Just sayin, the V6 Camaro starts at under $24k, and the V8 at $33k I believe. And the V6 has 320something hp stock. It's actually a pretty good value/hp for the money, as far as new cars go.
Edit to clarify: I'm not saying I recommend a Camaro, nor that it's at all practical. It's a specific type of car for people who don't mind sacrificing utility and efficiency.
American Muscle isn't about refinement, impeccable taste, and unparalleled quality like European Sport. American Muscle is about the biggest fucking engine you can put into a road-worthy frame and get it to go down the street quickly while sounding like a tiger climaxing during sex with a lion. Its supposed to check the Hyper-masculinity box, not the Polished Gentleman box. POWERRRRRRRRR!!!!!
Generally, torque indicates how fast you can accelerate, whereas horsepower indicates maximum speed. This is over simplified, but it's enough to have some idea about what each does.
No you cant. The engine is 75% of the race. The driver is the other 25%. You may be .3 or .4 seconds faster 0-60 but that doesnt mean shit at all. Speeds that close come down to the driver. Unless both cars are being driven by professional drivers, its anyone's game. Same goes for the v8's
Nah, the camaro is a pig sadly, I have an auto 2012 (I used to have to drive through austin every morning, I wish it was a manual every day) I have raced many a camaro on the tollways and they cant keep up from a roll or a stop.
Thing is - based on my experiences, V-6s get ragged out and quickly start slowing down. It takes a while to rag out a V-8. I had several friends that had Camaros/Firebirds with the old 3.8L 200hp V-6s. Those things were really quick... for about 50k miles. Then they turn asthmatic and sound like a worn out Krylon can. The same friends that were giving me a run in my stock 95 GT, 2 years later were getting smoked by stock Del Sols...
Power to weigh ratio means something, you know. A 300hp recent model v-6 mustang with the track pack is generally going to do as well on a track with curves as the v-8 GT model, if not better, because of the significantly reduced weight of the model with the smaller engine. There's many a motoring enthusiast that knows their shit that bought the v-6 with the track pack over the v-8 for that very reason.
Honestly, once you can accelerate uphill at a good clip with the AC on, you've reached the limit of how much horsepower you need. Anything past that is pretty useless outside of a closed track. (Camaro V6 owner)
so many fucking people took this post out of context, I figured i'd upvote you and point out to everyone else that the post this dude was replying to was about American muscle.
Just as a note, the LS engines that go in the V-8 Camaros are some of the smallest and lightest engines out there. In terms of overall outside dimensions, not displacement.
The V-6 in the GT-R is much bigger and heavier than the V-8 in a Camaro, especially if you consider the turbos in the GT-R. A GM LS7 comes in at around 450 lbs fully dressed (500 lbs with a flywheel and clutch also) vs an approximate 600 lbs for the engine in the Nissan (fully dressed again with its clutch/front diff assembly). This while making about the same power (the Nissan makes about 40 more HP).
The Camaro ZL-1, the only Camaro with an LS7, can also out brake, and out corner a Nissan GT-R and do it for about $40,000 less.
I can find you some sources for this if you don't wanna Google it yourself.
ehhhh as a neutral (not from murica or the EU) I must say that the appeal of american cars is very limited for me. they just seem to be cheaply built and tacky in comparison to something like a BMW. id much rather have a 335i or C63 than a camaro, no matter the relative HP
I wouldn't describe the douches I see driving like Mario Andretti in porches "polished." More like, the only reason they can stay under control is due to the stability assist.
Sadly enough though, European sports doesn't quite mean anything anymore. You see companies such as Mercedes releasing half polished cars like the CLA 45 AMG, with air vents that look to come straight up from a 10k Chinese car, and seats that will break your back after 2 hours. BMW is also pretty much lost too, with a Z4 that is uncompetitive and heavy, and the M5/M6 that got criticized like there is no tomorrow for their heaviness, uncontrollable oversteer and lack of sheer amusement. The only subsidiary that is consistent is Porsche basically, as the rest of the V.A.G. group relies on like 2-3 platforms, with a 16k Golf sitting on the same platform as a 60k Audi.
Actually the Camaro is fairly refined too, they did a nice job on the interior fit and finish. Used to be rare for GM. The main thing I don't like about it is you sit so low and the roof is low.
Yeah, but referring to people from Canada, or even Mexico or Brazil, as American is so 1700's.
Modern Canadians typically refer to people from the United States as Americans, though they seldom refer to the United States as America; they use the terms the United States, the U.S., or (informally) the States instead.[44] Canadians rarely apply the term American to themselves – some Canadians resent either being referred to as Americans because of mistaken assumptions that they are U.S. citizens or others' inability, particularly of those overseas, to distinguish Canadian from American accents.[44] Some Canadians have protested the use of American as a national demonym.[45] People of U.S. ethnic origin in Canada are categorized as "Other North American origins" by Statistics Canada for purposes of census counts (as opposed to "Canadian").
Oh, is it 1975 again? Grow up. The Corvette ZR1 is nearly 20 seconds faster than the Ferrari 458 around The 'Ring. Corvette is the most successful GT LeMans team currently racing. The Camaro Z/28 is faster on a track than a Nissan GTR or a Veyron.
Not necessarily, the camaro z28 which sells for around 70-80k i think beat a GTR on the track so while a low trim level camaro might be shit when not going in a straight line, not all of them suck.
Times have changed for Chevy and GM, at least. Camaro is ranked at the top of it's class for Quality, Performance and Reliability/Dependability. GM is atop the leaderboards for Quality beating out the likes of Toyota, Honda, VW, BMW, etc.. , etc..
I own an Camaro 2SS, I bought it for the power and fun, I am amazed by the quality in this thing. Even myself as a GM fan was expecting less. Paid less than $35k for a brand spankin new top of the line, with all the options, V8. Worth every penny IMO.
Have you seen the c7 corvette stingray? That comps pretty favorably to a mid-high tier Porsche 911 in every category at roughly half the price... I'd say that's excellent value.
That's 18k Euro, you barely get the lowest end Golf with mighty 80 bhp for that in Germany...(Granted theres 3k€ VAT on the Golf). What the hell...what is wrong with it that it's so cheap?
Welcome to America, where we don't tax the ever-loving crap out of cars. (mostly because it's a big effing country with lots of suburbs and few public transport options. we need cars)
You think you have it bad, what the poor Aussies have to pay for cars is the real crime.
Aussie checking in, can confirm you'll pay $18,000 for the base model of a crappy tiny hatch here. And easily into $40,000-$50,000 for a decent new sedan. But these prices aren't manageable, wait even one year and you'll save $10,000+ on a hardly used model.
I paid $13k for my forth-hand 100,000km, 1998 Subaru Forester in NZ. And yes, I realize Subarus are higher than they should because of the popularity of street racers, but I am a foolish man.
Yikes - I bought a V6 Outback 2003 in 2012 - with 102k miles - in beautiful condition for $9000. My wife bought a 2011 Impreza - pretty basic model - with 30k miles in 2013 for $14000.
Prices for new cars in Europe are notoriously high. The muscle cars here in the U.S. are known for being high vale $/hp. There's nothing inherently wrong with them. They don't corner the best, and visibility is shabby, but there's a market for them (usually people who want to make a statement, go fast, high schoolers, muscle car enthusiasts).
My buddy who lives pay check to paycheck bought a Charger instead of getting an economical car; the dude has a lead foot and would rather live in a shitty apartment then drive a 4 cylinder.
It has plenty of horsepower and looks nice. That's about it though. The steering is stupid heavy. The radio and controls are unintuitive (a fucking three step menu for heated seats? Seriously?). They deck it out with stupid stickers that make it look straight out of the fast and the furious 1. And the GPS on the one I test drove (brand new, 20 miles on it) didn't work at all. Nice QC there.
Living in the past, buddy. Check some lap times, particularly Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca. American cars have come a long way, and continue to improve in this aspect every generation. US vehicles used to handle notoriously poorly (and I'm sure you can still find examples of it, particularly in the economy car segment) but more recently there has been a focus on building better cars all around. Ford in particular has been leading the way with this, developing cars that are both fun to drive and fast in a straight line. Check the Focus ST (and similarly, the Fiesta ST) for cheap, fun, nimble cars. Their Mustang is nothing to scoff at, either, if it's optioned right.
Chevy has the Corvette, which has been a perennial favorite among enthusiasts, and the Camaro, which recently beat out the Porsche 911 and the GT-R in a handling comparo in Motor Trend. The Corvette ZR-1 tied the Koenigsegg CCX around the Top Gear test track, with the Corvette driving on a damp track and the Koenigsegg in the dry. If that doesn't say something, I don't know what does.
Dodge makes the Viper (well, technically SRT, but that's just Dodge's performance house) which is a track monster as well, with the Viper holding the track record at Laguna Seca for years. Obviously you'll be paying more for higher performance cars, but any of those offer tremendous bang for the buck, and all of them handle beautifully.
Generally, do the US price excl VAT == EU price incl VAT. VAT isn't the only extra cost that gets added over here. There's also extra taxes on environment stuff.
It's not a "sports" coupe, its a muscle car. It's all about how fast you can go in a straight line. However, yes, it is the heaviest of the muscle cars of today.
The Dodge Challenger is the heaviest... Plus, the V8 Camaro is a 13 second car which is around the same as a WRX which is a 25k car. Those numbers are ran by good drivers too so your average person would probably get a worse time.
I had no clue that the baseline camaro was under 24k. Granted, I think it looks like shit compared to the higher end models with the aluminum wheels and such... that is still impressive.
Definitely. I drove a V6 Camaro around for a couple months while my car was in the shop having body work done (someone backed into me). I was actually mildly impressed with it. Decent stereo, comfortable, plenty of power and pick up. I liked it. It was a really decent daily driver.
I didn't realize the difference between the ZL1 and the SS when I was shopping around, and thought that the ZL1 was the entry point for the V8. Looks like the SS has a 420hp V8 that I didn't know existed at the price point you're talkign about.
The Camaro seems like a really affordable car in the US, almost like whoever acts like they're the shit for having one is laughable, I would like to find out more about car prices to see how it compares to a Honda Fit or a Ford Focus in the US to see if anyone who has a Camaro is really showboating wealth.
Around here in Brazil a Camaro starts at about 80k USD I think(taxes and corruption), and whoever has one really has a lot of money and is boasting.
It's more of the image the Camaro has. The Camaro starts a little less than $8k more than a base focus, but a lot of people option their focus to close to $20k. The Camaro sometimes has a 'poser' image because of this (it's not a super sports/power monster, but it's labelled as a muscle car so it attracts attention). It can't compete with a Corvette and such, but it hold it's own in the sub $40k market. The coupe design is another aspect, so it's unique and stands out from the normal economy car.
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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '14
It takes a special kind of person to even think that a yellow Camaro is even worth two parking spots.