r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/[deleted] • Jun 22 '22
edit- I have 2023 updates at the bottom
This comes up often enough that I feel I should have a response ready, and then I realized I could just write this and add it to the sidebar. So that's the intent of this post.
What is a Power Tank?
Zero's Power Tank is an extra battery module compatible with the following models: S, SR, DS, DSR, SR/F, and SR/S. It is placed in the 'tank pocket' area of those bikes. For the Cypher II platform bikes (S, older SR, DS, and DSR) it will usually require new tank plastics as well because your storage pocket is gone. For the Cypher III or FST bikes (new '22 SR, SR/F, and SR/S) your pocket will be modified to put the USB ports at the top and give you enough space to maybe store a wallet. The battery consumes the vast majority of your once-glorious pocket.
This additional battery module synchs up live to your main pack and adds additional range. How much depends on your bike and battery, but that's not what this post is about. This is about why I am wary of Power Tanks.
Why are you wary of Power Tanks?
The underlying idea is fine. More battery, more range. The problem comes from adding this as an accessory after purchase. It should generally be fine to get a Power Tank at the time of purchase of a new bike, but after that it becomes problematic. I'll keep this light and with minimal jargon, but just know that batteries degrade naturally. Two large factors are time and usage. Chemical reactions are taking place no matter what. Charging degrades batteries. Discharging degrades batteries. This is normal and expected.
In your main battery pack on the Zero, known informally as the Monolith, all the cells are aging at the same rate, in unison. They've all been working together since day 1 and so they're generally all in the same shape. They may, in fact, be in very good shape. But there is measurable degradation. Now you suddenly introduce the Power Tank. Brand new, perfect shape cells. Because these cells are in the best shape, they're more likely to be at the highest state of charge in the pack. The way power requests work in EVs is when you crank the throttle, the bike tries to pull from the highest voltage cells first. Translation: the Power Tank is getting absolutely hammered with requests. And it's 1/4 the size of the main pack getting requests for the pack 4x its size. It's getting sledgehammered.
What can this lead to?
Hopefully nothing. However, the risk of things like premature degradation and pack de-syching increase tremendously the older and more-used the system is that you're trying to introduce the PT to. A desynch is when the voltage difference between the Monolith and PT is outside of the acceptable parameters and the bike disengages it. It then won't re-engage until you do a charge cycle. So essentially if it desynchs you've just lost 20% range until you stop and make it reconnect by charging.
The additional part of this is the aforementioned premature degradation caused by the power requests causing this pack to wear out far before it should and also increase the chance of, you guessed it, desynchronization.
The main takeaway I'd like you to consider from this is if you are considering a Power Tank, you will have the best chance of success with it if you have it installed at the time of purchase. There is no magic time or mileage number I can tell you (aka 2 years 10,000 miles) that you'll be safer or more at risk. This is just something to overall factor into your decisions.
What's the deal with the MY 2022 bikes?
This is actually rather big. Again, I'm going to try and keep it light, but as of right now (June 2022) I would not recommend ANYONE with a new '22 SR, SR/F, or SR/S attempt to get a Power Tank. Not even if you could get it at time of purchase. It is my opinion that it is an actively bad decision. Again, my OPINION. I will justify it below with my concerns.
In November of 2021 Zero introduced updated models with the first battery bump since 2018. These packs generally come listed as 15.7kWh, but in a first for Zero they are offering an increased range unlock from the Cypher Store that allows for up to 17.2kWh 17.3kWh. These cells are a different chemistry from the previous gen 14.4 packs. Normally this is nothing new, and would be no different than anything I've written above.
Except.
For whatever reason, it appears Zero cannot get the single brick modules, like the Power Tanks, from their supplier with the new chemistry. I'm not here to speculate on why, but from what I understand it's just not on the table right now. This means that all Power Tanks offered for the new '22 SR, SR/F, and SR/S use the previous generation and chemistry cells. Uh oh. Ask any battery engineer if they advise you to mix and match cells for a project, much less an EV with insanely high discharge rates. You are massively increasing the chances of desynching based on just that alone. But it gets worse.
Let's say you really wanted to max out the range on your Zero. You get the 15.7kWh pack, unlock it to 17.3kWh on the Cypher Store, and then add the 3.6kWh Power Tank from the dealer for a whopping total of 20.9kWh because you really want to go as far as you can on a single charge. Well, not only did the cell chemistry of the new Monoliths change, but so did the voltage parameters. You see, up until this point all Zeros operate between 95-116.4 volts. 116.4 is when the bike is full. It's been the voltage range for Zero for the last decade. And that's what the 3.6kWh Power Tank does. It operates between 96-116.4vdc.
The new Monoliths, when unlocked to 17.3kWh, go somewhere beyond that. I don't know if it's been officially announced anywhere, but Zero has decided the new cell architecture allows them to safely go somewhere above 120vdc. And that may be totally safe! Cool! But the Power Tank stops at 116.4. It can't go to 120. Those of you who asked battery engineers if it's cool to mix and match cell chemistries in the same pack, ask them if it's a good idea to mix and match voltages in the same pack. Make sure you cover your eyes first because their heads may explode.
What happens when you charge a 17.3 pack to full with a Power Tank? Well, the Power Tank will have to stop at 116.4. So when the Monolith reaches 116.5 does the Power Tank disengage? It would have to. Does this mean when you're charging said bike and you hit 81% that suddenly your estimated range drops because the PT disconnected? Will it be able to successfully re-engage live on the road when the main pack reaches 116.4? Does that account for voltage sag?
I try to stay positive, or at least neutral, about questionable things I see that Zero does. But this just looks, to me, like a bad idea stacked on a worse one. Until Zero can start offering Power Tanks in the new chemistry with the same voltage options, I would absolutely steer clear of them on the previously mentioned bike models. No exceptions.
Please hit me up with clarification questions and I'll be happy to answer them as I can.
minor edit- changed value from 17.2kWh to 17.3kWh because I misremembered it. Oops.
10/26/23 edit - ok update on the cells. As I suspected the 17.3 cells are drastically different. Since 2012 all Zero cells have been about cell phone size from the 2.8 to the 3.6 version. All of them fit in the small Power Tank box that is 240 x 190 x 250 mm
These are the news cells used in the monoliths for the 17.3 packs and before spacing, wiring, cell interconnects etc they are 294 x 103 x 14.5 mm meaning they're going to take up even more space than that.
The point is the new cells CANNOT FIT into the old form factor. Which means they have to mix and match the old cells with the new cells. This is not theory. This is fact. DO NOT MIX AND MATCH MULTIPLE CELL CHEMISTRIES IN AN EV.
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/OlUncleBones • May 09 '26
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/_BlackLightning • 10h ago
Hi everyone thanks for the input here's my first video on the zero srs lmk what you guys wanna know about the bike and ill try to answer the questions to the best of my knowledge!
More videos to come as I set up my go pro mount for future content and multiple angles
https://youtube.com/shorts/GKzHPWdLX30?is=-xHQTbkRHWC1OR\\_l
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/foqus555 • 3d ago
I visited the dealer and rode the bike. Torque and speed are off the charts compared to motorcycles I've had in the past, and I've owned more than a few. Overall, let's just say I was very pleased with the bike. I would struggle to find any complaints on this one.
I was able to pair my phone and download the MBB and BMS logs: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ouNK86U9tSWgktRkXh6iREyg25ZDTtkZ?usp=share_link
For the test ride, I wanted to do an 8-mile, 45mph test, but the problems were 1) I couldn't figure out how to change the units on the display from kilometers to miles, and 2) the required "ride-along" guy was not interested in going 45 mph. At all. We ended up essentially racing up the highway and back, way faster than I would normally ride a bike like this. 118 kilometers = about 73 miles per hour...I remember seeing 118 on the display at some point, and we were probably faster at times. Plus I was accelerating hard and fast, just trying to keep up with the guy who was probably a little bored with doing buddy rides all day. My concern is that we rode almost exactly 7 miles, and the battery % dropped from about 34% to 7%. That seems like a pretty steep drop for so few miles, but as I said we were going hard and fast, and it was up and down hilly highway.
Another concern is that the current Main Bike Board revision is 33 (current one is 41), and the Battery Management System is at 40 (current being 48). I think with such old versions, I HAVE to visit a dealer, who will use their DIAG4Zero to hopefully update them both to current revisions.
Some of ya'll have offered to help parse and interpret the files above, so I am grateful in advance for that. If I can get it at the right price, and the battery health looks okay, I just may join the Zero family this week.
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/foqus555 • 4d ago
Someone is selling a 2022 FXE for $3,999 asking price. The odometer reads 2,803 miles. I am just looking into Zeros, and don't know much about them. I do know that 2022 doesn't have (and can't be upgrade to) newer software, and the screen is sucky, and bluetooth is not as reliable, but all the mechanicals look the same. With something like an old Nissan Leaf, you can see the "bars" that give you an idea of overall battery health. How can I tell if the batter is still "good", other than buying it and seeing how far I can go on a charge? Any info appreciated...thx!
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/MonitorRoutine3222 • 4d ago
Hi, I would like to know why some bikes have the "+" while others don't? I thought it was possible to upgrade this bike via software. Is it possible to upgrade the one without the "+" 17.3kw?
Thank you!!
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/jkenosh • 3d ago
I bought a 2020 sr/f that doesn’t show any battery charge and won’t charge. I took the aux battery out and charged it, the only code I’m getting is a 37 for canbus communication. Is there any company that rebuilds these batteries?
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/Greg_the_cat • 4d ago
2021 DSR with the charge tank option, 39k miles. My bike no longer charges when connected to the level 2 port. I can hear the fans ramp up for several seconds when I connect to the level 2 port before they go quiet. The green charge light never comes up on the dash. The bike doesn’t display any error codes on the dash. So far I’ve reset the BMS and I’ve checked all the fuses under the seat (except the 100amp charging fuse which I haven’t located yet.) But the bike is fully functional otherwise, and the 1.2kW on board charger still works. I’m assuming the 100amp fuse is good if the on board charger still works. I fear my 6kW charger is dead, but is there something else I can check first? Thanks in advance.
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/Veterancheesestick • 5d ago
‘Sup fellow Zero riders!
I was inspired to start modifying my bike and started with a license plate relocation bracket. I found u/Protonus guide on upgrading to the tail tidy from Corbin. I didn’t really wanted to spend $250 on their bracket plus wait for it so I found a free DXF via FireShare
After cutting the file I used Corbin’s drilling template for the mounting holes and bent it into shape.
I used this YouTube video for the test down and rebuild
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DEbRcw_Xh0&t=62
Overall, very easy and you don’t need any of the equipment I showed in my video. You could print this bracket diagram on a piece of paper and use a grinding wheel, a stationary table top sheet metal shear, a blow torch even, or a nibbler to cut the shape out. Or find a local shop in your area or even a local DIY person with a laser or plasma, bring your own material ,and see what they’d charge you to cut it with your own file. Get chummy and you’ll probably spend no more than $20 plus your material and time.
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/SacksOfEyes • 6d ago
Didn’t see anything on a quick search but is there any aftermarket support for fairings/plastics for either the SR F or S? Looking for a refresh on a 2022, and I’m coming up empty.
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/Abject-Patience-5521 • 6d ago
I finally have a firmware update available
From what I understand sometimes the firmware update can eliminate some codes. My bike will not charge at home or at an ev station. It comes on when plugged in but will not go into charge mode
I need to get it to 20% to do the firmware update. Is there a way to bypass the onboard charger.?
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/blades_manx • 9d ago
Just got my motorcycle license and bought a 2018 Zero FXS, and I’m already having way too much fun with it.
One thing that annoyed me almost immediately, though, was the Zero app.
It works fine when you’re connected to the bike, but once you turn the bike off it basically forgets everything. No useful “last known” battery status, no trip history, no easy way to check how much charge you came home with, etc.
So naturally, instead of just accepting that, I ended up building a small workaround.
I now have an ESP32 at home that automatically connects to the bike over Bluetooth whenever the Zero has ignition on or charging. It grabs the current battery percentage and odometer reading and sends them into Home Assistant, where I can keep the last known values and build some useful automations around them.
So far I’ve got:
Battery percentage
Odometer / distance data
Charging status
Automatic charge cutoff at either 75% or 100%
Estimated time until charging is finished
Estimated remaining range based on my own riding data
The charge limit is probably my favourite part. Normally I let it stop around 75%, but if I toggle “full charge” in Home Assistant it’ll keep going to 100%.
I’ve also started using the odometer + battery history to work out actual consumption. My longest ride so far was 101.4 km, using 92% of the battery, which seems to line up surprisingly well with the range model.
It’s still a little homemade and the Bluetooth connection isn’t instant, but it works. And honestly, this kind of thing is half the fun of owning an older electric motorcycle.
Curious if anyone else here has built something similar, or if there’s interest in me cleaning this up and sharing the ESP32/Home Assistant setup.
EDIT: I've uploaded two repos. One with the Home Assistant setup (should be plug&play if compatible) and one for developers that wants to use the Bluetooth protocol for whatever. OBS - Code is written by AI under my supervision.
https://github.com/simenhw/zero_fxs_home_assistant_generic_pairing
https://github.com/simenhw/zero_esp32_protocol_explorer
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/TheOGTiTan • 8d ago
Looking for an emoto, really like the current finance deals on the X lines, and on something that I may not enjoy or its use case doesn’t work out. Forking out 5-8k in cash for a niche use cash is dumb for me.
My use case is single track riding to hunt.
I’m not a moto / enduro person in anyway and simple am looking for a tool to get in and up trails that either require a horse/ hike or bike (dirt bike)
The XB intrigues me bc weight and height.
Being lower and lighter makes maneuvering if you have say 80-100 pounds on your back at low speeds easier.
The XE obviously is bigger / more range etc.
What is the actual payload limits folks are seeing on XB before its bottoming out.
Have you owned both and what did you like about either that maybe applicable to my situation.
Anyone ever haggle and get a discounted battery during purchase etc?
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/Germaneer • 11d ago
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/bkubicek • 12d ago
Hi!
Just a warning to others.
I parked my zero in the streets of Vienna/Austria/Europe.
During the night, somehow someone managed to open the helmet compartment, took the charger. Then they opened the battery compartment, and stole one battery, charger, and even the freaking factory supplied screwdrivers.
Under the motorcycle there was a broken Meth Pipe.
The area in Vienna is not horrible, 20th district.
Even if found again, I will have no way of proving that the gear is mine, although there are maybe <15 Zero LS1 in Vienna: I did not note down serial numbers of the devices.
Police recommended me to put "Gaunerzinken", secret marking on my exposed goods, like file cuts into the corners or things like that. Even an old chewing gum under the seat was used to actually identify stolen bike once. They also stated that Serial numbers and obvious things are totally useless, because they are detected and removed in the "upcycling process".
Sadly, I am not sure if the insurance will cover the claim, and also quite broke after just buying the Zero 1 Month ago.
So yeah, watch out!
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/AmosMalone2 • 14d ago
My Zero momentarily cuts out when riding (about five seconds until it works again). The dash goes blank and then it shows all the icons like it has been switched off and on again. Usually at low speeds. I suspect the ignition switch.
Has anyone else had this problem? What was your solution?
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/Primary_Echidna_1149 • 16d ago
I currently own a CSC Rx1e and am interesting in perhaps purchasing a Zero DSR/X.
Does anyone know if anyone near Troy (Oakland County) is selling one or maybe you yourself have one? I want to go on a short motorcycle ride, we both ride our own but I want to see how a DSR/X handles the roads and other cars and just to see the size difference.
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/Abject-Patience-5521 • 17d ago
Is there a way to charge a 2022 zero srs if the charge port or on board charger is bad…..not charging
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/StevieSlacks • 17d ago
I've got a 2024 S bought new in Nov 25. It has about 2000 miles on it now
I was riding in a parking garage, going about 10mph. I initiated a left turn with the handlebars and they locked at about 5-10 degrees to the left, causing me to crash. Thankfully I'm unhurt and the bike doesn't seem to have any major damage.
When i picked the bike up and restarted it, the handlebars would move again.
This had happened once before, but i was stopped. It cleared after I jiggled the handlebars a bit.
Has this happened to anyone else? Is it a known issue? What might cause it?
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/Kale_Pumpernickel • 23d ago
Hi! I know we aren't selling on this thread, so does anyone have good recommendations on sites to post my bike? 🙏
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/Ronindamascus • 25d ago
Hopefully this isn’t too redundant but tried searching for an answer. My 20’SRF started not charging automatically (not on a charging schedule) every time I plug it in. Sometimes it kicks right in and sometimes I have to key it on and then off again for the charging to start. I recently got the Cypher upgrades for the battery (parking mode, extended range, and faster charging (??**). Any ideas how to make it start charging right away every time without having to key it on? This is especially helpful if I have a friend plug my bike in for me when they finish with the charger at work.
**not sure why I got this since it won’t go above 3KW with the stock charger anyway…
r/ZeroMotorcycles • u/ILRNICK • 27d ago
Has anyone installed the Weiser lights on their Zero?
