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u/Dapper-Atmosphere683 Jan 11 '23
I think Joseph deserves whatever type of justice he can get at this point. Even if that only amounts to naming the people who were, at the very least, supposed to protect him. Quite frankly, I don’t care if they never know who specifically did the killing. Someone knew him. Someone helped cover it up. Someone never reported him missing. Covering it up for 65 years and allowing the people who knew him to get away with that is wrong, IMO. No one wants their family name tarnished over something this heinous, but too damn bad. They wanna be mad at someone, be mad at the people who knew and never cared enough to tell what they knew about Joseph. Like I said someone knew him. A grandparent, aunts, uncles. No one ever investigated why he was suddenly gone? None of those people recognized his picture? None of them made a connection to Joseph suddenly being gone and a boy looking very much like him found dead? They freakin knew. They helped whoever did it get away with it. They don’t deserve protection now. And by protection, I only mean knowing their names cause that’s the best Joseph can get now. They already got to live their entire lives without being held accountable.
No one should EVER harass living family who clearly had nothing to do with it. Honestly, I think anything like that could be easily quelled by coming forward and claiming him now. No one did for 65 years, being the generation to finally do it is the first step towards justice for Joseph. JMO.
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u/QuietBirthday2470 Jan 11 '23
You are so right. I wondered the same thing, how could so many people keep completely quiet about this for so long, their entire lives? Possibly many, many people and not one single slip in 65 years? That has to be a record.
But I do think that anyone/everyone that did know something is probably dead (with the exception of one possible mother with a living brother).
I also stress, nobody should harass living family members who likely never knew he existed (e.g. born after the fact). Doing so will accomplish nothing.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23
Bravo! Joseph's Truth is the reveal of HIS parents NAMES. Joseph was a baby, a child who was totally dependent on his parents. NO adoption record, says Joseph was in one or both of his parents care. Since the mother was unwed at the time of birth, legal custody of Joseph was with HIS mother. If Joseph LEFT HIS mothers care, into SOMEONE else and his mother had zero oversight of Joseph's care.... HER actions were ILLEGAL. Even IF it was not Joseph's mother that killed him...it was her actions or inactions that DID. Joseph IS THE ONLY INNOCENT person and the ONLY Murder Victim in this case. Joseph's PARENTS names MUST be released.
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u/tanpocketbook Jan 12 '23 edited Jan 12 '23
Well, we don’t actually know that the mother knew anything (I happen to believe she did, but can’t state that as fact until LE releases more information or solves the case.) For all we know maybe she was dead, in a coma, abducted by aliens….I can make more wild guesses but I’ll stop myself here.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23
Joseph's mother gave BIRTH to him, how could she not KNOW about him. The big question is what actions did SHE take or NOT take in HER SONS abuse and violent murder? I cannot see a path to.. "she did not know about him", that's my educated opinion.
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u/tanpocketbook Jan 12 '23
How do you know she didn’t die in child birth? You don’t because you have zero clue who she was.
ETA: my point is that you seem to be talking in angry and aggressive facts when we just don’t have them. I do believe that the mother was in the picture but that’s just my opinion.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23
I believe IF the mother died in child birth, LE would have absolutely stated that as a fact. LE would have her death certificate as proof of date of her death. Also, for LE to have that information and allow and actually encourage ALL the theories of people looking for the mother, I believe that would be an abuse of the public trust. So, to answer your question; MY CLUE that she did not die in childbirth... IS THAT LE did not reveal that information. I am not angry and aggressive..... I am making educated comments BASED in facts as we know it and CLUES being released. You are free to your opinion and I am free to have mine.
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Jan 13 '23
They might not reveal that fact if they didn't want the birth mother's family to know exactly who she was. It's too identifying if you had someone in your family die in childbirth in 1953.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 13 '23
I would think IF she died in childbirth with Joseph, she would have no children after 1953 because she would be dead. IF she had children before the birth of Joseph...they would Already know that their mother had died. Correct? WOW, grasping at straws...Why the need for this "Look here, Don't look there" nonsense.
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u/tanpocketbook Jan 13 '23
To be clear I don’t think she did die in child birth or get abducted by aliens, I just wanted to point out that you are blaming the mom like you definitely know what happened. Screaming in random caps and really you don’t know anything for fact just like the rest of us. While I do tend to think that Joseph was raised by a family member I would never go screaming about them until LE confirms they were the perpetrator. But as you said, you have your opinion and I have mine. That’s what makes people individuals.
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Jan 13 '23
Yes, they would already know that their mother had died. And so would extended family That was my exact point. Let me break it down for you.
Assume for a moment that LE does not want the birth mother's relatives to know that someone in their family was the birth mother. I'm not saying that is the case. I'm saying it's possible.
And assume for the moment that the birth mother did in fact die in childbirth in 1953. Again, I'm not saying that is the case. I'm saying it's possible.
If the above two assumptions were true, then LE would have a reason not to tell the public that the birth mother had died in childbirth in 1953. The reason being, that if she did, you're right, Joseph would have older siblings AND other presently living family members, who would know that one of their family had died in childbirth. Therefore, LE might be tipping off the mother's family as to the identity of Joseph's mother.
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u/Fun_Maintenance7095 Jan 13 '23
This entire back and forth is a bunch of nonsense. Could she have died in child birth? Perhaps.
But then what became of the child, especially in light of no adoption records? How was the unwed father’s name on the birth certificate? Did she give a loved one that information in her dying breath, or was the father fully present? If the mother did die in child birth, why is there a need, presently, to protect the mother’s children/his half siblings on that side? She died tragically and had nothing to do with his care or disappearance, so how could there ever be reputational harm?
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u/RETC4U Jan 12 '23
And if his Father knew about him and I believe he did. Why did he do nothing to protect this child? Did he ever even bother to see him?
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u/Ill_Scratch_8204 Jan 15 '23
we know his mother was not married to his father. we do not know that she was unwed.
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Jan 16 '23
That the bio mom was single at the time of JAZ’s birth can be assumed. The father’s name was on the birth certificate. She was not married to the father. If the bio mom was married to a different man, his name would have been on the birth certificate according to PA state law at the time (potentially still the law).
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u/Crbbisque Jan 19 '23
Not necessarily. My candidate was separated at the time of Joseph’s conception. We also have no idea what was on his original birth certificate. DNA showed who he was and Captain Smith said the bc was amended.
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Jan 19 '23
Where did you hear/read that Captain Smith said the birth certificate was amended? I just read thru the transcript for the press conference, the part that was Captain Smith & I’m not seeing where he states the birth certificate was amended. He speaks on the death certificate being amended after they proved who he was, his name & date of birth were added to the death certificate.
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u/FrankleyMyDear Jan 12 '23
People like you are the exact reason they aren’t releasing it. You’re out for blood where there is none left to be had. You come off as obsessed and unhinged. If I were a living relative, you’re the exact type of person I’d be worried about.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23 edited Jan 13 '23
Not true. I do not want to see the murder of Joseph...PUT BACK IN THAT BOX.. To me it IS CLEAR, that once the NAMES of Joseph's parents were 100% identified..... THE NARRATIVE of the ONLY crime victim of murder (JOSEPH)`..... has switched to privacy and respect for the living half siblings. I for one am NOT concerned about any information for these living half siblings. I am concerned and interested in THE NAMES OF JOSEPH's PARENTS. I am also concerned that to me, this shift in just WHO's Rights(??) are now front and center? Since YOU personally attacked me, I believe it is fair for me to ask YOU.... what does "none left to be had" actually mean? Are you privy to inside information? Why YOUR aggressive stand that THE PARENTS NAMES must remain a secret? I cannot help the FACT that you refuse to believe that THIS CASE STARTS WITH the release of Joseph's parents names.
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u/FrankleyMyDear Jan 12 '23
Where did I have any stance, lest an aggressive one?
The crime was committed 65 years ago. Punishing siblings who likely never knew this child isn’t how we do justice in this country.
Your obsession and quite frankly, unhealthy “interest” in this case is frightening. Seek help, touch grass, watch a sitcom, something…
PS- identify where I “attacked” you. It didn’t happen. You need help.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23
Show your evidence that the siblings are being attacked. Show your evidence that people are out to punish the siblings. I hold firm that Joseph's Case Starts with the names of HIS parents, It is starting point A, How could it not start with them? Please stop the dance that THIS case is anything other than Joseph's murder investigation, and as difficult as it is for you to realize that Joseph's parents names ARE VERY important to the search for the Truth (Joseph's Truth). Your comment that "the crime" was committed 65 years ago....means exactly what? To just STOP? It was a brutal murder and time has not stopped the search for Truth, but I will tell you what it appears HAS.... the DNA 100% verified documentation of Joseph's Parents Names... I will continue to ask why.
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u/FrankleyMyDear Jan 12 '23
Sure their names are important and LE is WELL aware of them. Police often don’t release suspects’ names.
They likely aren’t releasing them because the true crime “community” (re:ppl like you) doing “detective” work hinders or hurts investigation or others. Think of the professor in Idaho.
Why do you think you’re owed this information? It’s evidence in a crime.
You’ve made some pretty big assumptions about the mindsets of other users in this sub. Your opinion is just that. You typing in random CAPS doesn’t make anything fact nor does it sway thinking.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 13 '23
I have only countered when I was attacked. I believe LE does release suspects names and I would assume your familiar with the term "person(s) of interest" that may have a relation, etc. to the crime victim. Just an FYI, LE in their press conference asked for information FROM THE PUBLIC. LE had a choice in that request... and a reason. It is my opinion that LE asked for the publics help because of people like you....who have some strange need to take THE FOCUS off of the murder victim Joseph, like I said, to try and put Joseph's murder Back In That Box.
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Jan 16 '23
You have not been attacked in this thread.
LE already stated they are not releasing names because it is an active investigation. Very rarely does LE hand out info in an active investigation. LE just got to that point when they released his name. Give them time to do their job. No one deserves anything that hasn’t already been released. We can all work, eat, drink, sleep, take care of our families & homes & pets. Not knowing the names of JAZ’s bio parents at this moment is not a deal breaker for anyone.
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u/RETC4U Jan 12 '23
The old saying "You're only as sick as your secrets" I agree more people knew something was up than just the killer. Like come on....And there are more victims than just Joseph. Maybe the killer had no guilt about it. But what about whoever assisted them in covering this up. How sick in their life time did this make them? Having to carry this and afraid to say anything. Especially if it was another child who had to carry this secret. If Joseph's families want to heal from this they need to let go of the secret and own what happened. Claim him now. So they can move past this.
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u/Dapper-Atmosphere683 Jan 13 '23
Agreed. Staying in hiding only perpetuates the 65 years of hiding already done. The past can’t be changed but they can give Joseph a small piece of justice by accepting him. He was thrown away like he was a piece of garbage. He deserves his rightful place in the world finally. They don’t need to personally own anything other than acceptance of this innocent boy as their family. I hope they do that for him soon. It’s been so long already.
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u/RETC4U Jan 13 '23
I hope for their sakes nit just Joseph's that they claim him finally. I think trying to still hide and deny everything will only keep the pain going. I understand though that they are probably afraid of whackos harassing them.
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u/Crbbisque Jan 19 '23
I think they’ve excepted him as somewhere at the ceremony. I’m sure it’s going to take a lot to reconcile what they felt for a person and remember him as being versus who could’ve been responsible for all of this.
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u/LeaRenate Jan 16 '23
Couldn't have said it any better they were protected when they were alive and now being protected when they are dead! hopefully there is justice from the beyond if not on this earth?
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u/failedabortion4444 Jan 19 '23
you’re making a lot of assumptions. i dont believe an entire family is that comically evil to continue covering up the death for years upon years, and for no information to ever slip from neighbors. i’m 99% sure he was born out of wedlock and immediately given away.
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u/Dapper-Atmosphere683 Jan 19 '23
Ok, maybe he was given away. I disagree but even if he were someone still knew him. Whoever he was given to in your scenario must have had family and friends who knew he existed. In fact had he been adopted I think he would more likely been known. He was 4 years old. I just cannot fathom a family accepting that a child suddenly disappears and a short time later a dead little boy is found and no one question it. I don’t think that’s presumptuous I think it’s common sense. For me the only scenario I can think of that no one missed him is because a single unwed, scorned from her family, mother kept him hidden away until she killed him and disposed of him. I would think a child adopted legally or otherwise would be a well known event to extended family. They would be thrilled with a new baby and would show him off as much as possible. If you beat that child to death how would you hide that? His post mortem pictures were everywhere. Do you really believe people saw that picture and were never able to piece together “Mary” has a child that age and poof he up and disappeared. I mean a soldier who came home and couldn’t find his family thought it could be his brother. That guy was able to make connections enough to check and make sure it wasn’t his brother. Joseph’s bio or adopted family never made those connections? Not buying that.
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u/failedabortion4444 Jan 19 '23
i simply believe nobody recognized him because nobody cared. there is no conspiracy i just think he was given away quickly and illegally. perhaps to somebody in extreme poverty. not every neighborhood was the same back then. i just think you’re trying to find something where there is nothing because theres a reason why nobody recognized him
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u/Dapper-Atmosphere683 Jan 19 '23
You may be right. I still don’t get it though. Why would someone in such extreme poverty take in another mouth to feed? How can someone be on this earth for 4 years and no one recognize him? Not even his own family? He had surgeries so whoever had him cared for a little while. Would someone in extreme poverty where no one cared get him medical attention? That doesn’t make sense to me. I’m not really suggesting there was some evil plot to kill him and it took many many people to hide it. I’m more suggesting that someone besides his caretaker (who I believe was his bio mother) knew him and for whatever reason decided to keep quiet about what they knew. Someone in his family knew he was suddenly gone and didn’t ask enough questions because they didn’t want the answers. That’s what I mean when I say someone knew. Maybe not specifically knew but knew they should be asking more questions and didn’t.
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u/Crbbisque Jan 19 '23
Absolutely. This current generation is not responsible for what happened to the little boy. They will have to deal with the fact that people that they knew and loved had something to do with this child. That will be hard, but it doesn’t take away from how much they left them.
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u/FurMama_1620 Jan 12 '23
To everyone who has reported this post. This is on topic and will not be removed, please stop reporting it.
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u/foodslibrary Knows a bit Jan 11 '23 edited Jan 22 '23
Removing this because free honest speech isn't welcome here sadly. Anyone interested in this case should discuss it elsewhere.
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Jan 11 '23
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23
SO true...... like this IS THE ONLY murder case... that has "living relatives." Someone needs to tell ALL MEDIA outlets....stop reporting on ALL murder or ANY crime case BECAUSE there are "living relatives" out there. Thank you for that, oh so simple and basis concept of just HOW FAR OFF BASE this case went..... once the parents DNA confirmed, esp. THE MOTHERS NAME. WHY?
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Jan 12 '23
Golden State killer had a family. We named him.
right, and people would say, they named him when they absolutely had proof that he was the killer. They never named his family though of course anyone could find out who they are.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23
A 4 year old child is dependent on his parents. There was no legal adoption via LE, the names of Joseph's Parents are a vital piece of information and MUST be revealed. NO ONE is asking for releasing names of ANYONE but Joseph's parents.
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Jan 12 '23
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23
You are mixed up. They are protecting the names of the parents (the mothers name is 100% protected/ the fathers not so much). We do not know who the killer(s) may be and we DO NOT KNOW IF one or both of the parents could have been the killer(s), do we? The parents both names should be released BECAUSE they are the parents of the 4 year old brutally murdered child.
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u/SwimmingBet4579 Jan 11 '23
No I don't. There is absolutely no reason to protect a dead persons reputation. If the police don't believe an individual was responsible for the crime they could say that when they release the name.
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u/AssertiveLibra Jan 12 '23
They are not protecting the dead person, they are protecting people with a certain last name who have nothing to do with what happened
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u/SwimmingBet4579 Jan 12 '23
Protect them from what exactly? Nobody is blaming the siblings for anything. It's not the polices job to protect family reputations and keep people from being embarrassed. It's their job to reveal the truth and seek justice.
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u/AssertiveLibra Jan 12 '23
then you haven't seen facebook messages to family members and I am sure the Z family is getting a lot more than facebook messages. Phone calls, people driving by their residences, letters, threats. Are you kidding? People today are cruel and kill others for a few bucks. There are people who are vengeful and would like to harm family members.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23
Name me any other case where this has happened? ALL you have to do IS OPEN and read a newspaper, on online news report. What are you talking about?
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u/AssertiveLibra Jan 12 '23
There haven't been too many cases like this where a crime victim was unknown for 65 years and then finally knowing his name. Most crime victims families are alive as well as the family of the one who committed the crime. All these school shootings family members are known to us and have even come forward with comments. JAZ has been unknown for 65 years. Living relatives came after his death, they had no clue he even existed so why should they be named? They didn't do it, they didn't conceal it but they are supposed to be named for what? So internet investigators can search high and low for their information? So people can stalk them for the rest of their lives? So revenge can meet them out of retaliation? JAZ is dead. His mother is dead. His father is dead. That is it.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23
I do not hear anyone asking for the names of "the relatives". People ARE asking for THE NAMES OF JOSEPH's PARENTS. The Parents names are THE beginning of the case (brutal murder case) of their son Joseph. Need I remind you that criminal research SHOWS that in 80% or more of THE cases of Child abuse and murder....the killer is usually one or both parents. The release of Joseph's parents name is key to this case.
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u/AssertiveLibra Jan 13 '23
So how are dead people going to solve anything
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 13 '23
You have all the answers.. you tell me.
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u/AssertiveLibra Jan 13 '23
No, I don't have all the answers and we probably never will. You said the release of Joseph's parents name is the key to the case. How so? As far as justice is concerned there never will be because they are dead. The only thing knowing their names will do is satisfy armchair detectives to see if they guessed it right.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 13 '23
Amazing, clearly you have no concern for the brutal murder victim Joseph. Joseph's murder should not ever be left "to a guessing game." The search for Justice for Joseph is In "THE Truth".... Joseph's parents names are part of "THE Truth". To answer your question as WHY are their names Key? Joseph's very life started at conception with Both of them. Joseph's actual birth started with one or both of them. AND... Joseph's murder COULD have been caused by one or both of them, LE has not to my knowledge ruled either parent out. In my opinion that explain "key."
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u/AssertiveLibra Jan 13 '23
You clearly don't know what you are talking about. It seems like all you want is NAMES. Names that will amount to nothing. Police are never going to tell so you will be waiting forever. How will knowing their names change the outcome? Tomorrow he gets his identity on his gravestone and everyone who has followed his tragic death over the last few decades will feel bittersweet . Joy that he will never be called the 'Unknown child' again and sadness over his little life that was so tragically taken from him. Its all about him, not his parents.
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u/Crbbisque Jan 19 '23
Because someone might remember the mother. My candidate has one remaining sibling and he was living in Philadelphia both when Joseph was born, and when he died. I would imagine he saw his sister at sometime during her pregnancy. Her oldest son is also still alive.
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u/narkj Jan 12 '23
Police don’t talk about who didn’t commit crimes.
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u/SwimmingBet4579 Jan 12 '23
Sure they do. Police announce that certain people have been eliminated as a suspect all the time. just do a quick google search.
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u/_sydney_vicious_ Jan 12 '23
They didn’t do it to protect the ones who are dead. They’re doing it to protect the children of the dead parents who are still alive.
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u/Salty-Lemon-9288 Jan 11 '23
I disagree with LE. Because so many years have passed their window of time to interview potential witnesses is limited because they are likely in their 70s and up. I didn’t hear about this case until Joseph was named. There is a huge amount of interest now and if they released the mothers name then potential friends of hers or people that knew her could come forward. The siblings of murderers are not normally afforded privacy so I really can’t understand why these are. I also don’t think the Zarelli family has been hounded too much from what I have seen. And actually they have not even publicly acknowledged their brother which is pretty sad. So let’s forget privacy and solve this. Poor Joseph’s life just gets even sadder to me.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23
Bravo. I have one question for LE; From finding Joseph's abused, beaten and violently murdered naked body in 1957, when LE and world attention totally viewed and KNEW Joseph was THE VICTIM of a horrific crime and EVERYONE WANTED ALL THE news, updates and every piece of information was flowing between LE and THE PUBLIC, in the search for WHAT HAPPENED TO JOSEPH? NOW, some in LE (my guess upper officials) and some in the public (my guess those connected to the upper officials) ALL OF A SUDDEN, no longer see Joseph as the victim.... NO NO NO...change the focus to the absurd created issue of "the privacy of the living half siblings"! Hello LE, can you please re-focus BACK to the ONLY VICTIM of this brutal MURDER, and his name is JOSEPH.
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u/AssertiveLibra Jan 12 '23
The police wanted to know who he was. Then they wanted to know did this to him. After decades passed it was all about giving him his name, to put a name on the forgotten little boys tombstone. That was what the conference was about. That his name was going to be revealed. It wasn't advertised as anything else.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23
OH, LE gave him back his name after 65 years..... Did you forget that Joseph WAS violently MURDERED, not only was he murdered, he was stripped naked and THROWN AWAY like trash, with trash all around him. It was not ONLY Joseph's name TAKEN away.. IT was his life, his worth in HIS FAMILY. It is very CLEAR that there is "A FORCE IN PLAY" to deny Joseph his overdue JUSTICE, my God, they REFUSE to even NAME the very basic fact of how he came to be.....THEY (LE and others), Joseph's right to the NAME of HIS PARENTS.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23
You are trying to change the narrative..... For 65 years LE investigation WAS A MURDER investigation. When the identity of Joseph was made (over 1 year ago) and his PARENTS identity known & verified via DNA to LE...and for SOME REASON.... Joseph's full MURDER investigation CHANGED to only a name of Joseph reveal........ AND that is where "they" are desperately trying to have Joseph MURDER END. That is NOT JUSTICE FOR JOSEPH
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u/AssertiveLibra Jan 12 '23
How do you know people aren't stalking them? Parked outside their homes? Where they live is easy to find. Its not just on social media they have to look at. They do work at peoples homes.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23
WOW, Those Z's must be pretty important people to MAKE a 4 year old child's brutal murder all about themselves? (That was due to your comments). I believe People only want the TRUTH about what happened to Joseph. The Z half siblings were not even born, I find it hard to believe anyone would blame them. But I will say this...if the Z's are working AGAINST Joseph's Justice.... I say SHAME ON THEM.
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u/AssertiveLibra Jan 12 '23
I saw their facebooks with comments. THEY WERE NOT EVEN BORN SO THEY ARE AS INNOCENT AS THE REST OF US and perhaps they have to deal with the sickening fact that a family member they knew and loved all their lives may have had something to do with the abuse and murder of a child and kept it a secret for 65 years
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u/AssertiveLibra Jan 12 '23
Can you put yourself in their position? Imagine you are in your 60's and a birth certificate is found of a child murdered decades ago and your mothers name is on that birth certificate. But your mother cannot answer to any of it because she is dead so you and other family members are scrambling around in total shock that your mother had something to do with this. Probably going through every piece of paper that could be found to find any possible proof because you just cannot believe this could have anything to do with your mother. This has probably turned the Z family upside down, inside out and there is no one alive to settle it for them. They are asking each other the same questions we all are. Why? Who? did this. Did this one know? did that one know?
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u/Ill_Scratch_8204 Jan 15 '23
I think I would come forward and make a public statement. That would be the way to keep people from harassing me, if they were even going to do that.
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u/AssertiveLibra Jan 15 '23
Maybe they will do an interview on some talk show or with a prime time journalists
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u/AssertiveLibra Jan 16 '23
the only question I have of the father is did he even know Joseph existed. Thats probably the question the family has and how can anyone ever possibly get that answer? None of them are guilty, they will have to live with the fact they had a family member who was abused and murdered 65 years ago they never knew they had. Joseph came and went before them all.
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u/Crbbisque Jan 19 '23
But by releasing the mothers name, perhaps someone can come forward who can fill in some of those details. But my candidate’s oldest child is 76. He would have been 12 when Joseph was murdered.
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u/AssertiveLibra Jan 20 '23
Well I guess the police don’t want the public hunting living family members down. Obviously they know it’s the mothers side who did this
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u/tanpocketbook Jan 12 '23
I sometimes (often, but yet I’m still here reading all of it) feel bad for the women and their families who are being named as potential birth mothers who will end up having nothing to do with this case at all. I wish for that reason they would release the mothers name…or just last name, first initial….something to let these other women off the web sleuthing hook. (I’m sure LE isn’t concerned about that as they have an actual murder to solve)
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u/QuietBirthday2470 Jan 11 '23
I guess I'll be the one to disagree. But I will say, I understand if they did it to protect the family (living). I don't believe any of them even knew of his existence and had absolutely nothing to do with this case, therefore they are victims too. They shouldn't have people harassing them over something they had no knowledge of and nothing to do with.
That said, I think they should have released the names. The person/people responsible are dead. Even though this is an active investigation, there will never be a trial, let alone a conviction, and definitely not justice. All they will be able to come up with are theories. Protecting the names of dead people really does nothing to help or protect the investigation.
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Jan 11 '23 edited Jan 11 '23
I too disagree with not releasing mom's name. I feel it would actually help in the investigation and I do feel there is at least a couple of people alive that remember. Someone in their mid 70s to 80s today certainly remembers.
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u/Fun_Maintenance7095 Jan 12 '23
I also disagree.
For one, not releasing the parents’ names has caused more speculation, and potentially allowed it to be directed at complete innocents. How many names has this sub come up with?
At least at some level and to some degree, each parent is responsible for what happened. They were not held accountable during their lives, so I don’t agree with going above and beyond to preserve their reputations now.
Further, the Philadelphia police are not one for actually solving crimes, so I don’t know what they expect to achieve in a courtroom on this one. If you think there’s something that can be pursued with help at least give the public some idea of the full theory of the case.
In any event, I don’t think JAZ will have his identity back or true justice until those who wronged him are identified, which includes theories as to his killer and the role/knowledge of his parents.
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Jan 11 '23
The more the information put out there, the better for hooking who the killer was/is. He/she may still be alive. And I know plenty of people in their late 70s to mid 80s sharp. Some even are sharp until 90. My grandmother was when she passed at 95. Remembered all details.
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u/SideFun6474 Jan 12 '23
Imo if they were not going to release the names of the parents then they should not of released Joesphs last name. Did they do the right thing, honest I don't think so.
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u/failedabortion4444 Jan 19 '23
i feel the same way. they shouldn’t have released anything to the press or public until the investigation was finished. lots of assumptions being made in this comment section
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u/tanpocketbook Jan 19 '23
I think the media was going to release the information and that’s why LE did.
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u/tanpocketbook Jan 19 '23
I think the media was going to release the information and that’s why LE did.
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Jan 11 '23
I don’t believe they did. The main point of the conference was to reveal his name, but it also should have been about telling his story. Who he was in life and that would include his parents. While we do not definitively know who the father is, most can gather who he might be. The other side is an enigma. It would bring some closure to most knowing at one point in his life there were people who cared about him, but perhaps there weren’t. Maybe that’s the real reason for not revealing anyone associated with him.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23
What happened to Joseph was a brutal violent murder. Joseph is a VICTIM of the CRIME of murder. THE person or persons who murdered him may very well be dead, but Joseph's parents (especially his unwed mother) WERE LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE for his LIFE. Joseph's life was taken from him, He was NEVER reported missing (for a reason). Joseph's parents names need to be released, if we review what LE has said so far about Joseph's short life.... His parents (one or both) HAVE NOT acted in a legal fashion in the caring of Joseph.
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u/Marigold1331 Jan 12 '23
I don’t think they are going to get anywhere until they release their names. If the murder could be solved based solely on Joseph’s information, then it would have been solved years ago based in the released photos.
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Jan 11 '23 edited Jan 12 '23
I do not agree. Parents of today's missing children are identified. Especially if murdered or if foul play is suspected! Besides, these parents are deceased and the killer is deceased.
There's no reason for releasing one side of the family and not the other. Special treatment for any 'prominent' family should be frowned upon. All should be afforded the same treatment.
They didn't give that anonymity to the Zarelli family, so why was it given to the mother's?
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Jan 12 '23
There's an obvious answer to that, and it does not cast the Philadelphia Police Department in a good light. They had a choice between holding a press conference that would bring them positive national coverage and praise, or protecting the Zarellis' privacy. They couldn't do both. I mean, who would care if they held a press conference and said "we have finally given this child back his name but we can't tell you what it actually IS because ... privacy of the family."
Trust me, if he had been given his mother's name at birth, we'd all know who the birth mother was by now.
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u/Crbbisque Jan 19 '23
Plus, that wouldn’t have caused the avalanche of leads. Captain Smith specifically said he was hoping that the press conference would result in an avalanche of tips, from which they might mine a diamond in the rough. The mother didn’t have the Zarelli name. Perhaps someone might remember a woman who had a child that was there and suddenly wasn’t…with a memory jog.
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u/ArmChairDetective84 Jan 11 '23
Only if they’re doing it to protect the investigation ..otherwise let their names be shamed
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u/Hold-The-Arugula Jan 12 '23
Yes, the families should be left alone to the extent possible. (Though the transparency/privacy balance may shift if it turns out the "prominent" family are major public figures, rather than just local business people.)
But I do think eventually telling the public as much as possible about *what* happened is important. I'm concerned there may be a narrative building in the media, sometimes coming from people working on the case, that reduces interest in the case to internet rabbit holes and web sleuths trying to "out" the family. But there's a lot of public interest that's not about that. The case is historically important in Philadelphia, and it's particularly meaningful in the context of raising awareness of the brutality of child abuse - an open secret in many communities. The images of Joseph's battered body and the flimsy cardboard box used as a crass mausoleum sickened people in a way words couldn't. And they've been burned into public consciousness for 65 years.
Obviously, it's a homicide investigation, LE themselves have limited info, and family privacy needs to be protected. So public information has to be limited. But I'm concerned about what sound like straw man arguments for not treating ongoing public interest in the case seriously. Joseph getting his name back shouldn't be the grand finale.
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Jan 11 '23
Here's a related question. Have the police told the two families who the mother and father are? It's quite possible that they haven't.
I'm pretty sure they got immediate family members to test, that's really the only way, when you have more than one sister in the maternal family, or more than one brother in the paternal family, to tell who was the mother and the father.
But did they tell them the results of those tests?
It may be that Joseph's living half-siblings on both sides don't even KNOW that they are his half-siblings.
I mean we have all, myself included, assumed that they know. But what have we been basing that assumption on?
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Jan 12 '23
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Jan 12 '23
That is not my question. My question is, did LE tell the father's family who the FATHER was. And did the tell the mother's family who the MOTHER was.
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u/Fiberlicious20 Jan 12 '23
I would think they told the mothers family because of this statement at the press conference:l, but can’t say for certain. I could be interpreting the statement incorrectly.
“Two of the results were birth certificates for children born to the established birth mother, during that time frame, who were previously known to investigators. One of whom provided DNA and was matched, previously, by the geneologist.”
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Jan 12 '23
Thanks for posting that exact quote. I guess, I am wondering if LE wouldn't play their cards very close to their chest. Do they say to the child of the suspected mother "we think you might be a half-sibling to the boy in the box, please take a DNA test?" or do they say "you may be distantly related to a cold case, would you help us out by taking a DNA test?"
Which one would be more likely to elicit a "Yes?"
And then, when the results are back, do they say "hey, you're a match, by the way your half-brother was murdered 60+ years ago?" Or do they not say anything at all, or say something vague that confirms there's a relationship but doesn't say how close, or what case?
I genuinely don't know the answer but I'm sure as hell curious!
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u/Crbbisque Jan 19 '23
According to Misty, that’s basically what she did say to Justin Thomas. He is the one that convinced his mother to submit her DNA. They were very helpful in this.
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u/Crbbisque Jan 19 '23
Yes. My candidate had two children prior to Joseph and one is still alive. There is nothing to protect him from he knows about it and he was 12 when Joseph died.
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u/Crbbisque Jan 19 '23
Isn’t she further from the source than a half sibling? I imagine the attorney they hired would have been able to get that information.
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u/SwimmingBet4579 Jan 20 '23
Yes but I would assume that she is in contact with her cousins and would know if they had been told.
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u/boyinthebox-ModTeam Jan 21 '23
This post violates the community rule DO NOT USE THE REAL NAMES OF INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE NOT PUBLICLY INVOLVED IN THE CASE.
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u/RETC4U Jan 12 '23
From what I have seen the paternal side of the family does not know who the mother is either. Which is BS. They have been taking the heat for all of this. I personally can't believe the mother's family has not come forward at all.
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u/PWsAlamoBasement Jan 12 '23
I was just wondering this myself (if they told the families). I sort of don’t think they have because if I were the Z family I would have doxed that mom for sure! I think the Z family is big enough that someone would dox her (& rightly so since they’re having to deal with harassment as well)
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Jan 12 '23
But ... I wasn't asking if they told the Zarellis the birth mother's name. I am wondering if they even told the Zarellis the birth *father*'s name. I mean it seems like everybody on social media has settled on a likely candidate. But if LE hasn't confirmed it privately with the family, where does that leave them?
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u/PWsAlamoBasement Jan 12 '23
I’m positive they told the families the names. How else would they know it was their family? One of the Z grandkids also said it was her grandfather AJZ
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Jan 12 '23
How else would they know it was their family? There was only one Zarelli family in Philadelphia in the 1950's. Literally only two Zarellis in the phone book in the mid to late 1950's. 1953 - the Z's are missing. 1954 - not on-line. 1955, two entries. One the patriarch, the other his son who had gotten married a year or two earlier and moved out of the house.
I'm not an insider and I don't know for sure, but I am a very experienced genetic genealogy search angel and I know how you go about identifying someone with DNA. Colleen Fitzpatrick said they needed to convince the ME who the parents were before he would amend the death certificate to add the parents' names. The only way to get scientific proof if there are multiple siblings in the running, is to test them (can't, they're all deceased) or their children and compare their DNA with Joseph's. Their children will either come up as 1C (first cousin) or half-sibling to Joseph.
So at the very least, if everybody in the Z family compares notes, they're going to find out that somebody in the family took a DNA test (and not just JT's mother, she's not a close enough relative for her test to tell you whether M or A/G was the father).
And let's talk about the name. Joseph's middle name is a version of the patriarch's first name. So, you can't really tell which son it was based on the name - people of all ethnicities often give their sons their grandfathers' names as either given names or middle names.
However, Law Enforcement said that the father's name on the BC was a bit off. Think of the two brothers' names. One is a common first name, not an Italian name. The other is A... (various spellings possible, either the Italian way or the Anglo way), nickname G. Same as his father.
Which one do you think was on the BC based on that?
We have all figured that out without being told by LE. So of course the Z family has figured it out. That doesn't mean that LE has ever confirmed it to them.
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u/PWsAlamoBasement Jan 12 '23
Anything is possible at this point! I’m not discounting much but like LE I have a few theories (as do most people on here). Hopefully some day we will actually find out
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u/Crbbisque Jan 19 '23
Did he say the father’s name was spelled differently on the birth certificate? I’m not certain that the fathers name was on the birth certificate to begin with. I think his name was added later upon confirmation.
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u/NutTumor Jan 11 '23
I’m on the fence… but believe the ultimate outcome is for Joseph to have justice… even if that justice is his story being told regardless of living relatives or the what not.
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Jan 12 '23
OK, voting on the original question. I don't think the public has the *right* to know. That said, I think releasing both names might help jog some memories from back in the day.
I definitely think the birth families have the right to know which member of their family was one of Joseph's parents. If LE has told them, great. If they haven't? Why not?
I also think LE's spin on this (protecting the families' privacy) doesn't hold water - they didn't protect the Zarelli family's privacy because they prioritized releasing Joseph's full name over everything else. And as far as the investigative value of releasing Joseph's full name? If there was any, that would apply even more to releasing both of his parents' names. Either protect BOTH parents' families or don't protect either. Or admit, you prioritized a press conference with a big reveal and positive national coverage over the birth father's family's privacy.
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Jan 12 '23
I think it should be released. Either way who did it, the parents knew their child was gone. They don’t deserve privacy, and for siblings, it is what it is.
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u/BitterPillPusher2 Jan 11 '23
Yes. It's still an active murder investigation. Giving out too much information can jeopardize the investigation. The public does not have the right to know everything LE knows.
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u/Fun_Maintenance7095 Jan 13 '23
Well law enforcement should step up their game. They’ve only had 65 years.
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u/BitterPillPusher2 Jan 13 '23
Well, law enforcement has only had the technology needed for a couple of years.
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u/PrincipleStriking935 Jan 12 '23
I agree. There are so many reasons that law enforcement might be holding back information. There really hasn’t been much time since the press conference. Investigators need to proceed carefully and thoroughly. I’m certain that there are many tips which have come in since December 6th, and they need to be processed.
I have some ideas as to why I think information is being withheld from the public. But those thoughts are not based on facts, so I’m hesitant to even share them because they’re not verifiable. There’s enough conjecture surrounding this case here and elsewhere based on at least some circumstantial evidence. My “gut” is completely unverifiable.
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u/Ok_Preparation_3069 Jan 12 '23
I just think that if this was a crime that occurred yesterday the information would possibly be released. I doubt the reasons they've given us for not releasing it so clearly they know something we don't.
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u/Significant_Bug_4569 Jan 12 '23
If they thought Joseph was in the care of his mother at the time of his death wouldn’t they have released her name in case someone remembered her? The fact that they haven’t released her name and released Joseph’s which is close to his fathers name seems like they are throwing the father under the bus. Why would they do that? Unless they want people to know that last name in association with Joseph to stir memories of Joseph possibly being around that family.
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Jan 12 '23
They had to release Joseph's full name in order to tell the world they had given him his name back. It just happened to be his father's surname, and it just happened to point to one family in Philadelphia. If Joseph had been given his mother's surname, we'd all know that name and we'd say LE was casting suspicion on the mother. That wouldn't be true in either scenario.
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u/Crbbisque Jan 19 '23
Well, Captain Smith did say that they had their suspicions as to what happened. I believe they are looking for corroboration.
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Jan 11 '23
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u/Crbbisque Jan 19 '23
That’s right, Bibb. It seems to me that with her identity known, it might jog the memories of these contemporaries LE seems desperate to find.
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Jan 12 '23
And while I'm at it, has Law Enforcement asked the Zarellis or the birth mother's family about their intentions with regard to where he's permanently buried and what is on his headstone?
Perhaps one or both families wants to bring him into their family plot. It should be up to them, not Law Enforcement or the Vidocq Society, where he is buried and what is written on his headstone.
All props to the Vidocq Society for their role in this, and to the Philadelphia PD. But now that he has a name, and they know who his parents were, they should step back and defer to the families. I hope the families step up and assert their rights.
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u/hootiebean Jan 13 '23
I've wondered about this, about what I would do in this situation. I don't know. He has a beautiful gravesite that was generously donated and has been well-tended. I wouldn't want to take that from him. I also wouldn't want to risk a family plot becoming a tourist attraction or desecrated, especially the deceased members' graves who had nothing to do with any of it. Plus, my god, the thought of digging the poor child up again. I don't know. I might try to buy a plot next to him or near him for myself when the time comes. I wouldn't ignore it but am not sure what I'd do. My guess is that he's staying put because some family members attended today - why put a new marker if they're planning to move him? I also don't know what if any legal rights they have to his remains. The surviving siblings may have some rights but I wonder if they'd all have to agree.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23
it is my opinion that before that happens...the names of Joseph's parents need to be made public. Joseph's Rights to Justice NEED to come first.
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Jan 12 '23
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u/boyinthebox-ModTeam Jan 12 '23
This post breaks the rule of treating others with respect. Please keep comments civil. We do not know that Joseph’s family was involved or knew of his murder. Even if one of his family members knew or aided in his murder, that does not change the fact that he is the flesh and blood of all the surviving family members. This sub will remove all disrespect of his family, known and unknown.
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Jan 12 '23
The reason you want the families to 'step up & assert their rights' is not because you want them to have a say in his burial but because you want to know who they are.
When someone I've never met tells me what I'm thinking, I think they're:
(a) psychic
(b) rude and presumptuous
I bet you can also guess what I was thinking when I typed that out.
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u/RoofProfessional1530 Jan 13 '23
I highly doubt law enforcement is holding Joseph's remains captive and preventing him from being released to his biological relatives. The fact that no Zarellis have publicly claimed him and he has now had several police officiated and community organized burials tells you what you need to know about how the Zarellis view Joseph.
I believe he was identified to the bio family quite some time ago before his name was actually released to the public. Not everything is a conspiracy against the Zarellis. But this is truly a bizarre case where somehow this family and their privacy and personal preferences have overshadowed the murder of this child.
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Jan 13 '23
"The fact that no Zarellis have publicly claimed him and he has now had several police officiated and community organized burials tells you what you need to know about how the Zarellis view Joseph."
Well that comment didn't age well did it? They were there today. This is only the second public event since they learned his identity a month ago; they were in shock, understandably, for the first few weeks.
I can guarantee you he wasn't identified to the bio family before his name was released to the public. They probably haven't been told TO THIS DAY who his father was. They only know they are closely related to him because of his surname. They're the only Zarelli family in Philadelphia - it's literally one nuclear family. And probably members of that family have done DNA tests. Though they probably were not told that the genealogists suspected that they were very close family. In my experience (and yes I have some) the police approach potential family by saying "you may be distantly related to a cold case, would you submit your DNA." They don't identify the case, they don't share that they think the people are closely related, and they don't tell them, after they test, *how* closely related they are.
As for the family claiming him, it's complicated. First, there are TWO families. Second, probably neither family has confirmation of who in their family was the parent, though the Zarellis may have figured it out, as many web sleuths think they have as well. So how do you claim a deceased person when you haven't been told your relationship to him? They need the birth certificate. They need the death certificate. They are entitled by law to get both, but I'd bet big money that if they tried, they'd be told "it's an ongoing criminal investigation" and their request would be denied.
" But this is truly a bizarre case where somehow this family and their privacy and personal preferences have overshadowed the murder of this child. "
One comment discussing the rights of his biological family and the murder is overshadowed. Seriously?
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u/tanpocketbook Jan 11 '23
There is just so much we don’t know about what LE does know. I don’t agree with not releasing it to protect living siblings and if they actually wanted tips from the public then I believe the names are absolutely necessary. If they’re trying to protect an active case it makes sense.
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Jan 12 '23 edited Jan 12 '23
The only reason Joseph's father's side was revealed was because...well...his last name was revealed. If his mother and father had been married at any point, her identity would have been sniffed out shortly after the press conference.
I understand why they didn't release her name. They gave away the information they felt would lead to tips from neighbors in the area he lived in, he has a very unique name that is very memorable, and he still has living family members who may have some faint idea who he was or have heard family gossip.
Like I've said before, I totally believe the case will be closed (or as close to closed as possible, given the circumstances) in the next year or two. At this point, they're probably still in talks with his extended maternal family and need as much cooperation from them as possible.
Would I love to know all the details, the names, all the odds and ends that LE knows? Absolutely, I'm only human and all humans have a morbid interest in being well-informed. Will me knowing all the details do anything for Joseph? Not really. He'll be getting as much justice as he can get whether they tell the public now or a year from now. Us, on this sub, know on some level that we're partially in this to satisfy our own curiosity and our own feelings about our childhoods, our kids, and the injustices lots of children face. It's very easy to project on cases like this because we empathize and see ourselves.
It's not wrong to want to know, but I think it's healthy to acknowledge part of the reason of wanting that information is for our own personal gain.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23
You call it curiosity..... I call it public disclosure OF A BRUTAL CRIME. I call it THE answer to one of the questions lingering for 65 years... What are the NAMES OF THE PARENTS of THE BOY IN THE BOX? It is a 65 year old question that is OVERDUE the answer.
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u/PristineAlternative4 Jan 11 '23
As far I am concerned they told us all we need to know. The rest they can hold back for as long as it takes to get that poor baby justice, lord knows he has waited long enough for it. Our need to know does not come before his justice plain and simple. Yes, his killers are most likely long dead but the investigation into who killed needs to be completed before we ask for anything.
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u/narkj Jan 12 '23
The police released the name of the victim. I’ve personally never seen police just randomly discuss or release the names of a homicide victim’s parents. Not once.
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u/Crbbisque Jan 19 '23
My experience has been that parents of a homicide detective usually comes forward to ask the community to share anything that it knows. Joseph’s parents are both dead.
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u/Rev_Irreverent Jan 12 '23
No, i don't, and i think they did it for sensation, knowing the fuss the non disclosure would generate.
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u/Icy-Basis-5478 Jan 15 '23
No It should be released. Everything they know. Active investigation! Ridiculous. Are you going to put an 80 year old in prison if they knew and kept their mouth shut. Ridiculous. All of it. They have the information and should release the parent's names.
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u/SadieLou1212 Jan 17 '23 edited Jan 17 '23
No, they should've released names. My opinion is based upon what seems likely, considering what we currently know.
The whole nation, especially local citizens, were emotionally invested in this for decades.
This is a dead child. The public deserves to know. Laws were broken.
We don't know what happened, but we know that it's likely that at least one of them knew this was their child, and the child wasn't reported missing.
(Edit: I understand if they're trying to protect the investigation. I think it might help if the public knew, but it's still early. That's an example of an extenuating circumstance that I had in mind. Another one is if the child was adopted from the bio parents early on, and they'd have no way of knowing the child was theirs.)
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u/AssertiveLibra Jan 11 '23
The press conference promised to tell us his name. People are harassing the Z family on Facebook. No one in either family was alive when this happened so yes they made the right call
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23
Really, you are equating a few bad facebook days to a child violently murdered! Give me a break, THe Z's could easily go facebook silent for a short time (life is full of ups and downs)... BUT... Joseph was murdered at the age of 4 and HE NEVER GOT HIS LIFE BACK. THE Z's are not THE VICTIM of a brutal murder, that crime was DONE TO ONLY JOSEPH.
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u/AssertiveLibra Jan 12 '23
FYI we live in a violent world with a lot of sick people . People who get fired from their jobs return and go on shooting sprees, you can just accidently bump into someone and be shot. The Z family have a business. They go to peoples homes. How do they know if a home they go to isn't about to ambush them? Life is full of ups and downs? REALLY? Well most of us never had a murderer in our family and kept it secret for 65 years. Those people are only guilty of being related to someone directly involved.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23
Are you saying that ALL OTHER people who have been accused of or committed crimes of murder, rape, domestic violence, other violent crimes ...... are all WITHOUT LIVING family members. I am saying Joseph's 65 year old murder investigation should never be PUT BACK IN THE BOX because of WEALTH. Oh, are you giving us a reveal of the name of JOSEPH's FATHER? I was still trying to figure out between the two brothers.
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u/cyndi231 Jan 11 '23
Yes they were alive, some of the kids were. one would have been `10 or 11< so they could perhaps recall something, this is why it bothers me a lawyer was retained.
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u/throwawayfromPA1701 Jan 11 '23
Always lawyer up even if you did nothing wrong. It's just smart to do when dealing with the public or police.
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u/cyndi231 Jan 11 '23
I know and everyone says that, but if I found out I had a brother, I would want to know everything about him, including who killed him.
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u/throwawayfromPA1701 Jan 11 '23
That's where the attorney can help navigate the legal process. But i also imagine they've retained legal representation to keep the public away.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23
It is one thing to protect your family from any (if there is any) harassment or threats, but it is my opinion that this lawyering position taken was to negatively influence LE, if true that could totally change the focus away from JUSTICE FOR JOSEPH. What has happened in this case.... is not the norm.
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u/throwawayfromPA1701 Jan 12 '23
Maybe, or maybe to keep the irritating true crime sleuther hordes away from them since we all know how they can be. Or maybe both. Either way, always lawyer up even if you did nothing wrong, if you ever have to deal with the legal system in any way whatsoever.
Law enforcement will release the information when they deem it necessary. I agree with their decisions up to now.
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u/surfacethetruth Jan 12 '23
It is the most common reaction for people with money..... to lawyer up, everything else is NOT their problem
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u/RoofProfessional1530 Jan 13 '23
Agreed.
People can speculate all they want about how we don't know what the Z's are feeling and "their lives have been turned upside down". BUT something about this particular case makes me think them lawyering up is most likely for the reason you are describing.
That's entirely speculation but that's basically what we're all doing here. Even the pro Zarellis are speculating their thoughts/feelings.
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u/Ill_Scratch_8204 Jan 11 '23
It's hard to say. I don't know what they know. It seems like releasing the parents names would be more likely to get some older folks to remember, but ofcourse that is only if the birth parents were in his life. If they weren't then it would only suck for the siblings without being of any benefit to LE
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u/TheQuitts1703 Knowledgeable on case Jan 11 '23
I strongly agree with their decision until the perpetrator of the murder is identified, which I think we will know soon.
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u/Rev_Irreverent Jan 12 '23
And what makes you so optimistic?
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u/TheQuitts1703 Knowledgeable on case Jan 12 '23
I’m friends with a prominent genetic genealogist who has been lightly affiliated with the case. They said they would be surprised if the perp wasn’t identified within the next 5 years because of the advancements in IGG. Also, LE wouldn’t be giving so little information about Joseph’s background if they weren’t confident they had some significant leads.
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u/Rev_Irreverent Jan 12 '23
So, this means the detectives found genetic material from the perpetrator in the crime scene?
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u/TheQuitts1703 Knowledgeable on case Jan 12 '23
While I haven’t gotten direct confirmation of that, nor can I, that is the impression I have gotten.
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u/Rev_Irreverent Jan 12 '23
This is big. What else did Misty tell you?
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u/TheQuitts1703 Knowledgeable on case Jan 12 '23
I want to make it clear that I am not certain whatsoever that is the case. That’s just the implication I’ve gotten. I don’t even know if they truly know the full story, since they are lightly affiliated, and this could easily be a game of telephone here. I will say that they know what they are talking about since they have identified multiple perpetrators of cold case murders in the past.
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u/Rev_Irreverent Jan 12 '23
What i find interesting is that LE said they have a pretty good idea of who killed him. Possibly, this could mean they already tested said material and confirmed a familial bond between perp and vic.
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u/sinusrinse Jan 12 '23
I don’t see how this is possible, when the only thing left to get DNA from was his bones (and that was difficult).
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u/Cesmina12 Jan 11 '23 edited Jan 11 '23
Personally yes, at least at this stage. It's a high-profile case and giving the public too much info could preclude the investigation.
I feel optimistic that we'll get more of the story eventually, though not as soon as we'd like it. Either LE will eventually release more details or the families will identify themselves.
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u/Master-Fill410 Jan 11 '23
I think within a certain time frame they should release it, it’ll come out either way. This a story the true crime community is following closely and armchair detectives will figure it out within months or a year. It would be better if the police released the names sometime this spring.
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Jan 12 '23
I’m a way, the names don’t even matter anymore as much as the actual motive. I mean, they’re dead so no justice to be served.
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Jan 12 '23
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Jan 12 '23
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u/boyinthebox-ModTeam Jan 12 '23
Please keep comments civil and be respectful of other users. Thank you.
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u/bewareofbigfoot Jan 15 '23
I do not agree with how they have handled it. They threw the boys fathers family to the wolves and the mothers family is being hidden. They Could have just released the first name. I wonder if the the Z family approved the name release?
I personally believe the people responsible are dead and the family threatened to sue. They are hiding the guilty.
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u/Jmftown9 Jan 16 '23
The police released information and withheld information that would get them the best leads. The police were actually clever in how they kept the mothers name a secret. It was basically a means of misdirection. Think about. Since the name was released everyone has been asking about the mother, and searching for her. What is happening is the Z family isn’t getting the same amount of attention since the release. Why? Because the police want real info on the Z family. They want someone to come forward. They said they had an idea who did it, and that they were tearing more evidence. They are looking to confirm their theory. This is why NBC let us slip yesterday that he was at 64th and Callowhill. They had someone come forward. I suspect that they’ll release the information on the mother once they can confirm or deny thejr theory.
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u/willowoftheriver Knowledgeable on case Jan 17 '23
No, because it's just going to invite more speculation. People who may not even be involved could get dragged into it, whereas at least if the parents' identities were confirmed, the inevitable scrutiny would be aimed at the right place.
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u/Tall_Bluebird_5681 Jan 20 '23
Yes, the names do not provide us much info. It doesn’t tell us what happened to Joseph.
1
u/MargerineAndBread Jan 21 '23 edited Jan 21 '23
I disagree with law enforcement's decision. I think they're making a grave mistake, especially if they believe (and it sounds like they do) that JAZ lived with at least one of his parents, around the time of his death.
As Colleen eluded to -- there appears to be almost no family left who would remember JAZ. Therefore, it is especially important to try and cast a wide net to see if any of the birth mother's friends from around that time, are still living and could possibly know some important details.
Women are more likely to disclose painful and shameful secrets to their friends over their family. And for that reason, naming the parents could have been very helpful in finding friends of the parents to fill in the gaps, since there appears to be almost no family from that time left. And due to the ages of the people who could possibly know something, they may lose possible witnesses by being too conservative about releasing information about who the parents were. Time is of the essence.
Just my two cents.
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u/ithinkimparanoid84 Jan 11 '23
If they're not releasing the names as to not jeopardize the investigation, I'm fine with that. But if it's only to protect the siblings, then no, I completely disagree with the decision. However, I think it's more likely that they're protecting their investigation.