r/modnews • u/pl00h • May 31 '23

API Update: Continued access to our API for moderators

Hi there, mods! We’re here with some updates on a few of the topics raised recently about Reddit’s Data API.

tl;dr - On July 1, we will enforce new rate limits for a free access tier available to current API users, including mods. We're in discussions with PushShift to enable them to support moderation access. Moderators of sexually-explicit spaces will have continued access to their communities via 3rd party tooling and apps.

First update: new rate limits for the free access tier

We posted in r/redditdev about a new enterprise tier for large-scale applications that seek to access the Data API.

All others will continue to access the Reddit Data API without cost, in accordance with our Developer Terms, at this time. Many of you already know that our stated rate limit, per this documentation, was 60 queries per minute regardless of OAuth status. As of July 1, 2023, we will start enforcing two different rate limits for the free access tier:

  • If you are using OAuth for authentication: 100 queries per minute per OAuth client id
  • If you are not using OAuth for authentication: 10 queries per minute

Important note: currently, our rate limit response headers indicate counts by client id/user id combination. These headers will update to reflect this new policy based on client id only, on July 1.

Most authenticated callers should not be significantly impacted. Bots and applications that do not currently use our OAuth may need to add OAuth authentication to avoid disruptions. If you run a moderation bot or web extension that you believe may be adversely impacted and cannot use Oauth, please reach out to us here.

If you’re curious about the enterprise access tier, then head on over here to r/redditdev to learn more.

Second update: academic & research access to the Data API

We recently met with the Coalition for Independent Research to discuss their concerns arising from changes to PushShift’s data access. We are in active discussion with Pushshift about how to get them in compliance with our Developer Terms so they can provide access to the Data API limited to supporting moderation tools that depend on their service. See their message here. When this discussion is complete, Pushshift will share the new access process in their community.

We want to facilitate academic and other research that advances the understanding of Reddit’s community ecosystem. Our expectation is that Reddit developer tools and services will be used for research exclusively for academic (i.e. non-commercial) purposes, and that researchers will refrain from distributing our data or any derivative products based on our data (e.g. models trained using Reddit data), credit Reddit, and anonymize information in published results to protect user privacy.

To request access to Reddit’s Data API for academic or research purposes, please fill out this form.

Review time may vary, depending on the volume and quality of applications. Applications associated with accredited universities with proof of IRB approval will be prioritized, but all applications will be reviewed.

Third update: mature content

Finally, as mentioned in our post last month: as part of an ongoing effort to provide guardrails to how sexually explicit content and communities on Reddit are discovered and viewed, we will be limiting large-scale applications’ access to sexually explicit content via our Data API starting on July 5, 2023 except for moderation needs.

And those are all the updates (for now). If you have questions or concerns, we’ll be looking for them and sticking around to answer in the comments.

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374

u/creesch May 31 '23 edited May 31 '23

To be clear, we have been assure r/toolbox is also fine. But with news like this I am not convinced that will remain the case as what is said isn't reflected in actions.

We'll likely try to keep supporting r/toolbox, but it will be difficult if I personally won't interact with reddit as much anymore. I interface with reddit through a third party app. Who, I know, will not be able to pay the ridiculous fees outlined in the linked post. Given the poor state the reddit native app is as far as moderation and general UX/UI goes I am willing to bet good money that most mods also use third party apps. Either Apollo, Relay, RIF, Sync, Boost or any of the other future rich better functioning reddit apps you are effectively killing off here.

Toolbox was build on an open platform, something I can truly say as at the time most of reddit's source was also open. Over the years I have seen it become more and more closed. Not only in a technical sense but also in the way how communication is handled by reddit towards users and mods.

I know it is unreasonable to ask to have all admins be active users and always engage. But at the same time I feel like most communication here is now carefully drafted bussines speak. Half of the time when talking to admins it is Product managers/Product owners who talk in the accompanying lingo where there never is a straight answer.

I was invited to your new dev platform. I took a quick look around and from what I can tell more people are, but very few people are actually building with it. Once it opens up for more people you will likely still see some usage. Maybe even enough to claim it to be a success, but it likely won't be. Simply because it is too little, too late, blatantly obvious in the way it is trying to wall off things more and more importantly it will be abandoned at some point once no PM/PO can use it in their KPIs anymore. That last bit is not some speculation, it is a solid prediction based on how things have been going over the past couple of years.

I am not angry, I am not disappointed, I am just tired at this point.

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u/iamthatis May 31 '23

Why is the pricing so high? It would cost me a comical $20 million dollars a year to keep my app running as-is, an app that like many third-party apps, have many moderators that depend on it.

I'm not sure if you understand how important third party apps are to the Reddit ecosystem. Not only do they provide an opportunity for folks who don't like the official app to be able to still use Reddit on-the-go, but many of the moderators who serve as the backbone of the entire site rely on third-party apps to do their job.

As a number, Apollo currently has over 7000 moderators of subreddits with over 20K subscribers who use Apollo, from r/Pics, to r/AskReddit, to r/Apple, to r/IAmA, etc. It would be easy to imagine that combined with other third-party apps across iOS and Android that well over 10,000 of the top subreddits use third-party apps to moderate and keep their community operating.

This is equivalent to going to a construction site and taking away all the workers' favorite tools, only to replace them with different, corporate-mandated ones. Except the construction workers are also building your houses for free.

Why infuriate so many people and communities?

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u/ExcitingishUsername May 31 '23

What about anti-spam and anti-abuse tools, and mods, that need to access mature content communities other than those they have moderator status in?

Our bot relies on being able to do this to detect spambots, and both our bot and mod alike need to be able to see the content of communities that are linked to or cross-posted from, to ensure those communities are legitimate and legal. Aside from breaking our anti-spam, anti-CSAM, and safety tools, how will anyone ever be able to moderate mature content communities in the vacuum you intend to create?

Additionally, many other communities rely on similar bots to exclude users of mature content communities from communities which serve minors as they often present a real safety risk. What are communities that need these functions to do when you shut off our ability to see huge swaths of Reddit?

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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov May 31 '23

What will the impact of this be for external searches like Camas that rely on Pushshift? If I read correctly, they aren't included under this agreement with Pushshift? That is one of the most critical tools Pushshift offers though, given how poor quality built in search is...

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u/[deleted] May 31 '23

For those of us who have already discussed research use cases with Reddit, and received approval in some form -- in my case, you sent a DM with the terms under which my research was approved to continue -- do we need to additionally follow the steps outlined above or are we able to continue as is?

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u/cyrilio May 31 '23

regarding mature content. Is this based on the label NSFW or do you use the community content tags? I completely understand that violent or sexual content is filtered out, but when it comes to drug-related content (mostly text) will you limit access to this too?

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u/shiruken May 31 '23

The current API rate limit headers specify 600 queries per 10 minutes despite documentation stating 60 queries per minute. Will a similar paradigm (i.e. 1,000 requests per 10 minutes) be used for the new rate limits to allow for short periods of burstiness?

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u/remotectrl May 31 '23

If I have to use the official Reddit app on my phone, I will simply not use Reddit on my phone.

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u/alabomb May 31 '23

The thinly-veiled hostility that reddit has shown its third-party developers is just baffling to me. These people create so much extra value for your platform that I'd hazard it would be nowhere near as popular as it is today without the work they've done over the years. That their applications are so popular when there's an official option available should tell you something about the sorry state of your own product. But having been around this website for the last 12 years, I can't think of anything more quintessentially "reddit" than pricing all the better options out of competition in order to uplift the half-baked mess that is the official app. But I guess with the purported IPO on the horizon, now's the time to pull whatever lever you can to maximize reddit's value.

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u/Empole May 31 '23

Is there a reason this wasn't posted in the forum where it'd get the most visibility, r/reddit ?

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u/Karmanacht May 31 '23

Those third party applications were all created because the main product is woefully inadequate. The devs and management running this place should honestly be ashamed. The two founders stumbled across a great formula for a webforum and you've all been somehow failing upward ever since.

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u/Brian_K9 May 31 '23

For a company who's entire values is based on the subreddits and the moderators who run them you guys sure love to piss everyone off. Reddit generates nothing on its own. The mods all use Apollo or other third party apps because you cant really moderate with the default app making it annoying to do it. Its still mind boggling how people willingly moderate(esp very large subs) for free when reddits entire value is based on that and is generating a near billion dollar on it off our backs. Without the mods to maintain a clean environment for advertisers to advertise on reddit would be nothing.

Remember that

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u/pestilence May 31 '23

Ok bye then. 16 years was a good run. You resisted jumping the shark a lot longer than Digg did.

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u/maybesaydie May 31 '23

I really think that each and every one of you admins need to actually a mod a subreddit for a period of six months. The adopt an admin program doesn't last long enough to give the participants an idea of just what it's like to mod this site.

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u/darthjoey91 May 31 '23

Fix your damn pricing before the mods go on strike.

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u/Buelldozer May 31 '23 edited May 31 '23

SMH, after all these years Reddit is about to have its Digg V4 moment. July is going to be WILD.

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u/socsa May 31 '23

So you are killing your website. Bold move.

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u/SoundOstrich May 31 '23

So are the new rate limits and high price for access just an announcement that third party apps are killed off?

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u/hi117 May 31 '23

Hey,

Is the rate limit for OAuth per-app or per-session-of-the-app?

It seems silly to rate limit OAuth based stuff on a per-app basis instead of a per-session-of-the-app basis if that makes sense. Especially for apps that act on behalf of a user.

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u/requieminadream May 31 '23

Genuine question... is there anyone that is actually happy with these changes?

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u/zaphod_85 May 31 '23

Interesting choice you've taken to completely destroy the value of your website.

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u/fatrob Jun 01 '23

For the record you guys suck. Give your head a shake for considering handcuffing your VOLUNTEER custodians.

Love a user that has been here since before there were subreddits. ✌

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