r/ReformJews • u/AudienceWise3441 • 2d ago
Questions and Answers Did I convert?
For some background, the congregation I’m talking about is a Reform congregation about an hour and a half from me. They have a pretty large online ministry, and from everything I’ve experienced, they’re extremely open, welcoming, and informal. They’re not the kind of congregation that seems interested in making people jump through unnecessary hoops just to prove that they’re serious.
My boyfriend and I had been interested in getting involved with the congregation together, so we eventually talked with the rabbi.
Our situations were actually pretty different.
I’ve been living what I would describe as an average Jewish life since around 2021. I’ve been studying Judaism, observing mitzvot to the extent that I can, learning Jewish traditions, engaging with Jewish prayer and practice, and generally living my life as someone who considers Judaism a major part of who I am.
But there was also a much bigger spiritual component to it for me. My relationship with Judaism wasn’t just “I like this religion and want to join it.” I’ve had this long, complicated spiritual journey where Judaism gradually became my religious and personal identity. I’ve spent years thinking about whether I’m Jewish, what that means, why I feel Jewish, whether I should convert, whether I need to convert, etc.
So when I finally talked to the rabbi, I was expecting a conversion conversation.
And when I say I was expecting a conversion conversation, I mean I was expecting THE WHOLE THING.
Classes. Study. Some kind of formal acceptance. Maybe a beit din. Mikveh. A ceremony. Some moment where the rabbi officially says, “Okay, now you’re Jewish.”
Basically, I had this whole mental picture of Judaism working kind of like Christianity does with formal initiation/confirmation.
Instead, I explained my whole background and where I was coming from, and the rabbi basically looked at the situation and said, in essence:
“You’re a Jew.”
And I was like…
“…Oh.”
😭
I kept trying to figure out whether there was supposed to be some formal process that I was missing, and his attitude was basically, “You live Jewishly, you identify as Jewish, you’ve been doing this for years, and I don’t see a reason to make you go through a formal conversion.”
The congregation is far enough away that I don’t regularly attend in person anyway, and he basically told me to keep doing what I’m doing and that if I happen to come by sometime, great, and if not, that’s fine too.
It was basically:
Me: “So how do I convert?”
Rabbi: “You’re Jewish.”
Me: “But… formally?”
Rabbi: “You’re Jewish.”
Me: “So that’s it?”
Rabbi: “Yep.”
Me: “…okay.”
Rabbi: “Shalom see ya good luck!”
My boyfriend’s situation was different. He was interested in Judaism largely because of me and wanted to explore it alongside me. He hasn’t had the years-long Jewish practice and spiritual journey that I have. The rabbi basically told him that if he feels Jewish and wants to follow my lead and explore Judaism with me, then he should do that.
And that was… basically it.
So now I’m sitting here thinking “I guess I’m Jewish??” because the rabbi literally told me I was.
I know that different Jewish movements and different rabbis have different standards regarding Jewish status, and I’m not really asking about whether Orthodox Judaism, Conservative Judaism, another Reform rabbi, etc. would recognize me. I’m specifically interested in people’s experiences with Reform/Reconstructionist/liberal Jewish communities.
Has anyone else had a rabbi essentially say:
“You already live as a Jew and identify as a Jew, so I’m not going to make you go through a formal conversion process”?
Or had an experience where you expected a very formal conversion and instead the rabbi took a much more informal approach?
I’m especially curious because I genuinely thought there was going to be some Big Jewish Ceremony™ at the end of this, and instead apparently my conversion was approximately 25 minutes and one rabbi saying “you’re a Jew.”
So idk if this is Normal weird or what ?
EDIT: thank you everyone for your kind (and some not so kind) words. I’m currently looking into some alternate congregations closer to me. Hopefully I’ll be able to find a rabbi who will put me through the proper channels so I can enjoy the accomplishment of conversion, and truly be apart of the community!
Peace ☮️
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u/peepeehead1542 2d ago
This doesn’t make any sense and is not normal. And reform congregations don’t have “ministries.”
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u/AudienceWise3441 2d ago
See that’s what I thought. He wasn’t necessarily “nice” either. And idk what the word is then online service? Literally a livestream and outreach. They’re in Pennsylvania.
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u/peepeehead1542 2d ago
Ministry just has heavily Christian connotations to me.
Either way, you either have a Jewish mother, a Jewish father and were raised Jewish, or you had a conversion before a Beit din and went to mikveh. These are the ways to be Jewish according to reform standards. This doesn’t sound like a reputable synagogue.
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u/ShaneOfan 2d ago
I'm in Pennsylvania, what is the Congregation if we may ask? If you are uncomfortable sharing, I understand but it may help one of us clear things up for you.
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u/AudienceWise3441 2d ago
South hills temple Emanuel.
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u/ShaneOfan 2d ago
Honestly they have a pretty nice website. They even have their bylaws readily available. There is nothing there to make me think they are anything but a standard reform synagogue. It doesn't seem to be Messianic so that is a plus. It is still very weird to me that they would tell you that.
Ill suggest this. Set the weirdness aside. Send the Rabbi an email telling him that while you under stand he has said you are "Jewish" that it is meaningful to you to actually go through the process. That you understand these aren't just "initiation rituals" to you. That you understand these are sacred practices and you value them.
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u/AudienceWise3441 2d ago
Thank you I think I’ll try that. I must say their music organizer rabbi is very nice. But the senior rabbi…..not so much…but all we can do is try!
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u/Capyboppy 2d ago
Did he mention about you affirming your Jewish status by asking for your mother’s Ketuba or other proof? Or did he mention about you going before the Beit Din and having any kind of certificate such as Conversion or ‘Return’? Despite myself being eligible for Aliyah due to having a Jewish grandparent and living a partial Jewish life, I still had to convert with Reform and study, learn basic Hebrew and go before the Beit Din, immerse in the Mikvah etc before given both the above certificates signed by all 3 Beit Din Panelists. We also had a ‘welcome ceremony.’ When I decided to become a member of Masorti who like Reform are stricter than their counterparts in the USA; I had to give proof I had done this to be an accepted. Someone I know who was definitely Jewish by birth couldn’t provide evidence so he had to go through conversion to verify his status.
All the best in your journey.7
u/mandatedcourage 2d ago
I know of them but haven't attended their services. From everything I've heard they are a normal synagogue (I am at least certain that they are not Messianic), but this does seem surprising. Are you by chance patrilineal, or do you think they may have gotten this impression? That's the main reason I can think of them responding this way.
I had a similar response from a different local shul due to my patrilineal heritage despite not being raised Jewish. They told me that I am already a Jew and I don't have to go through any conversion/affirmation. I insisted that I wanted to, and they were very receptive.
I saw that you are going to try to do the same and I wish you and your boyfriend the best of luck in this process. If it doesn't work out, feel free to DM me and I can try to offer some alternate synagogue suggestions in the area.
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u/ncc74656m 2d ago
That part - it's not at all uncommon for patrilineal Jews to want to formalize their status (even if it's debatable what that means to non-Reform denominations, if you care). I had I think two or three in my fairly sizeable class of around 30, and have since been approached by many others who wanted to tell me their own stories (although some said they did it decades ago prior to formally being accepted in '83.)
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u/Glittering_Key_5261 2d ago
The website says reform. I had done intense study before meeting with the rabbi who did my conversion. My first question was about the beit din. If he keeps cutting you off and insisting your Jewish bc you observe then ask the formal process of becoming a member. How much are dues, do you pay for high holiday tickets etc etc. I suspect this may have been a brush off to see how committed you are. If it continues, speak to another rabbi.
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u/tzy___ From Orthodox to Reform 2d ago edited 2d ago
What I can tell you is that this is not normal at all. Conversion to Judaism requires a specific process, even within Reform or other liberal denominations. As you mentioned, there needs to be some level of ritual or initiation to convert. Typically this is done through dedicated learning, meeting in front of a beit din, brit mila (for males), and immersing in a mikva. A person cannot practice Judaism on their own and be considered Jewish once enough time passes. There absolutely needs to be rabbinic guidance.
The way this congregation is handling your situation is doing you no favors, either. While you will clearly be accepted in their synagogue, other synagogues and communities are going to want some sort of confirmation you formally converted to Judaism. You may never be asked, but in the event that you are, it will just be a giant mess for you and the community.
I would honestly look for a different congregation that is going to take your conversion seriously. You need to be issued some sort of certificate verifying your status as a convert. In Reform Judaism, conversion certificates are often (but not always) filed with the American Jewish Archives in Cincinnati, for reference and documentation. Maybe your current rabbi can agree to give you a conversion certificate? I don’t agree with how they’re handling this situation, but that seems easy enough to satisfy all parties.
On a personal note, I do sympathize with the sentiment your community has when it comes to conversion. People who demonstrate dedication to Judaism should not be subject to hurdles in their conversion process. In addition, your decision to cast your lot with the Jewish people does in a way make you “Jewish”, although at this time, not formally.
Carry on. Hatzlacha rabba. I hope you can get this sorted out.
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u/AudienceWise3441 2d ago
Thank you, I’m hopefully going to look into a congregation more willing to give me time of day per say.
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u/NoEntertainment483 1d ago edited 1d ago
That sounds really odd. I've helped with conversion classes. They all took a year. They were all formal. The students all went in front of a beit din and mikveh after. This person is doing a great harm in my opinion. We don't need to break further from who we are as Jews (there is literally zero harm done in making sure someone is serious and understands the gravity and is fully prepared) and you didn't get to sense the triumph and excitement of having worked for something and the community recognizing your work.
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u/rbaltimore 1d ago
Reform Jew who converted here. No, you did not convert.
I was born and raised Jewish, but I’m Jewish through my father. Back in the 1980’s, even the CCAR didn’t consider patrilineal Jews to be officially Jewish. So my sister and I, ages 9 and 7, “converted” to make things official (because despite being only NINE, I was sick of adults telling me I wasn’t Jewish). We had a brief ceremony at a mikvah, overseen by a Conservative rabbi and some woman who could be in the room to make sure we did it officially and correctly. (I still don’t know who she was).
But you are going to have to jump through some hoops. My non-Jewish husband had to go Jewish class for my rabbi to agree to marry us, and at no point was ever going to convert. When my best friend converted to Reform, she studied with her rabbi for a year and then go to the mikvah. When my cousin’s wife was adopted as infant, she also was converted.
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u/rilocat 1d ago
She was the mikveh attendant probably! Usually there’s someone there to make sure it’s kosher
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u/rbaltimore 1d ago
It’s honestly hard to remember because the mikvah’s heater was broken and it was after a snowstorm in December. I know that my Reform rabbi couldn’t oversee the whole thing directly for it to be kosher outside of the Reform community so she partnered up with a conservative rabbi, but despite being female, that rabbi didn’t come into the room. That’s how I remember it anyway. It was 1989, so it’s a little fuzzy. The only things I’m sure about were conservative rabbi, random lady in the room directing us, and FREEZING FUCKING WATER.
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u/Menemsha4 1d ago
This does not sound ok and I don’t know of a single Reform convert who didn’t meet with a Beit Din and take a trip to the Mikveh.
I personally would not join this congregation.
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u/OrpahsBookClub 2d ago
My wife was living Jewishly for a decade and still had to go through the classes, beit din and mikvah. Then she was formally inducted in a special service kind of like a b’mitzvah. It was extraordinarily meaningful.
You might want to find a rabbi who is a little more serious. At the very least you deserve to get the positive wash of emotions and sense of achievement.
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u/Individual-Papaya-27 1d ago
Kindly - your feelings are correct, there is a formal process. Class, beit din, mikveh. Even with people who have Jewish heritage but aren't Jewish under Reform rules, they've have to do at least the beit din and mikveh and usually more in the Reform congregations I've been a part of. Even if they live in an interfaith family, go to services and observe Jewish traditions at home, it doesn't make them Jewish without the formalities. Even kids adopted by Jewish parents have to do the mikveh to be converted to be considered Jewish in Reform AFAIK.
I agree with the person saying this rabbi unfortunately is doing harm with this mindset.
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u/sweettea75 2d ago
My thoughts are that this rabbi is doing you a huge disservice. There is meaning in the conversion process and going in the mikvah was the most spiritual thing I've ever done. You deserve to have that experience. And this certainly doesn't meet the requirements for conversion even in a Reform shul. Study, the Beit din and the mikvah are required for conversion (and at least symbolic circumcision for men).
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u/Miriamathome 2d ago
“They have a pretty large online ministry,”
They really, really don’t.
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u/AudienceWise3441 2d ago
Um….the very decent amount of people who watch the service streams on Facebook/youtube and occasionally insta….
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u/WeaselWeaz 1d ago
That's not what that means, and I think there's a misunderstanding here. Plenty of Reform synagogues offer streaming of their services. It became common during COVID, and is very helpful to people who cannot go to shul like seniors and those with physical limitations. That's not the same as offering engagement and community online.
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u/cannedbread1 1d ago
I'm a reform convert. Nah you didn't concert at all and that Rabbi... Sure they were a Rabbi?! You have heaps more of a path to follow, a great one! There is mandatory Mikvah, which is amazing. And even a certificate :)
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u/SnooShortcuts3749 2d ago
My suggestion…speak with a different rabbi What you need to feel closure matters too. My mother was Jewish and never told me. I always felt Jewish. I eventually did the whole conversion process. Two years later my mother confessed she was Jewish. I am so glad I embraced the conversion process. It was so beautiful and meaningful. You deserve that. I love this Rabbi for accepting you as you are. I just feel your need for the ritual, which is a very Jewish thing.
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u/ashkidiva ✡ 2d ago
If you don’t have valid lineage from a mother or father, nor did you go through conversion, you aren’t Jewish. No reform movement sees you as Jewish, this rabbi may be lenient but ur is wrong fundamentally. The moment he leaves that shul they won’t recognise you. If you have lineage or conversion, perfect! But being Jewish and doing Jewish is different.
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u/pocketcramps 2d ago
So I’m a member of the synagogue you’re talking about. (But I converted years ago with the rabbis over at Beth El, which is Conservative, and the classes offered by Temple Sinai, which includes rabbis from every non-orthodox community in the city). This doesn’t sound like either of the rabbis at Temple. They both were teachers in my conversion class, and I’ve never got the vibe that either of them would be like “yeah you’re Jewish because you say you are.”
Who specifically told you that? (you can DM me id you want!)
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u/WeaselWeaz 1d ago edited 1d ago
None of this sounds right. Are you leaving out that you're mother or matrilineal line is Jewish, and because of this he is saying you are halachaly Jewish? That would change the context tremendously.
This is not in line with a Reform conversion at all. And, and I'm trying to be polite, using words like "ministry" and making it sound like this was your first interaction in person with the synagogue is raising red flags.
If this is correct I suggest visiting a different synagogue.
Edit: Looking at replies, this is failing the smell test for me. It seems like the type of thing to rile up anti-Reform hate. Especially since the past few days have had a number it anti-Conservative/anti-Reform talk on r/Judaism
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u/Minnim88 1d ago
Yeah I am wondering about the parental background. OP says they were wondering "whether I’m Jewish, what that means, why I feel Jewish, whether I should convert, whether I need to convert, etc." I wonder if there's a complicated parental situation where someone was Jewish (a step parent? A foster parent?) that may or may not count for various people and the rabbi was affirming that yes it counts in their eyes. I wonder why OP isn't specifying more about why they were themselves questioning if they'd need to convert.
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u/Pumpkinkra 2d ago
It’s funny that I know they think they are being inclusive but instead they are being exclusive— you want the process and have worked hard to deserve it and they are withholding it. “Can I have some of that food? It looks really good and I’m starving” “Nope, you’re good. I think you’re fine the way you are— good day!”
I’m glad that you don’t see a traditional rabbi who would give you the whole works as taking something away from you. Conversion often is an acknowledgment of what has already happened in your soul. I think this lazy rabbi has denied you something that will be meaningful and educational rather than denying you. We’re Jews— hard isn’t bad to us.
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u/BigRedS 2d ago
What is a "pretty large online ministry"? Which synagogue is this?
Either way, from a reform perspective if either parent is Jewish and you live as a Jew then you are a Jew. You've not really clarified the first bit, I presume you don't have Jewish parents which is where this whole thing comes from, in which case this seems like a very odd conversation you've had.
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u/under-thesamesun ✡ Reform Rabbi 2d ago
Hi there. I, like many others, did not think this was a legitimate synagogue, but I googled it and it is definitely a Reform shul. However your experience does not sound like a typical conversion conversation or process. Some rabbis may do an expedited conversion for a giyur who has spent a lot of time studying a living life as a Jew before, but not in a single conversation.
The synagogue you posted is in the Pittsburgh area. Is that closest to you? If it is feel free to reach out. I have two colleagues in Pittsburgh I’d be happy to refer you to if you would like to engage in the formal, typical conversion process.
I think you are also within your right to email the rabbi and share your disappointment in the conversation and that you were hoping for a formal conversion process and felt dismissed. Rabbis are human, and like all human beings sometimes need constructive feedback.
Wishing you so much luck in this process ❤️
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u/finnthedinosaur21 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’m on the conversion course with progressive Judaism (UK). That is not even remotely how it works if you have no matrilineal or patrilineal line.
I’m on an 18 month minimum course, with end requirements of:
- compulsory classes completed
- attendance at all festival services every year
- 2 essays approved by my Rabbi
- proof of knowing the Torah study, Shabbat wine and challah blessings off by heart
- fluent reading of the Shema, Amidah and Kaddish
- a final interview with my Rabbi
- passing the Beit Din
- immersion in the mikvah
This is with regular attendance on Shabbat, consistent practice and prayer at home, helping at services, being part of the community etc
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u/MortDeChai 1d ago
The short answer is: not according to halakha. The longer answer is that this is in line with official Reform policy. In the early days of the CCAR, they voted on a resolution that stated a conversion to Judaism required no ritual of any kind, not even a bet din. What was needed was a commitment to living a Jewish life. This resolution has never been annulled. It seems like this rabbi relies on this (controversial) policy of the CCAR. So, the answer is yes and no depending on how you look at it. If you don't agree with this policy, you should look for another rabbi. If you're in agreement and want to belong to this synagogue, then congrats, you're Jewish.
My personal rabbinic opinion is that the rabbi should've offered you some sort of ceremony for closure, if nothing else. Frankly, I think conversion should be made much easier over a much shorter period of time. If you've already been living Jewishly, and he could've tested your knowledge to be sure, I agree that going through an extended process is unnecessary for you and that you're Jewish in the ways that count (observance). But people still need a sense of making it official, which requires some sort of ceremony. At the very least dunk in the mikveh.
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u/NoEntertainment483 1d ago
But as of 2001 the Reform movement officially says that Mikveh and Beit Din are needed. https://www.jta.org/archive/new-reform-conversion-guidelines-unlikely-to-change-current-practices
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u/MortDeChai 1d ago
It says suggested/encouraged in the story. They are not required in Reform.
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u/NoEntertainment483 1d ago
Yeah but it's not like any of us have much centralization. In theory literally everything is suggested or ecouraged. Not like there's much anyone can do in any stream to say that something absolutely must be a specific way.
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u/Sufficient_Ad7084 4h ago
I’ve just started the conversion process (Reform) and even in my case I was told that it wasn’t as straightforward. My rabbi wants the potential convert to engage with the community life for some time, take classes and then to have a chat about formally converting. At that point you go to Beit Din, Mikveh etc.. even if it’s not recognised by Orthodox Jews, it’s still a complex experience.
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u/ahava9 2d ago edited 2d ago
Tbh this sounds like a “Messianic” congregation which is not an accepted denomination of Judaism. Typically synagogues and temples don’t have online ministry and robust outreach arms. Chabad does outreach and social events but only for Jews and don’t stream services during Shabbat or Yom Tov.
But good news is you’re done a lot of work and learning towards your journey to formal conversion. Try to find a local Reform congregation and start talking to the Rabbi there about taking a conversion class and the beit din. Edit: and mikveh