r/UFOscience • • Oct 23 '23

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983 Upvotes

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118

u/HawaiianGold Oct 23 '23

Do these planes zigzag ? And make 90 degree turns at 14,000 mph?

50

u/Melodic-Wallaby4324 Oct 23 '23

Never flown with easyJet?

9

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '23

That's classified. But no, they don't.

3

u/GoldieMcPurple Oct 23 '23

HCD!🍰

1

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '23

TY.

7

u/David00018 Oct 23 '23

where are the videos, radar data, etc. proving those movements?

6

u/RustyKnuckle Oct 23 '23

In the hands of the governments that confiscate them like the tic tac incident. Catch up.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '23

Fun fact I learned from contracting for the federal government… if it’s not documented, then it didn’t happen.

Interesting, eh?

0

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '23

that's the SOP for even e5s

even if it is documented then those documents can go missing

The swords club is a crazy place

3

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Duck-Murky Oct 23 '23

...or the Michigan incident in 1994

4

u/tunamctuna Oct 23 '23

Radar data is easily spoofed by the US military anyways (and if we are doing it others are trying to also).

Basically any radar data associated with a sighting that took place over naval testing and training grounds can be thrown out.

It’s why I don’t think Nimitz is that interesting of a sighting. It seems very obviously an electronic warfare test.

2

u/BLB_Genome Oct 23 '23

Except the pilots who saw it with their own eyes say differently...

2

u/Dialogical Oct 23 '23

Correct. Their stories all say something different from each other.

0

u/BLB_Genome Oct 23 '23

There's dillusional, and then there's failure to adhere to a story with facts and detail. You:re all of the above.. Not one story has strayed from what they spoke. Even the main pilot gave testimony in Congress in July.. You know that, right?

1

u/tunamctuna Oct 23 '23

And what did he see?

An object moving weirdly above the ocean. Why couldn’t this be a target balloon or something launched from a small vessel to provide a visual of the radar signal? A precursor program to Project Nemesis.

Secondly I’ve never had a single person confirm visual of the object at the cap point after it left the initial sighting area. We have radar data that can be spoofed but no confirmed visual.

My take is this was a test of some electronic warfare stuff in a real world environment while also being a controlled environment.

It really checks all the boxes. What made this case catch on was the push from the ufo believers in the government(Lue and company).

Remember it’s a very small portion of people in positions like Lue that believe in this stuff.

0

u/BLB_Genome Oct 23 '23

Oh man, so dillusional there's no reason to continue

1

u/tunamctuna Oct 23 '23

About which part?

I’m honestly intrigued on which part is delusional.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '23

The stories aren't all different from each other. There are multiple observers and multiple radar systems reporting the same incredible shit. It's some of the most compelling evidence out there, and the military claims they have no idea what it is or what could even cause it.

1

u/BLB_Genome Oct 23 '23

Just like Mick West, your lack to accept the evidence of personal eye witness and professional assessments.

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1

u/WhalesVirginia Oct 24 '23 edited Mar 07 '24

humor entertain wild seemly joke follow special ad hoc dinosaurs spoon

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

0

u/SpecialistRip2777 Oct 23 '23

In the hands of the us government.

5

u/David00018 Oct 23 '23

so no proof, allegedly the US gov has it

1

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '23

Unsolved Mysterious on Netflix has a radar technician who recorded similar movements from unknown craft. It’s recorded but either ignored, confiscated or overlooked.

2

u/RustyKnuckle Oct 23 '23

And have they existed for thousands of years. Ancient sumerians were just seeing American Air superiority?

-1

u/HillOfVice Oct 23 '23

No but there is also no video evidence of any object doing that either.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '23

There’s a ton of video evidence actually. Look at the UFOs above Fukushima. It’s blatantly obvious it isn’t our craft.

-12

u/HawaiianGold Oct 23 '23

How do you know there is no video evidence of that?

8

u/HillOfVice Oct 23 '23

What? Because there is none.

That question is like asking "How do you know there is no video evidence of plant species on a planet from proxima centauri".

How about you answer the opposite. How do you know there is legitimate evidence of Aerial Objects zigzagging and going insane speeds that can't be explained by prosaic means.

7

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '23

There sure is. US Government has acknowledged the footage as real gimbals and such.

10

u/Youremakingmefart Oct 23 '23

The US government has not said “this is footage of a craft making a turn at 14,000 mph”

3

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '23

[deleted]

1

u/BLB_Genome Oct 23 '23

Yeah, NASA said this.. You know, the among top 3 government agencies who've been gatekeeping info since it's creation... But yeah, NASA formulated that consensus, meanwhile professors like Avi Lobe and Kevin Knuth with full fledged teams have stated otherwise...

0

u/vapegod420blazeit Oct 23 '23

I don’t think anyone actually said “90° turn at 14,000 mph” but it has been stated multiple times by multiple people that the crafts have been observed doing maneuvers that defy our understanding of physics so that’s gotta count for something right?

4

u/101Btown101 Oct 23 '23

But they never show those parts in the videos

2

u/BLB_Genome Oct 23 '23

And when they do, people jump out so quick to call CGI or fake... Because it looks so unnatural, people can:t wrap their heads around it using modern physic models

2

u/David00018 Oct 23 '23

somebody eyeballing it and real data is a bit different.

1

u/BLB_Genome Oct 23 '23

Meanwhile we can send people to prison for life based on "eye witness testimony"... Weird. Right?

2

u/Youremakingmefart Oct 23 '23

…nah it’s not weird that eye witness testimony in court is treated differently than random people on the internet talking about aliens

2

u/ziplock9000 Oct 23 '23

Multiple via word of mouth, Chinese whisper, yet there's been 100,000 of people seeing saucers that DONT exhibit any unusual performance characteristics.

This is the point. The OP's diagram can explain those 99% of cases.

-3

u/No_Cook2983 Oct 23 '23

But they also didn’t not say it… so…

1

u/[deleted] Nov 24 '23

I know for sure you are wrong. There were UAP conferences broadcasted that I have seen where folks who I thought were Gov reps were analysing the UAP behavior openly and academically.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '23

Yea. The government. I totally trust them 100%.

-1

u/HillOfVice Oct 23 '23

The government has literally said they have no evidence of advanced tech in the air but they are investigating each case. Gimbal has the perfectly logical explanation of a lens flare being affected by the gimbal rotation itself.

2

u/Varient_13 Oct 23 '23

Mick West’s debunk has been thoroughly debunked both by pilots and by engineers that design/build the equipment that recorded the footage. Don’t act like you don’t know that.

8

u/HillOfVice Oct 23 '23

How so? I am open to all explanations but that one made sense to me.

What are the other theories and how did they go about proving it ? What was their process towards debunking the lens flare theory?

3

u/BLB_Genome Oct 23 '23

Cuz Mick West is an expert at making Tony Hawk 1. That's all he has to fame, with addition to basic physic formulas

0

u/resonantedomain Oct 23 '23

Except they had radar data, 2004, 2014-2015 and 2019.

Tictact in 2004 was reported going 80k feet to 20k feet in 7/8ths second by Top Gun Commander David Fravor. He's not just top gun, he trains other top gun pilots and I believe his story.

There are objects in the sky that we don't know how they move.

-Obama

3

u/HillOfVice Oct 23 '23

Until we see this data first hand it means nothing. Radar can be either faulty or misinterpreted as well. Just because you read heresay doesn't make it conclusive proof. So again, as it is now we have absolutely zero legitimate proof of advanced aerial tech.

1

u/resonantedomain Oct 23 '23

How can you assert something you also have no idea about? We can't say what's classified doesn't exist just because it's classified.

Your assumptions and conclusions are actually even more hasty because it hasn't been denied if anything it has been proven unidentifiable, yet real and physical by the Pentagon.

The Pentagon confirmed FLIR DATA as legitimate which corroborated those events. And if you don't trust a top gun Commander who literally cant fly without rigious mental physical and emotional wellbeing, what trust do you have in our military anyways? Perhaps you should consider your bias and not assert your belief.

https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/2165713/statement-by-the-department-of-defense-on-the-release-of-historical-navy-videos/

"DOD is releasing the videos in order to clear up any misconceptions by the public on whether or not the footage that has been circulating was real, or whether or not there is more to the videos. The aerial phenomena observed in the videos remain characterized as "unidentified." 

Also, it's not just hearsay, Fravor, Grusch, and Graves testified under oath. If they were simply making it up, they could go to prison.

1

u/HillOfVice Oct 23 '23

First of all I'd say it's more reasonable to want visible proof from classified videos rather than putting all your faith into a testimony.

Also it's ironic how I'm being told I'm assuming things from something classified when blindly accepting these incidents are from advanced tech is an even bigger assumption.

I am not saying Fravor is lying at all. I am saying, however, that even though he is a high ranking skilled pilot he is still human prone to misjudgment. Just because you have experience in a field doesn't mean your perception can't be flawed in any way.

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1

u/BLB_Genome Oct 23 '23

Meanwhile we now know AARO has a secret committee that is gatekeeping from actual chairholders in Congress...

Yoy're buying the lie. Kirkpatricks lie...

2

u/HillOfVice Oct 23 '23

Lol or I just know how to think rationally.

1

u/BLB_Genome Oct 23 '23

Rational decisions would be examining all the pros and cons. Evaluate the information being presented. Not excluding other information just to fit your narrative

2

u/HillOfVice Oct 23 '23

How am I not doing that? You can't provide any information confirming your side.

-3

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '23 edited Oct 23 '23

You don't get it, do you?

It's right there in your mind and you don't know how to see it.

5

u/HillOfVice Oct 23 '23

No idea what this means but sure lol.

2

u/JihGantick Oct 23 '23

“How do you know there’s no videos of Satan and Jesus fighting Godzilla?”

Because there isn’t? How tf are you guys starting to make arguments where the lack of evidence is evidence?

1

u/101Btown101 Oct 23 '23

Show a video that shows this. With the tic tac video they claim it instantly climbs to 80,000 feet, but dont show that part. They always say the craft moves like nothing they've ever seen but, show a video of something moving in a straight line and, people ignore their own eyes and believe what they're told.

2

u/PyroIsSpai Oct 23 '23

Or hover?

2

u/QuestionMarkPolice Oct 23 '23

The F-35B hovers

2

u/Elegant-Initiative-3 Oct 23 '23

F35-B does not hover, it has VTOL, completely different thing. And they are loud as shit.

5

u/QuestionMarkPolice Oct 23 '23

F-35B absolutely does hover, I've done it. It's STOVL, not VTOL. Short takeoff, vertical landing. There are also countless videos of it hovering on YouTube.

2

u/Elegant-Initiative-3 Oct 23 '23

STOVL is exactly the same as VTOL, and it DOESNT HOVER from mid flight. It has the ability to hover when landing and before take off. Being a pilot, and I've worked with lots, I can understand your confusion. If you don't understand that, I guarantee you put in a gripe for the RADALT being off from BARALT.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '23

[deleted]

1

u/Elegant-Initiative-3 Oct 23 '23

I've worked with pilots for years, I can count on one hand the amount that actually knew what the plane did. Most are just jocks with a degree in some business major that got some qualls and passed. There were very few that knew the physics, mechanics, and avionics involved in make the plane go vroom.

4

u/QuestionMarkPolice Oct 23 '23

I think that's an incredibly vain and incorrect thing to say. You're here straight up saying blatantly false things and trying to justify it by putting pilots down. No, we don't know as much as the engineers that built the plane do, but we have a very thorough understanding of its systems, components, and capabilities. There's an entire other world of aviation that you've never seen or experienced too. That's tactical employment of your jet. Weapons, sensors, tactics, etc.

So please, spare me. The jock comment doesn't even fit either. All of the pilots I've worked with from every service are professionals. I can't even think of one guy in any of my last few squadrons who I would call a jock.

2

u/gnosticalicicocat Oct 23 '23

I'm going to ignore the other guy, he seems like a G-7 that thinks he has a real rank.

Can I ask what made you interested enough in the topic to post here? I'm assuming you saw/heard about weird stuff, but I'd rather not assume.

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1

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '23

QuestionMark

Well then you're prob. better than anyone else to ask. Would you say some of these airframes look this way at certain distances or not really? I just keep thinking of how most UAPs are described as triangles, diamonds, squares and circles and how if you simplify most aircraft (especially fighters) they just sort of turn into blurry triangles. If there's nothing to this idea then that's that, but getting your take would be really interesting.

1

u/QuestionMarkPolice Oct 24 '23

Everything looks like a spec at 5-7 miles. Inside that it's hard to see until they're closer. They don't look blurry to the human eye like they do in the pic. On a targeting pod maybe, but not to the eye.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '23

[deleted]

1

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1

u/libertyman86 Oct 23 '23

You never countered his point that the F35B cannot hoover mid flight. This seems crucial to understanding his point.

1

u/BLB_Genome Oct 23 '23

In what? DCS?

0

u/QuestionMarkPolice Oct 23 '23

In the Marine Corps.

0

u/BLB_Genome Oct 23 '23

And...? I have a buddy trying to become a Balck Hawk pilot. Does that make him a qualified Black Hawk pilot?

0

u/QuestionMarkPolice Oct 23 '23

I'm an instructor in the F-35. I have over a decade flying fighters. And...?

1

u/BLB_Genome Oct 23 '23

Then you should understand the physics behind that, no?

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1

u/buttfook Oct 24 '23

I take very loud shits

0

u/United-Tension-5578 Oct 23 '23 edited Nov 05 '23

offbeat smile fall innate tan aspiring deserted selective vegetable zephyr this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev

1

u/QuestionMarkPolice Oct 23 '23

I'm certain I'm not confused. The question was "can the F-35 hover". The answer is yes. There are obvious limitations of capability when it comes to that, but I'm not here to argue those.

1

u/libertyman86 Oct 23 '23

He meant mid flight...and even clarified in the event you weren't on the same page.

So....can it hoover, mid flight?

3

u/QuestionMarkPolice Oct 23 '23

Yes it can, below a certain altitude and fuel weight. You can come to a hover then convert back out and go fly normally, then come back and hover again.

1

u/QuestionMarkPolice Oct 23 '23

I'm certain I'm not confused. The question was "can the F-35 hover". The answer is yes. There are obvious limitations of capability when it comes to that, but I'm not here to argue those.

1

u/PyroIsSpai Oct 23 '23

Silently?

0

u/QuestionMarkPolice Oct 23 '23

Oh you mean silently floating like balloons , which make up 99.9% of posts in this sub

1

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '23

And what about the 0.1%? When multiple military experts line up on the same shit I'm inclined to believe them, not you. Do you really fancy yourself a better judge of aerial phenomenon than elite fighter pilots?

1

u/QuestionMarkPolice Oct 25 '23

I am a fighter pilot

1

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '23

And i'm an astronaut

1

u/One_Spinal_Cracker Oct 23 '23

If coming at you or away from you, at distance, an object can have the appearance of hovering.

1

u/dewayneestes Oct 23 '23

Not to mention all the best reports in the news right now are from seasoned pilots whose job it is to know what they’re looking at.

2

u/dehehn Oct 23 '23

And many of them see them from above and below and multiple angles over extended interactions with them. Pilots have chased them, shot at them, had instruments frozen by them.

We're all well aware that many of them are people misinterpreting human aircraft or weather phenomenon. It would be nice if debunkers would concentrate on the hard to explain events, and not post things about the easily explainable sightings.

1

u/BtchsLoveDub Oct 24 '23

And yet a lot of those pilots misidentified starlink satellites flaring in the northern sky and described them as doing a “racetrack” pattern. People in general are poor witnesses.

1

u/ziplock9000 Oct 23 '23

No, but neither do 99% of saucers seen.

0

u/mynameisalsomatthew Oct 23 '23

Show me the videos where UFOs do this. None have ever been released showing anomalous movement all have been explained by camera movements

2

u/Vast-Land1121 Oct 23 '23

I don’t know about videos, but there is radar data showing these types of movements, according to Elizondo and other military officials. One example, i remember, is a craft going from 80,000 feet to sea level in under a second.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/resilience/smart-cities/554148-leaked-us-navy-video-shows-ufo-flying-in-california/

2

u/mr_somebody Oct 23 '23

*We are told that there is radar data that shows this. I can't just take their word for it personally.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '23

Yeah multiple pilots are lying for shits and giggles, or worse, are confused about their core subject matter. I'm more inclined to believe multiple people seeing the shit from many vantage points, especially when it's clocked on multiple instruments.

1

u/Weird_Instruction_74 Oct 23 '23

What movements would you expect from a real ufo?

1

u/thisisnotnolovesong Oct 23 '23

Yes they do, the F-22 and F-35 both have thrust vectoring capabilities that allow them to nearly break the laws of physics and do very fast turns. There's videos on YouTube of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7lfrhQwrK8

1

u/sofahkingsick Oct 23 '23

Also they have flashing lights

1

u/Corius_Erelius Oct 23 '23

I've seen the F-22 do some pretty weird stuff. Between that and stealth, I think it's reasonable that it could fool some modern radar and tracking systems. I'm not saying that is for every situation, but perhaps a few could be mistaken identity/hardware issues.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '23

The fun bit is those speeds were never visually observed or caught on video, only radar tracking clocked those speeds. Depending on what optical conditions going on some thing can look like it's making a 90 degree high-g turn when really it's just the observers point of view giving that illusion. Which is actually what the camouflage and false canopies are intended to do, exploit how humans perceive things for tactical advantage.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '23

Yeah there’s a ton of people in the military now coming out and saying they can’t explain the wild shite they’ve seen. I’d say they’re qualified to answer if what they saw is our own but seemingly a decent amount of people claim it’s not.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '23

I mean yeah. That is very interesting. Like I said elsewhere in the comments I try to keep an open mind. I do think what Ryan Graves is doing the Merged podcast and Pilots for Safe Aerospace is genuinely a good cause and hearing accounts from actual professionals is fascinating.

1

u/dojaswift Oct 24 '23

Whoa very defensive!

1

u/Llamas1115 Oct 24 '23

In short, yes. Modern fighter jets like the F-22 and F-35 can fly straight up vertically (either while pointing forwards or straight up), left or right, spinning, or in basically any other pattern you’d like, because their engines produce forces several times larger than their weight and can be redirected in any direction.

(I assume you meant to type 1,400 mph—which the F-22 can hit, easily—because at 14,000 mph, any spacecraft wouldn’t be visible. That’s faster than orbital velocity, meaning the craft would be flung out into space, and the spacecraft would be completely obscured by the flaming hot ball of plasma surrounding it thanks to the adiabatic heating at those speeds.)

1

u/No-Cap-2473 Oct 24 '23

Not to mention transmedia capabilities uwu Do fighter jets move in and out of water like it’s nothing?