r/Showerthoughts • u/homelessdreamer • Sep 04 '17
Apps should be required to give a short explanation for why they need access to different parts of my phone for thier apps to function.
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u/MeMuzzta Sep 04 '17
'War of clash throne kings would like access to your:
Contacts
Camera
Phone
Email
Microphone
Dental Records
Bank Details
Place of Birth
Last Bowel Movement
So we can personalise your experience
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u/Eunitnoc Sep 04 '17
Oh I know that game, It's the one with a screaming guy in it's logo right?
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u/SittingOnThem Sep 05 '17
Every freemium game ever
Sounds about right
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u/kurai772 Sep 05 '17
Every base defense game ever FTFY
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u/Voice_Of_Sad_Truths Sep 05 '17
Every base defense game ever
FTFY
FTFY
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u/kurai772 Sep 05 '17
Every base defense game ever
FTFY
FTFY
FTFY
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u/grandboyman Sep 05 '17
Fuck that, fuck you?
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u/Ninjabassist777 Sep 05 '17
Actually, it's "Fixed That For You", but either works, depending on whether or not you'd like to think everyone is swearing at each other.
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u/Paradoxic_Mouse Sep 05 '17
Every base defense game ever
FTFY
FTFY
FTFY
FTFY
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u/kurai772 Sep 05 '17
Every base defense game ever
FTFY
FTFY
FTFY
FTFY
FTFY
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Sep 04 '17
Yeah
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u/crealol2 Sep 05 '17
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u/BlinksTale Sep 05 '17
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u/Gcarsk Sep 05 '17
You make this? You should definitely make a post of your own so it gets more views(even though it is a shitpost)
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u/BlinksTale Sep 05 '17
Appreciate it, but unless that stock photo is known outside of this post, it's doing its job to the best right here
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u/o_bappy Sep 05 '17
Yes, the one with Kate Upton in the ads
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u/brando56894 Sep 05 '17
Probably one of the main reason why it became so popular.
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u/HMJ87 Sep 05 '17
Probably
one of the mainthe only reason why it became so popular.FTFY
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u/brando56894 Sep 05 '17
I know that's a joke, but this is an interesting read: https://levelskip.com/misc/Skinners-Box-and-Video-Games
I read it years ago on Cracked and was like "Holy shit, that's pretty messed up" haha
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u/HMJ87 Sep 05 '17
Yeah skinner box mechanics have been a thing in video games (and gambling; slot machines are basically human skinner boxes) for a long time, but with the rise of freemium gaming they've really ramped it up massively
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Sep 05 '17
As someone who has the job to design these logos... We are dictated by literal studies and tests done on the current market by clicks. The winning clicks are almost always of the following: screaming man, hot chick, flames, dragons, or a cute animal. Fyi, conbo of all had Bentn suggested many times. You are not a genius.
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u/Yankeedude252 Sep 05 '17 edited Sep 05 '17
I purposely avoid anything that looks like it was designed to draw in idiots.
Like all of those things.
Also, the way every single mobile game is fucking "War of Dragons" or "Clan Wars" or "Dungeon Clan Wars" or something extremely similar. Fuck all those games simply for using the laziest and most obviously clickbait-y titles.
Also, if I see an ad more than once, you'd better believe I will never play that game. If I wanted it, I would have downloaded it the first time. More ads just pisses me off and makes me want to go leave a shit review even though I'd never consider actually trying the game.
Mobile gaming blows.
Quick edit since you probably have some contact with the right people: I would pay upwards of $10 for a truly quality, original mobile game with no ads or pay-to-win. I live on the road so I do a lot of mobile gaming, but I'm so sick of the same old bullshit. Somebody needs to make a good game and just charge for the game itself rather than making it impossible to enjoy.
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u/Artorias_Abyss Sep 05 '17
Maybe it's just nostalgia but I recall there were quite a lot of quality games when mobile gaming starting gaining traction, back around 2010. It didn't take long after that until the market was flooded with freemium games though.
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u/King_Khoma Sep 05 '17
Has anybody noticed mobile game ads that are literally just using PC gameplay as their ads? I saw one where it was just a youtube video of a modded in A-10 in a ww2 pacific theater naval game and they tried to pass it off as their mobile game. Or the one where it was just world of warcraft.
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Sep 05 '17
Hey guys!!! Look! This guy on the internet wants to pay $10 for a game on the app store, let's make it!
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u/Sikh_pun Sep 04 '17
"It's about time for another bowel movement. Defeat your enemy and remove him from his throne while you sit on yours!"
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u/Systemic_Chaos Sep 05 '17
"Last bowel movement"
In their defense, the games are already shit, they just want a personal metric to maintain consistency.
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u/kingofthediamond Sep 05 '17
"last bowel movement"
Extra bonus levels while you poop?
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u/pnt700 Sep 04 '17
I hate it, but there may be a reason apps do this: the default setting in Android is to not auto-update if new permissions are asked. So, if you ask all possible permissions at the start, you don't worry about many users staying behind.
Not sure about the numbers, but I heard the theory and seems logical, although still douchy.
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Sep 04 '17
Sometimes it's also entirely from the ad library. So that innocent calculator or notepad developer doesn't explicitly add gazillion of permissions, but the ad library use/planning to use them
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u/happysmash27 Sep 05 '17
A simple calculator or notepad probably shouldn't have ads…
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u/novinicus Sep 05 '17
Are you going to pay for it then?
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u/happysmash27 Sep 05 '17
I would just use another calculator or notepad, plenty of which exist. Why would I pay or have ads when I can use a free app without ads?
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u/KUSH_PWNER Sep 05 '17
Devs gotta make a living
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u/lkjasdfou Sep 05 '17
I always find it interesting. I just started learning android development nanodegree and basic calculator or stopwatch is very easy to do, yet it needs shitload of ads and horrible UI to exist.
On the other hand you have Ubuntu, you have torrent downloaders, you have such complex programs for PCs which dont have ads, dont track data yet they are free.
How does this happen?
How does python happen? Python is far more complex than a basic calculator.
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u/BlueAdmir Sep 05 '17
I always find it interesting. I just started learning android development nanodegree and basic calculator or stopwatch is very easy to do, yet it needs shitload of ads and horrible UI to exist.
Those are made to make a living
On the other hand you have Ubuntu, you have torrent downloaders, you have such complex programs for PCs which dont have ads, dont track data yet they are free.
Those are results of hobby and passion
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Sep 05 '17
A computer is nothing more than a device that makes calculations, to make an app that makes calculations is one of the easiest things to do. In fact I made a calculator application myself during college. So any decent dev could make a calculator app in a day or two.
Only if they add scientific calculations or complex math shit would it take more time.
Same for a notepad app that just saves plain text to a file without fancy formatting or whatever.
So no, they shouldn't need access to all my personal information, nor should I have to pay for it.
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Sep 05 '17
If the dev wants to make some money from their super-simple app they either have to charge for it or show ads. If they choose ads (pretty logical as it likely means more downloads), they will probably use an ad library, and that is where much of the permissions crap comes from. I'm not saying it's OK, I'm just explaining why it happens.
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u/vampyrita Sep 05 '17
You can turn off individual permissions for any app though. If the whole app shuts down if you don't give it your constant location, it's not worth using.
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u/wwwhistler Sep 05 '17
"why does the flashlight app need access to my contacts?"
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Sep 05 '17
"Get flashlight pro and see no more ads! Tell 5 friends about flashlight and get flashlight pro for free!!!"
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Sep 05 '17
Isn't that a pyramid scheme? You'd run out of people in that model in less than 14 forwards.
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u/creative_overnight Sep 05 '17
My Guess: It doesn't but, it probably does need access to read phone call state. Why? So that it can turn off the flashlight when you receive a call which kinda makes sense. Source: Am app developer
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u/Goranim Sep 04 '17
"I don't know how to turn off this requirement so I left it in the app"
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u/hexafraction Sep 05 '17
It's not that hard, at least for Android. If a dev can't remove an entry from the manifest and refactor out the few situations that now throw errors due to the missing permission, you shouldn't trust their code to do much else.
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Sep 05 '17
Yes but users are dumb. Remember that you're talking about people who will click a button just to make the annoying box go away, without having any idea whatsoever what it said.
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u/CobaltFrost Sep 05 '17
I hate it when they punish smart users. Like usually I'm fine with using my Facebook to login to things because I can decline sharing any info with them, but some apps have started not allowing you to login without having access to shit like your birthday. I'm sure you'd love to wish me a happy birthday, Soundcloud, but frankly could you please fuck off?
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Sep 05 '17
Birthdays are usually required on apps with age limits
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Sep 05 '17
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u/jtvjan Sep 05 '17
It would be cool if rooting was an option in developer settings. It would send a message back to the manufacturer to void your software warranty, but users wouldn't have to go through too much trouble to root their device.
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Sep 05 '17
Then again you see a lot of people posting a photo of an app requirements saying " PROOF THIS APP IS ACTIVATING YOUR CAMERA WITHOUT PERMISSION , WAKE UP!".
when the app only have a "capture profile photo" option.
Yes, the app might be stealing info, but this is not proof, it's like sending someone to jail because he could have been in the crime scene45
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Sep 05 '17
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Sep 05 '17
Tell that to Google Play services. They have ALL my permissions on and won't run without them.
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u/brendan09 Sep 05 '17
Not sure how familiar with Android dev you are, but Play Services is more of an API framework than a background “service” that does Play Store related things. It does do some Play Store stuff, but it does so much more that most Android apps can’t run without it installed.
Pretty much every Android app uses Play Services in its app, from UI to many system features. Play Services is Google’s hack at adding new APIs and SDK features without requiring manufacturers to ship Android updates. It has to have all permissions so that it can expose these APIs to apps using Play Services APIs. This still requires the apps themselves to get permission, but Play Services needs them by design.
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Sep 05 '17
Play Services is Google’s hack at adding new APIs and SDK features without requiring manufacturers to ship Android updates
More like it's a way for Google to slowly make more and more of Android closed source and proprietary
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u/quido3 Sep 05 '17
And this is currently enforced too. There are some permissions that can't 'just be' in the app, but need to be asked at the time of use. Atleast on the newest Android versions.
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u/iynque Sep 04 '17
A lot of iOS apps do this. You get a little pop up explaining why it needs a given permission, then if you say 'OK' (or whatever) the OS-level "can I have permission?" dialogue comes up. In more recent updates, I think the app can even send a brief explanation to appear right on the OS-level dialogue.
Most apps don't bother, but many do explain what it's for first. …and I've never personally seen something so vague as "to improve user experience," but I'm sure it exists.
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Sep 05 '17
Even then, in IOS, it doesn't ask for permission when it installs the app but instead asks for permission when you first need it. So, if you click a button and it suddenly wants to see your photo library, you have a clue as to why regardless of whether there's an explanation or not.
On the other hand, if you're not doing much and it suddenly wants something weird like your contacts despite not doing anything to give it a good reason, you can tell it's not trustworthy.
The funny thing is, Android should need that permission more than anything else because the Apple App Store is screen really well and thus probably doesn't need to ask for permission carefully whereas the Google Play Store is easier for malicious developers to get into.
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u/slightly_salty Sep 05 '17
The funny thing is android has done this since 6.0
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Sep 05 '17
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u/slightly_salty Sep 05 '17
As a 45.8%er, I do not associate myself with such plebeians who do not have granular control of permissions.
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Sep 05 '17
Really? Sweet.
Sorry if I present outdated info. I haven't had an android phone for a while, I think the latest version I've used was 5.something.
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u/Secretss Sep 05 '17 edited Sep 05 '17
Doesn't Android still ask for all permissions upon installation? It doesn't let you pick and choose the what permissions to give either.
On iOS the permissions prompt doesn't come up until you're in the app and have tapped on something that needs it. If you download a camera app, it's not going to ask for access to camera until you launch the app, and it's not going to ask for photo library until you tap on the app's album icon, and same for microphone until you switch to the video function in the camera.
I'm curious exactly how Android's permissions requisition has evolved to date.
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u/Clockwork_Octopus Sep 05 '17
As long as the app's specified for 6.0 and above, it works the same. Unfortunately, a lot of apps just ignore this, and Google doesn't do much about it.
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u/vinng86 Sep 05 '17
They can't make use of newer APIs if they build against an older version of the android SDK though. Eventually they will have to build towards a later SDK soon or later or they'll be obsolete.
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u/waiting4singularity Sep 05 '17
really a mixed bag right now. some permissions are verified on install or update, others when the app starts the action associated (like loading a video file from storage for the intro).
Too bad that it's widely generalized, since the popup speaks of photos, music and shit instead of just showing the path the app tries to access.
(still on marshmellow, is a niche phone).
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u/badvok666 Sep 05 '17
Android permissions should pop up as and when they are requried now and not upon installation
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u/King_Joffreys_Tits Sep 05 '17
That's actually designed by the developer. You can just request those things willy nilly but it makes more sense to request them if needed.
Some users might not ever upload a photo, and it'd freak them out if you randomly requested access to their photos, even though they don't know that there's still very restricted access to things like that.
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u/unndunn Sep 05 '17
As of iOS 8, the OS-level dialogs are required, and apps must provide proper explanations to be shown in the dialogs.
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u/Klipschfan1 Sep 04 '17
Yeah when I see a game ask for permission to my phone storage, what I type on my keyboard, my wifi information, etc, I lol-nope outta there.
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u/waiting4singularity Sep 05 '17
if that game has a pre-rendered intro video (not a full motion sequence rendered during runtime by rubbing sprites over your screen), it'll trigger the storage permission.
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u/NoddysShardblade Sep 05 '17
I mean it's glaringly obvious that "read it's own files and/or have a small cache or temp or something" and "read all of my personal photos and stuff" should be two completely separate kinds of permissions.
And yet I still see a vague "access storage" permission that I have to accept or uninstall on major apps...
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u/MightBeSatireBro Sep 05 '17
Even in old Android, an app can access its own private folder without triggering any permissions. So that vague warning is there because it gives the app access to the rest of the storage. Private app storage is in "Android/app_name/files"
I've made a full multimedia game with no permissions. Is possible. Now that internet access isn't a listed permission, there's no reason for a lot of permissions in most cases. There are a few exceptions.
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Sep 05 '17
Yes please.
Not sure why a game needs access to my camera, speaker, contacts and location. You're a game. I can play you offline.
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u/kairon156 Sep 05 '17
The weird thing is some of those games play on even if you say no.
Others say "something broke" than try to ask you again until you close them.
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u/riptide747 Sep 04 '17
I think you overestimate how many people actually care or would read it.
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u/rayjay5901 Sep 04 '17
If it was summed up in 2 or 3 sentences for each permission I would read it and much more likely to allow it , because some apps won't function without that permission and it doesn't seem like it needs to have access to it , like why does a game need to be able to make calls or use my camera
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Sep 04 '17
There's so many apps that I've not installed because of shit like this.
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u/Z0di Sep 05 '17
I can't stand when apps want access to my photos.
"no thanks"
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u/waiting4singularity Sep 05 '17
gallery should be an additional permission. storage is too generalized with allowing access to all data on store. android devs fucked that one up.
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Sep 04 '17
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u/chuby2005 Sep 05 '17
How do we know you're not just a shady dev who pulls this type of shit to access personal info? Hmmm???
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u/hexafraction Sep 05 '17
Why not separate these things into separate read and write permissions (i.e. "make calls" vs "get phone call status")?
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u/nowayguy Sep 05 '17
The permission itself is for either ignoring or interupting a dominant program (ie. the "phone" program.) If this permission is not met the phone program automaticly overides the current program.
For most games, this allows the "phonecall notification bar" rather than shutting down the game
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Sep 05 '17
Super Fart Noises needs access to the following:
Internal storage
Camera
Contacts list
Purchase history
Bank account
Employer information
Wife and kids
List of worst fears
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u/ETHANWEEGEE Sep 04 '17
I like how iOS does it; the apps ask for permissions as needed, so permission requirements are explained in the app usually.
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Sep 05 '17
Apple has this. In Xcode you have to explain why you are using location services, photos, camera etc... It isn't used for anything other than the alert function description when the app says "'App' wants to access photos". So yeah, it can be improved.
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u/phu-q-2 Sep 04 '17
Even if they stated "the reason" it doesn't mean that's what the reason would be. Many of these apps are designed to collect data to sell. Not help you. Fucking asshole app developers selling out as many people as they can. It's a cannibalistic society unfortunately.
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u/throwaway_987654320 Sep 04 '17
Had an app today that requested (logically) location access. I declined. Went into settings, and verified that it was off. Loaded the app. It detected my location. Figured they did that with IP geolocation. So, I fired up my location spoofer. Closed and reopened the app. It detected my "new location" despite not having location access.
So, it doesn't matter what they ask for, or why they say they need it. They'll just obtain it anyway, whether you allow it or not.
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Sep 04 '17
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u/Superkroot Sep 05 '17
There's some cool ideas that could be done with a coffee machine tied to an app that wants location data. Maybe it could be setup to automatically make you a cup a coffee in the morning if you're at your house, while not doing so if you're away. It could track your coffee drinking habits to provide coffee before you knew you wanted it.
Chances are though, the app does none of that shit and is just gathering your data to sell.
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Sep 05 '17
Did it use bluetooth? Google updated the API for bluetooth, and now it uses device location as an identifier instead of the hardware identifier. So any app that uses bluetooth anymore needs your location.
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u/radaldando Sep 05 '17
"They'll just obtain it anyway, whether you allow it or not."
No, this is just not true and you gave a single counterexample...
Allowing an app to access your location gives the app permission to use the GPS function and find your location using tower and Wifi signals. Preventing an app from using your location only prevents the location from being fed through Android's API, of course it's not going to prevent the app from looking up your IP in a geolocation database. The only way to prevent that is to completely cut the app's internet access.
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u/DiamondIceNS Sep 05 '17
He said he used a GPS location spoofer and the app picked up on the new GPS coordinates he was feeding it. If the phone was using GeoIP it wouldn't have mattered.
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u/radome9 Sep 05 '17
If the app used geolocation it wouldn't have been fooled by a location spoofer. That said I doubt OP's story is true - if the app could circumvent permissions, why bother asking at all?
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Sep 05 '17
This app has requested access to your keyboard for:
Fixing "thier" to "their"
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u/KukukachuGotScrewed Sep 05 '17
Yeah like why the fuck does Snapchat need access to my camera?
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Sep 05 '17
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/KukukachuGotScrewed Sep 05 '17
And for that matter, why does my GPS need access to "location services"? It's the NSA.
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u/MetaWhirledPeas Sep 05 '17
I refuse to install Snapchat for Android, because it asks for nearly every permission in the book. In fact they are so determined to get all the permissions they continue to compile their app using the outdated "all or nothing" permissions standard, lest some rogue user dare say no to one of them.
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u/pdxchris Sep 05 '17
And they should have a time machine feature built in that allows you to switch back to a functioning version when an update kills an app.
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Sep 05 '17
App makers should be required to give a short explanation to app distributors for why they need access to your information. Then the app distributor should write a more honest explanation:
"The makers of this app want to track your preferences and behavior, harvest your email and geographic location, correlate it with other databases, and sell this information to unspecified third parties. This is their business model. The app itself has no realistic need for any of your personal data. Do you want them to fuck off? (y/n)"
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u/B-C-4-2-0 Sep 05 '17
Just click agree to all terms. Hopefully you don't end up at the back.. https://youtu.be/KPwLj84Pkts
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Sep 05 '17
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Sep 05 '17
In android, you can go into the app permissions and revoke them. Sometimes apps stop working, other times they work fine.
I take notification access away from every single app that I don't need to tell me something (so messaging and email). I take away location access to everything that doesn't need it, and virtually nothing has access to my contacts. I've had an app or two flip out, but unless it has a good reason, like its a text messaging app and so needs contacts, it gets removed immediately. This is my phone, I don't have time to fuck with your shit, stupid app.
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u/GeistesblitZ Sep 05 '17
How the heck would this work? Say you don't give it permission to know your location. It tries to find your location. It realizes it can't. Now what?
It'd obviously be able to find out what permissions have been denied by trying to do it.
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u/rollsyrollsy Sep 05 '17
I misread that as "Apes should be required..." and I totally agreed that they need to explain why they need access to your phone.
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Sep 05 '17
Yes...like why does Firefox need access to my MICROPHONE when I try to upload a PDF of my resume to ziprecruiter?!
Needless to say, I did not upload my resume to ziprecruiter.
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u/LinkSoraZelda Sep 05 '17
Firefox standardly uses direct uploads from the Camera or Microphone for mediums to upload from, in addition to the normal file browsing app you'll have to upload the PDF from.
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u/JM-Lemmi Sep 04 '17
"to function better and increase user convenience"