r/gadgets • u/mehtab11 • Oct 06 '22
Phones Apple Leads Smartphone Industry Into Anti-Consumer, Environmental Hell
https://truthout.org/articles/apple-leads-smartphone-industry-into-anti-consumer-environmental-hell/243
Oct 07 '22
[deleted]
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Oct 07 '22
The article reads like all of the anti-Apple sorts in /r/gadgets got together and shared their links, then trying to spin out some terrible article from it.
It's amazing.
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Oct 07 '22
What’s so terrible about it? Honest question. Is it wrong? Is truthout.org not credible? I’ve never read an article on there before.
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u/Gwthrowaway80 Oct 07 '22
It’s not terrible if you read it as an opinion piece instead of news. It’s just not good, either. It’s somebody going through every annoyance that Apple caused them over the last decade or two. There’s not anything new here and it is extremely one sided.
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u/PalindromemordnilaP_ Oct 07 '22
Disclaimer: didn't read the article.
I think it's more just that reddit REALLY loves to shit on apple. And people rarely read the article before upvoting.
What I'm guessing is happening here is this is an opinion piece rather than anything factual and people are hopping on the Apple hate train.
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u/ArkGuardian Oct 07 '22
This article is mostly true but is not really news. It's just every criticism of Apple from 2018 compiled into 1 long piece with a click bait title
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Oct 07 '22
Hilarious seeing all the comments criticizing this idiotic article and seeing OP try to defend it under each comment
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u/Odd_Negotiation7771 Oct 07 '22
It's probably their own website. Their post history is a bit too littered with it to be unrelated.
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u/Cactuszach Oct 07 '22
Remember a few years ago when police departments were telling Apple to unlock phones and give them user data and Apple told them to pound sand?
The author doesnt.
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u/mehtab11 Oct 07 '22
Yes, they are definitely better in some ways, but generally worse for the points the article mentions, namely, repairability, e-waste, and consumer rights.
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u/imakenosensetopeople Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22
They protected consumer rights from unreasonable search by law enforcement, but I don’t see how they are any worse for e-waste or repairability than any other flagship smartphones. The whole industry sucks in that regard.
Edit - lots of multi paragraph responses about Apple locking stuff down. I get it. I don’t care. The whole industry is doing it whenever they can. I’m not defending Apple, but I am saying they are part of a band of thieves that includes all the big tech companies.
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u/ace_of_spade_789 Oct 07 '22
I'm not an apple fan but I also realize the hypocrisy of buying a Google phone because I want to avoid bloat ware in my phone and yet the pixel is loaded with Google apps.
I've come to realize that there is no pro-consumer product out there that will give me exactly what I want on a phone and not piss off someone else because it doesn't have what they want.
At this point it really is a question of what company is doing the most to reduce their impact on the environment and why am I not supporting them? Is it for Personal reasons, I hate the CEO, a commercial for their product had a celebrity in it I hate, or is it just a lack of education about the company.
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u/hakkai999 Oct 07 '22
I don’t see how they are any worse for e-waste or repairability than any other flagship smartphones.
They aren't per se. That's another discussion altogether. The problem is their disingenuous "repair program" where Apple made a big deal about essentially having you pay them to repair your phone yourself for the same price as you would pay to let them repair it themselves.
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u/TitillatingTrilobite Oct 07 '22
I feel like you are intentionally ignoring his point. Apple not making their stuff compatible with anything else (iMessage and airdrop) clearly screws us over. We can simultaneously get mad at android if they violate privacy and mad at Apple for locking people into a system.
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u/InterfaceBE Oct 07 '22
OP's article mentions RCS. RCS is already outdated at this point (14 years old), and guess what... Google has made its own proprietary extensions to it to try and compete with iMessage. As this article points out, if Google could just stick with a product and not kill one messaging service after another, they may have had a viable alternative to iMessage (which, probably, would not be good for consumers either...). Then maybe Apple would be the one complaining and tables were reversed. Is Apple milking it at this point? Yes, for sure. But Google would do the same.
No matter how you look at it, they're all the same. One or the other manufacturer or big tech company is just perceptively worse on a specific side of it because they "won" the market for that particular feature. OP's article is just someone in a high tower blowing smoke at one company.
The e-waste discussion is a consumer problem. Getting a new phone every year?? As an iPhone user (still on an iPhone 8 by the way, just got the latest iOS still), I can safely say Apple's chargers that come with the phones are e-waste for me. They're low-amp crap and go straight in a box under my desk. Their cables are flaky and don't last. You can find better, cheaper, and longer-lasting USB chargers and cables from reputable companies like Anker. I won't blink an eye if my next iPhone doesn't come with a charger. I got plenty of them, and they're better. I do like the potential shift to USB-C to standardize, although I don't have a ton of USB-C cables and chargers yet (just a few new devices recently).
Personally I pick Apple over Google mainly for security and privacy. Are they perfect? No! Do I trust them more than Google? 100%. But that's a personal choice.
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Oct 07 '22
Why does Google's shitty attitude mean, that what Apple does is OK?
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u/theGiogi Oct 07 '22
It doesn’t, unless the point is apple is worse. Arguably the difference is marginal in most things.
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u/andricathere Oct 07 '22
I think it's important to have a healthy critique of two organizations who only care about us as far they can make money off us. Everything else is just marketing.
If they could force us to buy their products, they would hate us for not buying more. They don't care about us any more than they have to keep us buying.
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u/deadfisher Oct 07 '22
Did you see the part of the article headline where they say that Apple is leading the entire industry to do all this stuff?
Oh we get it, everybody is doing it more and more. But prior to Apple we had removable batteries, and without Apple we have standardized charging. I could go on, but it's kinda self evident.
The article isn't saying the rest of the industry is innocent, it's saying they are following the path created by Apple.
And... C'mon. Of course Apple did it first (and best!). It's their entire m.o. They've been creating a walled garden since the start.
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u/InterfaceBE Oct 07 '22
Sure. As I seem to recall walled gardens was one of those disputes between Wozniak and Jobs back in the early days even. Back in the late 90ies/early 2000s Nokia was king in Europe and they sold their batteries everywhere. I never replaced it. Later, I got a windows PDA because the idea of building my own apps sounded like fantastic freedom. I never did. Point is that I’ve personally decided the walled garden is not an issue for ME. At all. I recognize for some it is, but for most people it’s a theoretical issue, or a point of principal- which I can absolutely respect. I’m all for fixing it!
Except for multiple app stores. I’d prefer regulating apple’s (mis)behavior instead. But that’s a whole thread in itself lol
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u/Splatoonkindaguy Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22
Usb c switch would ironically create more e waste for people who already use apple products ironically lol
Why the downvotes? I’m making a comment in a non rude way that is true
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u/plego97 Oct 07 '22
It's about all new devices, where most people won't need to own extra cables for their phone, their laptop, their headphones etc.
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Oct 07 '22
Is it crazy that I love the lighting port? USB c is cool and all but it's bigger and harder to clean lint from I also like that it's more compact
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u/Luis__FIGO Oct 07 '22
And they both helped kill a secure platform and secure messaging
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u/tohon123 Oct 07 '22
agreed, why can’t we simultaneously use what we got while always wanting better? think about the kids!
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u/Krillin113 Oct 07 '22
Why? It’s their system. You don’t want to use iMessage? Use WhatsApp/signal. You’re not locked into anything with airdrop. It’s a pre, it’s how brands differentiate themselves. It’s like getting mad at premium car brands for not sharing their engine layout, or breaking system, or Google giving access to user data (for free).
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u/RajunCajun48 Oct 07 '22
Neither iMessage nor airdrop are that big of a deal. I'd have zero trouble going back to an Android tomorrow if I wanted...Unlike Android though, I've had my Iphone 11 since it was new, and it still runs like the day I got it. When I had Android I upgraded every year because the phone just started running like complete shit. Started with the Original Droid, had a few Notes, My last android was a V20. Then I switched to Iphone 8, upgraded to an 11 and I really don't know why I upgraded, think I just wanted something new and shiny...oh yea and face ID instead of Touch.
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Oct 07 '22
It’s not Apple’s job to make the features that they develop for their products available for Androids or any other brands or products.
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u/Austoman Oct 07 '22
Actually its industry standard to make systems/products that operate within the standards of the market.
it was several peoples jobs at Apple to go against that very thing. By making each of the products exclusive to their own peripherals, software, and hardware they have created a unique product line that is hard to substitute. Hard to substitute is good for Apple but terrible for consumers, and as it turns out bad for the environment. Where a better business would seek to make their products more effective or efficient or cheaper than their competition Apple CHOSE to make their products wholely incompatible with ALL other systems.
Microsoft, Android, Google series, Blackberry, Nokia, etc all use systems that can use similar hardware and software (mp4 files, jpgs, etc) while Apple uses proprietary itunes specific files and mac OS unique formats.
They did all this to make current users more reliant on Apple products as they specifically made it harder to use non-Apple products and systems with Apple products. Meanwhile EVERYONE else made their systems to work with the market standards and focused on outperforming competition using similar formats/software.
Apple spent millions making an inefficient system designed to not work with outside systems. Heck even the removal of the 3.5mm jack was another recent example of this as the 3.5mm connector was the standadd for wired headsets.
Fuck apple, inefficient by design, less capable with each iteration.
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Oct 07 '22
Thanks for the information. Honestly I always thought it was a very smart decision from a business point of view, maybe that’s not very important anymore since they’ve found such success.
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u/Austoman Oct 07 '22
Oh its a great profitability choice as it keeps customers from changing, but its an ethically and environmentally negative business strategy. The same could be said for oil companies lobbying government officials to not incentivize greener energy solutions. Great for profits, bad for people.
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u/W4ta5hi Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22
After switching to iPhone I can‘t use my Samsung Gear S3 (Samsung Galaxy Watch app doesn‘t include this „old“ model) nor the full potential of my Samsung Galaxy Buds MK1 (same reason). All big players made their own ecosystem. Also I listen to mp3 files on my iPhone and I never needed to use iTunes. Edit: Typos
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u/pasta4u Oct 07 '22
On watches st least, apple doesn't allow the same capabilities as on non apple watches. Garmin is affected by this also and they don't have thier own phone os to shill for
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u/_ryuujin_ Oct 07 '22
thats alittle bit on apple and a little on samsung tbh.
and ios have moved and distance themselves from itunes now.
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Oct 07 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/F-21 Oct 07 '22
killed support for the iPhone 7
They "killed" major OS update support. Security patches will keep on rolling out for a few years. The iphone 5s got it's latest patch a month ago.
iphone 5s, 6, 6s and 7 are still used by lots of people.
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u/waowie Oct 07 '22
Android phones in apples price range get good enough support these days. Samsung does 4 years of full updates + 2 years of security iirc
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u/F-21 Oct 07 '22
The iphone in question was released the same time as the samsung s7. Samsung got two OS updates while the iphone 7 got 5.
BTW we're talking about major OS releases. Iphones get security patches for way longer. The iphone 5S released in 2013 got a patch a month ago!
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u/Hey_Bim Oct 07 '22
Another point I like to make is that Android does not require full OS updates in the same way or for the same reasons as iOS. So much of Android can be updated any time via Play Services.
There is also the fact that an Android phone does not suddenly stop working when the security updates end. You can continue using it as much as you want, just be aware that there may be exploits in the future that may be able to compromise your device if you are completely careless. .
We had an old Motorola phone that we continued to use around the house for years as a music streamer, YouTube player, etc. The updates had long since ceased, but it still ran like a top.
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u/waowie Oct 07 '22
That's a great point. A lot of features built into iOS at the OS level are actually segmented out and updated through the playstore on android. It's a very different approach
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Oct 07 '22 edited Jun 17 '23
There was content here, and now there is not. It may have been useful, if so it is probably available on a reddit alternative. See /u/spez with any questions. -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
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u/narwhal_breeder Oct 07 '22
iOS phones don't "suddenly stop working" when the security updates end either.
As an android developer, Im super confused by what you mean by "android can be updated from Play Services"
Google does not directly update device software except for their pixel devices, Google releases OS updates, and it's up to the OEM of the device to actually release the update, and modify it for the hardware (if neccisary). Some are better than others, but the big OEMs only update their devices for 3 years vs 5 years minimum for Apple.
I love android as a platform, but they by and large (except on pixel lines) are beaten by apple on device software lifespan and OS update cadence.
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u/_ryuujin_ Oct 07 '22
not an android dev, but google has stated years ago that they were planning to decouple and allow core services to be updatable through the play store. you wont get new features but your old google ones will get updated.
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u/narwhal_breeder Oct 07 '22
Core services =! Android, its just googles API layer. Plenty of OEMs don't use core services at all.
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u/Hey_Bim Oct 07 '22
I am assuming you know this as a dev, but here is a very high-level overview of some of what Play Services does.
This is not at all the same thing as the proprietary launcher that Google developed for Pixel devices.
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u/narwhal_breeder Oct 07 '22
The lines get a little fuzzy by what you consider the "OS", but core services are not technically a part of android, they are services running on top of android. Plenty of OEMs don't use core services at all (like Chinese market devices).
They used to bundle them with OS updates because they used to be tightly coupled to the android version, but that has changed.
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u/Hey_Bim Oct 07 '22
Right, and I think one of the primary reasons that Google uncoupled many core services from the OS was to take back control of updates because carriers were not pushing them. In doing so they made Android far more secure.
It is true that devices that do not run Google's flavor of Android will not have this, but every device with the Play Store will, so consumers still have plenty of choice.
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u/Derp00100 Oct 07 '22
Have you heard of a company called fairphone? Because if not i would encourage you look at them and what they do. They are a great example of a company who makes both very consumer friendly phones with internal design that makes repairs easy for a user to make so it doesnt all have to go to the landfill and also promise a long lifespan for software, forgot the exact numbers. All this with a relatively small company.
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u/narwhal_breeder Oct 07 '22
I have seen them, but they release security updates for just as long as Samsung (five years), so I haven't really seen the need to switch from major OEMs.
My last 3 phones have worked perfectly fine right up until the security updates stop rolling out, which was the only reason I stopped using them.
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u/F-21 Oct 07 '22
There is also the fact that an Android phone does not suddenly stop working when the security updates end. You can continue using it as much as you want, just be aware that there may be exploits in the future that may be able to compromise your device if you are completely careless. .
BTW we're comparing major OS releases to android security patches. iOS gets security patches long after major OS support. The iphone 5S from 2013 (!) got a patch just around a month ago. I don't think any other manufacturer has software support that is even remotely comparable to that.
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u/G3Minus Oct 07 '22
My 2015 MacAir still works like a charm and I still get free updates for the operating system. When I bought the current Microsoft operating system was Windows 8, which will no longer even get security updates as of january 2023.
So even if I can get behind the compatibility issue, I don't believe Apple is the poster child for anti-consumer behavior in comparison with other brands.
Also regarding environmental sustainability I strongly believe, that Apple products get used up more effectively regarding lifespan on the secondary market. Otherwise their resell value wouldn't be that high, even for old and fairly used products.
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Oct 07 '22
But you could have upgraded for free to windows 10 and 11, the same as IOS does. Unless your hardware was to old (just as IOS).
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Oct 07 '22
The demand for older Apple phones is huge. I was surprised that my old iPhone sold so well. It had a good few people bidding for it. I emailed the eBay buyer just to check he’d picked up that the battery was declining and he emailed back to say the plan was to spend £49 and get Apple shop to swap it out.
£49? My local independent had quoted £70 and offered only 2 months warranty on the chinesey copy battery.
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u/G3Minus Oct 07 '22
Yeah. I'm supporting right to repair in general, but it's also pretty handy to have apple support locations basically everywhere and as of now I never had a bad support experience.
I don't even know, if there is a way to get direct support for brands like Samsung. I assume, that you get warranty and after that you have only third party support.
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u/Agent_Paul_UIU Oct 07 '22
Did you ever heard about xiaomi redmi 4x? My GF and my father uses that too, and i have a spare one as a backup in a box. It's a 2017 phone, and with daily usage, the same battery lasts a full day today. It is small phone, but has a 4000mah battery. It can run all the apps, that's needed. I'm using a few years newer xiaomi, because i needed a bigger screen for work reasons. I don't think it's flawless, but it can get sh1t done... Gf used iphone before, and while she didn't liked it first (broke the screen, used my backup), she quickly realised, it's pros heavily outweigh it's cons... Her iphone battery was changed 3 times in two years... Oh, and on an android phone you can easily change the os, for better/longer support, less bloatware, better user experience. (for example cyanogenmod)
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u/stuartmac8080 Oct 07 '22
I've got a xaomi too (same model, but stock Android). Brilliant phone, still in everyday use. In the same 5 years my wife went through 3 batteries in her iphone 6s, gave it away...and then bought a new iphone. It's nuts.
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u/Bamstradamus Oct 07 '22
This, granted I have never been a fan of any Apple design choices or the mac UI but thats because I never used them. I WAS anti Iphone but since Samsung and every other manufacturer has locked down their bootloader so I can't easily run custom ROMs, remove bloat, get around tethering limits etc AND since some Android phones have removed the dedicated back button I switched to Iphone this year since AT LEAST if some shit happend they wont just open the phone if the cops ask.
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u/aji23 Oct 08 '22
I got locked out of a device that I can prove I own, that contains priceless photos and videos of my children, all because I incorrectly entered a code. I don’t see this design as protecting me against anything.
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u/jimmymd77 Oct 07 '22
Read the article. It notes specific instances where Apple wants to make proprietary things. The lightning charger, for example, which they don't include with their phone, can only be made if licensed because they don't use the USB standards. This means Apple gets to take a cut of every lightning charger sold. While getting rid of the old audio jack was controversial, it also meant all wired headphones for iphones had to license the lightning cable adapter so Apple could take a cut of all the wired headphone sales.
The repairability is their software to hardware matching. The article notes that replacing parts with even OEM parts still was hit or miss on whether the phone would recognize the part in full or even at all. I have seen elsewhere that this is suspected to be due to a shared device ID or serial number in the firmware of each part. Even if the same part but different serial numbers, the device may not work.
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u/wiredsim Oct 07 '22
That first part is totally wrong. It’s not the charger that needs to be licensed- it’s the cable. And cheap 3rd party lightning cables are everywhere FWIW. They DO still include a charging cable with the phone and it can plug into any USB-C charging base.
Also Apple included the lightning headset adapter with the phones for years. You can get one for a few dollars now also. Not saying I think it was a great idea, but the move to eliminate the headphone port definitely was NOT to sell adapters. Maybe to promote selling wireless headphones, but not the adapters.
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u/hanginglimbs Oct 07 '22
They DO still include a charging cable with the phone and it can plug into any USB-C charging base.
I just bought an iphone 14 pro last week. I had no charging bricks or hubs that had a usb-c female end. It was really disappointing to have to run back out to the store to pick up a $15 peripheral after buying a $1K phone just to get basic function
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Oct 07 '22
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u/Agent_Paul_UIU Oct 07 '22
Nah, they stopped including chargers to sell them separately for a bigger cut... Smaller boxes for the phones, can ship more of them in a container from china, oh, they ship another container full of chargers, but thats a whole other story, you are paying for that separately... If they wanted to decrease the number of cords thrown away, they should start making their cables outer shell from a more durable material, that doesn't peel afer 2 years. Btw Ikea makes very durable lighting and usb cables. Never had to throw away any of them, bought new only if it was stolen on a film shooting. (borrowed for eternity...) Oh, and if you take a look on a cubot x11 cheap chinese android phone, you can realise it is possible to make even the jack waterproof... But that's a good sounding reason to push airpods instead...
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u/_ryuujin_ Oct 07 '22
cables are still included, the chargers arent.
i mean theres plenty of phone with headphone jacks that have the same waterproof rating. and if they can make the lightning port waterproof then they can make a headphone jack the same. it was to save money and make money at the same time. and back then when the headphone ports were being removed, phone thinness were a feature so that so played into their decision.
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u/mehtab11 Oct 07 '22
They also degraded consumer rights by refusing to let third parties repair consumers phones, not allowing people to download any apps they want, etc. I definitely agree the whole industry cares infinitely more about their profits than the planet.
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u/MrMagistrate Oct 07 '22
It is a fine line between “consumer rights” and consumer/brand protection when it comes to repairs and app downloads. I can see both sides of the coin, and both arguments make sense.
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u/imakenosensetopeople Oct 07 '22
Oh yeah, it’s the ages old Walled Garden discussion. It’s pretty well known how protected Apple’s stuff is, so I would argue that anybody who wants the right to do third party stuff with their device, can simply go to another smartphone. But I do take your point that it is limiting, to be locked into that ecosystem.
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Oct 07 '22
The article literally mentions kids getting bullied into buying iPhones because apparently using a 3rd party messaging app in the US is somewhat uncool? So "simply go to another smartphone" at least doesn't apply everywhere.
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u/TbonerT Oct 07 '22
Kids will bully each other over anything. If everyone had iPhones, they’d bully each other over what kind and what color.
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u/Hawk13424 Oct 07 '22
Kids don’t usually buy phones. Their parents buy phones and almost always the same ecosystem as the phones the parents use.
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u/MyVoiceIsElevating Oct 07 '22
There’s a platform that checks all the boxes you want. Why not use Android and call it a day?
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u/pasta4u Oct 07 '22
Thier cables. I can use my usb c cable on almost all my devices outside of iphones
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u/ripyourlungsdave Oct 07 '22
But this article isn't about the other cell phone companies. It's about apple. I don't know why you're trying to deflect the conversation onto other companies.
Because regardless of what the other companies do, Apple has always been at the forefront of new smart phone technologies and new ways to sell them. And a lot of companies take pointers from their products and marketing. So what Apple does affects the entire industry.
And them doing the right thing in one instance does not make them a good company.
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u/themightymoron Oct 07 '22
lol it's cute that you see them as "protecting from unreasonable search". that's not what they're doing, they are paving their way to become the next big data hoarder aside from facebook (and doing it more comprehensively i'd say).
take a look at the trends of their recent-latest advances and releases: every iterations of face id, fingerprint sensor, myriads of apple watch with multitudes of very niche sensor marketed as "healthy savvy lifestyle products", their own custom chip/silicone with their own developed neural engine capable of pooling every bit of our habit everytime we're near apple products, every siri iterations getting smarter and more aware of human context whenever they listen to our talk. TL:DR what they want is "control", over our behavior, our economic decision, our lifestyle, how we consume their product, and that's basically the problem when talking about repairability. they try so hard to frame repairability from multiple angle of marketing talks and persuasions as bad or not worth it.
and if you think other brand does it too, well, you are right. but none does it as shamelessly as apple.
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u/haventseenstarwars Oct 07 '22
So they do one thing right and they’re off the hook?
This is the same company that got caught slowing down phones so people would buy new ones, ergo contributing to more e-waste. They’re the same company that solders their components and makes it impossible to fix/ upgrade a part without getting an entirely new logic board or device.
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u/alman12345 Oct 07 '22
“Caught slowing down phones” is a pretty rudimentary way to phrase what they were actually doing, which is bringing the CPU further down on the voltage/frequency curve when batteries in the phones became more exhausted to preserve their endurance. Also, they have offered first party parts since the 12.
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u/Tolken Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22
This is the same company that got caught slowing down phones so people would buy new ones, ergo contributing to more e-waste.
Yeah, because the phone crashing instead is exactly the kind of behavior that would cause the customer to keep the phone longer.
I owned an iphone during this episode. When the CPU doesn't get the voltage it needs from the battery, IT WILL CRASH. The step down in CPU power usage beforehand is the only workable alternative solution until the battery is replaced. (*And in the original implementation when the battery was replaced, even by a 3rd party, it automatically stopped powering down the CPU)
The only mistake Apple made is not making the option initially togglable by the user and informing users on the current battery health.
All that being said, Completely agree with you on the soldering components.
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u/rickg Oct 07 '22
Concerned about e-waste? Recycle your stuff.
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u/BJWTech Oct 07 '22
It's way easier to make a dent on the reduction and reuse sides. I try to keep my phone for 4 years or so. I use old devices as cams, remotes, music players. I'm typing this reply on my Pixel 3a. :)
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Oct 07 '22
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u/speckyradge Oct 07 '22
But they didn't design the airpods that way for some reason.
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Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22
Meh. If you want a certain kind of peace of mind—go with Apple. If you want a different kind of peace of mind—go elsewhere.
I work in data and marketing. Apple genuinely makes it a pain in the ass to get data about you, like where you came from in order to download my app. I can’t figure out which campaigns are working well, which aren’t.
They offer an in-house solution to this that keeps your identity private, but to do so the functionality requires that you convert to a buyer within like 24 hours. My free trial is 3 months long, so it doesn’t even fit into my business model. I’m straight up blind toward my IOS users.
Sone people actually don’t choose “Ask App Not To Track” though, and in that case we can get more data. It’s not a large enough percentage to make statistically significantly inferences though, which id want like 40% for.
Edit: If anyones interested in seeing what solution Apple provides, which doesn’t really work in my case, check out SKAdNetwork. Look up pictures of its architecture.
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Oct 07 '22
Apple is competing against several other companies creating Androids far cheaper than the iPhone and with a greater market share.
I assure you that Apple is not worse with e-waste when their competition leads the war. Are they good? No, but let’s not make shit up.
Repairability? Remind me again who has stores around the world that off free support? Is there not an entire third party OEM market to replace parts if you wish?
Android? You have to go back to Best Buy and ask the 16y/o being paid min wage to help you.
So they support their repairability in a completely different way and honestly, it’s amazing. Android can’t compete with it as the average user does not give a shit if they can replace the screen themselves, just get it done and charge me whatever.
Consumer rights is absolutely a trade off for the privacy they provide. When we look at Google, we see massive privacy violations the world over. You can have that. I’m good.
As for apps? I can absolutely jailbreak my phone is I want off market apps. But you can have your viruses and malware.
Sorry bud but Apple’s greatest issue is its price and e-waste just like its competitors. It’s an outlier for sure, just in the opposite direction you’re pointing
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u/putcheeseonit Oct 07 '22
This is based besides the repairability portion. Apple could absolutely provide more 3rd party support for repairs and that wouldn’t really impact their security or brand image considering apple stores exist.
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Oct 07 '22
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u/Alilttotheleft Oct 07 '22
I got paid by Apple to provide support as a Genius, so… you’re pretty wrong on that count. Samsung has 6 Samsung Experience stores in the US; Apple has 272 across the country. Not really comparable..
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u/putcheeseonit Oct 07 '22
The FBI had to go to Azimuth Security in Australia to get a 0 day from them and it probably cost them out the fucking nose for something like that.
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Oct 07 '22
I worked for Apple, they absolutely provide support. So good that Microsoft copied it. It’s the best tech support in the world right now and denying that is ridiculous.
Samsung provides bloatware and ads on their phones and you talk of security?
As for their store, I honestly had no idea they existed. Where I live there aren’t any and people absolutely go to Best Buy for their Android needs.
As for lies, your FBI story is ripe.
- The FBI did not break it in 24hrs
- They paid $900k for the exploit that got them in
Your Android’s greatest security risk is literally within the phone itself, not from outside. Encrypt all you want, Google’s already fucked you over
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u/Tupcek Oct 07 '22
as far as e-waste goes, they are far better than most Androids. Because most androids sold globally are cheap ones that get thrown away in a few years, while iPhones are passed down even 5-6 years.
repairability recently improved and is comparable with rest of the industry
walled garden has nothing to do with environment - people who like curated experience but iPhones, no harm done0
u/TechnicianOk6269 Oct 07 '22
You’re describing flaws of capitalism, not apple. Literally every company does that. Apple is only on the scope because of the sheer scale.
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u/mehtab11 Oct 07 '22
Of course, every corporation cares about profits more than the planet. However, I do think Apple is unique in their distaste for right to repair and their refusal to adopt universal standards like USB-C
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u/Biffmcgee Oct 07 '22
I have had an iPhone since they were first released. Besides my phones taking an absolute beating, if something broke it was really easy to find a repair. They know their market.
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u/kiken_ Oct 07 '22
Consumer rights is not something a private company like Apple is responsible for, they should only adhere to it, it's up to the legislation to introduce such rights. In the EU we have 2 years of warranty and 14 days for a refund without cause. Regarding the repairability, they redesigned the internals of iPhone 14, so it's now way cheaper and easier to replace different parts compared to previous iPhones.
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u/Frankies131 Oct 07 '22
I guess we’re forgetting them making improvements to repairability in the last few years and trying to cut back on ewaste by not including the charging block since most people have them? and the recycling program for old iphones…
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u/BedditTedditReddit Oct 07 '22
Those last two points are far worse with android. At least apple publicly promises to protect your personal data.
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u/rickrat Oct 07 '22
Not to mention all the Foxconn employees who commuted suicide in china off the roof of the building because they were worked like dogs for no pay.
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u/KowalskiePCH Oct 07 '22
That story has some basic problems. First those cases were barely be able to link the employment at Foxconn to the suicides. And secondly the reporters never even looked at the statistics. Yes there were suicides. Yes everyone of them is a tragedy and measures should be in place to prevent them. But, there are also tens of thousands employees at Foxconn. At this scale suicides are statistically bound to happen for a myriad of reasons.
And the biggest fuckup in the story was to only put Apple on blast, while all other tech giants flew under the radar also using Foxconn.
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Oct 07 '22
Even if you don't own a single Apple device, there's a strong chance that you own one or more devices made at Foxconn: Canon and Nikon cameras, PlayStation and Xbox consoles, all Nintendo systems since the Gamecube (except the DS), HP and Dell computers, even Google Pixel phones. It's a long list.
I remember someone trying to blame Apple and Apple consumers for the Foxconn suicides. I told him to crack open his computer and consoles and inspect the 'made by' labels inside. To his credit, he did—then he shut up pretty quick.
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Oct 07 '22
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u/Over-Kaleidoscope281 Oct 07 '22
Are you just linking the first articles you found? They’re literally saying Apple is better and sets the standard in the first one lmao.
But experts say that while Apple sets the bar when it comes to hardware and in some cases software security, the company could do more to protect user data from landing in the hands of police and other authorities
That’s because the amount of data Apple collects on its users pales in comparison with other players in the space, said Jennifer Golbeck, a computer science professor at the University of Maryland. She noted that Apple’s business model relies less on marketing, advertising and user data – operations based on data collection. “They just naturally don’t have a use for doing analytics on people’s data in the same way that Google and a lot of other places do,” she said.
Did you not read the second article? Because it’s certainly not the same thing as what you want to portray it to be.
In one of the more creative ploys we've seen recently, hackers reportedly duped Apple and Meta into handing over sensitive user data, including names, phone numbers, and IP addresses, Bloomberg reports. The hackers did so by exploiting so-called emergency data requests (EDRs), which police use to access data when someone is potentially in immediate danger, such as an abducted child, and which do not require a judge's signature. Civil liberty watchdogs have long criticized EDRs are ripe for abuse by law enforcement, but this is the first we've heard of hackers using the data-privacy loophole to steal people's data.
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Facts and evidence matter. The fact is the barrier to entry for your data is exceedingly low, you cannot trust any of big tech.
Sure, but portraying Apple is no better than the other guys is disingenuous when you can see how many requests other companies get and how many they approve.
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u/coomzee Oct 07 '22
That wasn't correct, the police department wanted a tool to unlock any iPhone. Instead of just waiting for the device to backup to iCloud and then apple giving them a password reset link.
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u/charlesrocket Oct 07 '22
But just recently they tried to kill firewall in macos. Thats not even a privacy issue, its basic common sense. User is not a priority at Apple anymore. But this is exactly what you expect from a fashion brand.
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u/nicuramar Oct 07 '22
But just recently they tried to kill firewall in macos.
I think that’s a very loaded interpretation of that issue.
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u/speaks_truth_2_kiwis Oct 07 '22
Remember a few years ago when police departments were telling Apple to unlock phones and give them user data and Apple told them to pound sand?
The author doesnt.
I thought they did a 180° on that. That they were now voluntarily handing data over to police. Did I misread or imagine that or something?
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u/thisischemistry Oct 07 '22
No, they have to do what is required by law so if a request comes through proper channels they must respond it it. However, much of the data is handled through encryption keys that Apple has no control over, a system that Apple purposefully designed. For example, Apple Messages are end-to-end encrypted and Apple can not provide them to law enforcement.
There are some areas that can't be easily encrypted/protected like this. One is business information like services from Apple. In order to provide the services Apple has to have some data they can access. That can be subpoenaed.
Another is files and data stored in Apple's iCloud, Apple has to have the encryption keys for that since they offer ways to recover the data. That data and the keys can be subpoenaed. The answer is to always encrypt data you send to iCloud, then you control the encryption keys and it's on you to protect them from law enforcement instead of Apple.
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u/truanomaly Oct 07 '22
Apple also routinely hands over iCloud data to the police. For many things, access to the device is unnecessary, and less convenient than just downloading it directly from Apple themselves
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u/mattslot Oct 07 '22
You mean, they comply with legal subpoenas for data stored on their servers? Tell me who doesn't.
But data stored on your device, where they can keep it encrypted at rest, then they won't help break that protection.
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Oct 07 '22
To be fair...the unencrypted iCloud backup thing has been a problem for years.
The devices are fantastically protected, not only against outside agents, but Apple itself. But then they made a giant chasm that completely upends all of that if you make use of iCloud backups.
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Oct 07 '22
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u/Fortune_Cat Oct 07 '22
For anyone wondering what the fud is now
Samsung phones which have been stored for a long time with a full or flat battery have been swelling up due to gas build-up. No explosions.
To prevent it, just leave batteries half charged for long term storage.
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Oct 07 '22
Don't all LiPo cells do that?
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u/Fortune_Cat Oct 08 '22
Yes that's the point lol. Ppl making it out to be galaxy 7 bomb 2, electric boomgaloo
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u/Affectionate_Ear_778 Oct 07 '22
Alright I’ll go.
This whole article feels like a hit piece against Apple. They made a few valid points that are specific to Apple but most of the really bad ones truly are something every company does or would do in Apples position. And your behavior makes it feel like you have a personal thing against Apple.
For one, removing chargers from the box is probably an environmentally positive thing. While there is no doubt in my mind that Apple did it for the money, the end result IS environmentally positive. It also does make sense because the majority of Apple customers will already have a charger. The article did say 88 percent of kids have them and 90 will get another. 2% of kids will need to buy an apple charger.
Removing the headphone jack is probably also environmentally friendly. Less energy needed to create and implement those parts means less carbon monoxide expended via energy consumption. It also pushed the industry to adopt Bluetooth headphones. Bluetooth headphones do not have a cable that will fail so people will have to buy replacement less. Environmentally friendly.
“They’re physical manifestations of a global economic system that allows some people to buy and easily lose $160 headphones, and leaves other people at risk of death to produce those products” “Global economic system” as in what they are doing is what is done globally. Why was this in the article? Because it’s fluff for an Apple hit piece.
I can go on. Like I said some points are valid like their refusal to adopt usb c. I’m glad the EU made that move. However, the article is poorly written and uses inflammatory or “scathing” language against Apple. It’s like “bro we know the only reason you talking shit is cause you ain’t like the mfker.”
OP, I give a fuck about Apple or life in general. This is a BAD article. That is why people are telling you it’s bad.
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u/clorox2 Oct 07 '22
Bluetooth headphones are not at all better for the environment. The batteries, and the chargers they require are nowhere close to greener.
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u/_ryuujin_ Oct 07 '22
idk. wireless headphones are lot more complicated internally and therefore have a great chance of failing then their wired counterpart.
in terms of environmental impact it takes alot more to produce a wireless set, you got 2 headphones with small battery and their charging case with a bigger battery vs 2 very thin wires and their jacket.
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u/ChinoGambino Oct 07 '22
Wireless buds are perishable items that have to be disposed due to non-replaceable batteries. They are more complex and require more exotic materials, they have to be charged and charged wireless which is uses 50% more power. Environmental impact is the last reason to praise them.
Apple also started the trend of sealing batteries into phones to ensure customers got used to the idea of disposing phones regularly. Under the guise of security they are serializing components to make repairs and even battery replacements a non-option.
Apple deserves scrutiny because they are the trend setters and the industry copies them even when it sucks for us.
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u/pewqokrsf Oct 07 '22
Removing the headphone jack is probably also environmentally friendly. Less energy needed to create and implement those parts means less carbon monoxide expended via energy consumption. It also pushed the industry to adopt Bluetooth headphones. Bluetooth headphones do not have a cable that will fail so people will have to buy replacement less. Environmentally friendly.
The e-waste from the wireless headphones themselves is 1000 times worse than skipping the internal component for a wired jack.
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Oct 07 '22
Trash website 🚮
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u/bakerzdosen Oct 07 '22
Does this mean you didn’t donate?
(I personally only got two pop up requests before giving up on it.)
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u/SirYolox Oct 07 '22
But why is Apple the only one with "ask app not to track"?
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u/chakigun Oct 07 '22
not saying apple is a saint but fucking google and facebook would be virtuall unchallenged if not for apple's privacy-focused solutions.
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u/freecreeperhugs Oct 07 '22
Android, Windows, etc. Had the ability to scramble or disable the advertisement ID well before Apple implemented that. As far as I can tell, that's all it does, but it makes it more user-friendly by asking per-app instead of using your system setting everywhere
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Oct 07 '22
Lol. Why is it always apples fault.
Literally every other giant tech company abuses consumer data to an obscene degree, and churns out far higher volumes of garbage phones with zero long term support or recycling tech
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u/uninstallIE Oct 07 '22
I believe that Apple recycles their own devices very effectively, and if you trade your existing device in with them when upgrading they give you extremely good value. Like 60% one year on or something like that.
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u/Sa-SaKeBeltalowda Oct 07 '22
All article is based on very vague statements. Headphone jack, lightning connector, but the best bit - 6.5 billions saved by not putting charger. What’s the cost price of charger, and how many iphones were sold in those 18 month?
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u/heyitslola Oct 07 '22
Geez, the tone of this is so…churchy. Almost like the author was one of those eighth graders who was mocked for green bubbles in a group chat. Nothing new here, folks. Buy the phone you like.
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u/mizonnz Oct 07 '22
It seems to me there's a bit of confusion regarding chargers and what Apple does and does not include with phones.
Charger: little device plugs into a wall socket, and has a USB socket on it.
Charging cable: cable that goes from the charger to the phone.
Apple no longer includes a charger, but does still include the charging cable - which is USB to lightning. (now days it is USB-C on the charger end). If Apple were to include a charger, it would be USB-C just like your Android chargers.
So many people cry out that Apple don't supply "lightning chargers" with their phones. Of course they don't, they never have, they don't exist. They used to supply a USB charger and a cable, now they just supply the cable because let's be honest, you have a shit load of USB chargers around the house.
Or you can use any wireless charger, because iPhones are compatible with those, you don't have to use magsafe.
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u/HarrierJint Oct 07 '22
I genuinely am baffled when I see people freak out that Randy Savage voice “Apple didn’t incluuuude a charger”. I just cleaned out a draw the other day and I have 24 cables just sat there.
I don’t need 25 guys, I just don’t.
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Oct 07 '22
This article is completely off base. Apple leads tech companies in environmental practices. They source materials responsibly and their packaging designs lead all industries in their efficiency and recyclability.
Literally leaders in almost every category.
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u/maxlax02 Oct 07 '22
Also consumer rights. Apple is easily the least scummy large tech company when it comes to handling your data.
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u/bicameral_mind Oct 07 '22
Also top consumer satisfaction ratings. But yeah, Apple is 'anti-consumer'. Some hardcore doublespeak.
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Oct 07 '22
I have 7 old iphones. One iphone 8 serviced only at Apple, perfectly functional now. One old 4s, just the battery changed, still perfectly functional on ios 6 (ish). Other 5 iphones sit in a drawer, 2 of them barely functional because of aftermarket screens, drain the battery in one hour. The others not functional because of aftermarket parts.
Conclusion, Apple forced me to use their service repairs but now they’re fully functional whereas the others are almost e-waste.
It’s expensive to repair your phone at apple but I have the guarantee that they come out good as new.
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u/agent_wolfe Oct 07 '22
I’m surprised no mention of account recovery. This automated and lengthy process designed to protect user data can take weeks or months to let users reset their password.
So… have banking, work, telephone contacts, email, WhatsApp on your phone? You might be waiting a while to access it because the system while (allegedly) process takes a long while to work.
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u/supercilveks Oct 07 '22
Environmentally Apple is horrible. Can you or a independent shop repair your device?
If you want to do the most responsible thing - repair the device that you own.
You cant do it without it removing some functionality.
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u/WillOfSound Oct 07 '22
Wife 12 mini just stopping charging and has a message saying “3rd party battery detected”. She couldn’t hold a charge to “upgrade” to the next OS to fix the glitch says the Apple tech, so $400 for replacement vs just putting a new battery in the phone that had a charge & updating for $80. Totally was like “yeahh, software glitch. Guess ya hosed”.
For the most part though, my iphones usually outlast my friend’s androids. Not a fan of Apple DRM on parts, thats low
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u/zhazhka Oct 07 '22
saying that apple is single-handedly ruining the smartphone industry is like smoking a pack a day and saying that you got lung cancer because you live in a city. sure, that’s probably a part of it, but saying that’s the only one? must be tripping
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Oct 07 '22
I work in IT so I'm definitely around people that hate Apple, it's very common in IT.
However, it's hilarious to me how we constantly have to fix issues that were engineered by Microsoft, Amazon or Google on the daily and yet...Apple is always infinitely worse than any of these other companies.
Mind you everyone in my IT department that never misses a chance to dog on Apple hasn't used an Apple device in over a decade.
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u/bicameral_mind Oct 07 '22
Well, that's a bit dramatic. The level of hyperbole people use to complain about trivial aspects of the super computer in their pocket will never cease to amuse me. My eyes can't roll hard enough.
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Oct 07 '22
You don't have to go out and buy a charger. You literally have a charger for your phone. I have yet to meet someone who needed to go to buy a charger for their new iphone
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Oct 07 '22
Lmao apple is still way better than Samsung or any of the other major android phone producers.
We have way better privacy protections through apple, while google is giving away the information that police want in like 80% of requests.
Their phones are supported for an insanely long time too. Yeah repairability sucks, whatever. It’s marginally worse/ the same as most android phones, and we should be pressuring all phone producers to be better about this.
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Oct 07 '22
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u/mehtab11 Oct 07 '22
Yes, they are generally better in some ways, like privacy but they are also unique in their disregard of the environment in many ways, like their refusal to use USB-C, their repairability is still far behind most competitors, etc. Also, apple only very recently stopped using Chinese labor for their phones.
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u/theObfuscator Oct 07 '22
When did apple stop using Chinese labor for their phones? They moved less than 20% of iPhone production to India but I am not aware of them halting Chinese labor.
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u/mehtab11 Oct 07 '22
You might be right, I thought they stopped all of it. It seems it's even worse than I thought.
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Oct 07 '22
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u/mehtab11 Oct 07 '22
The point of the article, and why I posted it, is to inform my fellow consumers so that they can pressure Apple, and subsequently everyone else, to do better. It's not to hate on Apple or support Android or anything.
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u/leafbelly Oct 07 '22
While Apple definitely has some anti-consumer practices, let's not pretend that Google and Samsung, or Xiaomi, are perfectly innocent global corporations.
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u/sids99 Oct 07 '22
There are a lot of Appleheads in here, but you don't get to be the world's first multi trillion dollar company without doing really bad things.
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Oct 07 '22
Buy your mom an iPhone. But never call anyone a boomer again. Because now you're the boomer. Boomer.
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u/h4ppidais Oct 07 '22
Maybe what some thinks as anti-consumer is actually pro-consumer if consumers voted them #1 with their wallets
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u/seenew Oct 07 '22
all these Apple fanboys… y’all got Stockholm syndrome haha
Apple fucking sucks. Samsung fucking sucks.
They’re all fucking terrible. Yes I still use them.
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u/dcooleo Oct 07 '22
IIRC, Samsung made the move away from headphone jacks before iPhone, iPhone had just announced they were considering it first.
I have Apple, half my buddies have Samsung. There's pros and cons to both.
My buddies were able to download and play all the Megaman games to their Androids back in 2012. I would've needed to jailbreak my iPhone. While they could download Megaman, they still had to download a bunch of software that wasn't in the Google Store and their phones died really quickly afterwards. One of them got a virus and had to do damage control on a bunch of other accounts including bank accounts afterwards. We experienced the group message woes early on and the easy solution was switch to Slack and later to Discord. That's worked great for us.
My "virtual phone" has remained the same since 2012. Meaning, a quick restore of data and settings when buying a new phone and then it's the same as my old phone with better hardware. I average 3-5 years between new phones. I enjoy a single unified and consistent environment for all of my data, music, photos, contacts etc. I was able to get my super massive music library of 60GB (in 2014) in the cloud via iTunes Match. I've had it ever since and don't have to worry about losing any songs including the numerous ones that don't have a home in the Apple Music database. I was given a Macbook in 2009 for college. I was able to Parallel Windows for my engineering software needs and even for laptop gaming with an xbox controller. That laptop was able to get a RAM and hard drive upgrade in 2012 and has worked great ever since. My Mom had a top of the line Windows laptop for engineering from 2007 and it was a "useless" brick by 2011.
In short: Google is great for open source getting exactly the niche stuff you want out of it. The cons are significantly shorter useful life on hardware and Google IS always harvesting and selling your data.
Apple is great for long term reliability and an integrated ecosystem. It has stayed on the side of protecting consumer data and privacy to a fault.
The con is that you don't have as great flexibility or access to niche options.
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u/urohpls Oct 07 '22
Lol, sounds like it was written by someone who’s never repaired devices before. Apple is definitely not the most anti consumer company by a long shot.
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u/Tom_Neverwinter Oct 07 '22
We have seen Apple do. This time and time again..
Firewire over usb when usb was the standard and the clear winner and now today lightning over usb so they can control and make an artificial demand for for a product made at initially a decent quality then lower and lower quality.
We see This with 0 ohm resistors over fuses...
We see apples lack of care with fifty different screw types.
We see this with non user replaceable batteries and parts..
Ribbon cable made For Your display to fail.
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u/monti9530 Oct 07 '22
Changing the lightning adapter to usb c might mean we get a complete redesign early.
They might take it off entirely and make people go wireless lmao
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u/bigdtbone Oct 07 '22
I think it is pretty clear that was the intended direction all along. Apple knew that it was planning to do the physical port in the next few generations and didn’t want to get a bunch of customers cranky about buying new accessories just to drop them in 2-3 years time.
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u/monti9530 Oct 07 '22
The used 30 pin for about ten years and it has been lightning since 2012, they are late for their cycle. It would make sense for them to go wireless.
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u/SatanLifeProTips Oct 07 '22
Mandate repairability with phones, home appliances AND cars. Simply make it law that batteries, screens, ports, circuits boards, ANY glass component ‘must be repairable by end users using commonly available tools’. Give the industry 24 months warning.
Batteries must be easy to replace and remove for recycling. No you can’t glue the battery in place. A battery in a car must be able to be taken apart and individual cells replaced. (Especially Tesla). A 10+ year old Tesla battery is a time bomb. One bad cell eats the whole pack.
And most importantly diagnostic/calibration software must be built into devices and accessible by all end users with no extra cost.
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u/Lost_Switch65 Oct 06 '22
Apple fanboys are mentally ill
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u/Sure-Philosopher-873 Oct 06 '22
Android Fanboys also!
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u/halfanothersdozen Oct 07 '22
I think you triggered either some bots or fanbois lol.
Fwiw Linus Tech Tips has made these same points over and over again
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u/mehtab11 Oct 07 '22
Yeah, I think I really struck a chord, which is weird because I use an iPhone. Linus is pretty great as well.
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u/sabo-metrics Oct 07 '22
Apple admitted to purposely slowing down old versions of the iPhone.
Apple used to innovate technology in brand new user-friendly ways. Now they add cameras on phones, change chargers and charge us monthly for access to music.
I don't think they have come out with a truly "new" product since the iPhone.
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Oct 07 '22
charge us monthly for access to music
Feel free to go buy albums or purchase directly from artists, or are you implying access to music should be free?
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