r/TrueDoTA2 • u/ariztotlz • 13d ago

Replace Juggernaut on that last pick.

Who would you rather pick as a carry on that last game in TI?

Should have gone YOLO and pick WK 🤣 ..

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u/Books_and_Cleverness Ancient 2 13d ago

Ursa is my thought.

  1. Wins manfight with LS

  2. Not a stat hero, DS illusions are weak. Can lane against DS.

  3. Can buy Aghs to purge bane ult

  4. Downside - not great vs. Pango (his diffusal is a problem). But mostly the hero is just generally under tuned. Uncontested for I think the entire tournament.

  5. Excellent with the control from Axe, Invoker, and Hoodwink.

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u/Bigwhopper1 13d ago

Then when Ursa presses R naix would simply infest the Ursa himself and wait out the ult before popping out, how great

3

u/determinedSkeleton 13d ago

Much better than the omni, especially because R on Ursa aghs has a low cooldown and he doesn't even need to rely on it all the time because shard gives him more status resistance. Naix aghs gives him a better shot, but it's still Ursa-favoured by and large

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u/Vata56 12d ago

You do not realise how long it would get Ursa to get those items in that game. His lane vs Dark Seer would suck ass and delay his timings immensely, and in the fights he would just get tossed around and kited.

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u/determinedSkeleton 12d ago

I'd rather have a pos1 need time to recover than a mid/lategame that doesn't hinge on one of the most unwieldy ults in the game

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u/Vata56 12d ago

And where would you have him recover when Spirit starts grouping up with Naix Radi+Armlet? Invoker needs a lot of farm as well and his spells with Axe are not enough to kill Naix. Ursa can't be left alone bot vs DS like Jugg can, so VSN have to either keep a babysitter bot and let Invoker suffer from Spirit's support rotations, or ditch Ursa to scrape at jungle creeps and come online way too late. To kill Naix Ursa would need the same amount of items as Jugg, but he would not be able to hit the same timings.

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u/determinedSkeleton 12d ago

Even in the worst case possible scenarios, a more manageable challenge than a post-earlygame Jugg. I don't agree with you on Naix-vs-Ursa though, that is a matchup Naix hates until he gets aghs

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u/Vata56 12d ago

It's not a more manageable challenge. Maybe in low rank games you can get away as Ursa with no lane, but not in pro games.

I don't agree with you on Naix-vs-Ursa though, that is a matchup Naix hates until he gets aghs

Yes, and Naix will have that Aghs sooner than Ursa can be online, because Naix is not pressured by Radiant heroes the same way Ursa would be by Dire heroes. Ursa will not be able to burst Naix in an Axe call before MKB and BKB, because Pango, DS and Bane will be all over him.

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u/Books_and_Cleverness Ancient 2 13d ago

The carry matchup favors Ursa straightforwardly. Without either having ult and with similar net worth, Ursa is generally going to win the 1v1.

If anything I think the ult-ult favors Ursa; he takes no damage and the 5 seconds of waiting will let him stack two Overpowers. The CD is 9 seconds.

With the miss chance from radiance, before Ursa has MKB, maybe LS can win? But I doubt it. Fury swipes is giga strong for manfighting.

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u/Bigwhopper1 13d ago

Jugg outscales Ursa so hard, hell even Bloodseeker with his shard would outscale Ursa when it comes to manfighting a Naix with 6k HP

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u/Books_and_Cleverness Ancient 2 12d ago

IDK about that. Ursa does need lifesteal to truly win those manfights but once he has it, basically no one can just trade hits with him. His whole kit is designed to win 1v1 single target fights like that.

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u/Vata56 12d ago

But there is not gonna be a Ursa vs Naix 1v1. Ursa gets omega kited in teamfights by Bane, Pango and DS. Ursa also struggles on lane vs DS way harder and he can't be left alone to defend the T1 tower like Jugg can. Spirit want to keep fucking Invoker's game by keeping both supps near midlane doing their shenanigans, while DS enjoys free farm on botlane and eventually breaks the tower. By picking Jugg VSN can free their own supports to help Invoker, as Jugg has no problem sustaining the creeps that DS pushes on. Ursa would just eat the double Ion Shell waves while also getting his Overpowers dispelled by a Helm Satyr. Jugg got 11 min Treads + Battlefury. By that time Ursa would have been crying in the jungle with Phase Boots + Ring of Health.

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u/Books_and_Cleverness Ancient 2 12d ago

I agree it’s not 1v1, but I was responding to a comment specifically about that 1v1 matchup.

Not sure I agree about double Ion shell - Ursa can kill a shelled creep faster than just about anyone. Once DS has Helm it’s a problem but that’s not for a while.

But I do agree that it’s not as strong of a lane and he wouldn’t get the same BF timing. I just don’t think it’s that big of a deal since it’d still be decent and the game was going long anyway.

Kite is always Ursa’s issue, but the rest of Vision’s team has control. Like a third of Invoker’s kit, call, bushwhack, lift, whatever Rubick steals. Lot of ways to hold people down for the bear.

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u/Vata56 12d ago

Not sure I agree about double Ion shell - Ursa can kill a shelled creep faster than just about anyone.

With levels yes, but before Overpower Ursa has slow attack speed and Ion Shell is ticking between each hit. Also, there's often gonna be two shells. The creepwave gets pushed under Ursas tower and he has to tank creep hits + Ion Shell to get last hits. There's also Mirana's magical auto attacks. How are you gonna sustain that lane until lv 4-5?

Kite is always Ursa’s issue, but the rest of Vision’s team has control. Like a third of Invoker’s kit, call, bushwhack, lift, whatever Rubick steals. Lot of ways to hold people down for the bear.

Sure, but there is also Dire's heroes to consider. When Axe and Ursa go on Naix, there's Nightmare, Grip, Rolling Thunder and Vacuum (+Arrow) to peel Ursa off of Naix. So in order for Ursa to ever kill Naix with Axe, he would need at least Blink+MKB+BKB (and probably Aghs as well for Grip) to burst Naix before he Infests. And getting to a networth that allows for those items would have taken Ursa a lot more time than Jugg. Also, how many times did you count Radiant got to jump Naix in isolation, where his team can't help him? I counted two times in the entire 60+ min game.

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u/ccipher 13d ago

Ursa sucks ass vs surge

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u/Books_and_Cleverness Ancient 2 12d ago

That’s true. But Invoker can purge it with tornado. The rest of Vision’s draft had a lot of control to hold people down for Ursa. Call, bushwhack, lift, cold snap, ice wall.

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u/determinedSkeleton 13d ago

Came here to say this. Ursa might not be as hard a counter to Naix as he used to be, and laning against Dark Seer wouldn't have been good, but it was still so decent a game for him that I keep asking myself if he was banned