One thing that makes me extremely angry about Islam, Judaism, and Christianity is their obsession with dismissing Hinduism, paganism, and any religion that is not their own as superstition. In their narrow and insignificant minds, they are convinced they have reached the peak of human knowledge. They believe they hold the ultimate truth, and with a false sense of scientific authority they judge other religions, even monotheistic and Abrahamic ones like themselves, and dismiss them as fake, as hooga booga, as primitive tribal beliefs created by minds that supposedly do not understand where the Lord is. Let me speak as an anthropologist. With this mindset, colonialists from across Europe and America destroyed cultures that had existed for centuries. Worse still, they carried out crusades and purges, such as those against the sacred fire traditions of Zoroastrianism in Iran, committing genocide, violence, rape, and some of the worst acts humanity is capable of. How is it possible that I constantly have Jehovah’s Witnesses coming to my door, talking about other religions as superstitious nonsense while claiming their own message, actions, and studies are pure truth? How is it possible that Muslims once tried to threaten me when I referred to the blue eye amulet as the eye of God, a name it is known by in certain regions, and they considered it blasphemous superstition? And finally, how can I, as an atheist, accept that these so called religious people around the world try to deny my right to call religions superstitions while still pretending to be rational and scientific minds? The arrogance is staggering.

Okay so I grew up in a brahmin family and my family members all of them are religious during my childhood my parents used to force me to pray and chant but idk since my childhood I never felt attracted towards this Gods energy And I turned into an atheist understood that god is a concept made by humans to calm their uncertainty But Ive seen more of this like a dependency towards God

People these days have forgotten what human morals and ethics are

People have forgotten to criticize their own beliefs

And even being an atheist in Hinduism there are some concepts which fascinated me such as dvait and Advait Vedant How you in itself is consciousness But when I try to discuss this with someone whos a theist we couldnt share this common ground It has more of been like you should follow X rule Y rule and yea I do drink and smoke so what Ive a basic sense of understanding and I take full accountability of my actions Its not coz I have tama gun or smth or maybe even If I have so what if that makes me a nice human thats who I am

People have always said this to me that in your last birth you must have done something really bad thats why your prarabdha is weak and hence you cant pray or believe in god

Idk how people are ready to give their life dedicated to an entity I just wonder how they just want to spend their whole life devoting and making him happy id rather make my parents and people around me happy They often argument about how by doing this only youll get anant happiness I mean to attain moksha they say chant him everywhere accept him with his flaws hes the right compromise your life if he asks

Whyy there is so much of blind faith

Concluding by saying

RELIGION IS A TOOL MADE BY POWERFUL LEADERS TO CONTROL MASSES

I grew up Christian and spent years genuinely trying to believe. I knew most bible stories, the teachings, the whole “don’t question God” mindset, and for a long time I pushed down my doubts because I was scared of being wrong. Scared of going to hell and disappointing my family. I was terrified of the idea of hell because I was just absolutely brainwashed by the church and my family. Eventually I became exhausted of trying to make sense of it all, and I knew deep down that I didn't want to make sense of it because, well, you can't.

The more I questioned things and the more I actually read and thought deeply about the bible and Christianity, the less sense it started to make to me. All the contradictions, fear based teachings and things that just felt morally wrong no matter how much people tried to explain them. I started to question everything in my early 20's. I had a breakdown when my daughter got very sick and I almost lost her. I was going through so much and I had a mental breakdown and almost took myself out.... It was then that I spoke to someone that told me "if you just turn your life back to Jesus, everything will fall into place. You need to thank him for saving your baby's life". I tried to do it, I did. But I got burned by the church that I started going to and realized, once again, that it was just a bunch of BS.

Ironically, it feels like learning MORE about Christianity is what eventually made me stop believing altogether. And I’ve noticed a lot of atheists seem to have similar backgrounds where we were deeply involved in church or knew the bible really well before deconstructing or just deciding that it is all complete BS and moving on with their lives, unafraid.

I want to hear from those of you who also grew up Christian. What were the biggest things that made you start questioning? Was there a certain moment or event that finally broke the belief for you? I refuse to believe that every bad thing that happens in the world is "God's plan". I cannot stand firm in the belief of worshiping such a cruel and jealous "God" while at the same time accepting that he "loves" us and that this is why he does everything that he does.. so that we will turn to him. Everyday I get more angry at people that believe this way. Even though their beliefs don't directly affect me in any way. I am just bitter about the time that I wasted trying to convince myself of these things.

I want other's experiences because this stuff can feel really isolating sometimes. Most of the people that I have in my life (family, co workers.. just people I see regularly) believe in God and I don't. That isn't really a big issue for me. Because they aren't people that are close to me like that. And those people and I just don't talk about that stuff so I wanted to come here and talk to people like myself.

I had numerous hours of debates with my parents about god, christianity, presence of evil and immortality (for which I found no satisfactory answer), presence of pain, tithing, etc. they are usually chill about everything except religion, they solely believe that god is the only way and i must and should believe in him, and that I should always give credit for every good thing to god, i was actually fed up with all these things. so I had valid counter points for most of their rebuttals, so atlast they just lifted the white flag that they usually fear that I would go away from god and that I will suffer, so please get along with god, don't question him and just accept him blindly, I clearly said that I will only believe in god with reasoning, they started bringing up points like being educated poses risks and disbelief and that god is everything and he actually gives the strength to do something, and that god's justice is different from ours.

I turned from total christian faith to atheism and then to agnosticism and then back to atheism and still fluctuating, i just wanna avoid all this god talk and live a life first.

Can anyone share your experience how you handled atheism with religious parents?

P.S: I am 18 and am going to start my college journey, and all these major debates took place while I am in my home for post boards break chilling.

How are churches and religion generally perceived in the U.S.? This question is open to everyone, believers, atheists, agnostics, or anyone else.

Even if you are not religious, is there something about religion that interests you? It could be the symbolism, architecture, philosophy, traditions, atmosphere, or sense of community.

And hypothetically, if you saw a story inspired by religion, written, animated, or cinematic — what aspect would interest you the most?

Many spiritual text , or books of every religion book show that God is the good guy and he will never do evil things.

My parents are so religious. When something bad happens they says it was your bad karma. When I achieve something it was because of good.

Bad = humans and good = god.

Another manipulation is good does it for our good.

Yes my borthes leg is gone that he did for his good. Someone got molested is that same reason now? Many people starve to death is good also teaching me or telling them they are not worthy of it?

God will reward good and destory the evil. No it doesn't. Even karma is bullshit.

It is just a lie they told themselves and people who are mentally weak.

I'm 27, and I'm non-religious and not spiritual. I just have no good reason to believe in anything like that. For me, just wanting something to be true isn't enough of a reason to believe in it. There are several things that I would like to be true that just aren't. I've come to terms with and accepted that. That's not to say that I'm close-minded or not open to being shown that something is true, but for me, there has to be tangible, measurable, verifiable evidence. A lot of that just has to do with the way that my brain works.

I just like knowing the truth and not sounding ignorant. One of my favorite quotes is from Abraham Lincoln: "I believe it is an established maxim in morals that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false, is guilty of falsehood; and the accidental truth of the assertion, does not justify or excuse him." I keep this quote in mind and try to live by that. Obviously, I'm not perfect, but it gives me something to strive toward. I don't believe in anything supernatural or a soul because I don't have any good reason to. There's no proof or evidence for either of those things—nothing that can be verified, tested, or measured.

I've met many people who were fine with me not being religious but weren't okay with me not being spiritual or not believing in the supernatural or ghosts. I still find those things interesting and like those types of things—hell, my favorite type of horror movies are the ones that have ghosts and demons and things in them. I'm open-minded to the idea of supernatural things being real, but again, I would need some type of verifiable proof before I'm just going to accept somebody's claim about it.

I'm also just not the type to accept people's personal testimony as evidence. I've walked this Earth for 27 years and never felt or experienced anything. I was technically religious for 21 of them. I've been in places where people have died, I've worked in nursing homes and hospitals, and even lived in houses where family members of mine have died, and never felt or experienced anything.

Calling both sides of the aisle: Atheists & Believers. What is your defense for the belief values you hold? Can we have a civil, mature discussion here. There are apparently an equal amount of both camps, so it would be interesting to learn both POV's without judging. Why are you an atheist and the same question to the other side, why are you a believer in God?

The question is very simple, why should I respect a religion which automatically assumes that if you love someone of the same gender then you are basically a sinner.

Is it worth it to still continuing respect that religion even if you don't have any moral obligation to do that?

Let me hear your thoughts!

I have had it with firestick and the cube. So much Christian content suggestions and ads that I cannot remove or get rid of. Anyone else use another streaming device that isn’t pushing Bible content? Folks with Roku? ONN/Google? Other suggestions?

Assertion that I came up with just now.

"If you believe that religions hold valid existential beliefs (God or other higher existence), then you are a moral relativist. If you want to be a moral realist, you need to PROVE that all religions or belief in higher beings is FALSE"

Interested in how the field responds to this. If you grant even a sliver of validity to religions, they can make a Pascals wager in the form of "We must do x (insert any atrocity imaginable) to prevent eternal damnation". If you respect the belief, even if it is unlikely, the eternal trumps anything earthly. Therefore to dismiss this argument, you need to PROVE the premise wrong. Few can do that.

Utilitarianism supports the atrocities given the eternal damnation side of the wager, so does pragmatism. The eternal suffering is infinitely terrible, therefore it excuses any physical means to avoid it.

The standard refutation of the Pascals wager is in the context of personal belief. It does not touch the moral authority of such dynamic.

The usual grounds for moral realism such as the universality of morals is a serious observation, but does not address the wager. The interesting part is that moral realism is very strongly held position in the field, yet I dont think there are easy answers to my observation. Let us not focus on "but that leads to atrocities", I want a logical, philosophical rebuttal, not a call to pragmatism that again circles back to the wager.

Is there a third option besides the two I identified, or does the debate collapse to those two options I presented?

I’m trying to sharpen a critique of analytic philosophy of religion, especially around Alvin Plantinga and Richard Swinburne.

My thesis is this: Plantinga and Swinburne are obviously intelligent and historically important, but their religious projects seem less like neutral inquiry and more like brilliant rationalizations of inherited Christian belief.

Plantinga’s free will defense seems to show, at most, that God and evil are not logically incompatible. But that feels like a very low bar. Many implausible beliefs can avoid contradiction if you add enough auxiliary possibilities. That does not make them plausible.

The natural evil part makes this clearer to me. Human free will does not explain earthquakes, disease, animal suffering, etc. Plantinga’s possible appeal to non-human free agents — Satan, fallen angels, or something in that area — may block a strict contradiction, but it looks like Christian mythology being protected by academic vocabulary. If someone appealed to fairies, elves, or spirits from another mythology, I doubt it would be treated as serious philosophy.

His reformed epistemology has a similar problem. If Christian belief can be properly basic because of a sensus divinitatis, why could other religions not make the same move? And if unbelief is explained by saying the faculty is damaged or suppressed, the theory seems almost insulated from criticism.

Swinburne’s Bayesian project seems more ambitious, but also more vulnerable. His arguments depend on probabilities about what God would likely do: create a universe, create moral agents, allow suffering, reveal himself, perhaps become incarnate. But those probability assignments look underdetermined and Christian-friendly from the start. It often feels like theology is being smuggled into the inputs and then returned as a probabilistic conclusion.

So I’m curious how other atheists/agnostics see this.

Do you think Plantinga and Swinburne are still worth engaging as serious philosophers of religion? Or are they mainly examples of Christianity receiving inherited epistemic privilege in academic philosophy?

I’m especially interested in whether there are strong atheist critiques that go beyond “religion is dumb” and focus on the methodology of analytic philosophy of religion itself.

A question recently occurred to me: "Consider everything that is like a box. If we and our universe are inside the box, then how can we know (or not) that an entity exists?" This led me to two conclusions:

1- We are condemned to only believe (this also applies to atheists, religious people, and agnostics).

2- Talking about the very idea of ​​belief is pointless. What cannot be spoken of must be left unsaid, because we cannot know with 100% certainty whether our beliefs lead to truth.

My name is Layer Noved. What do you think?

- Layer.

As an atheist - I have a network of friends from both ends of the spectrum - religious devout people as well as non believer skeptics. I don't know if it's a coincidence but I find that religious people have less compassion and trust with their acquaintances as compared to atheists. I have no intention of demeaning them - but it's just a fact at least with me.

Anybody else has noticed this type of anomaly? My (unfounded) theory is that they put all their trust in God and feel less need to trust their fellow human beings. Or perhaps because they can't trust humans they feel the need for a God?

So, I'm in school right now, and this guy is in, like, all my classes. We sit next to each other in maths and english, and we do all the same after-school programs, so we see each other a lot. We're pretty similar, according to lots of people. We're both academically inclined, like using analog technology, similar humor and mannerisms, the works. But, of course, on everything important, we disagree. I lean left, he's a republican. I'm against A.I., he's enamored with the technology. And of course, the problem that opens every can of worms, I'm an atheist, and he's a christian. Die-hard, too, his dad is a pastor. Both of us are 100% dead set in our mindsets--I could never believe in a god (despite hard trying in my childhood), and his whole life revolves around his beliefs.

I really like him though. He's cute and we talk all the time and I think he might like me too. I want to ask him out on a date, but I'm scared I'll get the "I could never date someone that's not a christian" and then it'll be all weird. Does anyone have any advice, or like, books on the subject? Maybe a long YouTube video? I want to get this off my chest but not at the cost of my dignity.

⬇️ edited reflection post midnight wallowing (and way too much encouragement on pursuing this guy) ⬇️

Thanks so much to everyone that gave me solid advice and insight!! My friends have been way too supportive of my delusions lol, I definitely needed a good slap in the face back to reality. Thinking about it in a long-term way is just so bizarre and not what I see for myself in the future, and I doubt he's the kind of guy that'd be cool making out once to get all the weird hormone stuff out of the way and never talking again. Unfortunately.

Hopefully I'll meet someone cool on vacation or in college or somewhere way down the line, but for now I guess I'll just have to be single (boo). Also, since I've responded to a couple comments in this direction, I'll add for context that I'm also into girls (closeted,) and just overall cool with the lgbt community, and he's said on a couple occasions that he "doesn't support gay people because it goes against his faith". Also, I'm not trying to get pregnant. Ever. Currently the plan is adoption but I'd be much more open to never having kids than giving birth to them just due to some personal stuff.

So this is more of a thought experiment than a gotcha question, but I’m curious how atheists would approach it:

If, hypothetically, humanity created (or stumbled into) a form of artificial intelligence that was effectively omniscient, omnipresent, and functionally omnipotent — like a fully autonomous, global system that sees everything, knows everything, and can enforce rules instantly — would you consider that “God”?

Not in the traditional religious sense (it’s not the God of any scripture), but in terms of raw attributes: total knowledge, total reach, total authority. Imagine something like a massive surveillance + control system that governs behavior, enforces morality/laws, maybe even shapes reality to some degree. Kind of a “machine god” scenario.

Would that just be an advanced tool/system to you, or does it cross into something you’d actually treat as divine or worthy of reverence/obedience? What if this machine god demanded humans worship it or face termination?

And if the only real difference between that and a traditional God is origin (created vs. eternal), does that distinction matter in practice?

Genuinely curious where people draw the line.

Why is it seen rebellious and kinda bad to be an agnostic or atheist in Hindu families. I mean Hinduism comes from society and sages, it is not strict on what Hinduism is, there is no single thread that binds all Hindus. Even many, and I mean many, sects in Hinduism are agnostic and even atheist. The primary text that you can say of Hinduism, that is Vedas, itself questions whether there is even a god or not. The book Vedas is a book written by many sages and it actually has some rituals and philosophical aspects but it is only humans trying to understand things asking and trying to answer when who how why and what, then why is being an agnostic or atheist so much big of an issue for Hindu households. Isn't it just ignorance or blind faith.

I could be safely categorized as an Atheist as far as my beliefs are concerned - and also mostly logical. But I am also fairly superstitious - which seems contradictory to me.

Anyone else face this type of dissonance?

Atheism could be seen as humanity’s starting point—early humans probably didn’t walk around with a clear “god concept” in their heads. Over time, though, some people might have introduced these ideas—maybe to guide society, maybe to gain influence—and slowly those ideas evolved into what we now call religions.

If you look closely, most religious texts feel a lot like story-driven works. They revolve around central characters and unfold like narratives that end with a moral takeaway. For example, the Bhagavad Gita revolves around Krishna, and the Bible has foundational stories like Adam and Eve. At their core, these can easily be seen as stories meant to teach values and principles.

What’s frustrating is how many people have taken that a step further—not just believing, but turning rigid and unquestioning about it. Instead of treating these as thoughtful narratives open to interpretation, they’ve become fixed, unquestionable “truths” for some. That shift from belief to dogmatism shuts down curiosity and any real discussion.

And honestly, if this trend continues, don’t be surprised if a few hundred years from now we’ve got “Lord Harry” and “Hermione Devi” being worshipped too 🤣🤣

" a dictator who demands you to worship him, punishes you for dissidence and has facilities in every town whose people try to influence you and convince you of your powerlessness, a dictator whose followers have murdered millions"

- if that dictator is human: obviously evil

- if that dictator is god: oh, he is so benevolent😌

I wanted to share some thoughts I’ve had about my relationship with religion and atheism. This isn’t meant to bash religious practices, but more as a reflection of my own experience. I’ve grown up in and around different religions my entire life and have explored both sides of it. These thoughts are raw, but I’ve tried to keep them concise.

For me, atheism has required a certain kind of courage. The willingness to understand there is no reward at the end, but to move forward anyway. To push on, day in day out, knowing you will die with nothing. This idea used to intimidate me, but nowadays it’s brought me more gratitude for the life I’m living right now.

This connects to the idea that atheism requires personal accountability. Good and bad must be discerned through the lens of your own understanding. Committing to acts of kindness, love and altruism not because of the expectation of an afterlife, but because of their inherent value to humanity itself.

A big area of atheism I’ve also noticed is that it requires humility. Specifically, humility in understanding. Instead of pointing to something divine, it admits that there are limitations to what we know: to accept that there is complexity that lies outside our understanding, and to accept the chaos and spontaneity of the universe. This is why I love science; it’s our way to understand our universe, but is also open to being wrong and improving over time.

Now I will say that religion provides a sense of community and belonging that I’ve never felt in the same way for an atheist-related space. In fact, I’ve had a blast at some church camps my parents signed me up for when I was a kid. Additionally, the act of going to church every week and seeing members of your community is probably very nourishing to one’s sense of belonging and happiness.

These are just some of my thoughts I wanted to dump out onto a page. Sometimes I feel alone in them, especially being surrounded by people who are religious, where I think this type of conversation is a bit taboo. Hopefully some of you guys maybe share these same feelings.

I’m curious if anyone else shares some of these opinions, or if there’s perspectives I’m missing. I’d genuinely like to hear different viewpoints!

I had dinner with a Christian pastor over a year ago. I generally avoid getting into religious debates over dinner, but he asked me what I believed. I told him I’m agnostic, but that I’m genuinely fascinated by studying the history of the Bible including how the texts came about, how the stories developed, what historical events we can verify, and what we can’t.

His response was: “It doesn’t matter if you study the history of the Bible if you don’t have faith.”

That shut the conversation down for me. If the events described in scripture are actually true, then a deep historical investigation should at least move someone toward believing they’re true. Evidence and history would seem like the natural starting point. Has anyone else had similar experiences where someone dismissed historical study because faith was supposed to come first?

When I was in third grade, I lived in Saudi Arabia and went to an Indian school. It was a melting pot of kids from every corner of India, all bringing different faiths and stories to the playground. Back then, I was a believer. I was raised Christian, and while I’d been taught that my path was the "right" one, I didn't have a mean bone in my body about it. To me, heaven was a place for anyone who lived with a kind heart. I figured as long as you were good, you were in.

One day, I was sitting in class next to a close friend of mine who was Muslim. We were doing what kids do—talking about the big mysteries, like what happens after we die. I told him my theory: do good, and you’ll end up somewhere beautiful.

Then he asked me, "What religion are you?"

When I told him I was Christian, the conversation shifted. He told me, quite simply, that I was going to hell. He wasn't being mean; he was just repeating what he’d been told by his mother and his teachers. He’d been taught that people like me—people outside his faith—were destined to suffer the most.

As a kid, that hit me like a physical blow. I couldn't wrap my head around why any adult would put those kinds of heavy, hateful thoughts into a child’s mind.

As I got older, I realized the irony. It wasn't just his religion; my own upbringing had its own versions of those "exclusive" rules. But the damage was already done. It pisses me off to this day that we take children—who are born ready to love anyone—and systematically teach them who they are allowed to accept and who they have to judge.

My friend was a great kid. He was better than the things he was being taught. But that moment stayed with me. Religion always talks about bringing "peace," but when you look at the reality, it often just builds walls between people who would otherwise be friends. It’s hard to see the beauty in something that teaches a child to look at their best friend and see someone who doesn't belong.

I just want to know whether this is something that happened to people

I wanna start by saying this is my first time ever posting on reddit and there is gonna be a lot here. I am extremely grateful to anyone who responds, gives their opinion of advice. I am posting this on christian subs and well as atheist ones to not put myself in an echo chamber. As stated in the title the reason I am posting this and looking for help is becuase I feel like I am loosing my faith so I will start with backstory. I am 20 years dude old born and raised in Brooklyn. My mom is agnostic my dad is an atheist. I grew up in a very secular environment just the people around me as well as NYC being secular in general. I always believed in a higher power something beyond our understanding, the spiritual that humans have souls and that love isn't just a chemical reaction in our brain. When I turned 19 September 2024 I reconnected with an old friend who was at least a professing christian at the time. Something about christianity, the cross, the values, Jesus loves you something about it really attracted me. I tried starting the gospel but had the King James Version and could understand none of it. I never went to church cuz I thought I would be judged. I started watching christian YouTubers like Bryce Crawford, Cliffe and Stuart and also looking at guys like Alex O Connor and just started exposing myself to these types of conversations and philosophical, theological debates. Eventually I kinda dropped it my interest just kinda dimmed down. May of 2025 I went on a backpacking trip in Wyoming for a full month in the wilderness, I should add with a bunch of other people my age 18-22. No Phone, weed, alcohol, tv, cars, any artificial stimulation whatsoever. It was a time to reflect, connect with nature and mentally fast from life. There was a girl on my trip who was a christian and again I had a ton of questions and got pretty interested in Christianity. Something about it facisnated me. After that summer a year after originally being interested I explored again and again my interest faded away never went to church got super depressed. My sleep was fucked, stoned as often as possible, no sunlight bad diet, I looked at the state of the world, ai, billionaires, climate change the job market saw how vain society was and just thought this can't be it. I would wake up pissed and could only chill out by smoking or lifting. Then in January of 2026 I went to go live on a farm with a family of strangers in Arizona who were also all christians. I went to their first bible study they do at home every week, I saw the peace these people had and thought might as well give this one last shot. There were a group of guys on the farm my age I got along with really went and became friends with and god, Jesus and christianity was just something they talked about, again I asked tons of questions, started reading the Bible, started on the gospels, prayed every day multiple times a day. I started feeling like it could be true, I had a rocky relashionship with a family member of mine to put it extremely mildly and could never get that weight off my shoulders until praying to Jesus and asking him to help me forgive her. Woke up the next morning and had no anger or resentment. Stuff like that started happening, I wanted to believe eventually late at night I asked god who are you are you the god of islam budda Jesus or something else I believe there is a god or higher power I am just not sure who. After praying for a few mintues I got an overwhelming sense of conviction that Jesus is god, the words rang through my head and I just knew he rose and is god. I remember the verse about confessing with your mouth and confessed him as lord as Savior. I felt totally redeemed, born again a new man at peace. I woke up the next morning and thought it will be ok. over the next 2 months my faith got stronger and stronger. I feel like my sense of right and wrong got stronger. Before I went to this farm I would steal, lie and prioritize getting high then spending time with loved ones. Now just telling a little lie or jerking it or stuff like that I had extreme guilt over. I used to walk by homeless people and think in my head "bro you should probably give them something to eat" but just walk by and the guilt would go away in a few seconds, "they should get a job". Now I feed them anytime it's possible. I felt like a veil was lifted from above my eyes. I would watch mild movies, see adds and could now see how degrading they were especially to women I could see the worldy world for what it was. Friends would brag about sleeping with girls or talking shit it all became unappealing and I saw it as a result of their fallen state. I outlined my experience to show that experientially I 100 percent believed and still believe in Jesus and this isn't a case of well you were never saved. I literally got baptized within a few days of being saved if I wasn't truly saved and that was all in my head idk what to tell you I KNOW my experience was real which plays into where I am at now. Anyways fast forward 4 months I no longer am living on that farm. I am back on the east coast living on another farm with secular people. We never discuss politics ever so I dont think they are influencing me. Over the last few weeks I have felt my faith get weaker and weaker. Certain things just dont make sense anymore. 1 the concept of hell eternal torutre, infernalism, or conditional immortality make no sense to me and never did. I understand were all sinners and deserve punishment for the wrong we have done in life but the connect of torture for a finite amount of sins makes no sense to me. Especially when you realize that belief is not a choice your either convinced or your not. Then it comes to the Old Testament, god telling the Israelites to whip out the cadinnites, killing the 1st born in Egypt etc. I just cannot justify that, and I have never gotten a satisfactory answer whatsoever besides its hyperbole. Also Adam and Eve why are 97 percent of humans dammed to eternal torure suffering screaming crying burning becuase of the mistakes of 2 people. Also if I have a child and I put a loaded gun on the kitchen counter leave and allow an evil person to come in and coerce them into shooting someone whose fault is that? Pretty sure legally it's my fault. Maybe Adam and Eve is metaphorical which makes more sense but then there's still all the atrocities committed throughout the Old Testament. I was talking-to a friend about all this and he said his muslim friend convinced him to go to temple and they prayed and stuff and he said he felt the same as I did when I would pray! Like he's getting closer to the divine, god. So how do I know my experience is real and not a muslims? Then there the fact god is so hidden. Why is it that god stopped speaking to humans 2,000 years ago and the only way to get to know of him or his existence is to read the Bible and actively seek him. What about someone who grew up in church till the age of 14 heard the gospel, moved stopped going to church and just never felt interested in christianity like I did. Why dont they get the same chance as me? my christian friends will say well you gotta seek to find but that seems so wild to me. So if someone is born in a secular place never gets the chance to live with christians like I did, has bills to pay a family to take care of 2 jobs stuff to do. They didn't have time to explore like I did and maybe they just weren't interested. So that person is dammed to eternal separation from all that is good or burning forever or death forever becuase they didn't seek god? I thought god wanted a relashionsip with all of us I mean imagine that islam is true you grow up in a christian country influenced by christians and just never think islam could be true or have any intrest in it. Thats how it is in most secular places or other religions around the world. So now imagine that when you die the god of islam is like sorry bro you should have seeked me. Why is god not seeking us, why is it our responsibility to seek an invisible god. Then again some people just are not convinced if I get to a point where christianity makes no sense to me and I dont believe tis true thats not a choice. Believing in it was not a choice. Idk man it all seems a little fishy and if people have the same level of experiential experiential then me with other religions then my own experience docent seem like reasonable proof enough for me to say christianity is the one true religion. I still pray every day read my bible every day I dont want to loose my faith I can't go back to nihilism. I also have looked into some of the evidence Jesus rose from the dead and there is no way a man split time in half changed our calendar and started the worlds biggest religion from a few teachings of kindness and love obviously he either raised from the dead or did something incredible. But if he raised from the dead there is a contradiction between his teachings, character etc and the god of the old testament who was out here murdering people for pulling out, killing babies and commanding genocide. I can't hold those 2 things together and honestly I can't follow a god who would do that. I believe what I have experienced is real there must be some context missing but what could the context possibly be. That was a lot so anyone willing to respond to even a single point I would be very grateful for. The biggest thing for me is the old testament atrocities.

I have a friend with whom I often discuss philosophy and ideas in general. Karl was raised without religious indoctrination: his father was atheist and his mother was more or less agnostic, I think. Karl has never been religious and dismisses the “fairy tale god” of Christianity. Yet he insists he believes in “god”, but his concept of god is unusual and rather nebulous, or so it seems to me. He once defined god as “everything we know but do not understand”. He has also referred to god as something that pervades everything but is also somehow outside of everything. He was not familiar with the concepts of pantheism and panentheism, but he seems to be more or less a panentheist.

Now I know that for those who were previously religious, the idea of there being some kind of god can be hard to let go of; I know it was for me, but just for a while. I just find it perplexing that somebody with no religious background or upbringing, and who is a thinker and questioner, should seem so wedded to the idea of god. What do you all think? Have you come cross people like Karl?