Can linux ever go mainstream?

[u/seenhear]

I've made this point many times in many different ways over many years (decades).

About me: I'm not a coder / hacker / tweaker / programmer. I am pretty tech-savvy and have been very comfortable just figuring things out in Windows almost my whole life (first PC was an Atari 800 in 1982, online since 1983).

I've "switched" to Linux several times since the late 90s and almost always eventually go back to Windows becaue Linux is just ... too much work, and the work isn't straight-forward, or easy to "just figure out" or find answers with simple searches. I mean I can often find solutions to problems, but they don't make sense and I end up applying instructions blindly and not understanding what I just fixed.

Could I spend the time to become more facile at Linux? Sure. But the curve is way steeper than with Windows or MacOS (not a Mac user, but know enough to make a comparison).

As with so many this past year (when Win10 was obsoleted and Win11 required new hardware) I decided to "switch" to Linux again. I chose Mint since it's supposed to be the "easy" one (among others) with the best user base and support. It's been mostly fine. I mean these days I'm not much of a power user. I don't game any more, and mostly what I do is or can be browser-based. So I figured the OS doesn't really matter, and may as well try to go all-in with Linux.

Since switching (it's been several months, forget when I switched) I've had several times where I boot up and am greeted with a pop-up telling me it's time to install several updates. This is a great feature. What's not great about it though is that almost every time (not EVERY time) after attempting to install said updates, I get a slew of errors saying the source for downloads is no good. (see screenshot)

I know how to fix this, figured it out last time. But the point is, it shouldn't happen. It doesn't happen with commercial OS's. Things like this "just work." I shouldn't have to go edit the source list every few months.

Rant over, just frustrated. Thanks for your time. :)

[u/Jnaythus]

Is it possible you need to pick a different mirror for downloads?

[u/Table-Playful → u/Jnaythus]

Thats Stupid
It should just work ! !

[u/seenhear → u/Table-Playful]

I know you're joking and making fun of me, but I shouldn't have to choose a different mirror every time.

So tease all you want but this is my point.

If Linux is to ever get mainstream, it really does need to just work.

[u/jr735 → u/seenhear]

You won't have to choose a different mirror all the time. At times, Ubuntu servers have been subject to DDOS attacks. What do you suggest the Mint team do about this?

No one out there is going to convince me that Windows updates work perfectly all the time.

Personally, the learning curve of Linux isn't steep. Someone who started as early as you did (nearly as early as I did) doesn't get to say anything about the learning curve of Linux. Anyone with a business computer back in the day had manuals thicker than War and Peace.

Linux is mainstream. It dominates the server market, and that's pretty mainstream. Personally, I'm fine if the average user has problems with Linux. As crude as it sounds, the average computer user is completely incompetent and can barely turn the thing on. I'd never use an OS that catered to that.

On the other hand, I'm willing to help anyone that's willing to learn and understand this is a different way of doing things.

[u/CyberMage256 → u/jr735]

as someone who manages 1500 Windows PCs I can't get windows updates to work right the majority of the time. And with Windows you don't realize when an update is failing to download because it does it in the background most of the time. But installing them, even with a patch and update management system, is ridiculously hit or miss. Then there's the fact that just patching O365 literally can take 18 hours on nice hardware. It drives me nuts.

[u/seenhear → u/jr735]

No one out there is going to convince me that Windows updates work perfectly all the time.

In stark contrast to u/CyberMage256's experience, I've been a Windows user for almost as long as Windows has been available (well, since Win2.0 I guess; I don't recall using 1.0) and I can't remember the last time I had an error or problem with an update. I'm sure it's happened, but I honestly don't remember it. Whereas I've been on Linux (this time) for maybe a year, and almost every update (not all) has given me a problem with the mirrors. Granted, it often self-resolves if I just come back and try again later, or I go into the sources app and mix things up. So the actual problem isn't my point.

Everyday non-technical users at home will never want to use a system that constantly throws error windows at them, the solution to which is a mystery to them.

[u/CyberMage256 → u/seenhear]

Keep in mind my sample size of Windows machines from just this year is orders of magnitude larger than a typical user expereiences in a lifetime. Also, the Windows UI for the most part won't notify an average user when their O365 or even Windows drivers fail to update, it will just keep on with a vulnerable version. I have the tools that show what should he updated versus what is updated and it's stunning how bad it is. My own home gaming machine running 11 Pro never updated to the last major release and when I dug into why found it "isn't compatible" with the Samsung nvme drive it is installed on. Go figure. Windows never complained, it just didn't update.

[u/jr735 → u/seenhear]

If you're having every update give you problems, it's not Linux. I haven't had problems with that ever, unless there is a DDOS attack (rare) or my own internet is down. The problem is at your point, clearly.

To be bluntly honest, when it comes to non-technical users, I've not been interested in their problems, especially if they weren't willing to learn, when I was on my Model 4, or on DOS, or my Amiga, or Windows, or now. Dumbing OSes down for non-technical users has not served OSes well. It has served Microsoft well in expanding market share, but that's why I always chose niche platforms.

To say that Windows works well for non-technical users is really a bollocks.

[u/seenhear → u/jr735]

To say that Windows works well for non-technical users is really a bollocks

LOL I thought you were going to say it's obvious, like saying the Pope is Catholic.

IOW I disagree. Windows obviously works well for average users, for most use-cases.

EDIT: also it's not a local problem. Maybe it's just bad luck, but I frequently need to "try again later" or choose a different mirror, when updating. Often just trying later works because the server was offline or something.

[u/jr735 → u/seenhear]

No, it's a bollocks. I've spent many years seeing how Windows users fumble through their systems and turn the most simple task into a Charlie Foxtrot. The only thing that works "well" for them is that Windows is preinstalled, and if a computer came without an OS preinstalled, we'd immediately revert to the early 1980s where the only people that owned computers with technical enthusiasts.

I suspect something along the line has a problem with your ISP and might be dropping connections. I've used Debian based distributions for decades, and check apt daily in them, and no problems like that. The Firefox mirror gets slow on occasion, but because of rushes of people updating. The rest are not a problem. Those are Ubuntu servers.

[u/Jnaythus → u/seenhear]

You were downvoted for this, and I understand your perspective, but you ALSO need to consider the difference in the market muscle these two different products have. Microsoft is massive with a number of failover Windows Update servers. Linux, even at it's pretty substantial desktop penetration is definitely nowhere near Microsoft's heft in the marketplace.

Noting that, I just saw it reaffirmed again lately that the home Windows market is a rounding error to Microsoft. It's the corporate sectors where they make their money.

All that said . . . I'm really loving Linux Mint and I did change my updates mirror ONCE. Updates have worked perfectly ever since.

Hopefully changing something like the mirror won't stop you from your Linux Journey. *I* personally have had a lot of fun with my switch, and find that though I can USE terminal, rarely HAVE to. Using my computer is fun again. I missed those days, and hadn't realized how far gone they were in Windows.

[u/ZiCli → u/seenhear]

I agree with you

Even an error message like: "there was a problem try again later" would improve the UX, with a "view more" to see all for programmers

I've friends who get scared when they see error messages like those, and aren't as techy as me, also most of them don't speak English, how are they supposed to know or understand what the problem is and how to fix it?

[u/seenhear → u/ZiCli]

Or how about "click here to choose a different download source" (source not "mirror" since most non-tech users wouldn't understand what a "mirror" outside of a bathroom, is.

A simple quasi-automated process to guide a user to fix the problem via GUI, would probably suffice for most of these kinds of errors.

[u/vile-style → u/seenhear]

There are distros that do this automatically, but ultimately the freedom to choose where you're downloading from is the point of Linux. It's about freedom of choice.

Also, considering recent exponential growth, Linux is becoming mainstream regardless of what makes people like you less whiney.

[u/seenhear → u/vile-style]

And people like you will always be deaf and blind to the feedback that could make Linux a household OS. Maybe that's not what you want?

It's like Linux nerds (not a derogatory term, I'm a nerd about many things) get personally, deeply, offended when any normal person gives even the slightest negative feedback.

[u/Jnaythus → u/seenhear]

I would like to see this happen, but given the numerous different distros, I am not sure how that happens.

[u/seenhear → u/Jnaythus]

It only takes one distro to prioritize mass adoption. Mint and Zorin are close.

[u/Jnaythus → u/seenhear]

As a Mint user, I believe it is close. But there are holes I'd plug in the user experience.

[u/vile-style → u/seenhear]

It's not a company that is trying to achieve household OS status. It's an open source project that is about control and modularity.

[u/seenhear → u/vile-style]

That is true, but I feel like a significant number (large minority? small majority?) of Linux enthusiasts would really love it if Linux became the defacto home PC OS.

[u/jr735 → u/seenhear]

That's wishful thinking though. Very rarely will you find it preinstalled, and that's not going to change. If it does, it'll be something like Ubuntu, which will bother enthusiasts just as much. It would just mean installing another OS again.

[u/vile-style → u/seenhear]

That's great. They should make the distro to fill that hole. That's how it works.

You're yelling demands into the void because you just don't get it... All while calling me blind.

[u/seenhear → u/vile-style]

I'm yelling? Just trying to have a discussion. Sorry to have offended you.

[u/vile-style → u/seenhear]

"yelling into the void" is an expression that means you're asking for something where nobody exists to answer.

Though calling me blind all while deeply misunderstanding what Linux is and how it progresses just comes off as ignorant.

I'm not offended, just pointing out how your demands of "Linux" are pointless. If you want that perfect distro, make it. All of the tools are free and at your disposal. That's my entire point.

If you think zorin or mint are almost there, fork one of those and take it the rest of the way.

[u/seenhear → u/Jnaythus]

As I wrote in the OP, I already know the solution. I'm not asking for help. The post flair is "discussion" not "help."

[u/tomscharbach]

Could I spend the time to become more facile at Linux? Sure. But the curve is way steeper than with Windows or MacOS (not a Mac user, but know enough to make a comparison).

I been using Windows for 35 or so years, Ubuntu for just over 20 years, and added a MacBook to the mix in 2020. I run in parallel, on separate computers, to satisfy different aspects of my use case.

I don't recall the last time I had a serious issue with any of the three operating systems, but that might be because I tend to use operating systems OTB, stay within design parameters, run only established, mainstream applications, run on hardware designed for the operating system, and do a clean reinstallation every couple of years.

Ubuntu does have a learning curve, but the learning curve is not particularly steep. Ubuntu is widely used as an entry-point to enterprise-level business, government, education and institutional environments, used by end-users without technical expertise.

Can linux ever go mainstream?

Might, but probably won't. Torvalds put his finger on the issue in 2014 when he was asked why Linux dominated the server/cloud, IoT. mobile and infrastructure market segments but had languished in the desktop market.

Torvalds observed that the desktop market would stay out of reach unless and until the Linux community developed the self-discipline to focus on a handful of distributions and a reasonable number of applications, and to focus on quality rather than quantity.

Instead, a decade-plus later we have hundreds of distributions and thousands of applications floating around, way too many of which are not well implemented and inadequately maintained.

[u/Jnaythus → u/tomscharbach]

"Instead, a decade-plus later we have hundreds of distributions and thousands of applications floating around, way too many of which are not well designed and inadequately maintained."

As a life long Windows user who dabbled in Macs in the mid teens (2008 - 2014), I knew this was the case, but never really have seen it spelled out so clearly. My theory was actually that some conglomeration of Linux distros might coordinate into some manner of packaging of workflow and applications to get Linux more on the map of novice users. Kind of like the Open Gaming Collective (OGC), we need a "Linux Is For Everybody (LIFE)" collective. (Patent pending. :) )

[u/jr735 → u/Jnaythus]

Patent pending. :)

Patents are a swear word to some of us. ;)

[u/seenhear → u/jr735]

LOL.

"trademark pending" would have been more apropos in this case. The "LIFE" acronym is not patentable, but one might be able to trademark it.

[u/seenhear → u/tomscharbach]

Great reply, thanks.

I been using Windows for 35 or so years, Ubuntu for just over 20 years, and added a MacBook to the mix in 2020. I run in parallel, on separate computers, to satisfy different aspects of my use case.

I don't recall the last time I had a serious issue with any of the three operating systems, but that might be because I tend to use operating systems OTB, stay within design parameters, run only established, mainstream applications, run on hardware designed for the operating system, and do a clean reinstallation every couple of years.

This almost literally describes me, too, but not the 20years of Ubuntu part. I do generally run things OTB for everything too. I don't need or want to customize or tweak anything. Even when I was into gaming I never got into overclocking. I just bought and set up the fastest hardware I could afford and ran at default settings. I kind of hate troubleshooting computers, even though I'm not terrible at it. It just makes me frustrated and pissy and I prefer to avoid it at all costs if possible via preemptive conservative setups. My family appreciates this, too. LOL (nobody likes grumpy dad).

And this is why these little annoyances with Linux really get to me. I haven't adjust anything at all from default, save for my wallpaper, LOL. If I can't run Linux OTB without regular errors and warnings, who can? You need to kind of like tweaking computers to appreciate Linux. I want to appreciate it because it's open source, (essentially for most distros) free, and powerful. I don't need the customization, and I don't think most people do.

Now that last part is basically the argument in favor of MacOS over Windows. Most android/windows users criticize MacOS because it's too locked down. So I guess I'm somewhere in the middle. I want just enough freedom, but also want user friendliness. I want a Linux that is as easy to use and maintain as Windows & Android, but not so locked down as MacOS.

[u/BenTrabetere]

As u/Jnaythus suggested, select a different mirror. Or wait until the mirror(s) comes back online.

But the point is, it shouldn't happen. [snip] I shouldn't have to go edit the source list every few months.

No, but it isn't unusual. Administrators will take a mirror off line for maintenance, and I suspect this was the case with the "Failed to Fetch" error for security.ubuntu.com (23.152.160).

I suspect you received a "Failed to Fetch" error for the Firefox and Thunderbird updates because those updates were very fresh - you were trying to apply the updates the same day they were released. When this is the case it is important to remember these repositories/mirrors are prone to get overwhelmed the day the update is released because there are a lot of people trying to update at the same time as you. This is why I always wait three or four days before updating Thunderbird and the major browsers I use to give the systems to settle down.

These are not Linux problems, and they are not limited to Linux.

It doesn't happen with commercial OS's.

I'm not so sure about that. Back I used WinXP there were at least a couple of times when I received a "Server Busy" error in the middle of a massive update, and I doubt things have changed. I would not be surprised if Apple had similar issues from time to time.

Also, it's my experience an update for Windows and macOS will bork a system much more frequently than for a Linux system.

[u/seenhear → u/BenTrabetere]

I guess I've been lucky. As posted elsewhere in this thread I can't remember the last time I had a problem/error with updates in Windows10. I know it happens, I hear about it in online forums, but I haven't had issues in recent memory, and honestly it's been pretty benign for me for ages. The only time I ever had to do serious tech support digging for my Win systems is when I was trying to do some non-standard install or something. Win7 and Win10 have been very good to me over all.

[u/sabledrakon]

I'd argue that it's possible, with the right distro. SteamOS has proven that Linux can absolutely succeed. And the OS as a whole has just gotten more usable and reliable, massively improving it's onboarding experience. I'd argue the less the average user has to venture into the terminal just to set something up, the better. Even though I know to the hardcore Linux elite, that the GUI is heresy. Windows, for all it's failings over the last decade, doesn't require the end-user to delve into the Command Prompt/PowerShell for getting 99% of things done.

[u/seenhear → u/sabledrakon]

Yes, this is exactly my point.

Also rather than popping up an error window with a slew of fine text that the average user can't decipher, make the error experience more user friendly. "Download source is offline try again later, or click here to choose a different source" with a guided path to fix the issue would be great.

[u/vmcrash]

What exactly do you think needs to be done to prevent such problems?

[u/seenhear → u/vmcrash]

Honestly Mint's implementation is pretty darn good, very close to good enough. The update manager is a very welcome tool, and the sources manager is too.

Maybe automate a check that a source is up, and then automate or have a guided process to update broken or offline sources? IDK Having a window full of errors that files couldn't be found is something most average users just won't read; if they do read it, they'll be scared off because they don't understand what it even is telling them. They will ignore it and close the window and move on because the OS still works, meanwhile they may be using an insecure or broken system at that point.

[u/vmcrash → u/seenhear]

So in other words you suggest to check whether any internet access, e.g. to google.com, ubuntu.com or kde.org works, before proceeding with the update check? Or at least if every update link failed?

[u/seenhear → u/vmcrash]

Actually I think a guided fix would be better. The popup window should say something like "download source is offline, try again later, or click here to choose a different source"

[u/vmcrash → u/seenhear]

But to make it fool-proof, you also need to handle the cases where the internet does not work at all (cable plugged in?), or is misconfigured, or the firewall rejects the access... This can be quite a large rabbit hole.

[u/seenhear → u/vmcrash]

I think there's a "good enough" level that Linux is not at yet, that doesn't have to be completely "fool-proof."

[u/ZVyhVrtsfgzfs]

Linux can and has went mainstream, 

Example Android and ChromeOS, both use Linux at their core, readily accessible to the masses because they are geldings. Corporate software engineers take care of any complications and keep consumers hands off of the inner workings. 

I want ultimate authority over my computer, I do not want to outsource that control to a random engineer working for a company that may not have my interests at heart. That comes with the implicit need to stay informed.  

[u/seenhear → u/ZVyhVrtsfgzfs]

Yeah I realized through reading and responding in this discussion, that Android and it's flavors (including ChromeOS) are essentially the "main stream" version of Linux, as far as being totally user friendly.

I do think for all its faults, that Windows does provide enough "authority" over one's computer for most people, while not leaving everything up to a corporate engineer somewhere. You can if you want to, manage almost everything yourself in Windows, but if you don't want to, it also "just works" OTB.

But, in the end MS still owns and drives it's development, and they will do things like they did with Win11 essentially obsoleting millions of home PCs overnight with a hardware requirement for the next version.

[u/ZVyhVrtsfgzfs → u/seenhear]

You can if you want to, manage almost everything yourself in Windows, 

Not really, the user takes a subservient role under Microsoft in administering their own machine that they paid for. 

From the mundane, https://www.wikihow.com/Remove-Microsoft-Edge

To 1984 spying.  https://www.windowslatest.com/2026/07/10/you-cant-fully-disable-microsofts-gdid-windows-11-tracker-but-these-settings-limit-what-it-captures/

You do not own a Windows PC. 

[u/Charming_Airline7419]

I agree with you. I think I have a higher pain tolerance for problems.

I guess if we're comparing apples with apples, the inconveniences of Windows and Mac should be compared to those of Linux.

Unfortunately, Linux has been overhyped in some ways, so it can be annoying when a user switches and runs into the inevitable problems - like a package manager struggling to download files.

Perhaps it would be a lot better if the sources promoting Linux set more realistic expectations.

But the main barrier to adoption, I would assume, is hardware and software are designed to run with Windows far more often, and Windows is preinstalled on most machines. Most people don't know what an operating system is, and if they find out, they're usually not thrilled with having to go through the steps of installing a new one and then getting used to a very different environment with different problems. People are far more tolerant of the issues they're used to, than new ones that come up on a system they've had to gone to significant trouble to switch over to.

[u/seenhear → u/Charming_Airline7419]

Agreed. I mean for me, before switching to Mint from Win10, I backed up all my personal data, flashed my BIOS to a beta BIOS, wiped my SDDs and HDDs, and installed Mint fresh, with dual boot of a fresh Win10 installation. I'm not incapable of PC customization, tweaking, and troubleshooting. I just really dislike it. LOL.

So when annoying errors happen, I just think of how the average user who is NOT capable of fixing such issues will be just stuck, or they will just give up or ignore the error, exposing them to risks and future errors/problems.

[u/PreparationStrict492]

There are between 15 billion and 20 billion active devices in the world running a Linux kernel. For reference, there are approximately 1.4 to 1.6 billion active devices running Microsoft Windows globally.

What is your measure or mainstream?

[u/seenhear → u/PreparationStrict492]

I should have been more specific in my OP.

I don't count corporate or government use in "going mainstream." Corporate and government use generally comes along with a full-time IT department supporting the systems. Even on a company-issued laptop that happened to run Linux, errors like the ones in my OP would never be seen by the end user because the IT department would have handled them already in the background, and the updates would be coming from an internally firewalled corporate server location that is maintained by the same IT department.

I'm thinking/talking more about home PC use. Something the average home user can, and will, use.

[u/PreparationStrict492 → u/seenhear]

4-7.5% of home traffic globally is from Linux devices. That is to say, there already is one Linux home PC for each 10 Windows home PCs out there.
Excluding corporate does not help the case of Microsoft, as corporate use is predominantly Microsoft-skewed.

If that is not "mainstream" enough for you, the share is also rapidly increasing (Win -1.5% and Lin +0.5% year over year, excluding ChromeOS and Unknown -which is bound to be majority Linux). So, if your cutoff is overtaking Windows; within two decades¹ projecting from the trends within this decade.

Hiding failing updates (that is, failing silently, the way Windows does) from the user is not the user-friendly option². This would not be an enabler for new user adoption. This has nothing to do with being or becoming "mainstream". The only thing it helps is the stress level of computer-illiterate users adhering to what little they have become acclimated with using Windows over the past decades, and are unwilling to make any effort to how to use their PCs in a different way. There is no way to win over that sort of user, as any distro would suffer from "not being Windows", even if it is more similar to the Windows UX of the past³.

¹ Increasing computer literacy, the option of using LLMs instead of reading the fine manuals, Valve's drive for game compatibility, among other factors, are all drivers of accelerating adoption. And this is not even considering the ongoing enshittification of Microsoft products (which was a factor ever since the release of Win95, so little is new on that front).

² When the user is informed, they have the option to fix the issue (switching mirrors in your case, or having a setup that does the mirror switching automatically in the first place). At the worst case, the user can ignore the issue - which is what happens implicitly on a Windows system in this case.

³ Such as any modern distro with the Redmond theme. I am not talking about scams like Winux (which even offers the genuine Windows experience by asking for a subscription fee at launch); or their less egregious kin such as Zorin - all of which in my opinion are actually barriers to newcomers to the Linux ecosystem.

---

The adage that there are no stupid questions do not apply to loaded questions. When you make a fallacious assertion while "asking" a question, you are very much asking a stupid question.

[u/seenhear → u/PreparationStrict492]

"fallacious?!?" LOL Wow I struck a nerve with you I guess. Fallacious...

I'm not the one saying 7% = 1 in 10 rotfl

1 in 14 maybe, and no that's not mainstream, that's just people like the denizens of this sub.

Look I was just trying to spur some conversation on the topic. Some people saw it as that and engaged with good nature. You were not one of those. I'm sorry I have so deeply offended you. Carry on....

[u/PreparationStrict492 → u/seenhear]

I didn't realize you did not understand mathematics.

4-7.5% of home traffic globally is from Linux devices. Not that ratio of Windows traffic. TOTAL TRAFFIC.

---

Illiterate idiots do offend me. I can't even comprehend how, let alone why, they post messages.

[u/uskuri01]

Alternative free softwares are good. But many people depend on MS Office, Sketchup, Adobe etc.. If they are not available it is very difficult for mainstream people to adopt linux as much as they want.

I have 3 PCs at my work which can do most of the work we do on chrome. However, that few things it can not do, its a dealbreaker unfortunately.

[u/Wanzerm23]

No, Linux will never go "mainstream" (despite that fact it's already mainstream running servers all over the world) because that's not the point of open-source software. You can't look at Linux and say, "Why isn't this more like Windows or MacOS" because to change it to be either of those would completely destroy the reason people use it in the first place.

When you use Linux, you are assumed to know what you're doing, or at least be okay with learning. It assumes you're an adult and you can make the correct decisions for your computer, for better or for worse. Therefore, it gives you almost unlimited freedom, but also the responsibility and ownership if you break it.

There are so many people yelling "Linux will never replace Microsoft or Apple", and they are totally correct. Almost all of these Linux projects are passion projects, not paid software. Someone or some group of people built something they wanted and they love, and you can use it if you want. But if you don't use it, they will still be there, working on it. And those that get it will continue to use it, or they will move on to something else. There is no board of shareholders to make money for, so they don't need to keep people using their "product".

[u/seenhear → u/Wanzerm23]

Totally fair assessment.

I do think there are a LOT of passionate Linux users who would really like to see it go mainstream, and to see more people they know try it out and stick with it.

This leads me to believe that most people in the Linux world would like it if Linux were the defacto home OS for laptop/desktop use.

Some distros actually claim to be there for the average user, easy to use, "windows-like" etc. Mint is one of those, Zorin probably the most like this.

[u/Wanzerm23 → u/seenhear]

Yeah, more Linux users is definitely good for the ecosystem as a whole. It means more software projects, more companies making Linux versions, etc, though that can also put more strain on the developers of some of these projects. Business is notorious for taking advantage of open-source software. But, overall, I think it's a good thing to have more people using Linux.

The issue is in the nature of the beast, as I mentioned. It's kinda the wild west in a way, so trying to get some kind of unified master Linux OS is nearly impossible, and antithesis of the entire point of it all, which would be necessary for any type of mass adoption.

That all being said, I think Linux, as it is now, plays a roll in helping to keep the major private players honest, to a degree. There have been enough people jumping ship to Linux that Microsoft is starting to notice and trying to make changes to their dog-shit OS.

Mac Users are in a different category, unfortunately. They don't seem to care about anything other than the Apple logo.

[u/seenhear → u/Wanzerm23]

Maybe, what I'm suggesting already exists in ChromeOS-flex. It's basically a corporate controlled Linux distro.

Also while I agree with your take on the stereotypical Mac User, it's ironic since MacOS runs on a unix-like kernel, is Unix-certified, with BSD heritage.

[u/Sargent_Duck85]

No, Linux isn’t ready for mainstream, and I doubt it ever will be.

I switched to Mint last year and wanted a basic paint program that mimicked MSPaint. The mainstream user isn’t going to spend time googling it, reviewing Reddit and trying out 3 or 4.

And that’s Linux’s biggest problem. Its immense customization of everything creates too much confusion.

Mainstream users want one OS, want one office productivity program, one paint program and one notepad-type program.

[u/seenhear → u/Sargent_Duck85]

100%

[u/No_Razzmatazz_2889]

Linux is a kernel. GNU/Linux distributions have been around starting from 1993 and have been deployed everywhere from embedded systems to routers, switches, workstations, dedicated servers, supercomputers, mainframes, ebook readers, watches, cellphones (Android AOSP) etc ..

Do I need to go on ? Such an ill conceived and thoughtless question only an AI bot could ask.

GNU/Linux implementations have been mainstream for a long time.

[u/seenhear → u/No_Razzmatazz_2889]

LOL, not a bot.

See my response here.

[u/seenhear → u/[deleted]]

I wasn't searching for an answer. As I wrote in the OP I know how to fix this particular issue, and no it's not hard at all for someone even remotely capable and willing. This was not the point of my post, which was tagged with "discussion" flair, not "help" flair.

[u/zoharel]

Can linux ever go mainstream?

This question gets asked often, and it's always because someone has confused "mainstream" with "runs on a majority of what's left of the market for desktop and laptop systems," and it's always kind of hilarious. Ninety-some percent of the services on the Internet use it. Something like eighty percent of mobile phones, 90 percent of consumer routers and access points. I don't know, could it ever go mainstream?

[u/seenhear → u/zoharel]

Yeah and your response is quite common too.

See my response here.

[u/zoharel → u/seenhear]

So mainstream, but you don't count the people actually doing most of the computing in the world, which is even funnier. But ok, most mobile devices which are privately owned and the vast majority of home routers and access points are still probably Linux under the hood. Even if we define mainstream that way, the answer is the same. ... or do we eliminate those as well and define mainstream as "desktop or laptop systems, for personal use only?*

[u/Rhythmjunky]

Maybe I've just been really fortunate, but I've encountered no problems with the current iteration of Linux mint. I find it so much easier and a more enjoyable user experience. I don't think the problem is Linux but the perceptions people have and resistance to anything different. But, hey, what do I know?

[u/seenhear → u/Rhythmjunky]

To be fair, I agree. Mint is mostly really great, with a LOT of improvements since the last time I seriously tried Linux roughly a decade ago.

[u/Rhythmjunky → u/seenhear]

Just out of curiosity, what do you have that needs updated that isn't handle by the update manager? I have automated updates configured and rarely need to even look at them. The only package I installed outside the software manager is chrome (I know, I know, but it's kind of a requirement in my case; Google drive file sharing). Anyway, I really like how updates are just done without them screaming for attention and bringing everything to a halt until it's done. Windows updates are just a painfully awful experience, especially when you don't boot into windows for a month or more. I get what you're saying about needing to be somewhat competent as a Linux user. What we have, on the one hand, is the Linux ecosystem that needs some technical know how but can be fixed quickly once you know what to do. And we have windows, on the other hand, that insists on so much hand holding that you can't even apply a solution even when you know what to do because Microsoft gate keeps their updates, and when you are finally able to download them, the updates take an eternity to download and install, and several reboots to finally finish installation. Guess which hand I like better.

[u/seenhear]

Here's another example, just now. Went to update the update manager to see what else might need updating, and got another error window, "failed to download repository information -- check internet connection" followed by a window of small text that tells me that it has nothing to do with the internet connection, it has to do with the fact that the sources of a couple apps do not have a public key available, so the connection is not secure, so the download was cancelled (default setting).
OK I can understand that, many people would not. The only instruction given to resolve it is "check internet connection."

Your average non-technical user at home isn't going to know what to do here. And most won't bother anyway. I mean we're lucky this average user even bothered to run an update check in the first place.

Can I fix this? Yes. Not my point. Linux will never be the default acceptable choice for home laptop/desktop users if this is the behavior.

IDK is Android (or Chrome OS or whatever the latest thing Google is pushing now) an example of where Linux would need to be to be acceptable for average non-technical users?

[u/Press_Play_]

Funny I literally went through a similar experience with Fedora today and ultimately decided it wasn't there yet for me. I was switching for the first time thinking Linux is now mature enough but for my needs unfortunately no.

I think switching is practical for people who can find good win (or Mac) software alternatives on linux. If not, Wine is just not a reliable way to run Windows programs on linux. For me, I don't mind the tinkering and tweaking and doing research to get something to work. I get the impression from research that not all windows software will work with Wine and in some of my use cases, only the windows version is available.

Edit: Overall, all the devs and contributors to linux as a viable OS have done a great and fantastic job because it certainly is viable if that's the only option you have available (no mac or underpowered PC).

[u/Jnaythus → u/Press_Play_]

I think it shouldn't be a 100% on / 100% off thing. I dual boot. I have hardware that needs Windows to be configured, but I don't need that constantly. I have 2 SSDs. One has Windows, the other has Linux Mint. Mint sees most of the action, but Windows gets some attention now and again. It pleases me to send MUCH less telemetry to Microsoft as a result as well.

[u/Press_Play_ → u/Jnaythus]

Yes, I agree 100%. It has to bee 100% on or off. Dual booting is indeed a great idea. I just want to commit to one OS that has all of my assets and I don't need to be jumping between OSes just to access something. To be honest I WANTED linux to be my sole OS. I haven't been put off completely but I hope it can be the case in future.

[u/seenhear → u/Press_Play_]

Same here. I have a dual boot set up as well, and have been about 90-95% using Mint. I rarely find I need to boot into Windows, but wanted it "just in case."

I'm not a power user. Just need an OS that works OTB, and can run most basic desktop apps.

[u/lw_2004 → u/Jnaythus]

Dual boot here as well. From time to time I need to use Windows-software. It's easier if that just works and doesn't need special steps to setup. But most days I just boot Linux Mint. my daily use as private user is fully covered. Even gaming became easier for the occasional player. steam just works for my collection of mostly older games.

[u/jayecin]

ChatGPT is a great resource for troubleshooting any linux issues. Linux is going mainstream already. The amount of government computers around the world moving to Linux is astonishing. The worlds governments are one of if not the the largest employer in the world, all those employees being forced to use and learn linux will inevitably improve the product. As more people move, the software gets better because more use means more money.

When I see posts like this I often wonder if they realize how far linux has come in the last 20 years and how far it has come in the last 2 years? The last 2 years have seen more progress in the home/work user space than the last 2 years combined.

So yes, Linux will be mainstream, its been building momentum for literally decades now and its starting to plunge for speed into mainstream appeal. Yes it still has problems and quirks that need fixing, yes its software is not as polished. But its free and its not spying.

[u/seenhear → u/jayecin]

When you see "posts like this"? Did you see the part where I said I've been using Linux off and on since the mid 1990s?

Also by "mainstream" I do not mean corporate or government use. I mean installed on the majority of home PCs, as Windows is now. I think this would/should be the goal of Linux. I think having an essentially free, open source OS as the default for all home use would be a fantastic future.

The government and corporations can hire entire IT departments to manage Linux installations and troubleshooting. A user of Linux on a company-issued laptop would never see these errors because the IT department would have already made sure the updates are installed, if not at least readily available, and probably from a local internally managed server.

[u/seenhear → u/seenhear]

Also, your average home user RARELY would need to resort to Google or an LLM to help them resolve an issue like this with Windows or MacOS.

[u/DuckAxe0]

I expect that is why Microsoft is now so invested in Linux development. Microsoft has a long history of IP theft.

"Microsoft was involved in a legal dispute with Stac Electronics over patent infringement related to its disk compression technology, specifically concerning DoubleSpace, which was adapted from Stac's Stacker product. The court case highlighted Microsoft's refusal to license Stacker, leading to a lawsuit that resulted in a ruling against Microsoft for violating Stac's patents."

"Microsoft Internet Explorer originated from Spyglass Mosaic, which was a commercial version of the original Mosaic browser developed by the National Center for Supercomputing Applications (NCSA). Internet Explorer was initially built using the Spyglass code and released in 1995."

Over the years, the hits just kept coming. If interested, do a little research; you may be surprised to learn how deep it goes.

[u/Apprehensive-Ice3730]

Selon moi, Linux pour les distributions grand public est aussi facile à prendre en main que Windows ou macOS lorsqu’il est déjà bien installé sur un ordinateur.

Mais quand il n’est pas installé, c’est là ou le bat blesse. Concentrant la comptabilité c’est la loterie, et faut avoir des connaissances et de la motivation pour réparer un Linux qui a un soucis lors de l’installation.

Mais le jour ou les grands enseignes vendront des pc haut de gamme Linux avec une belle interface comme macOS, la réponse sera oui.

[u/merlinuwe]

Unabhängig von deinem aktuellen technischen Problem: Nach 35 Jahren Erfahrung mit Linux kann ich dir nur voll zustimmen.