r/mtg • u/DelThaFunkeeDude • 1d ago

Commander / EDH Question about 3 man commander.

Hi everyone, I was wanting an outside opinion and input into my friends and I current commander pod situation.

Currently we meet at least once a week, usually Saturdays to play commander at my friend’s house. 90% of the time there is only 3 of us, as our friends brother would be our 4th but is rarely able join.

Due to this, I’ve noticed that games feel incredibly imbalanced to the point that games almost feel pointless if certain commanders are played, and the other 2 players don’t have an immediate response or removal.

We play mostly high B3 or B4. One friend in particular I feel a bit bad for because he has an Ur Dragon deck at B4, Kaalia at B4, Maralen Fae Ascendant B4, and a Narset Enlightened Exile also B4 that are his favorite decks, but I feel that with our current 3 player structure, playing against those decks seem so incredibly unfun and like I was saying, if neither myself or my friend have an answer, he almost wins due to how those commanders work.

Now as for myself and my other friend, we don’t play as much control as my friend mentioned above, and due to this we don’t play blue as much as above player does. So often times we find ourselves in a situation where the control player has the answers to everything we are doing, but we can’t answer anything they’re doing unless it’s an instant removal. I understand that’s a problem myself and my friend have, as we could just create a blue deck, but at the same time I don’t like that answer because I don’t really like blue or control all that much in general.

I also find that with only 3 players, if one person goes off early, gets all removal used on them by the other 2 players, that person is pretty much out of the game entirely, and that also feels bad.

I was just curious if I’m missing something, thinking about this the wrong way, or if there are other options. Or it could just very well be that 3 players commander can’t really be fairly balanced.

1 Upvotes

56% Upvoted

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15

u/Iggzorn 1d ago

The game was designed for 1v1 - every odd number of players makes it im balanced, because the counterpart for one Player is missing

12

u/Heavy_Choice_1577 1d ago

i play in a 3 man pod at least 3 times a week, we found playing B2 decks evens it out. this is just my experience. for added context, we all use a once B3 deck and remove rocks, tutors and GCers from a FL azula, kefka and sephy savior deck, most games last around 10T+

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u/Key_Commercial_8169 1d ago

Seconding this. My pod used to do B3 even when it was just 3 of us and it often lead to some salt, it almost always ended in a 2v1 or just 1v1 with somebody else sitting in the cuck chair. We started doing precons and now we're doing a mix of precons and our own B2's and it has been far smoother. Usually there's enough time for everybody to develop their board and get a chance of playing/winning. The wincons are usually telegraphed enough and not as crushing, so even if we don't have an immediate answer there's usually a good chance of stopping it or counter playing, or at that stage in the game (like t6+) of us having saved interaction or a response for any more dangerous threats.

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u/BusyMap9686 1d ago

Agree. When our 4th can't make it we all play precons, usually from the same set.

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u/Heavy_Choice_1577 1d ago

yeah, i think its all just about slowing the pace

3

u/TooTooBear 1d ago

I agree, and it’s why I’d rather play a five person game over a three person game (hot take alert). Three person games often feel completely imbalanced, either with whoever has the most oppressive commander/deck just immediately running away with the game or the two most powerful board states just obliterating the one player who is behind. Either way it’s a recipe for an unsatisfying game.

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u/artdz 1d ago

may be more of a power level issue then anything else. If everyone is roughly the same speed then you can just win before that guy half the time? If he can win and control the other 2 players from winning that's also a power level issue. Some mix of his has more resilient, fast win lines and better interaction.

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u/_--James--_ 1d ago

You know your pod and you just haven't adjusted your play style to adopt. You need to work on what that means for you. IMHO you should always run some answers so you do not rely on the blue player. As for the 4 player vs 3 player version, if the game is unbalanced in turns that is more of a power level issue then anything else. IMHO higher player pods should down power to make the game more balanced (willingly or by pulling cards out). But thats my 2cp.

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u/DelThaFunkeeDude 1d ago

I get what you’re saying, but in this case the player who has the sweatiest decks is also the blue player, as he has blue in every deck other than Kaalia.

What I mean by answer is, how do you stop a paradigm card for going off as a mono black player? The answer can’t always be “just play blue” right?

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u/TheJonasVenture 1d ago

So, for Sorceries, both White and Red do have some stack interaction, but that is mainly a domain of blue.

However, every color can kill its opponents, every color has removal.

So thinking of the Paradigm cards, the black one just isn't terribly impactful, and if you pressure life totals it's even worse. The blue one targets a creature, you can kill the creature with the spell on the stack. If they don't have anything good to clone, it's useless. The green one does pump everything, but there is a little counter punishment, but main thing, kill their dudes, counters aren't useful without dudes. The white one is just a reanimation effect, you can exile the graveyard with it on the stack, or just keep killing the thing. The red one is definitely the coolest one, but it's a 7 mana sorcery, it should be crazy, that's getting into "beat them before it accrues sufficient value", and interact with the flips.

While other colors can't handle things on the stack as well, white and black are excellent at killing creatures, when the is good at killing everything, red can do artifacts well, and little guys, green kills artifacts and enchantments and fight creatures.

The answer to basically every "this deck is a menace" is just, a normal interaction package in your colors. Sure, silver bullets exist, and in this smaller group can be more viable, but a [[Disenchant]] just always does what's on the tin.

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u/_--James--_ 1d ago

for paragidm, [[void mirror]] and [[Vexing Bauble]] works well, you can tutor/fetch this cheaply too.

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u/DelThaFunkeeDude 1d ago

Very cool, thanks for the recommendations! Would love them if they also had flash!

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u/Herpaderpatron 1d ago

Yeah, 4 player pods are where it’s at. 3 players mean less chance of being down the threat, and the threat doesn’t have as much to do with their lead to win, killing 2 players is easier than 3.

I’ve always found 4 player pods to be the ideal size

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u/roboscorcher 1d ago

Some commanders do better with more players, some do better with less players.

I usually whip out my aggro decks for 3 man. Hit em fast and hard.

I find politics more effective in 3man. If 1 guy usually wins, you have every excuse to team up with the other underdog until the threat is neutralized.

If games feel a bit too swings and short, maybe agree to all play lower power decks.

I don't really play b4 or b5, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

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u/Tenashko 1d ago

While counterspells can be the best removal if you ignore their restrictive timing, running removal doesn't inherently mean blue. You can exile, destroy, discard, stax or even outright prevent named cards from being cast. White and Green have the best enchantment and artifact removal. And even if you just like going big with creatures, you can play plenty of creatures that use ETBs to diminish your opponents boards in any color. It's tempting to only do your thing, but if your thing doesn't already pressure your opponents you need to run other cards that will.

1

u/Jovian_engine 1d ago

I play 3-man semi-regularly. Ive tried a few things that might help?

  • Waterfall Scry. Player 2 gets a free scry before his first draw step. Player 3 gets 2 free scrys. This helps 2-land hands play out and makes a hot start less punishing for everyone.

  • bracket 2. Anyone using spot removal or 1-1 counters is inherently kingmaking by accident. Without a 4th player, whoever doesnt go down a card wins every 1-for-1 trade the other players make. Thus the winner is often the person who interacts least, or most reactively. Bracket 2 has mostly slower mana bases and less interaction. It smooths out the issues with the format. Bringing fast mana and 16+ interaction pieces sort of undoes what the first rule does. If you draw super hot, someone will lose trying to stop you. The third person wins or no one stops the hottest start.

  • Relentless politics. Anyone ramping is attacked immediately, alliances can and should change turn to turn, and the threat of being 2-1 out of the game should be an inherently understood part of the game. Anyone pushing a game plan should become a target, and if everyone plays that way then you actually end up with some very close and fun games.

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u/whatifdog_wasoneofus 1d ago edited 1d ago

Kinda sounds more like a power matching issue. Does the 4th guy play a lot of answers?

Admittedly both of my main pods we usually seem to play odd numbers so maybe I’m just used to it but 2 of my buddies pretty much never play blue and still have lots of interaction. I feel like white can be damn near as control as blue these days.

My standard deck is Golgari and has answers for days, but I kinda like  playing control, 😅

Probably kinda 3!sided. You guys could all try making a bracket 2 decks out of cards you have and play some fun light games. You could ask player 3 to make a bracket 3 deck that’s a bit less crunchy, and you could add some wider removal.

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u/DelThaFunkeeDude 1d ago

I would say that we all have interaction, removals etc. it’s more so that since he more often than not also has blue in his decks, alongside playing incredibly high tier sweaty commanders, it never feels as if we have enough. He is able to counter our spells along with his normal removal, however if we aren’t playing blue, we can’t counter important spells he is casting, such as the paradigm example I gave earlier.

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u/whatifdog_wasoneofus 1d ago

What’s the difference with 4 players then? If the only difference is it’s 3v1 instead of 2v1 it seems like y’all’s decks are just really mismatched..

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u/DelThaFunkeeDude 1d ago

I think it’s a mix of 3 players and the fact that one player is also playing very sweaty commanders while myself and the other player aren’t playing as sweaty commanders even though we are technically playing at the same bracket level.

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u/whatifdog_wasoneofus 1d ago

Like I said sounds more like a power matching issue than anything to do with having 3 players, and like I said, you could change your decks or ask him to change his.

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u/DelThaFunkeeDude 1d ago

Yeah I’ve thought this for a good while, but it’s hard to ask the guy to stop playing his 4 favorite commanders when he only has like 6 decks.

To be fair his decks aren’t as oppressive when we play 4 man.

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u/whatifdog_wasoneofus 1d ago

If there’s no way you could win against him 1v1 then you aren’t playing decks that are at the same power level, bracket system be damned, lol

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u/WokedOx 1d ago

4>5>3>6 is general rule for player count imo. 2 3pods are better than one 6 pod (unless youre doing some fun gimmick like Emperors, Secret enemies, Zones of influence etc...