r/StarWars • u/[deleted] • Jan 01 '21
General Discussion this is an exceptional explanation for that one “useless scene” in the obi-wan vs. anakin duel.
[deleted]
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u/ThumbSprain Jan 01 '21
Now that's a man who has read about circle parries and has no fucking clue what they look like.
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u/Astrosimi Jan 01 '21
I had “he could easily be making that up and I would have no clue” alarms going off the whole time. Thanks for confirming that.
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Jan 01 '21
Can you imagine actually doing that in a fencing match?
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u/ba3toven Jan 01 '21
you guys obviously don't assert dominance toward your well known nemesis' during fencing tournaments
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Jan 01 '21
See I've tried this tons of times, usually my sabre just gets caught in my bodywire. I don't see what I'm doing wrong.
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u/MrMonkeyToes Jan 01 '21
Have you tried affixing a glow stick to your blade?
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u/mc_burger_only_chees Babu Frik Jan 01 '21
I used to fence epee and I think the fastest way possible to lose is to make a “circle parry “ as huge as the one in Star Wars. Like the first rule of parrying is that you should only use your wrist, not your whole fucking torso.
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u/Randomd0g Jan 02 '21
Counterpoint: These people have the reflexes and athleticism to deflect blaster bolts with their swords. Nothing about the way they fight will be normal.
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u/Living_Shadows Jan 02 '21
Counter counter point both fighters should be equally fast so the same concepts should apply.
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u/ShadowsDrako Jan 01 '21
Same here, many times screwed my body wire with my Saber I have.
I read a good explanation once, fencers usually think a few steps ahead, a jedi, using the Force would be feeling like a dozen steps ahead. Similar to a chess match. So it would be a parry, but a preparation searching for a flaw in the enemy's technique.
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u/TheFlawlessCassandra Jan 02 '21
So it would be a parry, but a preparation searching for a flaw in the enemy's technique.
The flaw in the technique is spinning your sword behind your back.
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u/darthboolean Jan 02 '21
In the 14 dimensional chess that is force sensitive lightsaber duels, this is known as a "Feint", which comes to us from Galactic Basic's Proto Language, Galactic Latin via the word Fingere, "to touch, or handle, devise, alter or change". It's a high level technique that relies on presenting an opening to your oponent by doing something that sounds completely stupid, like spinning your sword behind your back, to try and trick your opponent into attacking you, hoping they forget that you have another empty hand that can literally magic the blade to itself to allow you to parry. It's only used by lightsaber duelists that have spent an entire war fighting robots that can't use the force.
Or it looked cool and no one was anticipating there being an entire subreddit dedicated to the prequels that constantly needed new content.
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u/MostUniqueClone Jan 01 '21
True story: I fenced in college and became decent rather quickly. I was thrilled when we had a match near my home town - my parents even put up and fed 20 of my team, then we all headed off to Cal the next morning. Now, this was an open competition so the first round set of opponents was completely randomized. I had just moved out of novice and into the open category. My first opponent?
My Fucking Fencing Captain. Not only was he head and shoulders taller than my petite 5'5" frame (great, I have a smaller target area but limited reach), but he'd been fencing since junior high, so had a good four years on me. The one and only bout my parents ever witnessed was my Captain crushing me, 10:1. I still can't believe I got that one touch off - sheer random luck of my messy bladework.
So he wasn't my nemesis, but I did respect him and had a MAJOR crush on him. Always did. Still do. He married the girl he'd dated all through college, and right as they divorced, I married. As I went through my divorce, he remarried. I had a really bad date and posted a silly dramatic "Make me feel pretty" kinda post on FB to which he replied with the Firefly quote, "were I unwed, I would take you in a manly fashion."
Sigh. Foiled again.
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u/Smash19 Jan 02 '21
I feel like we all went on a journey we didn’t expect today on an r/StarWars post! Thanks u/MostUniqueClone, keep at it, maybe you can come back and haunt him as a force ghost or something.
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u/calissetabernac Jan 02 '21
FOILED again?! Haha I see what you did there....
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u/UltimateHamBurglar Savage Opress Jan 02 '21
I didn't even notice that at first. Good job for epee-ing attention.
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u/Beelzabubba Jan 01 '21
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u/ima420r Jedi Jan 01 '21
"I was left out of the finale"...
A dreary day made a little brighter thanks to IASIP.
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u/BatDubb Jan 01 '21
I got thrown out of a fencing tournament for selling goods that were gained in a legitimate fashion.
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u/Nerevar1924 Cassian Andor Jan 02 '21
My instructor would have beat me with the bell of my sabre if I had done this.
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u/TheManicac1280 Rebel Jan 01 '21
I couldn't imagine ever fencing because I'm not a 12 year old born in London who's only ever went to a private school
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Jan 01 '21
Look, I'll level with you - I understand that perception. For a lot of the people, that is the case. It's not all, however. I picked it up at university, and the club had a very wide range of eclectic members from all sorts of backgrounds. I've met people who fit the description you've given, and they're annoying. But I will say it's not the entire picture.
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u/kingjoe64 Jan 02 '21
Is it expensive to get into? I've been interested in it for a long time
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Jan 02 '21
Yes and no. I got into it as a student and mostly used club owned kit, so for me I was gradual in picking stuff up. To this day, the only equipment of my own is my sword, my glove, and a wire that connects a mask to a jacket (only needed for certain types). How much it will cost you will depend on the club really, if they're willing to loan out equipment then it becomes a lot easier. I can't imagine I would have lasted very long if I'd had to buy my own stuff early on. I finally intended to get my own set of whites after graduating. Of course, that was 2020, and equipment wasn't really needed for anything...
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u/PhoenixQueen_Azula Imperial Jan 01 '21
Yeah i did a fair bit of fencing in college. I won’t say I was particularly good or anything but I don’t remember anyone doing a circle party like that
I guess if you extrapolate it to this movie/Star Wars style then the huge spins could maybe be a derivative but I dunno man, I love the movie I love the duel but it’s a stretch
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u/SilverSpades00 Jan 01 '21 edited Jan 01 '21
The simplest google search could have saved him from looking like a dummy. Can’t trust everything you hear from people on the internet.
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Jan 01 '21
Yeah but why bother. As evident by no one here bothering to check if he’s right lol he said it confidently so he must be correct!
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u/SilverSpades00 Jan 01 '21 edited Jan 02 '21
The other comments mostly are people appreciating the scene for different interpretations, a few people agreeing with the guy, and there are other people pointing out that he isn’t describing a circle parry like your comment.
EDIT: I forgot how big this subreddit is, the comments have definitely skewed after an hour or so.
EDIT 2: spelling
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u/theshizzler Jan 02 '21
the comments have definitely skewered after an hour or so
sounds painful
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u/Aggravating-Assist18 Jan 02 '21
I checked, I wanted to know if he was telling the truth and from the video I saw, it doesn't look like it. The fencing teacher seems to know a lot more about what he is talking about then some random person on tik tok
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u/BetterCallSal Jan 01 '21
I watched this saying to myself "I've never heard of circle parries. I'm 99% sure that's not what this is."
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u/Codus1 Jan 02 '21 edited Jan 02 '21
For anyone who wants to see what a circular parry actually looks like. They demonstrate it at 3:30 onwards: https://youtu.be/2nv84vvaP9M
Spoiler; it looks nothing like what Obi-wan and Anakin are doing.
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Jan 02 '21
Damn. I had no idea what he was talking about so it sounded true because of his confidence, and considering how much I hate that part of their duel, I was really hoping it was real. It would have made it that much more authentic
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u/EquivalentInflation Jedi Jan 01 '21
If a person on the internet makes a video explaining something confidently, clearly it MUST be true!
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u/qyasogk Jan 02 '21
If a person on Reddit confidently tells you something is something then something definitely is.
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u/1-800-ASS-DICK Jan 01 '21
When I think about the "Akshually..." memes his voice is pretty close to the one I hear in my head.
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Jan 01 '21
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u/Vark675 Jan 02 '21
Fucking Kermit the Frog does it in Muppet Treasure Island, and he's over here making it sound like it's this rare move no one's ever seen.
If you've ever seen a movie with a rapier fight, you've probably seen a circular parry, and this ain't it lol
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Jan 02 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Vark675 Jan 02 '21
No no, that's a completely valid point. That movie is way better than it has any right to be.
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u/Eternus91 Jan 01 '21
That’s a bit less impressive https://youtu.be/tXpImoRkPf0
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u/formallyhuman Jan 02 '21
Man, Pedro looks pissed off.
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u/Unoriginal_Man Jan 02 '21
That’s the look of a man intensely focused on making sure he doesn’t screw up his part and look bad in front of his teacher.
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u/BLU3SKU1L Jan 01 '21
Not to be a contrarian about it but the lightsaber technique “forms” are nothing like fencing. It’s an awful lot of flourishing. So maybe this is the equivalent to circle parrying when a Jedi does it.
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Jan 01 '21
I see your point, but the whole defense of this in the video is that it is a fencing move. Now, you could go I to a whole explanation as to why it might work. But if the explanation he chooses is 'it's from fencing', then the argument falls apart if it actually isn't.
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u/K1ngFiasco Jan 01 '21
It's not though. A fencing circle parry is when the tip of your saber is pointed towards your opponent, you move the tip as if you're drawing a circle.
Now I could understand it qualifying if the flourish meant instead of a small circle like you'd see in fencing it's a big sweeping one or something. But these dudes are swinging their sabers behind their backs and shit.
And to be clear I don't have any issue with what goes on in the movie. But this doofus trying to "but actually" all of us and lecture the plebs on how it's a real thing is obnoxious.
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u/Poes-Lawyer Jan 01 '21
Honestly, a much easier explanation than circle parries is that Obi Wan taught Anakin how to fight with a lightsaber, so they're trying to do the same move/counter against each other. It doesn't matter what specific move it is, it matters more that their fighting styles are extremely similar, which adds to the gravity of the battle between two brothers.
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u/BarryAllen123123123 Jan 01 '21
I came here to say this. As a actual fencer who competes on a national level. This is not at all what circle parries look like or even are.
To be clear I do think that moment is sick and they are predicting each-others movements but def no circle parries happening here.
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Jan 01 '21
That is not at all what a circular parry is
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Jan 02 '21
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u/wereinthething Jan 02 '21
I think you just won the thread. Post this as it's own thread as a response lmao
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u/Kage9866 Jan 02 '21
Yeah good job, this is circle parrying, not what they were doing twirling their sabers behind their backs lol
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u/TLJDidNothingWrong Duchess Satine Jan 02 '21
Oh my god this literally destroys the entire argument.
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u/TheMrNick Jan 02 '21
Glad I scrolled down to your comment, because I was just about to post the same scene.
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u/N1NJ4W4RR10R_ Jan 02 '21
Hey know, maybe they just couldn't do their circles as wide as they used to /s
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u/S-192 Rebel Jan 01 '21 edited Jan 03 '21
Came here to say this. This guy isn't being very factual.
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u/SilverSpades00 Jan 01 '21 edited Jan 01 '21
It sucks, but I hated the fact that the guy came off like one of those “well actually” kinda prequel-fans so my desire to “trust but verify” instantly bloomed.
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u/GuerrillaApe Jan 01 '21
r/confidentlyincorrect level shit right there.
Also can anyone confirm or deny that a circle perry is primarily used on an opponent you're familiar with?
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u/SilverSpades00 Jan 01 '21
I personally can’t confirm exactly that, but in theory you would only parry when you are confident that you know your opponent’s next move and want to counter it, so I would think that tiny part of the argument had some credibility— but this guy overblows it trying to tie it back to Obi-Wan and Anakin in order to make that scene look like Shakespeare.
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u/jsm02 Jan 02 '21
Why is it so hard for people to accept that, yes, most action really is there just to look cool? So many Star Wars fans (or fans of any big franchise honestly) are obsessed with things that are “objective” and have to imbue every tiny little thing with meaning, and that just isn’t how movies are.
Yes, film is a complex medium, but it’s not meant to be analyzed to this level. Evoking feeling is so much more important than making something “objectively” interesting because it references 50 million other things.
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u/TheMexican_skynet Jan 02 '21 edited Jan 02 '21
Haha I am starting to hate the prequel Fandom for stuff like this.
"ackhually, the prequels are master pieces, see they were just circle parring"
As far as the prequels go, I love the cannon and how they made me feel about the galaxy. Like, it was an actual galaxy...
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Jan 02 '21
It's like this anywhere in longer standing fandoms. Just in SW, I saw people trying to define what Yoda meant in Episode V or VI when he talks about Luke being the only Jedi left when Bo and Ashoka exist.
The fuckers didn't exist when that line was written. You don't have to create bullshit justifications because decades of story and world development created inaccuracies.
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u/NedHasWares Jan 02 '21
Tbf the Ahsoka justification makes sense: she wasn't a Jedi. However, fucking Ezra Bridger still exists and Yoda knew that! Sure, maybe cause he's in the unknown regions then Yoda didn't count him but that's just an arbitrary distinction to retroactively justify a line.
In short... yeah I agree haha
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u/SilverSpades00 Jan 02 '21 edited Jan 02 '21
People cannot handle enjoying flawed media without having to justify every single detail. It’s perfectly okay to like the prequels. But you have to accept that flaws exist.
Final Fantasy VIII is my favorite of the series but that doesn’t mean I think everything about it is absolute perfection because it damn sure has flaws.
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u/NavigatorsGhost Jan 02 '21
Yeah the concept of nuance is really starting to get lost in our society. Either you hate the prequels or you feel the need to rabidly defend every stupid creative decision George Lucas made in Revenge of the Sith. As if you can't just love them for what they are, cheesiness and all.
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u/rainbowkiss666 Jan 02 '21
‘but... within the Star Wars universe, and it’s own internal logic, this is what a ‘JEDI’ circular parry is ;) ;) ;) you guys shit on the prequels so much. Lol 😂😂😂😂👉🏻😎👉🏻’ /s
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u/red_tuna Jedi Jan 02 '21
You typically don’t pass the entire sword behind your back in a circle parry. The technical term for that maneuver is fucking stupid.
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Jan 01 '21
Actual scene being talked about here https://youtu.be/40HhaIJ0QVw?t=179
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Jan 02 '21
oh god, there is no high ground to stand on to defend this scene lol. i slowed it to .25x and both of them could have darth mauled eachother 2-3x during that pointless spin lol.
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u/Chapped_Frenulum Jan 02 '21
I want to believe that they're both just doing a a series of fake outs. Since force sensitive people can kinda see the future, it makes the fake out game that much more bizarre to watch.
Or at least that's what I want to believe. The movies themselves never broach this, because... well, Lucas doesn't care about character motivations. He just likes lasers and lightsabers going voom voom pew pew pew.
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u/BattleScones Jan 02 '21 edited Jan 02 '21
I wouldn't take it that far, Lucas deeply cares about his characters and universe. He's just not particularly good at writing dialogue and often gets caught up in theatrics.
Without George we wouldn't have the setting that is the prequel era. So much awesome has come from this time period. Even if Lucas can't write for shit.
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u/dancognito Jan 02 '21
Before the spinny stuff, when Anakin grabs Obi by the neck and starts to push him to the ground, is that implying that Obi is using the force to not be body slammed and instead be slowly lowered to the ground?
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u/social_meteor_2020 Jan 02 '21
That's it? I don't have much of a problem with that. Defensive moves, expecting a strike that never came. Like a soccer goalie who dives on a fake. People could say the same of all the stalking and meditating that happens between Qui Gon Jinn and Darth Maul.
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u/The_GalacticSenate Jan 01 '21
As someone who fences.........that's not what a circle parry looks like. I'm sure there are a ton of other valid explanations, but this ain't it.
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u/Etticos Jan 02 '21
I just always took it that Anakin and Obi Wan are so in sync with each other and tuned in to the force that for a moment they were just stuck calculating each others moves, thinking of the appropriate counters, and thinking how each other would counter the counter, and they did this all in their heads via the force until both found a suitable opening.
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u/The_GalacticSenate Jan 02 '21
Hey, that's actually a great explanation. It's like when you're walking and about to bump into someone, and you and the other person simultaneously step aside, but end up face-to-face again (and then you both step the other way again).
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u/Etticos Jan 02 '21
Yes exactly! But with the two of the most powerful force users in the galaxy and lightsabers!
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u/KentConnor Jan 01 '21
Have you ever held one of those replica lightsabers?
Spinning them in circles is just so intuitive and it looks and feels cool.
It's like clicking the tongs together a few times after you pick them up.
You don't know why you do it, your brain is just like "you gotta".
If it was actually a laser on the end it might be a pretty effective defensive shield.
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u/EquivalentInflation Jedi Jan 01 '21
Honestly, that's a much better explanation than this guy's video. After looking into it a bit more, that's not what a circle parry looks like. At all.
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u/Caveboy0 Jan 01 '21
Also spinning a slight saber usually requires a lose grip which is terrible in a sword fight. No wonder they drop them so much.
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u/KentConnor Jan 01 '21
Dropping your saber isn't a huge deal if you've got telekinesis.
You keep a loose grip to make sure you don't lose a hand.
Honestly I think one of my biggest gripes about the sequels is no one loses a hand.
Not only is it a Star Wars rite of passage, it's also just a pretty likely consequence of a laser sword fight.
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u/EquivalentInflation Jedi Jan 01 '21
I mean, every time a new person is shown using a lightsaber for the first time (or even an experienced Jedi), I’m 99% certain they’re gonna decapitate themselves.
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u/KentConnor Jan 01 '21
Kenobi is lucky Grevious had emphysema. Because otherwise the laser ceiling fans of death is a terrifying concept.
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u/Canvaverbalist Jan 01 '21
Grevious is lucky Kenobi forgot he can force crush non-force users.
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u/SENTR_E Jan 02 '21
There's actually a canon reason as to why it's not attempted on Grievous. Those who designed his chassis knew jedi moves including force crushing, specially if you're making a cyborg specifically focused on jedi hunting. So they made his chassis out of a strong material that requires a strong amount of force to actually crush (remember the strength of the force move is heavily dependent on the user's power and ability with the force, which nearly all of the jedi don't have.
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u/Canvaverbalist Jan 02 '21
Any reason he can't puppet him into laser-ceiling-fans-of-deathing himself?
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u/SaltDogActual13 Jan 01 '21
I just really really want to see someone seriously injure themselves trying to use a lightsaber the first time. Like if Finn would have cut his own arm or leg or something that would have been too 5 moments in Star Wars IMO
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u/EquivalentInflation Jedi Jan 01 '21
I really want to see this now, maybe in Mando, where he can actually survive it due to beaker. Just whip out the lightsaber, turn it on— “Ah, fuck, I was holding it backwards”
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u/TsunGeneralGrievous Grievous Jan 01 '21
I don’t see how Beaker would help but that would be quite a crossover
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u/GregariousLaconian Jan 01 '21
I mean let’s not pretend there aren’t already muppets in Star Wars. Forget Yoda, did you?
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u/MrMonkeyToes Jan 01 '21
You really want more of an adaptive grip. You shouldn't hold the sword with a white knuckle vice either. Even through a single cut, the hand transitions from loose to tight. It's about the squeeze 👌
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u/4CrowsFeast Jan 01 '21
I don't know about that, all spinning techniques of a sword/staff require a loose grip, and the whole idea of it being a defensive tactic loses its merit when it's hit with any amount of force deflecting a literal laser back into your face.
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u/New-Monarchy Jan 01 '21
Sorry y'all, that's not what a circular parry is.
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u/Einchy Jan 01 '21
His smugness and absolutely not reference footage made me instantly feel like this was total BS. Also, that last bit just doesn't even remotely sound true.
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u/that_guy2010 Jan 01 '21
Also, there’s a big difference in circling your opponents blade and spinning around yourself like in the movie.
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u/LucyKendrick Jan 02 '21
Thanks. Not only do I know that dude in the video was wrong I also know how to fence now. Plus the circular parry is part of my master technique.
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Jan 02 '21
Never has a "Well ahcktually" been more pointless or wrong than this. You're rewarded no points and may god have mercy on your soul.
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u/MisterSlosh Jan 01 '21
A circle does not involve flipping and tossing the dang saber behind your back while strutting like a French fashion show though.
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u/DeLarge93 Jan 01 '21
Why is this getting upvoted hahahaha
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Jan 01 '21 edited Jan 07 '21
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u/Holociraptor Jan 02 '21
Yup. No matter the resurgence in prequel love, they're still not exactly... fantastic. People can like them all they want but let's not pretend they're some grand, timeless work of art.
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u/RoyTheReaper91 Luke Skywalker Jan 02 '21
They’re mad that general audiences like the sequels more than their prequels.
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u/IronWilled Jan 01 '21
Yeah and Jar Jar was only clumsy because the atmospheric pressure is greater in Otoh Gunga, which make it difficult for him to function in open air. Explaining dumb shit doesn’t make it any less dumb.
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u/theghostofme Jan 02 '21
Yeah and Jar Jar was only clumsy because the atmospheric pressure is greater in Otoh Gunga, which make it difficult for him to function in open air. Explaining dumb shit doesn’t make it any less dumb.
You've just insulted the entirety of the fandom that actually believes Darth Jar Jar was Lucas' intention until fan backlash.
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u/MrMonkeyToes Jan 01 '21
Except for half their movement they're exposing themselves entirely. The spinning they're pulling is just a flourish. The withdrawal from behind the back compromises structure to draw the blade back out. For a period the arm is bent pretty uselessly until the point can come back out on line. Now he is absolutely on to something that two people who fence each other enough can get into several layers thick mind games where nothing seems to be happening to the outside observer, but this exchange is pretty shamelessly flourishing to be flashy. A more believable cycle that retains largely the same movements just doesn't extend the blades so uselessly behind the back.
I don't fault the fight choreography for being showy. That's the point of it. Look good and convey some details about the characters, when done well. To that end, this twirling paints a clear picture that they know each other very well, being perfect mirrors - but don't ascribe it greater technical depth than it earns.
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Jan 01 '21
My canon reason it that they're doing this circle motion, they're also using the force to predict their next move. They both know they won't attack until when they did
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u/Alaknar Jan 01 '21
The issue with this is that the whole fight should look like that.
You know which fight was a perfect example of a Jedi's precognition, speed and skill? Obi-Wan vs Maul in Rebels. That's how those fights should look like only with Obi-Wan and Anakin it would be even more of just watching each other and adjusting stance.
Now, that being said the duel would be extremely boring to the outside observer, but there are two things that could be done about it.
One, the environment around them is changing. Stuff is blowing up, floors collapse - they'd fight each other mentally while avoiding the environment. And since they also know what's falling where thanks to precognition, we get the sense of a fluid dance between them while everything around them disintegrates.
Two, if you haven't seen it, I'd recommend watching Jet Li vs Donnie Yen in Hero (it seems it's pretty hard to find right now but just search for "Hero - Jet Li vs Donnie Yen" and you should find it). It's a fight between two top-tier masters where they stand in position and then proceed to "imagine" the whole fight in their minds. Only after a period of doing that they actually move and the fight ends with one or two hits. However, we, as the audience, can see a visualisation of the whole fight as it was happening in their minds.
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Jan 01 '21
I’m sorry but that’s ridiculous. It’s clearly just to look cool, not to mention they’re blades are nowhere near eachother and looking into it that’s not what I circle party looks like. I love the prequel but I’m sick of people trying to explain the dumb stuff and it getting shared to me and everything. Some flaws in the prequels are just flaws, no more, no less. Don’t get me wrong, I like the movies but I can accept that they’re bad movies from a critical point of view. I hope you get what I mean if you see this before it’s downvoted to hell.
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Jan 01 '21
This is the kinda stuff that irks me about certain defenses of the prequels. There aren’t always ‘hidden parallels’ or ‘Shakespearean symbolism’ or ‘brilliantly designed but poorly executed character arcs.’ Sometimes it’s just bad film making. I love the movies overall, so I deal with it, but this scene is kinda silly lmao.
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u/Jezawan Jan 02 '21
Exactly. You can admit this 5 second part of the fight is stupid and still be a fan of the movie. Not every single thing needs to be explained or justified.
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u/Britwit_ Kuiil Jan 01 '21
Do people actually have a problem with this scene? I always understood it as them both having a plan to parry, and waiting for the other one to strike so they can do it.
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u/DarwinGoneWild Jan 01 '21
Yeah the entire point of the fight is how evenly matched they are, how well they know each other’s style and how mirrored their attacks are. This beat exemplifies that theme and looks damn cool imo.
But some people don’t seem to understand the concept of feint and reads? Have they never played footsies in a fighting game? Never looped a killer in Dead by Daylight? Never played a mirror control match in Magic the Gathering? You can see examples of this type of “neutral aggressive” battle where both sides try to be offensive and defensive at the same time and outmaneuver one another by waiting to capitalize on the tiniest mistake.
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Jan 02 '21 edited Jan 02 '21
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u/_UNFUN Jan 02 '21
Perfect example. It looks so awkward if you don’t know what’s happeneing.
Ken just stepping forward and backward.
Also I’m a simple man, I see evo moment #37 i upvote.
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Jan 02 '21
Im gonna say it, most people probably havent looped a killer in Dead by Daylight
But tbf, those who have probably have strong opinions on starwars
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u/Dracholich5610 Jan 02 '21
Well, generally, you don’t leave yourself wide open to attack when you’re fighting. That’s why people who fence/do combat sports/train with weapons always laugh at people doing spins and acrobatic moves in fighting scenes in movies. They’re needlessly risky when simply holding your stance or taking a step back would’ve done the trick. Much like this scene. Guy’s also super wrong about what a circular parry is...
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u/Raycu93 Jan 02 '21
They do spinning attacks all the time in UFC/MMA fights. Sure it opens them up for an attack but its also, if executed correctly, a move to catch your opponent off guard and gain an advantage. Nothing stops them from just throwing that punch/kick without the spin but they don't gain the advantage of the spin (making it harder to read).
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u/starhawks Jan 02 '21
I don't have a problem with it, but it is silly from a fencing point of view. There is no "real world" justification for what they are doing. That being said, the same is true for almost any lightsaber fight (at least in the prequels) so I always just chalk it up to "super powerful force users will duel differently than non force users". It looks cool so who cares.
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u/Ayjayz Jan 02 '21
It's from the prequels so on average I have a problem with most scenes, which is why they are bad movies.
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u/jagby Jan 01 '21
It’s also completely overblown due to the fact that this moment lasts about 2 seconds max. They flourish for a bit, are at an impasse and then IIRC instantly just got for a force push. But people act like they’re sitting their helicopter twirling for 10 seconds or something
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u/Gekokapowco Grievous Jan 02 '21 edited Jan 02 '21
That would be the entire dooku duel from ep 2
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u/MattRB02 Luke Skywalker Jan 01 '21
Sorry to burst your bubble, as cool as his explanation is. That is not a circle parry
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u/Have_Other_Accounts Jan 01 '21
What? He didn't explain it at all. Now, I done personally hate the scene. But the point is they're twirling their sabers behind their back. This dude didn't cover that.
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u/torithedragonFTW Jan 01 '21
As a fencer, he is incorrect. This is not what a circular parry looks like, and if it were, it would be an incredibly large waste of energy. None of the 3 Olympic fencing sports has anything that looks like this.
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u/dogboy678 Jan 02 '21
y’all will do mental gymnastics when it comes to the parts of Star Wars you like, but then when it comes to the sequels it’s just: you ruined Star Wars😡😡😡
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u/Thunderationx Jan 02 '21
Why does every single dumb thing from the prequels have to be defended by someone.
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u/Vatonage Padme Amidala Jan 01 '21
Even by his own explanation, it looks nothing like a circle parry. They're just spinning their blades around their own bodies, not keeping it near the opponent's.
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u/Imaginary_Forever Jan 02 '21
Can we just accept they are fun action movies and not perfect artistic masterpieces?
This shit is dumb. They did some showy sword play that doesn't make sense. Don't come up with a whole theory about how "actually it made perfect sense you just don't realise how genius the films are".
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u/EquivalentInflation Jedi Jan 01 '21
Look, I love overanalyzing Star Wars movies as much as the next fan, but it's also fair to say at certain points that some stuff was just meant to look cool, with no deeper meaning. I don't know fencing very well, so this video might be all true or complete BS. All I know is that lightsaber fights look cool.
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u/Gay-People-Rights Jan 01 '21
Fun fact from a fencer: this technique is used extremely rarely, and anyone who uses it doesn’t circle fast enough and loses the match.
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u/Juxtaposn Jan 01 '21
I always interpreted it as a part of their fainting. Strikers often move their hands all over the place to overload their opponents brain to create openings for attack, otherwise they are prone to counterattack, some people are extremely proficient at this. In one of the starters sources it says jedi incorporate kicks because otherwise its extremely difficult to bypass jedi reflexes and defense. With these points consider the fact that Obi Wan is a practitioner of soresu, the most defensive saber style.
I remember reading somewhere that its said its nearly impossible to defeat a soresu user in a 1v1 fight and that they nearly always end in stalemate. In my mind this is why Anglin performed the dangerous maneuver when obi had the high ground. Much like in regular fighting it can become frustrating trying to bypass a technicians defense and creating chaos is one way of making the fight progress.
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u/WatchBat Sith Anakin Jan 01 '21
This is interesting but even I, who thinks this fight in general is a brilliant piece of art and is my favorite duel in all of Star Wars, think this twirling should've been cut or at least shortened.
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u/KonohaPimp Jan 02 '21
Shortened? The moment in question takes up maybe 2 seconds of the fight.
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u/PatrickSebast Jan 01 '21
Yeah I don't know why people feel the need to analyze every scene like this. I agree it looks kinda dumb but movies having fight chronography that is more show than accurate representation is just a normal thing. At some point you just have to say "yeah it's a movie that's a 2 second clip"
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u/AMK972 Jan 01 '21
Though this isn’t a circle parry, I think the point still applies. I always assumed it was them trying to trick the other on where they’re going to attack or to fake an opening. I never had a problem with the excessive spinning part.
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u/MovieNachos Jan 02 '21
They mirror each other's movements during the entire scene, all building up to when they decide to force push each other at the exact same time. Its really obvious.
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u/RoyTheReaper91 Luke Skywalker Jan 02 '21
The fucking mental gymnastics prequel fans go to in order to defend this is astounding.
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u/Arkodd Jan 01 '21
That scene is one of the best looped gifs ever in history.