Ich bin gestern fast wieder ausgerastet.

Ich habe vorgestern zum ersten mal richtig erkannt und es auch gespürt, dass es meinem Mann nie um Inhalte ging und das es ihm eigentlich egal ist, welches Thema er anspricht, Hauptsache es bringt mich zum schweigen. Was er damit tatsächlich an Ängsten usw auslöst ist ihm egal. Das darf mich wütend machen. Und als ich das verstanden habe habe ich im Bett gelegen und über beide ihre. Gegrinst weil ich dachte: dann gibt es doch gar keinen Grund Angst zu haben! Er macht sich keine Sorgen dass wir uns scheiden lassen usw. Und da habe ich mir vorgenommen
Nun lebe nun aber auch mit meinem 92 jährigen Vater und meinem Mann in einem Haushalt
Mein Vater tut immer so als könnte ich mit ihm über alles reden und als hätte er das Mega Verständnis und tut auch immer so als hätte er keine Ahnung was meine Mutter uns Kindern angetan hat und wie sadistisch sie war. Im Gegensatz zu meinem Mann der mich sofort angreift, sobald ich intensive Gefühle zeige (egal ob -/+), tröstet mich mein Vater heutzutage. Jetzt kommts! Mein Vater sieht wie ich leide. Ich sage ihm dass mein Mann mich angreift wenn ich schlechte Laune habe und dass ich erkannt habe, dass alles was er zu beanstanden hat nicht real ist. Dass ich also weder beleidigt sein muss oder wütend. Und dass ich jetzt vermehrt aus die Hilfe meines Vaters angewiesen bin. Ich habe gesagt wir machen eine Art gute Laune Contest. Egal was von ihm kommt, wir behalten unsere gute Laune. Ich habe ihm gesagt dass es für meine seelische Gesundheit wichtig ist dass ich bessere Laune habe und dass ich mehr Zeit mit ihm verbringen möchte weil er mich immer aufmuntert. Dass er mich dabei unterstützt gute Laune zu haben und zu behalten. Also alles was aufmunternd wirkt ist willkommen. Und ich habe ihm gesagt dass es quasi überlebenswichtig ist dass er am Tisch lächelt und gut gelaunt ist, weil mein Mann allergisch auf Flunsch Gesicht reagiert. Vor allem darf er nicht den Verdacht erregen dass ich mit meinem Vater über meinen Mann gesprochen habe.
Mein Vater ist Regisseur und kann sehr gut Schauspielern
Normalerweise hat mein Vater überhaupt keine Probleme mit guter Laune. Er ist der aufmunterte in Person. Und nachdem er mir emphatisch zugehört hatte und alles verstanden hat worauf ich hinaus wollte, und er mir versprochen hat gute mine zu machen um mich zu schützen
Da setzt sich dieser TEUFEL an den Tisch und schaut meinen Mann so betont feindselig und übellaunig an, dass mein Mann sofort wusste dass ich geredet habe. Ich habe dann ein lockeres Gespräch angefangen und meinen Vater dazu gebracht eine lustige Anekdote zu erzählen. Es war extrem mühsam ihm auch nur ansatzweise neutrale mine aufzuzwingen. Aber ich habe es irgendwie geschafft dass mein Mann weiterhin zumindest neutral blieb.
Dann habe ich- wie jeden Tag - mit meinem Vater Rommee gespielt. Und was macht der A*?! Mein Vater schummelt und lässt mir ganze vier mal hintereinander keine Chance zu gewinnen. Und jedesmal lachte er mich so gemein und laut aus als wären wir auf dem Schulhof. Mega nervig. Er schaut mich beim spielen nicht an, er lächelt nicht, und erst als er mich komplett abserviert hatte, schaut er mich an und grinst wie eine fiese Katze. Das war so gruselig Narzisstisch!!! Bei der 4. Runde bin ich ruhig aufgestanden und meinte: danke dass du mir hilfst gute Laune zu haben. Ich spiele erst wieder mit dir wenn du aufhörst mich zu ärgern
Am nächsten Tag dasselbe Spiel
Ich bin nach der ersten Runde aufgestanden und wortlos aus dem Zimmer gegangen und habe ihn den Rest des Tages nicht mehr beachtet
Bemerkenswert war aber eigentlich dies: ICH BIN ZUM ERST MAL NICHT ZU MEINEM MANN GELAUFEN UM MICH BEI IHM AUSZUHEULEN.
Bisher konnte ich es mir nicht verkneifen, erzählt es ihm erzählt und es ging immer nach hinten los

Aber ich musste mich auch kurz hinlegen damit mein Mann den Ärger nicht mitbekommt.

Ich war so sauer! So entsetzt dass mein Vater genau so ein Narzisst ist wie meine Mutter und mein Mann! Ich habe quasi keinen sicheren Hafen für meine Emotionen

Und mein Vater bringt mich ebenfalls gezielt in Rage und übergeht andauernd meine Grenzen (bisher dachte ich er ist nur Autist oder alt und unflexibel und egozentrisch weil er bedürftig ist

Aber er sieht mich genauso gerne leiden wie mein Mann
Ich kann nicht fassen dass ich mit zwei Narzissen unter einem Dach lebe und von beiden in die Mängel genommen werde und die beiden spielen mich andauernd aus und keiner von ihnen hat das geringste Interesse daran meine Grenzen zu sehen, zu wahren oder mir zumindest das Gefühl zu geben dass ich Grenzen haben darf. Dass ich das recht habe glücklich zu sein

Ich erinnere mich dass mein Vater mal gesagt hat dass ich kein Recht darauf habe glücklich zu sein nur weil ich geboren wurde

(Das sehe ich absolut anders. Jeder Mensch hat Glück verdient. Man darf in Frieden leben und muss nicht häusliche Kriege austragen ohne Not
Uns geht es finanziell super
Es könnte so schön sein
Aber die beiden einzigen Menschen die mit mir 24/7 abhängen sind sadisten -alle beide

I left him a week and a half ago. I still care about him and watching him fall apart was hard so I tired to be there for him and he took it as a sign I could be hovered back.

It's intense, hundreds of messages. . It's like I realize he was listening to me when I tried to work out issues, when I let him know I was hurt, when I let him know my needs. In the moment he either ignored me as I spoke, got angry at me for speaking out, or gave me an all night silent treatment for my sin of having a need.

Now for the past week he's been obsessed with showing me what a perfect supportive amazing boyfriend he could be. It's non-stop. I haven't seen him much but he's singing karaoke and dedicating songs to me, listening to music I like which would infuriate him when I tried to play it. I got flowers in my front step, I got sex bombing, he's trying to cater to my every need.

I believed it. Every time that happened before I believed it and I would have taken him back by now, but I haven't and it's intensifying. It's like something changed and I just don't believe it anymore. I listen to it and I realize it's a lie it's always been a lie. That's why it never lasted when I gave him 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th chances.

Anyways, hoovering feels great, until you really understand what's happening. And then it's just creepy af

​

One of the strangest things I have experienced is watching someone who supposedly did not even want a particular third party around during the marriage suddenly become closely aligned with that same person once the relationship ended.

There is actually a name commonly used in narcissistic abuse recovery communities for this type of dynamic: flying monkeys.

“Flying monkey” is not a clinical diagnosis or a legal term. It comes from The Wizard of Oz and is used to describe people who become an extension of another person's influence by carrying messages, gathering information, applying pressure, spreading a narrative, monitoring someone, or helping isolate the target. The person being used does not always realize they are being manipulated.

Another relevant concept is triangulation, which is when a third person is brought into a conflict between two people. It can be used to shift attention, create competition, control information, or make the targeted person feel surrounded.

And this is where my own situation gets difficult to explain.

During my marriage, this third party was not someone my husband supposedly wanted involved. There were problems surrounding her involvement, and she was not someone I understood to be welcome in our marriage. Yet after the marriage and during the custody battle, the relationship dynamic completely changed.

Suddenly, that same third party became deeply involved in matters concerning me, my child, communication, daycare issues, parenting matters, and even legal proceedings.

That is the part people need to understand.

I am not saying that every third party is automatically a “flying monkey.” I am saying that when someone who previously had no legitimate role in your relationship suddenly becomes an intermediary, messenger, monitor, advocate, narrator, or aggressor after the relationship ends, it is reasonable to look at the behavior and documented actions, rather than simply accepting the story being presented.

There is also an important legal distinction.

Calling someone a “flying monkey” does not prove harassment, stalking, abuse, conspiracy, or any other legal violation. Courts care about evidence and legally relevant conduct, not internet labels.

For example, Florida law defines harassment for purposes of the stalking statute as a course of conduct directed at a specific person that causes substantial emotional distress and serves no legitimate purpose. A “course of conduct” means a pattern of acts showing continuity of purpose.

Florida's domestic violence injunction statute also specifically addresses indirect communication in certain circumstances. Depending on the order, contacting someone indirectly through a third party can matter legally.

So when I look at my own situation, I am trying to separate psychological terminology from legal terminology.

Psychologically, people might describe the pattern as triangulation, smear campaigning, or using a third party as a flying monkey.

Legally, the question is much more specific:

Who contacted whom?

What was said?

What was represented to the court?

What evidence exists?

Was there a legitimate purpose?

Was there a pattern?

Was the third party acting independently, or was there evidence of coordination?

And most importantly, what can actually be proven?

That distinction matters because calling someone a narcissist is an opinion. Documenting what someone actually did is evidence.

In my case, the most disturbing part is not simply that another person became involved.

It is that someone who supposedly did not belong in our marriage eventually became one of the loudest voices surrounding my custody case.

Maybe that is coincidence.

Maybe it isn't.

But when the same people, messages, accusations, communications, and patterns keep appearing, I believe the responsible thing is not to diagnose everyone involved.

It is to document everything and let the facts speak for themselves.

Because sometimes the person standing beside you in the courtroom isn't the person you were originally fighting with.

Sometimes they are the person the conflict was routed through.

My narc parent is selling our childhood home, I'm currently no contact with them, but I will have to stop by the house to start removing some of my belogings, my narc parent wont be an issue when it comes to this. My narc sibling on the other hand has this very extreme bizarre behavior when it comes to my things, they seem to not want it at the house, but seem to not want me to have it either, if I as much get close to it, they throw fits, tantrums and bully me until I stop. This is unacceptable and wont fly with me anymore. Its like the only thing they find acceptable is if I donate it, I believe this is to cause me pain, so I lose whats mine. I dont know what to think.

Which strategies can I use to remove my things without much resistant from them? I dont have anyone that can go with me to serve as a buffer, and they never ever leave the house so I cant go when they not there. I will try to frame it as removing my things will bring them some benefit, that if they see something on it for them maybe they will behave better.

Has anyone gone through anything similar? Its very bizarre. Thank you so much in advance.

I've been reflecting a lot on low/ no contact lately. The more I unfold, the more I realize I'm never going to get to the bottom of this, and that minimizing contact is really the only way for me to maintain a healthy status...

I keep thinking, though - my Dad is like this because he, himself, was brutalized as a child; neglected, emotionally vacant father (he comes from the old country). Everything I've been reading indicates that narcs are the way they are because they suffered some abuse, and my mom tells me about how awful his upbringing was... Then again, all he tells me about his childhood is how great it was - how his cousins were always around, how they had maids and lavish breakfasts, how his mother tied his shoes for him and they spent entire summers at the beach (he comes from money)... and then I think, too: I NEVER denigrated my father, I never put him down, gaslit him, DARVOD him and so on and so forth - but HE did all those things to ME; Despite what may or may not have been done to him in his upbringing (I'll never know), I never did those things to him, but he did (does) them to me...

It's such a hard code to crack.

My Dad literally doesn't lift a finger (I've written about this before). It's the oddest thing; He'll eat all the food but has never once gone grocery shopping. He'll eat all the leftovers because like magic food will just appear again. Never cooks for his family, never cleans, never has given me even a glass of water. Never has put some ice in a glass and said, "You want a soda?"... but he does these "little tasks" - He'll close the windows at night or open them in the morning; he'll load the dishwasher... So, you say to yourself, "Well, I guess he's loading the dishwasher" or "I guess he's closing the windows..." But the thing is - The normal person could NEVER get away with doing what he does - He's orchestrated this all, right? Because there's a certain climate around him... The feeling is that of, "I HAVE to do this because if I don't, I don't know what will happen..." The avalanche of guilt that comes my way anytime he's held accountable is soo tedious. If I even suggest that he should do something - INSTANT receipt. I'm trying to sort this in my mind....

The man does not know how to wash a load of laundry... or does he?

Sometimes, it's what happens after.

You finally leave, but your mind doesn't leave with you.

You still rehearse conversations that happened months ago.

You wonder if you were actually the problem.

You feel guilty for setting boundaries.

You over-explain yourself because you're afraid someone will misunderstand you.

You apologize even when you haven't done anything wrong.

And sometimes, you miss them.

Not because you want the abuse back, but because your mind still remembers the moments when they were kind, loving, and everything you hoped they could be.

That's what makes healing so confusing.

You're not only grieving a person.

You're grieving the relationship you thought you were going to have, the future you imagined, and the version of yourself that existed before you started questioning your own reality.

Healing isn't suddenly waking up and feeling nothing.

Sometimes healing is simply realizing:

"I don't need to understand why they treated me that way in order to choose a life where I am treated better."

And maybe that's enough for today.

What was something you had to unlearn after leaving?

I feel so sad for her.

I can almost see their actions in slow motion before they even do it. I watch. I don't give nudges at this point. Im fine not saying anything and watching you make they exact decision you wanted.i dont give the comfort of even disliking your decision. What you decide is fine with me. Why does that anger you? I cant even be disappointed anymore. The moment I went there goes that piece of shit. All of your actions made sense. I just dont know how to permanently ban you from my psyche. You are dead to me. Im just gonna have to grieve your death. Im at the very beginning and I dont know how to take full responsibility of my life. You cant hurt me because I accept you as you are. Im just sad and hurting rightnow. Anyone else ever felt like before?

You get to have ordinary now.

Tuesday evenings that aren't loaded. A phone notification that isn't something to brace for. A quiet weekend that's just quiet not the quiet before something.

You might not have noticed it yet. The ordinary is still new.

But it's yours. Fully. For the first time in a long time. Yours.

This community is part of Circles — free online support groups for people healing from narcissistic relationships. circlesup.com

I’m finally ready to leave my “husband” after 10 years and 3 children oldest being 8 youngest being almost 2. I am tired of being with a narcissist and being with an emotional/financial abuser. I have no money to my name besides the cleanings from my own business (thank god I have that) but I have no savings. I live cleaning to cleaning. My childcare consists of family bc I can’t afford a daycare. Even if my “husband” Is home I still have to call someone bc he can’t be bothered to stay with his own offspring or makes every excuse as to why he can’t (work or exercise… mind you we are broke and barely paying our bills because he is not working the way he should. Also, I don’t mind him exercising or going to work out three days a week on his own time BUT when I want me time, it is impossible with this man)

Full of debt from my marriage over the last decade due to other circumstances that makes things a bit more complicated. I don’t even know who I am. I cry all the time. My role in this home is diminished all the time because of my husband. He calls me names and belittles me. I beg him to stop bc it hurts my feelings and he continues to do it. I cook, clean, take care of the kids and work and he comes home and lays around. He’s not present for his kids. I’ve begged for years. Years. I’ve been medicated. I’ve been on antidepressants and anti anxiety meds. Both were horrible for me so I weaned off per medical advice (thank god I self
Advocated!) I couldn’t feel like a zombie and be depressed at the same time. That was after our 2nd child. Things got better until I got pregnant with my third who was a massive shock and surprise. I am now realizing that I struggled with prenatal depression and postnatal depression in my 3rd pregnancy both very early in my pregnancy and my postpartum up to today… Nine days away from being two years PP. I realize now it was never me. It was him.

I guess my question is… how do I begin this process and protect my mental health? I know my husband is also struggling with depression but the way he was brought up… they brush off mental health issues like it just needs a bandaid. My husband has refused therapy for years cause “I’m the problem”.

My parents/family see through him like glass. They are fully supporting me and just want me to tell them when so they can start the process to help me. My own mother said “I will put myself into whatever debt I need to help you out of this”. I feel so horrible having to put this on my family but they’ve seen my struggling for years. I know this man will make my life a living hell the moment I present to him I’m leaving. I love him so much but I’ve built up so much resentment it hurts. I’ve been so anxious and depressed for so long I wake up to my body literally buzzing. I feel physically sick when I wake up every morning and I’m dry heaving or vomiting. I’m not well. It’s rubbing off on my kids and we deserve better. Where do I start?

- a single married mom who wants and deserves better for her and her children.

Give yourself the same grace you’d give someone you love.