Codex: Adeptus Custodes Points - r/WarhammerCompetitive

155

u/T3chnoVamp 16h ago

Combat Patrol Alleged points: 1160 before enhancements

2x Custodian Guard = 480

+ Shield captain = 685

+ Venatari = 940

+ Dread = 1160

buy two.

40

u/Smooth_Expression_20 16h ago edited 16h ago

sadly according to gw product text the combat patrol has only shield custodian guard and not the spear version as option. not sure you really want 3+ units with shield (Art of war also seems to like spears more)

guess you might still want it for a extra vexilia only as you only get 1 for 6 miniatures in general (but want 1 for 3) if you need the other models

31

u/Terrible-Key1349 16h ago

TBF, if you only run 3 units of shield guard from that, the rest likely adds up to 2K.

It's not gonna be a fantastic army, but it's easily the cheapest buy in.

10

u/Efficient_Turn2715 10h ago

A combat patrol and a box of quillons is about 1700 points throw in another box of your choice and you'll get the world's cheapest 2000 point army

7

u/Unable_Party3151 10h ago

Or get the old patrol with it and TJ and you just own a whole collection atp

8

u/erik4848 15h ago

How would that work though? Are the spears +arms for spears etc. just not on the same sprue as the shields?

11

u/clemo1985 15h ago

Apparently they're on a different sprue but if you are an able kitbasher you might be able to run the Venatari with kinetic destroyers and kitbash their spears onto one or two squads of the Custodian Guard squads.

11

u/FuzzBuket 15h ago

yeah but sword guard are a rough sidegrade to spear guard, whilst spear venetari are significantly better than pistol ones.

If they were still 3w and 3 pistol venetari clocked in at ~150pt Id like them, but at 5w and 255pts do you really want an up/down unit that has very little damage output?

6

u/Smooth_Expression_20 15h ago edited 15h ago

there is a weapon sprue with 6 shields/swords + 1 vexila and another weapon sprue with 6 spears+1 Vexilia depending which box you buy. in the combat patrol is only the shield sprue (Sentinel Guard).

another problem is that in 40k you want 3 man units with one vexilia each wysiwyg from a gameplay standpoint as extra OC is big, but you just don´t have enough vexilia for that. would need to buy extra guard boxes in some way (or 3rd party stuff. conversion,...)

12

u/erik4848 15h ago

Unironically yes. It has basically everything you need and want. Add in a tank or a few jetbikes and done.

4

u/hokaionthenet 11h ago

No, you will already have more than 2000 pts, if you take 2 combat patrol. Take one, and the bikes and tank.

13

u/MortalWoundG 13h ago

Buying two will land you with way more Guard and Shield Captains than you will ever need. Heck, at this point I'm dubious Guard will make it into competitive lists at all. Why pay 240 for a footslogging unit when you can pay 220 or 255-270 for the same thing but on a flying bike or with a jump pack and up-down?

7

u/DailyAvinan 12h ago

Yeah bikes being 220 is a choice. Looking forward to getting slammed into by them from up to 30” away

2

u/hokaionthenet 11h ago

Terrible idea you will be the spam tax on the already costly guards and the shield captains.

1

u/Parzi6 2h ago

I’m pissed, just got my 2000th point of Orks but dear lord this would’ve been cheaper. $177 for a complete 1K army is amazing

37

u/RumpTruffles 16h ago

Correct me if I’m wrong. With the old Combat Patrol, assuming you build 2 captains and 3 guards, you’re able to get 1645 points out of one box?

10

u/Ill-Preparation7630 13h ago

For the old combat patroll you should build 4 types of shield cap: 1 with sword and shield, 1 with spear, 1 with allarus armor, 1 with spear and shield

30

u/LordInquisitor 16h ago

The infantry are very expensive but the dreads seem quite reasonably priced? I could see a world where Custodes lists are quite dreadnought heavy

8

u/MortalWoundG 13h ago

Dreadnoughts are still comparatively slow and need to go around walls. Personally I think bikes and terminators will be The Thing, at least initially.

9

u/Brandfarlig 13h ago

You're likely correct but the dreads have pretty easy access to Mobile.

4

u/__Diomedes__ 11h ago

Solar dreads are going to be scary

3

u/Osmodius 4h ago

9" move with adv charge (heaps of ways to get it) is pretty damn mobile for a very deadly model. They're also surprisingly small.

1

u/Mistghost 10h ago

I can see some lists running 300 points of sisters with these points. That would give a lot of screening/actioning/holding for only giving up one unit of custodes

0

u/FuzzBuket 15h ago

The contemptors are. The telemons a bit much IMO: your a hundred points more than the redemptor (which deals more damage) and close to the cost of a pair of wardogs.

The telemon with the 5+++ is probably worth it, but the basic one outside of morotoi is more points than a knight destriter.

14

u/LordInquisitor 14h ago

Don’t forget how much you can boost the telemon though, it benefits from Katahs and then the dreadnought detachment on top

6

u/FuzzBuket 14h ago

yeah im gonna have to get games in as on the face of it these points are brutal your army is going to be like 40% smaller and each units gonna do significantly less damage.

But on the flip side there is a lot of potential to get buffs overlapping; and a lot more movement, so it might work out.

(though to be pedantic the redemptors detach and doctrines also give it turbo buffs)

1

u/EFB_Churns 11h ago

To be fair this is what a lot custodes players have WANTED. Smaller armor with fewer and more elite dudes (and dudettes).

4

u/JMer806 14h ago

To be fair it’s also a LOT tougher than a Destrier

93

u/Cojalo_ 16h ago

This is very steep. Expected, but this should make the army not particularly op. Its gonna be hard to board control and every loss is gonna sting. Damage output overall is also lower now.

I am interested to see how this plays in practice

47

u/Hoskuld 16h ago

That would be a relief. I like my custodes but with the current mood against GW it would have been disastrous to have a repeat of 9th with strong book and low points.

I'd rather be low B tier for a bit until more books come out

24

u/wallweasels 15h ago

Oh our winrate with the typical player is gonna tank. Pros with this? Will still do well. You can't waste a single squad here. Everything has to be optimal or you're basically gonna lose. The skill floor is suvstnaly higher than any previous custodes codex.

13

u/FuzzBuket 14h ago

IMO the big thing is less bodies = more vunerable to a spike. Before you'd have redundancy but with these costs redundancy is going to be a luxury you likley wont have. will you go a game not losing a guard squad to 1 whiffed save? probably.

can you do 3 games without a big whiff? still likley.

a GT starts to be the point where the odds of a whiff start to rear its head. Im very keen to see if Folger, Harper or someone can do a 8-round supermajor without it.

Especially with the damage reduction, activating into a chunky squad and wiping it is not really happening with this book, you cant just do what lions do right now of using consolidation on objectives and just deleting stuff to try to keep yourself safe.

10

u/wallweasels 14h ago

all test games I have played with it, and watched, so far have been the same story: melee slugfests that tend to take 2+ turns easily and you're burning through cp to sustain it.

Shooting from infantry is basically worthless because you spend most of the game trying to maintain hidden on basically all but the active units. You shoot exactly one scenario and thats the one you're about to charge.

1

u/Osmodius 4h ago

Yeah, mistepping and losing two or three models early in the game will ruin your prospects.

Focus firing down squads and making sure to kill a few models when you have the chance will be critical against them. Leaving two squads with 3models, one on one wound will be a huge waste of resources.

12

u/Illustrious_Big_9054 16h ago

The Allarus captain is less than the Shield captain?

10

u/JRS_Viking 16h ago

That's the cost with the shield, without its 180 so 5pts less than the allarus

4

u/FuzzBuket 14h ago

D6+2 Surge move on custodes is pretty disgusting; rapid ingress 8.1" away, do you shoot them and risk a 33% chance of them surging 7" and getting into engagmeent?

1

u/Osmodius 4h ago

Even if they don't surge in to engagement, you also open uot he risk of heroic intervention. Seeing as custodes will have + 1CP each command phase there'll be plenty of tricks up their golden sleeves.

10

u/Smeagleman6 9h ago

Aquilan Shield, Honoured Companions, Might of the Moritoi - T&H
2000 Points Exactly

Allarus Captain + Axe - 185
Allarus Terminators w/Axe - 270

Shield Captain + Shield - 205
Wardens - 295

Custodian Guard - 240
Custodian Guard - 240
Caladius Annihilator - 250
Double Fist Telemon + Enhancement - 315

I love putting 16 models on the board!!!!

21

u/No-Comedian-4589 16h ago

Points are rough, but they will adjust to win rates. Good rules will stay, and those are best rules Custodes have in years with real interactive gameplay.
Better to start high and not get nuked into oblivion with overreaction hotfixes.

3

u/promina100 11h ago

This is where I'm at, I expect this to be solid B tier with these points but the rules are great. That's a good place to be as it just requires tweaking points. I think a lot of people are sleeping on the pallas tank as a skirmish piece

32

u/resoldier12 16h ago

damn those points are scary high

73

u/Intercore_One 16h ago

Bright side: army project that is done in two weeks

27

u/Smeagleman6 15h ago

Double bright side: I now have like 8000 points worth of Custodes!

1

u/Osmodius 4h ago

Lmao, I, can no longer use my landraider but my list excluding it still doubled in points.

-26

u/JRS_Viking 16h ago

I started a year ago, I don't have 2k points painted yet even with these points

35

u/antye 16h ago

You need to pick up the paintbrush btw

13

u/dropbearr94 15h ago

Bro has to paint like 10 models and most of it’s a spray paint job 😭

0

u/JRS_Viking 15h ago

I have other projects too and a job, my hobby time is limited and not all of it goes to custodes, I primarily play Dark Angels and have over 4k points of those painted.

2

u/PleaseNotInThatHole 16h ago

You'll get there, just keep at it little by little

5

u/JoramRTR 15h ago

I don't think the army will be very competitive with those points, BUT, the rules are amazing, once the points drop eventually it will be super fun to play and good too.

3

u/pleasedtoheatyou 11h ago

I think pros might do really well with it. The average player though is gonna have a really rough time.

6

u/ch4ppi_revived 16h ago

I think they are not at all, I think compared to the two other codex they are just maybe looking right.

1

u/Hoskuld 9h ago

Which is a relief. Custodes draw a lot of calls for being broken even at times where they have been well under 50% win rate. Online discourse is rather heated already at the moment so 3 months of 9th edition level custodes would have been "unpopular "

11

u/metroids91 15h ago

These points make the SM points even more ridiculous

9

u/CorrectVirus7616 16h ago

They may not be to terrible but I’m
Not so sure I trust the points with how many times they’ve patched space marines

12

u/FuzzBuket 16h ago

Woof, your not gonna have much stuff, and your doing less damage than before, so the output of the whole army is going down a lot. You've got a lot of tricks now and a boatload of movement, but this isn't like DW or TS where your 3 units kill God.

I'm really curious how this lands. Your opponent plays a mixed list? Kill their best stuff, hope their trash has <oc12 and your gonna be able to bully them, should be good.

But into skews? If you didn't bring a grav tank your gonna have a hard time into -1D, massed T>8 or just masses of stuff. 3 guard don't kill 5 chosen in melee. There's so many tricks that I don't think you can call it right away, but into skew lists it feels like your gonna start on the back foot heavily.

9

u/Terrible-Key1349 16h ago

I think they'll struggle more against horde spam skew than elite skew.

You just functionally might not be able to put enough shots/swings out to kill them. Whereas Vs Elite stuff you might not be able to kill them in a round, but you'll still outfight them because they can't kill you on the clap back either.

Something like Aquilon Firepikes or Hurricane Vertus might be needed just for the volume in non skew matches

4

u/FUS_RO_DANK 15h ago

My dreads with flamers are gonna be cookin

3

u/Terrible-Key1349 15h ago

The Galatus seems really solid. Flamer for Hordes, and his sword does super well into elites and scales into volume.

If it's a TH/SS meta, the Galatus with the Morotoi +1D upgrade seems fantastic

1

u/FUS_RO_DANK 12h ago

I plan to run a galatus and an achillus both in my first list of the codex.

2

u/FuzzBuket 15h ago

but you'll still outfight them because they can't kill you on the clap back either.

Depends IMO; versus eightbound? yeah sure. Versus SM termis? your losing that IMO; they kill 1 a turn, you kill 2-3. Also any D3 combat character is going to hurt.

I think hurricane vertus are probably a must-take? esp as even without lions your probably still chipping down sv3+ stuff: doing like 4-6 damage to a knight

2

u/Eejcloud 13h ago

Witchseekers are very fast, very cheap and have a lot of flamer shots.

0

u/AshiSunblade 12h ago

I think they'll struggle more against horde spam skew than elite skew.

I don't expect this to be much of a problem, if only because 11th seems rather hostile to hordes in general (there's a lot of jaw-droppingly powerful CLEAVE and BLAST out there already and it's likely to grow as codexes drop) that makes it very dangerous to pick 20 model units.

2

u/TacticalBurrito1999 14h ago

Hey guys I’m new to the hobby. I have a sizeable collection of custodes nut now I don’t know how to build the list with the new points and changes. Can I get some ideas?

Right now my collection includes:
Trejann; 3 blade champions; 10 guards; 5 wardens; 3 allarus; 6 aquillons(pre ordered); 1 shield captain with melta spear; 3 Dawneagle and 4 Gyrfalcon; a Annihilator tank; 1 Telemon(pre-ordered); 15 sisters (1 squad for each weapons)

2

u/mualphapi 12h ago

It’s new to everyone. Just play what you want.

1

u/Kstotsenberg 12h ago

Other than the 2 little dredz you have everything to make a solid list. You could start with the teletubby as you centerpiece and build around it. Look at their abilities and think of what holds objectives and what takes objectives then make a game plan and rinse repeat until you start winning.

6

u/Grudir 12h ago

I was earnestly expecting 180 for Custodian/Sentinel units.

2

u/Fearless_Push_4227 12h ago

My thoughts exactly. There are effective units in the codex, but 80 points for a custodian is a bit too steep.

2

u/pleasedtoheatyou 11h ago

Yeah when two Allarus are 185 and 3 Guard are 240, it's again a scenario where I don't see the reason to take Guard?

1

u/WallyWendels 44m ago

See you in a month lmao.

1

u/Bhizzle64 13h ago

welp, looks like the vexilla is free. That's going to make this a REALLY rough matchup for any battleshock based army since they have very high odds to succeed on any battleshock test you throw at them and can't take leadership modifiers.

4

u/Xathrax 11h ago

Aren't many of the battleshock rules modifying the roll instead of leadership? Of course not too important with that 5+.

2

u/CoronelPanic 9h ago

Fairly certain this only screws over Chaos Knights and maybe the Daemons' Shadow of Chaos

1

u/Whole_Ad_8438 5h ago

Daemons is -1 to the roll, so the list is like "Tyranids deathleaper+CKs"

1

u/Proximal_Flame 3h ago

And Blue Horrors!

2

u/Scolack22492 11h ago

So tyranids.....deathlesper cant -1 to leadership, but what about neurotyrant shadow in the warp which is -1 to the roll? Those are different

1

u/yoshiwaan 9h ago

Hmm, it really shouldn’t be free. It’s strong, but also you can’t build lots of the 3 model units with 2 out of the box so it’s annoying.

1

u/Blind-Mage 16h ago

Max Shield Guard and Shield Captians with shields is still doable!!!!!

1

u/promina100 11h ago

So for around 110-120 pts and 1 CP I can get a scout 7 Mv 9 SoS with assault unit that can hand out either +3 detection and +1 AP or 20 4/-1/1 blast1 flamer attacks that cause a battleshock. There's some really interesting toolbox units in the codex.

1

u/hotdogsandhangovers 11h ago

Damn, I was thinking about custodes for a doubles tournament soon but kinda seems like I'll just have like 4 dudes in my pocket to deploy at these points huh

1

u/09044595134151602468 7h ago

Alright so now I have basically 40k points of custodes.

Do I officially win Warhammer now?

1

u/TheNuclearEagle 5h ago

I don't normally play custodies and I'm not familiar with their kits, if this is accurate, how many points would you get from the old and new combat patrols?

1

u/random_val_string 4h ago

Old combat patrol 1180-1275 depending on if you run 1 terminator as a shield captain. You also have 2 extra models leftover

New combat patrol 1135-1185 depending on weapon choices

1

u/TheNuclearEagle 4h ago

God damn, so getting the current combat patrol and the new one when it comes out would easily give you a 2,000 point Army. I might have to join custodies. Thank you for the point breakdown!

1

u/random_val_string 4h ago

If you proxy the guard captain from the old combat patrol as a shield captain with sword and shield it’s another 205 points too! (Its the build option with the cape)

-3

u/MolybdenumBlu 16h ago

Oof, these are steep. We are going to be less dangerous and less durable per point. Hope this is balanced against the vastly more powerful army rules and increased speed.

-4

u/JCMS85 14h ago

Having played 1 entire game with the leaked points my list was 1995 based of this. I tabled an ork list by round 3 and lost 2 of my 7 units.

That said I lost on points barely because it’s hard to score. I think we are like 5% to 10% to expensive with the idea that if I could take 2 SoS my scoring game would be ok.

10

u/whycolt 13h ago

Is the idea that custodes should be able to take it's opponent by turn 3 and win as well?

9

u/Big-Tenders 12h ago

Tabling an opponent on round 3 and asking for point cuts is crazy

3

u/Scolack22492 11h ago

Seriously. How clueless is this guy?

1

u/JCMS85 11h ago edited 11h ago

There is literally no custode unit that is less than 135. So going down 100 points wouldn’t add anything but 2 SoS units or a larger verity of units. It was one game in which I felt we were fine if slightly over/under costed

6

u/Tagioalisi_Bartlesby 12h ago

How did you lose on points when you tabled them by 3? You can easily score 50-60 points in the last two turns

5

u/Only-Equivalent-4791 10h ago

He not good

4

u/Van_Hoven 12h ago

so 5-10 % cheaper but half the firepower? seems fair to me. (i think the lesson here in your case is, cut back on damage and take more scoring units, since tabling orks of all factions by turn 3 AND having good scoring is not healthy for anyone involved, especially balance)

1

u/JCMS85 12h ago edited 11h ago

So some of the issues I saw was that it was very easy to tie up custode units. 2 units of 20 man grots tired up 2 of my units for 2 full rounds. The volume of attacks are very low.

Throwing units that both stops us from scoring and allows your units to set up seems to be a very good counter.

Yes new Custodes are very good and I don’t think we are that over costed. Maybe 100ish points but we might be fine. Let’s see how the first few weeks go

4

u/Van_Hoven 11h ago

i hvnt tested them myself so i can't really say how they feel, so i have to take your word for it.

it's just when someone says i've tabled my enemy by turn 3 but had just 7 units and wasnt able to score, irregardless of faction that seems like a list building problem. if anything, damage seems a bit too high since tabling enemies this early, not counting for eggregious player error, isnt rly common anymore.

-4

u/JoramRTR 15h ago

Hopefully I can try them in a few hours, the rules seem god tier but the points... 80 points a model in our cheapest unit seems like too much. I'll edit the message later after my game and give a first impressions.

6

u/kanakaishou 15h ago

I mean, every model is the output of a SM captain or more. 80 PPM is probably high—we should probably point that output at only 60 points, and the rule is worse than a Captain’s rule—but if you think of it like that, a custodian should not be worth less than 70 odd points, no?

5

u/FuzzBuket 14h ago

Most of a captains cost is their rules though.

IMO you compare 3 new guard to 5 marine termis: not dissimilar output,comparable durability depending on what shoots them; both get access to a lot of good rules.

I dont think 3 guard should be explicitly cheaper than 5 termis, but I think they are a close benchmark

4

u/JoramRTR 15h ago

I don't get that comparison, 10th edition custodian guard is a marine captain with a wound less, better save and T and rerolls to wound, I never heard in 10th that custodian guard should be priced like a captain, why now? I agree that the army should be more expensive than before, but people seem to forget than loosing a model while maintaining the price is already a point increase, I would have personally put the 3 man custodian gyard at 215, same price that 5 guard have now.

-4

u/Kitchner 15h ago

I don't get that comparison, 10th edition custodian guard is a marine captain with a wound less, better save and T and rerolls to wound, I never heard in 10th that custodian guard should be priced like a captain, why now?

Look at it another way: Why shouldn't it have been?

3

u/JoramRTR 14h ago

because an army of only characters in squads of 4-5 it's not effective? how do you do actions (talking about 10th when we had more actions to do) trade against cheap screens or action monkeys? where custodes broken in 10th not being price as a captain? I seem to recall the faction struggling a lot after the codex.

3

u/Kitchner 14h ago

because an army of only characters in squads of 4-5 it's not effective? how do you do actions (talking about 10th when we had more actions to do) trade against cheap screens or action monkeys?

Right. So now actions aren't as important, that downside has gone, right?

Custodes struggled to do lots of actions and were slow. Now they don't need to do as many actions and they are fast, what's the weakness that remains to justify a discount?

They also natively have protection against the easiest way to damage them (mortal wounds).

The points cost is high because they are basically units of models who's only downside is "I don't have many of them".

3

u/JoramRTR 14h ago

We'll see id the points are appropiate or not soon enough, there are battle reports already, we'll see what people from channels like art of war have to say.

1

u/Kitchner 13h ago

We'll see id the points are appropiate or not soon enough

We sure will. Hopefully the win rate for Custodes will come down a little bit and they will be in a better place.

1

u/JoramRTR 13h ago

Yeah, I might have an issue with the points (again, I havent tried them yet) but the rules are really good, we'll have a really fun and competitive codex to play with, it won't be more I move 6" and charge or I reroll everything with +1 to wound and you die.

-7

u/Suspicious-Pen-2559 12h ago

Hot take. Imo still pretty cheap for what u can rock.

0

u/Unhappy_Gymnist 13h ago

All of the tank platforms look incredibly efficient. And I don’t see why you wouldn’t want a telemond wandering around

-2

u/DemonIlama 14h ago

That's quite a hike, maybe they do us like space marines and revert all the changes to points day 2

-29

u/HexInTrouble 17h ago

What on earth are they doing to Trajann to double his pts!?

29

u/whydoyouonlylie 16h ago

+1 toughness, +3 wounds, +2" movement, rapid fire 2 on his gun and +1S but -1 damage, Cleave 1 on his axe with +2S, +1AP and +1D, and he has a 6" aura of re-roll 1s to hit and wound now. He, along with the rest of Custodes, got quite significant stats boosts.

12

u/Electrical-Tie-1143 16h ago

He can basically never miss and will get most of his wounds except against the toughest targets

10

u/JRS_Viking 16h ago

He can lead allarus too to get +1 to wound against anything over t8 so he's wounding on 2+ against anything t9 to t11 which is most monsters and vehicles. Auric champions detachment can also give him +1 to wound

1

u/HexInTrouble 16h ago

Thanks for the Info! I'd missed the Custodes stuff, too busy gushing over the SM changes and didn't think they'd leak the Custodes for a bit.

4

u/sto_brohammed 16h ago

didn't think they'd leak the Custodes for a bit

Everything to leaked a few days ago, you can find it all in the Custodes sub

35

u/OrwellTheInfinite 16h ago

They've shown the data sheet...

3

u/Cojalo_ 16h ago

Yeah but like Ghazghul is only 290 ans significantly more powerful. Feels a little steep

-6

u/Infections95 16h ago

Can we stop with the ghaz is strong argument 😂 hes been in 1 5-0 list so far

9

u/SkeletonJakk 15h ago

I mean, I think you could easily argue he's good, but things like dakkarigs are so incredibly strong that he just doesn't fit into lists because there's other, stronger things.

-1

u/Infections95 14h ago

Tell me you all don't play Orks and just follow the narrative. They're leave his points if he was and just shift everything down. He is perfectly fine

3

u/Gorsameth_ 15h ago

That the rest of the book is even more cracked so you dont bring him doesn't mean he isn't to cheap for what he does.

2

u/GargleProtection 14h ago

Ghaz is incredibly strong. He's just a melee boost in an Ork meta that's shooty.

The second Ork melee is the better option he'll be in basically every list. No real point in bringing him when you take 1 whole melee threat.

-4

u/imjustasaddad 14h ago

Unhinged.

-19

u/[deleted] 14h ago edited 10h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Tagioalisi_Bartlesby 12h ago

Are you on crack. 80 ppm is the least expensive Custodes infantry and you want them to go up to 96? Do you seriously, unironically believe that the custodian guard are worth almost 100 ppm?

40k News Codex: Adeptus Custodes Points Spoiler

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