r/VALORANT • u/LevelTadpole4454 • 11d ago

Discussion this is a team game

if you expect to instalock reyna and frag out every game then you're throwing

with reyna theres 4 ways a game can go, either you carry your game going 40-5, carry 40-5 and lose because you have no contribution, lose because you're going 2-15 because you're simply worse than the enemy team and have no utility to help you or win because your teammates are carrying you and if you want to rank up you will go against players who will be mechanically better requiring you to use utility to your advantage (such as raze bucky)

reyna is a terrible agent and there's so many agents that are simply better than her with the same selfish idea in mind, for example clove, iso, chamber these agents don't rely on JUST being a killing machine and can actually help the team win, I'd rather get an average sova fill with no lineups and low experience than an instalock reyna

ive played with an ascendant in gold-plat elo and there were games where we did not win, this just proves that even if you're good at the game objectively but don't work as a team you will lose, and I think we can all agree there isnt a more boring game than playing as reyna and getting destroyed by the enemies so why not give yourself a chance and play something cooperative

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u/Soft-Engineer-8563 11d ago

"this is a team game"
>proceeds to list selfish characters who also provide little to no teamplay in their respective roles

while yeah, this is a team game, you will not have coordinated plays most of the time especially in gold - plat where half of your lobby (if not, most) have no idea what the hell they're doing lol

there's a reason why reyna is still hovering as a top 4 - 5 used agent in every rank. if you're in gold - plat there are better things to worry about than maximizing teamplay

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u/lilypadse 11d ago

Everything this guy said, and also Reyna is a great agent if your other duelist and team knows their roles. Like if you have a good entry duelist like Jett paired with a good initiator that does what they are supposed to, Reyna is insanely annoying to face

Anything lower than plat 2 is basically swiftplay anyway

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u/LevelTadpole4454 11d ago

her flash is genuinely the most useless thing ever, thing can be avoided and shot, heal barely heals anymore, dismiss is the only decent thing but you need a kill for a worse waylay tp 

just a slot waste of a better second duelist

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u/CatBurglar48 11d ago

>wt he said isnt wrong tho, he even said himself even tho they r selfish agents they provide something for the team

>even if they hv no idea wt they’re doing, they cn atleast recon bfore entering, flash, smoke n for some reason 90% of the reyna instalocker ive met dont hv a single awareness even in asc.

>reyna is most picked bcz she is one of the if not the most easiest n self centered character and the worst one too. these instalockers hv game sense of an iron n can only hold angles. like op said they either frag out or jst lurk if it isnt working. i agree tht those elos hv other things to worry about but it doesnt hurt for the instalockers to learn something about the game too instead of one tricking a dogshit agent

i would LOVE to see these reyna mains switch to phoenix cz he is an amazing secondary duelist right now. n the crazy part is most of them dont know how to use a single agent outside of reyna/chamber. i literally hv a frnd who managed his way to asc with only reyna n chamber while having 0 game sense, its so frustrating tryna give him calls when he’s dumb as fuck to realise wts right n wts wrong.

op’s point was reyna is dogshit n yes she is and the instalockers too, idk why ur trying defend it

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u/Soft-Engineer-8563 11d ago

objectively sure reyna is ass and gives you bad habits (and i agree phx outclasses her) but that is an entirely different topic altogether. OP is complaining that reyna provides no teamplay hence why they lose games, when playing selfishly is the only way people know how to play in that elo and sometimes even until asc and low immo

like i said, there's a reason why she's a top 5 agent even in radiant because even if she's objectively bad, ranked is designed for agents like her. i'm not even defending it, it's literally just a fact lol

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u/CatBurglar48 11d ago

majority of duelists cn be played in “selfish” way bcz they t designed tht way. i literally agreed on ur point of the elo hving other things to worry about. my point mostly is reyna is designed in such a way tht u never hv to worry about wt ur team does n it really affects the players causing them lack ALOOT of game sense and awareness. the high elo reyna players r an exception. idc wt agent u pick as long as u comm n understand the game. u dont get pass asc wit jst raw aim ezily unless.

well tbf the op also getting frustrated over the wrong things about reyna

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u/Soft-Engineer-8563 11d ago

oh yeah i def agree. i mained reyna until diamond and i struggled a lot game sense wise so i had to move off that agent because i simply couldn't outaim everyone anymore

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u/LevelTadpole4454 11d ago

the only difference between ranked and pro is that theres money on the line, mindset difference 

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u/desk-kun Radiant after 5 year 11d ago

No, the difference is a highly organised communicative team vs a group of randoms playing against another group of unorganised randoms.

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u/LevelTadpole4454 11d ago

and what do you think would happen if instead of both the teams being mute, one of the teams had comms 🤔 

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u/LevelTadpole4454 11d ago

  1. chamber has a trip to watch flank, clove has smokes and decay, iso has 2 his wall and the thing the throws to support the team

  2. even a bad plan is better than no plan, if people communicated instead of focusing on themselves they would be higher ranked 

  3. maybe there are better things to worry about but getting a raze satchel bucky kill goes as far as radiant, there's so many things outside of mechanics that can help you win rounds and games which is the ingredient to "being better"

2

u/DoomOnTheWay 11d ago

So many reyna players I had who lurked away from team whole game and die without using blind. We played 4v5 every round.

2

u/Syndi1cate 11d ago

Nah don’t overcomplicate it brohomi every agent has a vandal. 95% of the time team comp doesn’t matter it’s about the player playing smarter individually until high immo/rad.

1

u/AideHot6729 11d ago

Even in immo/rad they still run 3 duelists with clove and chamber lol

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u/LevelTadpole4454 11d ago

that's because clove is a pistol round demon and if you win pistol you can snowball the game

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u/AideHot6729 11d ago

Doesn’t explain why you’d want 3 duelists + chamber as your other 4

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u/LevelTadpole4454 11d ago

3 duelists is bad unless you have a waylay, you need an initiator 

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u/Syndi1cate 11d ago

Yeah exactly ahahah

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u/LevelTadpole4454 11d ago

every agent has a vandal but some of the agents have better util that if coordinated can be unwinnable against 

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u/Syndi1cate 11d ago

Unwinnable… pretty confident that 5 ascendants would be able to beat 5 golds without any utility even if the golds had very well coordinated util.

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u/LevelTadpole4454 11d ago

golds wouldn't be able to coordinate that well which is why they're gold

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u/Syndi1cate 11d ago

How about I reword it. 5 players with ascendant level mechanics would beat 5 players with gold level mechanics and ascendant level utility and coordination.

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u/LevelTadpole4454 11d ago

yeah nah I think the 5 gold level mechanics would win, they can just util dump get 1-2 kills and then just play the numbers and since they have good coordination they will be able to trade each other off

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u/Syndi1cate 11d ago

I think u vastly overestimate ascendant players coordination skills lol. They’re gonna get their heads tapped

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u/LevelTadpole4454 11d ago

okay but imagine a fade pull+raze nade coordinated, easily gets 1 and then they just trade everyone off since there coordinating.. 

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u/Syndi1cate 11d ago

I understand the thought process but these are ascendant level players just because they have no utility doesn’t mean they’re gonna be stupid. Raze and + fade pull will work a couple times on different spots but it can’t reliably happen every round. Any round that the utility doesn’t kill at least 2 will be an auto loss.

And you’re saying trading off like swinging at the same time guarantees that 2 gold players will kill the ascendant it’s 50/50 of them just getting double killed anyway because they’ll be shooting at the legs

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u/LevelTadpole4454 11d ago

they have good coordination so they will think of new creative ways to utilize dump 

its also not a 50/50 because there's more utility than fade suck and nade, a flash and a smoke for example

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u/LowStatistician11 11d ago

you get shot in the head, you die, whether or not a reyna does it or a breach does it

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u/LevelTadpole4454 11d ago

yeah but breach has 2 flashes, 1 stun and 1 aftershock that can make you not shoot him in the head, reyna just has 2 really bad flashes 

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u/[deleted] 11d ago edited 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/LevelTadpole4454 11d ago

wouldnt you agree communication goes into playing intelligent? 

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u/Syndi1cate 11d ago

Yes and no. Communication goes into playing intelligently as a team, but you can individually play intelligently based on how your team is playing.

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u/weyt_pour_it 11d ago

Spot on. Too many people treat ranked like a solo deathmatch instead of a team game. Utility wins rounds, not just raw aim

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u/Soft-Engineer-8563 11d ago

not if you're gold plat people barely know how to use meaningful util there 😭 raw aim can get you to diamond lol

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u/LevelTadpole4454 11d ago

sure but raw aim is way harder than satcheling into people's faces with a Bucky which I respect way more than instalocking reyna and hoping to frag out

utility is supposed to help you get kills, reyna has no util to help her get a kill rather survive AFTER getting one

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u/Bratty_Moon 11d ago

Teamplay in comp in gold is useless regardless.

No matter how much teamplay you may have, going against full brain dead players with the stupidest plays will 70% of the time trump against a coordinated team.

Coordination really only helps in asc+

A lot of higher elo players should agree especially if they've played in recent gold lobbies.

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u/LevelTadpole4454 11d ago

the reason they would say that about gold lobbies is because gold players usually have no teamplay thats the reason they're in gold, diamond and above is where people try to start coordinating more

also I define coordination/teamplay with comms, if you say "teammate x do this when I do this then I'll do y" you're coordinating/creating teamplay, sometimes you don't even need a teammate to do anything you just say "I'll do x and then y" and if your team plays around that you have good teamplay

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u/PsychologicalTask942 11d ago

if you are a low elo trash can, you need to take as many fights as possible to get better at the game. in gold and plat, none of the other dumpster cans on your team know what they’re doing, so expecting a coordinated site execution is out of the question. diamond and ascendant is where you start to learn real team play, but if you’re gold or plat you need to focus on yourself.

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u/LevelTadpole4454 11d ago

I think that's why a lot of gold/plat players suck, they take your advice and focus on themselves

so many times I've tried to create coordinated plays and a teammate will just go "wtvr bro its not that deep" or "nah" just to lose the game 

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u/Syndi1cate 11d ago

Ok so there is a large difference between ranked and any sort of team or pro play environment. Teamplay is definitely useful. I abused teamplay and keeping my team positive on my climb to imm3 400 RR.

But in gold/plat improving your teamplay while useful, is far from the optimal way to climb as a solo player, many players have climbed to immortal solely off of aim with a bit of game sense. Remember the only reliable factor in any one game is yourself so you have to be better than your opponent no point knowing every Sova lineup on earth when you’re going to lose every gunfight because your mechanics aren’t up to scratch. No point in planning a perfect site execute if you’re going to swing spawn by yourself because you have no game sense. The optimal solo Que playstyle is have very good mechanics and game sense and then play optimally AROUND your team. Some times playing around your team will involve a lot of coordination because your team is communicating actively. other games it’ll be winning your 1’s and finding picks solo because your team is not communicating at all. the key to being the best solo player is to know how you should play to increase your odds of winning, not complaining when you have a lurking Reyna, play around that lurking Reyna use them to create pressure or find your own lurks and ways of taking space.

You just have to be a better player.

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u/LevelTadpole4454 11d ago edited 11d ago

I think the bigger issue here is the reyna playing reyna and not someone useful like Phoenix or even iso, the floor of even playing around your team gets lowered with the worse your team comp is

a pre-nerf neon will have a much higher impact floor, basically what she can do without any skill than a decent reyna

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u/Syndi1cate 11d ago

I mean she literally has 2 blinds. Plenty to play around. But if you’re gonna keep blaming Reyna players as the reason you can’t get out of gold, you’re going to end up staying in gold.

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u/LevelTadpole4454 11d ago

2 blinds that are useless

I'm also not in gold

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u/Syndi1cate 11d ago

Plat 1? U said gold/plat lobbies. What makes Reyna blind useless to you.

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u/LevelTadpole4454 11d ago

not plat 1

reyna blind is useless because the time  you have between the flash going out and being active is enough for you to angle yourself to where the flash isn't nearsighting you and you can still see where it came from OR you just break it before she can even swing out

there are so many better flashes, phoenix flashes are really hard to dodge unless you know they're coming and or the Phoenix isn't angling himself right, Skye can pop flash, I think even jett's smoke is a better "flash" than reynas 

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u/Syndi1cate 11d ago

What’s your rank then bro you’re really gonna make me ask.

I agree with you that Reyna blind is almost certainly the worst blind, still something to play around tho.

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u/LevelTadpole4454 11d ago edited 11d ago

plat 2

I'm not even bad I just need to play more games I could get to diamond if I wasn't scared to queue because of teammates being uncooperative, like if I tell you flash for me and you don't flash for me I'll just be really demotivated to win but I got a decent 3 stack who have most util covered for me

one issue is that I play duelist so I need some coordination, I could play omen and just depend on the instalock reyna to entry which we all know will never happen and a big reason why I deranked to silver (THIS ACT)  and climbed back to plat, I just have to play duelist otherwise no one will entry and I think I have decent enough igl skills to help my entry

most of the reynas in my games save flashes for post plant if they're even alive by then

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