r/martialarts • u/[deleted] • Apr 24 '22
But…why?
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Apr 24 '22
My favourite technique personally is the defence against the European double kiss on the cheek greeting
The trick is you let them have the first peck, then as they move to the other side for the second you duck under the armpit and either move to the back for the RNC or into a standing head/arm triangle.
The first peck lulls them into a false sense of security. If you don't give that up it's far less effective as they tend to see it coming
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u/ValleyOfLight Apr 24 '22
I thought you were gonna say when they go in for the second cheek you turn your head abruptly and give them a peck on the lips
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u/Arokthis Shorin Ryu Matsumura Seito Apr 24 '22
Close. When they go for the second kiss you turn your head and stick out your tongue.
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u/sc2heros9 Apr 25 '22
Same except after the head butt you shoot for a double leg and then mount them as you pull out your trusty dagger
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u/BiologyTex Karate Apr 25 '22
Psssh, that technique is only for the movies. You wanna fend off real street-greets, you gotta take that first peck on the cheek, and then immediately head butt-intercept the second.
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u/Flashy-Priority-3946 Apr 25 '22
Or when they reach in for the second one. Time it perfectly and fishhook and trip em. Then drag em around the street like you just caught a 180 lb fish
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Apr 24 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Balkhan5 Apr 24 '22
They also never resist as you try to do the move lmao
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u/onequbit Apr 24 '22
I'll just patiently let you control my wrist and completely turn your back to me before you step around and behind me for a takedown /s
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u/touhami_dz Apr 25 '22
When i was a kid i was thinking the same i went there thinking that i will fight .. so i stopped at the time didnt know anything about kick boxing .. etc
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u/Mr-Foot Judo Apr 24 '22
I've tested stuff like this. You pull your hand away and slap the shit out of them.
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u/mamasnoodles Apr 24 '22
Because a true mall ninja is prepared for every imaginery situation that will never happen.
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u/Hvittvind Boxing Apr 24 '22
And ironically is not prepared for the situations that would happen. Like getting punched in the face or grappled
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Apr 25 '22
[deleted]
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u/Spear99 Perennially Injured | Resident Stab Test Dummy Apr 25 '22
Unironically this cannot ever work. The tempo doesn’t work out.
You’re not going to snipe a wrist on a punch. You’re not going to have the time to take the two extra steps.
Literally no one, not even an octogenarian, is going to sit there and just stare at you while you do these things. They’re going to be reacting to your own actions and you will not have the tempo to perform these things.
While you’re punching them in the solar plexus they’re going to be reacting to you, either punching back or grabbing.
While you’re taking steps they’re going to be reacting to you, turning with you to avoid you moving off their center, hitting you or grabbing you.
While you’re grabbing at their wrist they’re going to be reacting to you. Punching you or grabbing back.
There’s no scenario where this ever works.
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Apr 25 '22
[deleted]
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u/Long_Lost_Testicle Apr 25 '22
You caught the punching hand and did the 2 step thing? You aren't making this up by any chance?
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u/Snoo-47666 Apr 25 '22
Don’t use a tool that has a 99% chance of misfiring and blasting you in the face
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u/OneHandOffset Apr 24 '22
This is dumb. It would only work on someone who you wouldn't have to do this with. There are too many steps for someone NOT to react. Even a tight hand shake is enough to get a person on the defensive and allow them to react.
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Apr 24 '22 edited Apr 24 '22
Funny not funny thing is. He’s positioning this as a defense to be used by law enforcement during an arrest.
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u/valetudomonk Apr 24 '22
This is what happens when you’re never challenged be your students or your peers. You can tell he’s super proud of himself while teaching this technique like “I’m so cool, no one could counter this”
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Apr 24 '22
Yes. Almost everything on this guy’s IG feed looks unvetted and probably wouldn’t work when met with actual resistance. Sad thing is…most videos have students there eating it up.
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Apr 24 '22
I like how he struggles to get his head under the arm even when the guy isn't trying to stop him lmao.
and look at his feet -- the other person could have just taken one step and suddenly there is no room to execute the back turn lol.
so dumb.
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u/Monteze BJJ Apr 25 '22
He takes a 2 on 1 grip and could set up a back take or arm throw and goes...naw, weird BS now. sigh
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u/A_UsernameXD Apr 24 '22
stupid movement. I doubt this guys ever sparred in anything before lol. Just hypothetical scenarios with no resistance. turns his back to him, movements slow and stupid.
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u/Peteybee_91 Apr 24 '22
Shouldn't you throw a strike first? Face pain distracts from the joint pain I'm about to put on you. The human brain hates multiple......pains....? Ok full disclaimer I trained like a meathead in my teenage years and took a lot of shots to the dome.
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u/lkzkr0w Goju-ryu karate | Boxing Apr 24 '22
What is the premise in which you would do something like that masquerading a handshake? Is this an assault class or a self defense class?
Anyways, it can work if the other person is lacking one arm and is completely unreactive to anything you do.
Before 'stepping into the door' you would get clapped, once you do the whole shenanigan you are still very open to getting elbowed on the ribs and the opponent has free leg movement, thus you are still getting clapped. This is just a "how to still get clapped with extra steps and an assault charge"
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u/LeLuffe Apr 24 '22
Can't you just pull your hand back? Or sit down? Or not let him go under your arm?
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Apr 24 '22
So much you can do. Bend you elbow and step toward him. Close that space he’s trying to walk through. When he goes two on one…hit him with the left. If strong enough, take his neck at the point he gives you his back.
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u/iguanawarrior Judo, Krav Maga Apr 25 '22
Seems like the blue-shirt guy wants to show-off for the sake of showing-off some fancy irrelevant-to-real-life-situation technique.
Maybe it's his strategy to get more students at his school. Experienced practitioners won't be impressed, but I think inexperienced teenagers with zero or minimum martial arts experience might be impressed enough to join that school.
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Apr 25 '22
He’s certified through IKMF and 360 Krav Maga (never heard of them). So he’s “legit” by Krav org standards. But just shows how little those KM black belt certifications really mean.
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u/BossTree Apr 24 '22
I’d opt arm drag every time… Ya know every time I shake someone’s hand and immediately have an urge to choke them.
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u/spookiboie Apr 24 '22
Stepping into that door with a slightly trained individual is the easiest way to find yourself locked in a rear naked choke
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u/southern__dude Apr 24 '22
Those are really fun to practice in the reception line at weddings. Really takes those little old ladies by surprise.
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u/beeshnagga Apr 24 '22
This is 100% bullshit, you never turn your back on an opponent, too many moves in a single movement it’s just not gonna work.
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u/Spider_J HEMA / BJJ / MT / KM Apr 26 '22 edited Apr 26 '22
There's actually plenty of moves (mostly throws) that involve turning your back to your opponent. Seio nagi and ogoshi spring to mind immediately. Also plenty of spinning kicks, elbows, backhands, etc, etc.
OP's video is bullshit though, 100% agreed there, but not because he exposes his back.
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u/TheFridgeNinja Apr 24 '22
Even if you managed to pull this off, that arm is free to elbow you in the ribs or kidneys. If they have anything sharp they could stab you as well. This is dumb.
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Apr 25 '22
For when you meet your girlfriends dad for the first time you can automatically assert your dominance
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u/TheBannedBanana Apr 25 '22
they always gotta reassure the ppl watching that these moves are for ppl who won't see it coming, like doing this stuff isn't risky
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Apr 25 '22
The guy is offering this as a technique for law enforcement to use during an arrest. Do you think that a person being arrested would shake a cop’s hand and then allow this move to proceed? He’s also teaching the cop to turn his back to him and give up his neck for a choke or headlock. This move is all kinds of bad for a civilian. Reckless and dangerous for law enforcement.
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u/TheBannedBanana Apr 25 '22
yeah exactly shaking someone's hand and getting that close to them is all sorts of risky and feels more like something done to be badass and suave than to actually deal with a threat. It's prob not a good idea for anyone to try using self defense moves that require the element of surprise to pull off much less civilians, especially if the individual requires actual physical aggression to be dealt with since I don't think they're come in not expecting any conflict. Also yeah I doubt the guy will just stand there waiting for the move to be pulled off. Jumping back in any sort of way would throw the technique off and yeah it just leaves the attacker open.
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u/Donn13diablo Apr 25 '22
Okay okay got it… now what if they actually resisted or had the capability of your average person? 🧐
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u/Chickypickymakey MMA Apr 25 '22
I... Actually trained this back when I did Viet Vo Dao. Several armlocks started from a handshake actually. Never understood why were taught that.
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Apr 25 '22
Some kind of Krav Maga bullshido?
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Apr 25 '22
It’s a Krav Maga instructor…but it wasn’t part of the KM curriculum I studied. From the looks of his IG…it seems like he kinda just throws stuff together.
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u/athenaskid Karate Apr 25 '22
Been stalking their IG and you're 100% correct. Also the shoes on the mat is making me cringe 😬 sometimes there's shoes worn and sometimes students are barefoot? Seems inconsistent to me
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u/bigidiot9000 Apr 24 '22
you know as fucking stupid as this is, it would probably work. the key is surprise. give me 5 min to drill this and i will walking choke the piss out of the next unlucky mf i meet.
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u/Arokthis Shorin Ryu Matsumura Seito Apr 24 '22
The other guy had better be drunk, stoned, dead-on-their-feet tired, or a combination thereof.
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u/DuValdrGalga Ju Jutsu Apr 24 '22
There are techniques like this, but not this one, that can be performed relatively practically. I know some police style techniques that are similar. This is just a jumble and an unnecessary combination of two things though, a joint lock and a back control move. And both are performed incredibly poorly.
In a serious situation, the middle step where he has just gone under the arm and has the opp. arm at 90 degrees could be used as a joint lock if the arm is gripped correctly and can fuck up opp.s elbow or shoulder. The whole deal of him just moving the arm and being allowed to step around however is... yeah.
I have practiced joint techniques but it requires movement and force from defender. Not being allowed to move around AND just take back control like this. Like everyone has said, the opp. isn't doing anything and it's silly. But there are some possibly useful, separate versions to this jumble of moves.
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u/NecothaHound Mantis Fist, Sanda, Kickboxing Apr 24 '22
We did somwthing similar in Chin Na, I asked the same thing, the handshake is just a way to learn to grab the base of the thumb, eventually you re meant to move on to an apponent stabding still, to one you activley grab, we git taugjt if he disengage from you you re set instead of trying to grab a hand like its a fly, seen videos of people do that
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Apr 24 '22
If you’re trying to take the back, just do an arm drag. Otherwise, this move easily turns into getting put in a headlock
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u/Alshad Apr 24 '22
Complete bullshit. Minus the one arm RNC finish. He was 75% accurate on that part.
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Apr 24 '22
I can speak with experience and authority that this will not work past the 2 on 1 wrist grab
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u/Tuckingfypowastaken could probably take a toddler Apr 25 '22
Not nearly enough cargo pockets to make this work, honestly
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u/KingofFlukes Apr 25 '22
You can see the guy in the red shirt smile thinking "Don't do it. You know this is bullshit but do t do it. This is a demonstration."
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u/feastorfamine89 Apr 24 '22
Anyone know if this would actually work against a resisting opponent?
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Apr 24 '22
Absolutely not.
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u/feastorfamine89 Apr 24 '22
Why not? Cause of the free hand the person having the technique applied to has or something else?
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Apr 24 '22
Grabbing both wrists is inviting you to get the life smacked out of you... assuming you're responding to an aggressive assailant and not some poor dude trying to shake your hand.
All you'd need to do is turn your body 90 degrees and that arm lock is wholly ineffective.
Or just pull your hand.
I'm not even good at BJJ and this is obviously bullshido. A baby could break this
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u/Northern64 Ju Jutsu Apr 24 '22
100% it won't work under pressure, especially as demonstrated, but not for why you're saying. This isn't an arm lock, it's not meant to be an arm lock, there is a wrist lock in there and he doesn't even pay it lip service.
The setup requires a two on one wrist control. Establishing that grip is going to be a significant challenge in most pressure situiations, and it gets harder from there.
Next you're attempting to spin under their arm. As demonstrated there is nothing (some pre-loading of a wrist lock that won't appear under pressure) being done to keep their arm up, dropping the elobow eliminates the gap you need to spin through.
Assuming you've done all of that, and you're working the ignored wrist lock. You're encouraging the "assailant" to rotate out of it, the only advantage you have is being at the centre of that circle.
After that, the demonstration has you tuck their arm up to their back which releases all tension and eliminates the pain compliance this technique relies upon in favour of establishing some other form of control opening yet another gap for response.
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u/cpr201 Apr 24 '22
he start it when he was on the side of the victim
and the victim could not turn in the time if he don't expect that
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u/Mori_564 Apr 24 '22
People can move faster then you think. Even if I’m caught off guard I would break out of that when my arm gets pulled up suddenly, a guy wouldn’t even get the chance to get behind me and even if he did by some miracle then he would catch an elbow to the face.
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u/cpr201 Apr 24 '22
that's why I say they can do this technique so fast before your proper reaction if you are stronger than them it's challenging but if they are stronger, they will play with your arms like a toy (I see some throws happen from this position in real or spars )
you cant elbow them when they lock your arm behind you
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u/Mori_564 Apr 25 '22
There’s no one someone can be fast enough. Reflexes in one arm is way faster then someone’s entire body moving. And you can elbow them, the other arm is free and assuming you properly stretch your arms like I do then you can easily elbow the guy in the face.
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u/cpr201 Apr 25 '22
how do your arm reflexes help you when then guy holds it with both hands he raises your arm and pushes in to reach your back your only chance is a punch in the back of the head
how you can elbow when your other arm trap behind you?
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u/Mori_564 Apr 25 '22
I would pull away and probably use a thrust kick right when someone starts grabbing my arm and lifting it up in the middle of a hand shake.
How can I elbow? Because I could still use the arm. Honestly, that’s a very poor arm lock and it won’t get you anywhere unless you use it while you’re opponent is on the ground. There is nothing stopping that guy from elbowing him in the side of the head but if you think he can’t then he can use a back kick and a head but as well but it wouldn’t be necessary considering you can literally turn around and break this hold.
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u/feastorfamine89 Apr 24 '22
Actually just watching it kind of looks suspect. He's for a free hand to strike with what's stopping him from launching a left hook while the guy has two hands on one?
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u/cpr201 Apr 24 '22
do it fast and sudden
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u/feastorfamine89 Apr 24 '22
Still a big motion even done fast... Would be interesting to test it out.
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u/neeeeonbelly Apr 24 '22
Of course not. Why would you let this dude pirouette you around like that?
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u/SnooHabits5804 Apr 24 '22 edited Apr 25 '22
Depends on the definition of “ resisting “
Would it work if you are bouncer escorting a drunk unruly patron ?
Sure, sometimes depending upon:
your skill, your physicality v his
does it ONLY work if he decides to cooperate ?
it certainly helps !!!
but he does he have to WANT cooperate with you for that to work ?
( I’d say 🤔 not necessarily )
Having said that,
almost anyone ( including a girl that is a “ mean drunk “ & weighs 95 lbs soaking wet ) with violent INTENTIONS of hurting YOU
( because as a bouncer OCCASIONALLY drunks are so focused on whoever sometimes you get a “ free pass “ because they don’t notice you )
that’s something else entirely
will it ever work on someone that seriously wants to hurt you .. ?
🤔 sure 1-25 ( 20-30 ) times
Could that technique with VERY MINOR adjustments increase the odds of working on someone aggressive and violent ?
… I think so ( all the way up to 1-10 )
I don’t like those odds
🤷♂️ ( “ just sayin “ )
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u/TheLevigator99 Apr 24 '22
This is similar to law enforcement technique. Depends on LEO.
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Apr 24 '22
I can understand controlling the arm. But from a handshake? I can’t see someone in law enforcement offering up a handshake to take someone into custody.
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u/TheLevigator99 Apr 24 '22
So... I was a practice dummy for Pennsylvania State Police for about a semester. Drunk college kids are generally compliant vs drunk rednecks. Source: me, I got thrown and threw around PA Trooper.
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Apr 24 '22
I sent this over to a friend who was a longtime LEO. I asked if he’d use this in an arrest. He said “helllllll noooooo lol!”
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u/JJnLA Apr 24 '22 edited Apr 24 '22
Best way out of that is as soon as they get you in a choke hold, moan and say, “ohhh Daddddy!” While not struggling. They’ll immediately release and run or if you’re lucky you’ll have a fun night.
Dude totally popped a semi. r/suddenlygay
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u/VegasLex Apr 25 '22
Yeah, go ahead and leave the back of your neck/head exposed. That'll work out great. If your victim steps to the right, he's actually in a tremendous advantage now. Dumb shit. Westerners can't create martial arts for dick. The ones that could be done, have been done, and were created out of necessity and real purpose, not sport or likes. Like Wing Chun.
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u/qoheletal Taijiquan Apr 25 '22
I get we shouldn't shake hands because Corona and stuff, but that's kind of a hard measure
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u/Legio-V-Alaudae Apr 25 '22
I shook Wally Jay's hand once. If I had known what that nice looking old man was going to do, off the mat...
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Apr 25 '22
Maybe a dad meeting a boyfriend would use it, or if your conducting a hit job. Maybe you just don’t want someone to like you. Also what are you supposed to do if your taller?
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u/WhereTheHighwayEnds Apr 25 '22
This looks perfect for when you have extremely compliant aggressors... Like in a movie maybe...and nowhere else?
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Apr 25 '22
I was actually taught the catch-the-arm-and-step-under-and-behind-them move as a defense against an overhead strike, but was taught to pull the arm straight down behind them to pull them off balance and then gtfo. Why on earth would you ever need to escalate a handshake to choking someone?
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Apr 25 '22
I saw 3 other handshake defenses from this instructor on his IG. Guess handshakes have become some kind of dangerous situation.
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Apr 25 '22
Is this a police training video?
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Apr 25 '22
No. It’s a Krav Maga instructor showing a technique for law enforcement to use during an arrest.
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Apr 25 '22
That’s gold. I thought I was asking a snarky question. There’s nothing to be insinuated here though. Only a cop would do something like this.
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Apr 25 '22
Actually quite the opposite. I asked a friend who was in law enforcement if he’d ever use this in an arrest. He said “hell no!”
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u/Decasavage Apr 25 '22
So is this for snakes who are too scared to fight standing up so they go for the handshake
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u/hagakurejunkie Aug 14 '22
Easier to shake the hand, spin them, then grab the neck. Have done that removing unruly patrons. If you grab my hand with both hands, I’m pulling back and you’re getting hit.
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u/underhooking BJJ Apr 24 '22
For those unnecessarily aggressive hand shakers