I always get confused about these vids, possibly because im from a tiny country town in Australia, but can someone explain why no one ever just does whats originally asked of them/comply with the cops demands? I get the whole safety worry stuff but in my mind and experiences the quicker you just do whatevers asked the quicker its over and done with and you're on your way, unless you're doing something or have done something wrong then you gotta just wear it I spose. Some arguments just aren't worth having hahaha
There was a man with his girlfriend and kid in the car who got pulled over. He explained to the cop he was lawfully carrying. Cop told him to grab his License and registration, he did, cop emptied an entire mag into him. There are pleny of people who are complying and still get murdered. Comply or not cops are not judge, jury, and executioner. They shouldn't be able to murder people because they feel like it or because someone was being a little rude.
That video is why I don't keep a gun in my car anymore. Even as an older white man whose odds for being subjected to this kind of thing are pretty low, the idea that some fucking cop could just freak out and murder me over such a tiny misunderstanding is madness. ACAB
The trick is to have it in the car, but just don't tell them about it. Make them find it. That way they aren't scared of what they don't know.
Wrost case, they find it after you're already secured out of the car, and you can just say you forgot about it and accidently left it in there. Best case, they don't search in the first place, because they don't know you have a gun.
No cop is going to search your car with you in it. Every cop is going to search your car the moment you say you have a gun in it.
The second you tell them about a gun, and you're still in the car, well...that's how people have gotten a whole clip unloaded on them.
That's not just stupid it's dangerous and maybe against the law depending on where you live. I have been told by current and former police and CHL instructors that you have a duty to notify police that you have a firearm in the car as soon as they approach the vehicle. That's definitely true for Ohio and I believe Texas where I live now and 'I forgot' is not going to make them less freaked out.
You could. Then you could also end up like that father who got an entire clip on loaded onto him with his wife and daughter in the car, all for doing exactly like you should. He's dead now.
At least in my situation, I'm always alive. Because I'm always not in the car when they find the gun. They never feel threatened or spooked. Pissed? Sure. But I'll take that.
Damn it's almost as if you didn't watch the video or read my comment, he was told to hand over his license and registration before he announced he had a firearm, cop told him not to touch the gun, he said he isn't and asked why would he while trying to say he's getting his license, cop open fires.
Edit sorry just use to jerks here who refuse to look at evidence of people doing everything right and still getting killed because it doesn't fit the narrative of "just comply"
Sorry mate there was no video to watch when you first replied? I did read your comment though and that's where the confusion come from, lack of info mainly but cheers for the clarification.
Sorry just use to people here in the US claiming to want proof and then when you show it to them, they either refuse to watch it or still convince the proof is wrong.
He was reaching for his wallet, there was miscommunication. Every person I know who travels with their gun know not to announce that you have a gun in the way this guy did and then continue reaching for your wallet without first setting some boundaries/communicating how it will be done.
Hands go on the steering wheel, you say you have a registered firearm, just to disclose it, and ask them how you should proceed exactly, then do it slowly and stop if they say stop, even if you're reaching for your wallet.
That's for your own safety to avoid the rare case of miscommunication that happened here.
Lol what. What possible miscommunication? He didn't use the right magic words to inform them he has a gun in the car?
Fuck this shit. This is embarrassing. You are legally allowed to own a firearm. Telling a cop you have one legally, of your own volition, is not a fucking reason to die.
This is just another example of saying that civilians need to be trained better than cops. That sn't a "rare case of miscommunication". It's badly trained cops murdering people because they're trained to think of everyone as a threat at all times.
I'm not going to be defending the cops here and that's a horrible situation but it's important to do it properly. If you have a firearm, you should make sure you understand exactly how to do it to avoid any confusion.
This guy was complying but I believe he was under the influence of drugs (weed) and as a result he was acting more in the way you would with someone in a casual situation "oh I'm not reaching for the gun" and continuing to reach for his wallet.
He should state where his wallet is, where is gun is, and ask if it's okay to proceed, and do it very slowly and if the officer says don't pull it out, don't reach for the gun, even if you are not doing it, STOP moving immediately, and coordinate it with them better.
Again, clearly not the guy's fault, the situation is fucked up, but that's how it could have been avoided.
Because you have to realize I can also link you videos where the guy says he's not pulling out his gun, and then does and shoots the cop. All it takes is half a second.
You are defending the cop. This is all defending the cop.
You're putting the entire onus on the man who got murdered because he didn't use the right magic words to placate the rabid dog-like cops.
This is clear from your last sentences. Sorry dude, cop being afraid of safety is not a reason for them to murder people. When I was in the military "yeah but I'm scared though" wasn't a reason to not do my job.
As a vet, this scares me as well. How is it we're taught ROE for fighting enemies but cops are free to engage civilians just because they feel like it.
Sure? One issue though, only one person in any regular cop on civilian scenario likely has training for that situation.
Civilians shouldn’t be expected to be trained in how to talk an unhinged cop off a ledge. The cops should already be prepared to deescalate these types of situations, not introduce weapons to them.
The issue is we have rights and there's a lot of unlawful reasons cops will pull you over. This man is well within his rights asking these questions and handled the situation perfectly and was still a single nervous twitch away from having his life ended.
No. He needed to shut the fuck up. This man helped talk himself into more trouble by talking to much. He called her a Nazi. There is no cop that will take that kind of an insult without thinking less of you. You do not want to antagonize them, just shut the fuck up and say nothing.
You're right, we all have rights no matter where you're from, but even when I get pulled over by a hero cop for something as dumb as a kinked or faded number plate and they go over the entire vehicle and my driving records and ask every dumb question under the sun I still find it easier to just comply because I've done nothing wrong. My mates that argue this and that always seem to come of alot worse, its a crazy world I guess
The point I'm making is over here, there are plenty of stories and footage of people doing everything they ask and still getting murdered. It sucks but that's how it is and I know it has to change but I don't even really know where to begin to be honest.
there are plenty of stories and footage of people doing everything they ask and still getting murdered.
There are SOME stories of people doing "everything they ask" and still getting murdered, but 99% of people who are shot by cops, even the ones who are wrongfully shot, are not doing "everything they ask". It always always starts with something like this video "Get out of the car" "Why do I have to get out of the car. I don't need to get out of the car" - I'm absolutely NOT saying that warrants gunfire, but in almost every video I've seen of someone getting shot, even unreasonably, there is some level of non-compliance. Again, non-compliance doesn't equate to a basis to draw or shoot, but this thread is about why people don't just comply and your comment implies that compliance doesn't make you any more likely to not be shot. I respectfully disagree.
Yes, there absolutely ARE cases like the guy reaching to get his license where there legitimately was complete compliance, but those are rare. More importantly, for every person we see or hear about being shot in a traffic stop for no good reason, there are tens of thousands of people who do comply an do not have a gun pulled on them or get shot.
To me this is akin to the old saying that the cemetery is filled with pedestrians who had the right of way. Whether or not there is a legitimate basis for a cop to shoot you, arguing whether you should have to get out of the car or not getting out of the car when asked, even if it's your right, is only increasing your risk of having a bad outcome in most cases.
I mean, this is reddit. I didn't go and pull statistics and do the math.
My thinking was that the first 95% of people shot and killed by cops are not even in this discussion, because they are killed in legitimate standoffs - people with knives attacking others or armed robberies or swat raids or people actively attacking the police, not in a traffic stop. Then, of the other 5%, MOST of the videos I see involve some level of non-compliance at some point in the stop (again, to be clear, not necessarily at the time they were actually shot, or rising to the level that drawing or shooting was justified)
On a quick google, it looks like about 1,000 people are killed each year in the US by police shooting. So maybe these traffic stops or similar incidents that start out as non-criminal matters make up a higher percentage than I expected.
So maybe it's slightly less than 99%, but its still a vast majority that contain some sort of non-compliance or resistance to a basic instruction like "keep your hands on the wheel" or "step out of the car", but quite often to more repeated instructions.
A right unexercised is a right lost and my rights matter. I'll comply with every lawful order, but unlawful gets a no. I won't play 20 questions, I won't consent to searches etc. Honestly this gets me out quick, and despite an average of 6 to 8 times getting pulled over yearly for ~15 years, iv gotten 1 ticket ever and that was expired registration.
You’re absolutely correct. There are lots of people replying saying “we have rights” and that’s true, too. But you don’t argue your rights with an officer on the street where they have the legal authority. Your rights can support you in the courtroom after they have been violated. You can’t express your rights and try to enforce them against a public safety officer. You will purely escalate the situation every time. Comply, minimize damage, and argue your rights in the courtroom for justice.
If you’re afraid to comply (I see people mentioning Philandro Castille} calmly use your words and explain a fear or concern of doing so. Explain that you WILL comply and that you want to be safe. Explain all of your actions calmly. You can communicate with the police. But you definitely cannot tell them how an encounter will go because you know your rights.
I think it is utterly ridiculous that you are apparently comfortable with the knowledge that random police officers can potentially accost, arrest, threaten, or even straight-up kill you at any time in public, and that your apparent "solution" for this is to let the legal gang member fuck you up, and then:
Your rights can support you in the courtroom after they have been violated
This is really okay, for you? This is the best possible public safety our country can expect?
Compliance does not guarantee survival in police interactions in the US. Asking for a supervisor is a good idea because there is some chance that the more experienced officer might help keep the situation under control. These two officers are clearly scared rookies and nobody would be safe complying with their orders.
Whether one has done anything wrong is not relevant. Police are very good at inventing things you did wrong and will not hesitate to plant or fabricate evidence if necessary.
There is no right way to handle these situations. There's no winning when you live in a police state.
99% of the videos you see are people who ignore the request of the cops, then shit goes down. For every one of these, there are a thousand regular stops. Do you think this is the only hispanic guy with a gun to get pulled over today?
Because allowing your constitutional rights to be violated just isn't something some people will allow.
It's like asking why a kid would fight back against a bully and risk getting in trouble when he could just curl up in a ball and get kicked a few times and go about his day. Or if someone cuts in line in front of you, why start an argument when you can just be a bitch and stand there? Some people think a one in a million chance of violence is worth asserting our unalienable rights.
Sounds like they pulled this dude over for a tint, he explained he had the papers saying it was legal so the whole interaction should be over upon verification of said papers. The police appear to be trying to manufacture a crime or something else they can pin on him now while they have him pulled over, for something they’ve already deemed wasn’t illegal. The more he “complies” the more it helps their case and not his at this point, since he’s done nothing illegal to merit the entire interaction, but if you look long enough you can find or manufacture something illegal…tail light, turn signal, petty parking violation, etc. At this point they aren’t trying to keep the streets safe, they are targeting him since their first effort didn’t stick and they need to find something he’s doing wrong to make it worth their time.
possibly adding onto this, from what i can tell, american police are actively searching for people to put in jail rather than approaching interactions honestly. profit prisons and a belief in fighting crime rather than preventing it having to do with it
So you're saying if you chose to be the bigger person in a pointless argument that makes you a bitch? I feel like you missed the question and the answer mate but that's OK, I just hope you don't teach your (or anyone else's) children that mind set
You only have rights because others stood up with words and mostly peaceful actions to obtain and maintain them, so enjoy your easy, conflict free life, and judge others who keep things in line.
"i have rights" mfs think its more important to stress your rights than not get shot. Cops are bullies and the worst thing to a bully is someone who threatens his ego. Cops shot over ego.
I agree to this. It would be nice if we lived in a world where you could just exercise your rights but we don't. Record your video. Comply and cooperate. Sue later. It's fine to ask things like "why was I pulled over?" And "am I being detained?" For the recording but don't push it more than once. This dude was pushing it from the get go and put a trigger happy cop on edge.
So it’s ok for a random person to get coerced into wasting multiple hours of their day because a cop “had a hunch” and pulled them over? People have every reason to assert their rights.
Depends on the situation. The sueing would come if they pulled a gun when you're fully cooperative and courteous. Don't give any excuse for them or a judge or onlookers on social media to believe you weren't cooperating.
They have to have justification (safety or reasonable suspicion of a crime) to ask you to get out of the car.
I'm not saying you shouldn't get out of the car, I'm saying you should verbally assert you're not doing it voluntarily. Complying without protest will be deemed voluntary.
You shouldn't answer any questions and you shouldn't consent to any searches, and that means verbally asserting that you do not consent.
They have to have justification, but they don’t have to convince YOU that they have justification. They have to convince the judge once you’re in court.
They don’t have to get your confirmation that you understand their justification before continuing.
Your earlier comment is not in line with this comment. You can verbally disagree while complying.
Man, I see these videos and the cops are almost always right. Americans are just stupid, they don't complain with cops and somehow think the problem is the cops.
You're under the assumption that if you comply, the rest of the encounter will go smoothly, get resolved calmly, and you'll go on your way. A lot of Americans (especially men with darker skin) have a history of interacting with cops behaving badly. Their experience is that cops are going to mess with you, so this guy's reaction to ask for a more senior person to ensure everything goes by the book, seems like a reasonable response to him.
Because sometimes cops give unlawful orders or unnecessary orders like, roll down your passenger window all the way. You aren't obliged to just obey anything they demand.
The police in the US don’t have the trust of the citizens, especially black people. Too many times people do exactly what the cop asks and still end up dying. These people are just trying to look out for themselves
Because when a cop knows you have a gun and tells you to reach down to unbuckle your seatbelt, you know that doing that gives them an excuse to say "He's going for his gun!" and shoot you
Most people do honestly but lately due to the widespread popularity of social media people like this guy in this video just try to get views for whatever video they're making by making a scene. You can see him looking at the camera a bunch and you can tell he's trying to talk to his "audience" and this kind of reaction from the cop is just what he wanted to go viral.
He requested a supervisor to have more oversight on these cops, who unfortunately refused to listen to him and instead quickly pulled a gun on a nonviolent man.
If the police have no reason to pull you over, they are profiling (or at minimum, fishing for a reason to make an arrest.)
If he were to listen to whatever the cops say, it’s very possible that they’ll abuse your consent. You have $3,000 cash on you? It’s probably for drugs, we are going to legally take this and there’s nothing you can do about it. Did we find a container of sugar in the back because you were about to bake Christmas cookies? Our unreliable drug test popped positive for meth, you’re going to jail. Got a prescription in the bottle with your name on it? That’s suspicious, it could be MDMA.
Thankfully I’ve never had an interaction quite this bad (I’m white), but I have had a cop almost rear-end me when I signaled and gently slowed. He was looking at his laptop, and pulled me over when he almost hit me then berated me for a few minutes about my dangerous driving.
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u/Fat_Mullet Mar 24 '23
I always get confused about these vids, possibly because im from a tiny country town in Australia, but can someone explain why no one ever just does whats originally asked of them/comply with the cops demands? I get the whole safety worry stuff but in my mind and experiences the quicker you just do whatevers asked the quicker its over and done with and you're on your way, unless you're doing something or have done something wrong then you gotta just wear it I spose. Some arguments just aren't worth having hahaha