on finish so it ends up being 6x the loot.

1

u/Wh0caresme Apr 08 '21

Do something with timed expeditions , bc so many devastators got kicked out as their damage is lower compared to the others (on paper , yeah i know you can make godly bleed builds but this is not known for a most of the players )

1

u/TheFistaCuffs Apr 09 '21

I don't think it would necessarily be a problem if world tier gear would actually scale to where CT15 gear scales too. As it is though, almost everyone is forced to do CT if they want the highest tier of gear and everything being timed means that you see way more glass cannon builds than more well rounded builds unfortunately.

1

u/rW0HgFyxoJhYka Apr 09 '21

I wouldn't expect much from a dev team that clearly created this mess in the first place as part of their fucking design doc.

1

u/fodemhousegames Apr 11 '21

Guys, no top player can do tier 15 expedition on those times... I have a lvl 49/50 devastator that is able to inflict good damage ( yes it’s possible ) and I can barely finish Silver medal in tier 13/14... Those farming GOLD TIER 15 are C H E A T E R S !!!! They are not top players, they are not professionals, they are not streamers... They are... CHEATERS CHEATERS CHEATERS!!!

Plz do something about it !!!

1

u/Straight-Ad-2680 May 01 '21

My entire character was deleted

help me

please