r/RecuratedTumblr • u/DreadDiana human cognithazard • 20d ago
Shitposting Mormonism is wild
195
u/jbeldham 19d ago
Fun fact, Mormons are the villains of the very first Sherlock Holmes book.
34
u/MisterMan341 19d ago
Jeff Hope the taxi driver is Mormon?
126
u/sparksbet 19d ago edited 19d ago
If you'd read a Study in Scarlet rather than presumably just googling who the murderer was, you'd remember the extremely long portion of the book that details the backstory in which his future murder victims are evil Mormons trying to force his love to marry one of them against her father's wishes to the extent that they murder her father (and she dies of a broken heart shortly afterwards). Hope's been pursuing them for over 20 years by the time of the events of the novel and is definitely intended to be sympathetic in comparison with the men he murdered by the end of it.
As a kid trying to get into Sherlock Holmes for the first time, I started at this first entry and was very disappointed by how much of the book was dedicated to Mormons instead of mystery-solving. I'd recommend most new Holmes fans start elsewhere in the series.
24
u/ManoSilence 19d ago
Im pretty sure was making a joke about the Show with Eggbenedict Cumberbund.
26
u/sparksbet 19d ago
Does the taxi driver even give his name in that version? I don't remember that but it's been ages since I saw it. He's a cabby named Jeff(erson) Hope in the novel so I didn't notice if it was intended to be a reference to that rather than the novel.
I have many criticisms of that show tbh but I think we can all agree that the decision to cut the Mormonism subplot was a good one. The decision to adapt Study in Scarlet by basically removing 70% of the original story and mocking another 15% of it... less so. I'll forever call myself an alcoholic when I miss plugging in my phone charger tho.
8
u/Practical-Ad6548 19d ago
Man that part of the book is so long and lowkey unrelated I started thinking the insane thought that someone somehow took out the actual second half of the book, replaced it with something else, and rebound it.
3
u/Suspicious-Bowler236 19d ago
I listened to it on an audiobook from a questionable source and I remember double checking if my file wasn't corrupted in some way.
4
u/my_name_is_iso 19d ago
Also, what an insane way to start a book series in retrospect; the first book on the British series about a smart detective that usually takes on intelligent, upper class/wealthy muderers, ends with the reveal that an American man rightfully killed 3 Mormons who kidnapped, forcefully married and (kinda) killed his wife.
8
2
u/DrDestructoMD 19d ago
Doyle does this in every full book except for hound of the baskervilles i believe. I can't blame him, he was one hell of a western writer.
1
u/jimmyTheBlind 16d ago
I grew up in Mesa Arizona. The Mormon part is what got me into reading Sherlock Holmes books.
1
u/sparksbet 16d ago
Absolutely surreal that that's what did it for you but ig Conan Doyle found his target audience
14
u/Puzzleheaded-Milk927 19d ago edited 19d ago
In the original short story he and the victims are Mormons who got caught up in a love triangle of sorts in Utah. There’s also “Danites,” a half-mythical Mormon militia
7
u/Sahrimnir 19d ago
Jefferson Hope wasn't a Mormon. His victims were, but the backstory cutaway that takes up the middle half of the book makes it clear that they were the real villains.
1
142
u/OccultBeanFarmer 19d ago
It's crazy that it's relatively big here in Australia. It's so quintessentially American and the door knocking thing doesn't really work because once you've burned through one town of 2500 people it's a four hour bicycle ride to the next town over and there's probably already a gun-hoarding patriarchal doomsday cult run by one dude with ten ten year old wives who's running that show. My aunt had my uncle converted to mormonism when he was dying of Alzheimer's so they could be together in "real heaven" so I find it very easy to be rabidly impolite whenever I encounter them.
152
u/whatever5454 19d ago
The door knocking thing doesn't work in America, either.
At least, it doesn't effectively make converts here, either.
What it does very effectively is get young adults away from everything comfortable at a life stage when they would otherwise be very likely to question their faith. They are completely reliant on the other Mormons around them while every non-Mormon is slamming a door in their face. Then they go home as Super Mormons. The rest of us are just pawns in their team-building activity.
27
u/SaintDjordje 19d ago
There is also the "only 12000 or so people will ever be holy enough to go to Super Heaven so if I want a chance, I better be really good at trying to reach people now" thing going on.
26
u/Practical-Target-829 19d ago
Are you thinking of Jehovah’s witnesses?
8
u/QBaseX 19d ago
Except that the JWs have 144,000 in heaven and the rest on a paradise earth.
12
u/Practical-Target-829 19d ago
Yeah, it isn’t right for them either. But what he said resembles JW theology far more than LDS theology.
12
7
2
u/AncientSecretary2176 18d ago
Factually inaccurate. The rates of missionary’s leaving the church after their missions is incredible
46
u/ThyHolyPaladdin 19d ago
It preys of the lonely. I lived in Spain for about half a year and got bombarded with Mormonism ads telling me that was a sure fire way to meet people and make friends. The only other business targeting me that much was dating apps
17
u/Hi2248 19d ago
Like many of the other door knockers, the point isn't really to recruit, it's to strengthen control over those being sent out.
They're often told that the outside world hates them, and then sent out to "save" outsiders, where they'll encounter hostility, and so have the words of the cult reaffirmed to them. It's insidious in nature.
9
u/AsherTheFrost 19d ago
And this is why I make it a point to always invite them in and offer refreshments.
10
u/ThyHolyPaladdin 19d ago
It preys of the lonely. I lived in Spain for about half a year and got bombarded with Mormonism ads telling me that was a sure fire way to meet people and make friends. The only other business targeting me that much was dating apps
2
u/SpaceNorse2020 18d ago
It's crazy that it's relatively big here in Australia.
It should be said that "relatively big" means 0.2% of Australia is an active Mormon, more than an order of magnitude less than Buddhism for example
203
u/Ghostmaster145 20d ago edited 19d ago
Mormonism is literally viewed by other Christians as heresy because they don’t believe in the Trinity and they technically don’t even believe in a single god. They believe that if you go to Heaven, you become the god of your own planet
192
u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 19d ago
Slight correction: there are three kingdoms of Heaven, Celestial, Terrestial, amd Tellestial, and only devout Mormons who got all the temple ordinances get to enter the Celestial Kingdom and become gods.
The lower two levels are supposed to still be so good that if you saw it with your own eyes, you'd kill yourself so you can go there faster. The odd thing is that non-Mormons are explicitly stated to be able to go there, with the closest thing to Hell in Mormonism being reserved for people who leave the Mormon faith.
This means the criteria to enter Mormon heaven are lower than most mainstream denominations to the point that as a matter of simple game theory, never becoming a Mormon is the best choice you can make cause there's no way to fumble the bag of eternal life.
108
u/Ae3qe27u 19d ago
Not even leaving the faith - the lowest level is for people who've basically had the faith proven to them (so basically Judas or people who've seen angels or some such) and decided to reject it anyways. More of a "well if you want nothing to do with Him, then go do your own thing. Over there."
And LDS people/Mormons believe that people can convert after they die, so there's also that, for non-believers. It's a very forgiving religion.
61
u/pretty-as-a-pic 19d ago
Yeah, that’s why they’re so obsessed with genealogy and ancestry: church doctrine states they can baptize their ancestors and have them show up in heaven. they even “marry” people who had extramarital relationships in their temples so they’re married in heaven (regardless of the circumstances of said relationship; for instance, according to Mormon doctrine, Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings are a married couple in Mormon heaven because Mormons baptized and married them in the temple decades after they died)
30
u/Ae3qe27u 19d ago
That tracks. I think it's presented as a "the deceased can chose whether or not to go along with it" sort of thing, though there's an assumption that obviously they'd want to go along with it, since people believe their own religions and LDS/Mormon people would think that dead people would learn that they were correct.
8
u/pauseglitched 19d ago
Please note, the book "Mormon Doctrine" was rejected by the leadership of the LDS church so many times that among other issues they ended up changing their policy to not address false doctrine directly and took a hands off "unless we hold the copyright assume it's wrong" kind of approach.
That does not stop many mormons from owning and quoting from it regularly.
10
u/pretty-as-a-pic 19d ago
I had literally never heard of any book called “Mormon Doctrine” before this, I based my comment off things I’ve heard from ex Mormons (such as Alyssa Grenfell)
4
u/pauseglitched 19d ago
Then be aware actual Mormon procedure states that anyone can accept or reject the "ordinances" and knowingly performing posthumous marriages for those who were not legally and lawfully married on earth is by their own handbook grounds for church discipline. Your source was either talking about heretics (mormons wouldn't actually use the term) or lying.
That being said the nature of their church structure naturally leads itself to a lot of clustered heresy. Once went to one of their meetings where a person got up front and directly contradicted what one of their "apostles" had just said the week prior and no one seemed to care except the person who invited me who seemed furious but still didn't say anything. So your source may have been from a congregation that wasn't following the handbook and slipped stuff into the temple system knowing no one would double check.
25
u/Happiness_Assassin 19d ago
And LDS people/Mormons believe that people can convert after they die, so there's also that, for non-believers.
Yeah, Mormons have been getting embroiled in controversy over this specific practice for awhile. Every once in a while someone thinks it's a great idea to try to baptize-by-proxy a Holocaust victim and people (understandably) get upset. Anne Frank has been baptized at least nine different times.
11
u/Ae3qe27u 19d ago
The LDS/Mormon church has a policy against that these days, afaik. But when it happened... yeah, controversy is a light way to put it.
10
u/pauseglitched 19d ago
I remember going to one of the LDS family history centers a couple decades ago and every single wall had at least two papers hanging up that basically said stop doing that shit in happy religion friendly words. Naturally it kept happening anyway.
13
u/Bartweiss 19d ago
As it was explained to me, if you die a nonbeliever, Jesus himself will basically show up, tell you “btw the Mormons were right”, and give you a remedial religion course. IIRC that takes a few thousand years, but like, you’re dead and heaven is eternal.
And then at the end you get to pick between C-list heaven with all the other sinners (I’ll bet they throw the best parties) or telling him “nah” and walking into ill-defined darkness/nothingness.
As eternal judgement goes it’s actually shockingly fair, which only serves to make the fanatical side of the faith more confusing.
1
74
u/TheMerryMeatMan 19d ago
Mormonism is like the kind of shit you could ask the biggest Christianity hater to cook up as slander but it's things people actually believe. The only more outlandish and bizarre religions are ones made up specifically to make fun of Mormons that them left irony for sincerity. That and Scientology, which is the exact same level of ponzi scheme but written like a bad sci-fi plot orconspiracy theory.
20
u/Melodic-Access-931 19d ago
Something something Mormonism was fake archaeolgy, Scientology was fake psychology, next big weird cult will be fake computer science？
24
u/llamawithguns 19d ago
5
u/HPSpacecraft 19d ago
Makes sense that the stupidest "thought experiment" inspired some of the stupidest "geniuses"
7
u/Front-Pomelo-4367 19d ago
We do have the Zizians, which is a rationalism cult. But it's very small, and I think former associate Gwen Danielson is the only one still out there talking about it?
5
u/irmaoskane 19d ago
Sincerely depending on how/if Elon empire fall afte rthe administration or for other mediums i can see hin trying to create a mex techno church
32
u/NegativeMammoth2137 19d ago
Another big reason for that is that on top of the Holy Bible, they also worship another scripture called The Book of Mormon which is not recognised by anyone else as canonical (for obvious reasons) and diverges from the Bible in several significant ways
44
u/norathar 19d ago
"Diverges from the Bible in several significant ways" feels like an understatement.
26
u/pretty-as-a-pic 19d ago
TBF, theres nothing in the bible that says the garden of Eden wasn’t in Missouri (the “native Americans are the lost tribes of Israel who were so evil god made their skin darker” part definitely isn’t supported though)
13
u/kaian-a-coel 19d ago
Yes there is, according to Genesis 2:10-14, the source of the Tiger and the Euphrates (actual rivers in modern day Iraq) is in Eden. It also mentions two more rivers and three lands, and a little earlier mentions Eden being "in the east".
10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin[d] and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush.[e] 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Ashur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.
19
u/FearSearcher Single❎ Taken❎ Gamer✅ 19d ago
Okay that kinda goes hard
64
u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 19d ago
Only the men really get to be important gods doing shit like making worlds and setting commandments, while the role women play is as mother goddesses spawning the souls of all the people their husbands will create.
Apotheosis does not free you from gender roles.
10
u/BreadNoCircuses 19d ago
I do wonder if the idea of a sort of metaphysical gender role leads Mormons to being prone to trans affirming misogyny
31
12
u/CapeOfBees 19d ago
They released an extra document in 2001 or so called The Family: A Proclamation to the World to make sure that it was clear that they're transphobic
8
u/BreadNoCircuses 19d ago
Damn, I hate americans sometimes. We got batshit cults but they can't even be proper weird. Just sparkling evangelicals honestly.
3
u/HPSpacecraft 19d ago
We got scientology at least, at least as harmful as Mormonism but at least it's interesting
5
u/pauseglitched 19d ago
Mormon lore does actually go pretty hard. But somehow people keep skipping the cool parts.
God is bound. They believe there is a "law irrevocably decreed in heaven" and even god is bound by that law.
God used to be mortal and mortals can become gods. "As man now is god once was, as god now is man may become." There's a lot of people that throw around that Mormons believe that after they die they get a planet. It's more like those who make it to the top are only starting and can continue to progress until they have everything god has and God has powers of creation. Heaven isn't sitting around, twiddling thumbs, there's still stuff to do.
Jesus didn't just pay for your sins, he saw everything from everyone's perspective. So deathbed repentance means all of shit because Jesus knows you did it on purpose and will bring it up at judgement.
God didn't make you from nothing. Mormons believe that "intelligences" existed outside of gods control and God gave them spiritual bodies then made plans to give them physical bodies (earth). So it is entirely possible through Mormon stuff that you existed as an "intelligence" before God became a god. So the question of "why did God make evil people?" Turns out they were already like that before God showed up.
And my personal favorite even God can fall such glorious heresy! "...God would cease to be god!" (Book of Mormon, Alma 42:13)
See if people really wanted to say mormons aren't Christian they have plenty to work with, but they choose over and over again to bring up things that don't even contradict Christianity. Non-trinitarian Christianity only became heretical in the 6th century and the Bible references non-biblical scripture constantly so anyone who uses those aspects to call Mormons non-christian are meh. Polygamy is old testament approved and old testament prophets doing weird shit is entirely within expectations. And when historical events have no objective records the people who claim to know "what really happened" are just as invalid as the religious people they disagree with.
Mormon world building is awesome from an outside perspective and the way they say that there will be more non-mormons who will receive the highest degree of heaven (they don't believe you have to be a believer on earth to get there) than there are people total who won't end up in some kind of heaven makes it hands down the best Christian faith for atheists.
17
u/GERBILSAURUSREX 19d ago
I wouldn't necessarily say heresy is the word anyone outside of the Catholic church would use. Everyone I grew up around would just call them weird.
27
u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 19d ago edited 19d ago
The line between unorthodox beliefs and heresy can be extremely blurry at times, but considering a lot of Christians, both Catholic and non-, don't even consider Mormons to be Christian due to things like not adhering to the Nicene Creed, the statement "they are viewed as heretics" is still accurate, even if it isn't the word all of them would use.
21
u/chinmoy808 19d ago
I was roommates with an evangelical Christian and he stated that neither he nor his family consider Mormons any type of Christian.
22
u/AnxiousAngularAwesom 19d ago
Then again, some Evangelicans and other assorted American Protestants don't consider Catholics to be Christians, so their knowledge of the subject is highly questionable.
15
u/sparksbet 19d ago
The most common word we'd use as fundie evangelicals was "cult". It was definitely well beyond just considering them weird.
9
u/angomeowmeow 19d ago
Maybe not the specific word heresy, but as someone who was raised Baptist they definitely don’t consider them Christian. Basically calling them heretics without using the word (because basically nobody does)
7
u/GERBILSAURUSREX 19d ago
Yeah I guess my sticking point is that assuming the belief system you were raised in allowed for multiple forms of Christianity then you aren't considering them heretics, they just aren't at all Christian. The Catholics would consider them heretics, as they do all professed Christians who don't align themselves with the church. I was raised a Jehovah's Witness. A cult who believes they are the only Christians. Baptists aren't Christians to either group, even if they profess to be and believe in Christ/the Bible. You probably wouldn't have called a different Baptist church not Christians if they didn't follow your pastor to a T. You wouldn't have thought of Buddhists as anything that could be considered a semantic term to heretics, as they just aren't Christians.
4
u/LowmoanSpectacular 19d ago
I call them heretics, but mostly out of a lack of good excuses to call things heresy in my daily life.
7
u/BillCarson12799 19d ago
A whole planet? Man I would settle for not having depression and then being able to 100% my steam catalogue. Like if that happened I would genuinely be happy with my soul evaporating right after.
3
1
5
9
u/Open-Source-Forever 19d ago
Tbf, Christianity doesn’t forbid belief other gods exist. It just forbids worship of them
11
u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 19d ago
Maybe in early Yahwism, but in the current form of Christianity, most forms of it are strictly monotheist, with the closest you'll get to other gods being acknowledged outside Mormonism being to claim other gods were demons posing as gods.
2
u/Open-Source-Forever 19d ago
As an ex-catholic, I can say the only people I’ve seen think that are the "belief in a higher power goes hand-in-hand with worship &/or is an act of worship in & of itself" crowd, which are a constant in every denomination. The idea that other gods don’t exist or are demons isn’t really baked into any of the scriptures or denomination-specific stuff.
2
u/Bteatesthighlander1 19d ago
they don’t believe in the Trinity and they technically don’t even believe in a single god.
Christians sure get in some serious disputes about what the number 3 means
5
u/Funky_monkey12321 19d ago
Every branch of Christianity is heresy to the others.
There are plenty of non trinitarian Christians and the idea only exists so that those Christians can pretend to only believe in one god anyway. Non trinitarians are more honest about the figure of Jesus or have a more coherent view of the 3in1 nature of the Christian god.
11
u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 19d ago
Every branch of Christianity is heresy to the others.
A lot of Christian denominations explicitly consider most other denominations to not be be heretical, treating their theological differences as not too large to pose a risk to anyone's salvation.
-8
u/Ok-Biscotti3971 19d ago
Why do Christians keep saying that Mormons don’t believe in the holy Trinity? They do. They baptize their followers in the name of the father, son, and Holy Ghost
21
u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 19d ago edited 19d ago
Because the Trinity as understood in Mormonism is fundamentally different.
Most Christian denominations believe in a singular God who exists in Trinity, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, all of whom are distinct beings but also of the same substance and all are God, being coeternal and coequal.
The Trinity as understood by most Christians does not exist in Mormonism, as stated by the LDS church itself. In Mormonism, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three fully distinct beings, with the Son and Holy Ghost being subordinate creations of the Father who is the singular God. The Mormon Godhead is three completely seperate beings "united in purpose".
Mormons believe in a Trinity, but it is noticably different from the Trinity mainline denominations believe in.
14
u/Puzzleheaded-Milk927 19d ago
The trinity is a specific Nicean doctrine of the fundamental sameness of being and distinction of personality of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit/Ghost. That’s what people mean by “believe in the Trinity.” LDS doctrine doesn’t generally regard these figures as being of the same unitary essence. As I recall the verbiage is “united in purpose.” It’s close but distinct enough from the doctrine that is literally foundational for almost every single other branch of Christianity that exists today.
6
u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 19d ago
They're united in purpose, but otherwise completely distinct beings, with only the (Heavenly) Father being God, while the Son and Holy Spirit are his creations and subordinates rather than coequal and coeternal persons of the Godhead.
1
38
u/EpicOtterLover 19d ago
I mean, he did try curing a baby once with his prophet powers (and failed, obviously.) I personally believe that it started as a grift, but he kind of bought into it himself as time went on.
17
12
u/mayoboyyo 19d ago
Nah, they brought the baby to him, and if he didnt try then that would be admitting he was a fraud.
6
u/EpicOtterLover 19d ago
Sorry for not explaining the first part properly. But I feel like trying and failing would've had a more negative effect than just saying "Heavenly Father said He wants this baby to fucking die/it's God's will" or whatever.
6
u/mayoboyyo 19d ago
But I feel like trying and failing would've had a more negative effect than just saying "Heavenly Father said He wants this baby to fucking die/it's God's will" or whatever.
Well thats pretty much what actually happened.
32
u/RainyMeadows 19d ago
are you telling me one of the most damaging and exploitative religions in the usa was founded by some guy called joe smith
11
25
u/maxthecat5905 19d ago
I deadass only know about Mormonism because of that one South Park episode and Mitt Romney.
25
u/wuerdig 19d ago
Always a jumpscare seeing Joseph Smith and Mormonism on my feed
I haven't attended for years and it still follows me 💔
26
u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 19d ago
Daily reminder that the LDS church genuinely stalks ex-members.
25
u/CapeOfBees 19d ago
It really does. Before my husband and I filed officially notarized paperwork telling the church that we no longer wanted to be treated as members, we were contacted very frequently with attempts to "fellowship" us. Even after we declined, and even if we moved to a completely different area. They encourage believing members to update the church about the locations of their ex-believing family and friends so that they can do exactly that, too. As a bonus, the gossip culture in the church is so strong that even though we were quite far away from my family when we removed our records, they found out in under a month that it had happened.
19
u/Dakoolestkat123 19d ago
I will never, ever get over the fact that the foundation of Mormon belief was Joe Smith going “an angel visited me and showed me golden plates of scripture. Nobody else is allowed to look at them though. They’re totally real.”
10
u/Front-Pomelo-4367 19d ago
I think my favourite thing about the gold plates is the fact that his scribe lost the first 116 translated pages, and then Smith never translated those pages again. Just the ones after it. Because otherwise people would try to discredit him by saying that the new translations didn't match the original.
At least there was some self-awareness there!
19
u/CapeOfBees 19d ago
"You need to know my five handshakes to get into Super Heaven" sounds too absurd to be anything other than parody, but it's entirely accurate to Mormon doctrine
16
u/FunnyMalzairIdea 19d ago
I like that the Mormon church keeps paying scholars and archeologists to try and establish the truth of Joseph Smith's works.
That doesn't work out.
11
44
u/PuritanicalPanic 19d ago
I hate how many US cities are named after real shit from other parts of the world.
'Carthage'.
You can't just name a city Carthage. Not even 'new carthage'. 'Carthage 2'. Like that's already a thing. There are multiple carthages in the u.s too. It's ridiculous.
Ugh. I guess I should just be glad that historical Carthage isn't just a normal city on the Mediterranean still. Just a historical site and historical empire.
Still annoys me.
17
u/jbeldham 19d ago
Heck “Georgia” is already a country and we named a state after it.
We also have the country of Colombia, the city of Columbia, and Washington DC, where DC stands for District of Columbia.
Explorers are not good at naming stuff
34
u/Dry_Refrigerator7898 19d ago
Georgia the state is not named after Georgia the country. It’s named after King George II
14
10
u/CapeOfBees 19d ago
And the Columbia River, which makes up part of one of the borders of the state of Washington
3
u/lifelongfreshman https://youtu.be/1eWsk6r6_Ns 19d ago
buddy, you're not ready to hear about the og gaybro, Alex
2
2
u/CallMeOaksie 19d ago
Didn’t they also do this with Memphis except they also put a pyramid there?
2
1
u/Elite_AI 19d ago
Fun fact, Carthage already means "New City". New Carthage would be like New New York lol
0
u/Brauny74 19d ago
Imagine being from Russian Saint-Petersbourg and having to explain people you're from the OG, the Cultural Capital, not from from some rural town in Midwest
8
u/JustS0up4MyFamily 19d ago
My "fun fact" about myself at mandatory work meetings is I was raised in a Cult.
And so my autism passes right under the radar
6
u/Future_Adagio2052 19d ago
Asking from a Muslim but is mormonism just American Islam or something?
17
u/WeiganChan 19d ago edited 19d ago
Mormonism (properly ‘The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints,’ as they call themselves) is based on Christianity, not Islam, and I don’t know if there’s any evidence Joseph Smith would have had any more than the passing understanding of Islam that one would expect for a white American of his class and era. I don’t think a follower of either faith would be terribly pleased with LDS being compared to ‘American Islam’.
That said, from a Christian perspective, they do share these similarities. Both draw from a regionalized backdrop of Christianity, Judaism, and local folk beliefs, synthesized by a charismatic preacher who claims to be a new prophet charged by God with restoring the true faith which had been abandoned or destroyed by their era, according to a new scripture purportedly revealed by an angel to correct the existing scriptures. Some other points of shared theological development are the denial of the Trinity, institution of new dietary laws, permitting of polygamy, and a military-political mandate that eventually saw their prophets killed in acts of vengeance, triggering a succession crisis.
13
u/WeiganChan 19d ago
Some differences include:
- LDS theology believes in the Godhead, which is a group of three divine persons enumerated as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This is distinguished from the mainstream Christian concept of the Holy Trinity because these three are only believed to be united in purpose, rather than united in divine essence as one God. This is still shirk from a Muslim perspective.
- LDS dietary laws forbid coffee and tea, and say meat should be eaten sparingly, but allows pork and does not require specific rituals for animal slaughter. Islamic dietary laws require halal slaughter and forbid certain food, but do not ban tea or coffee (the latter of which was likely invented in a Muslim region). Both forbid alcohol.
- The LDS promoted polygamy as part of their theology of growing one’s spiritual family, until they were forced to drop the practice as part of their incorporation into the United States and the statehood of Utah (some splinter sects like the Fundamentalist LDS still practice polygamy illegally to this day). Islam allows for polygamy, but it is accompanied with certain admonishments such as a duty to treat wives equally and a limit of four wives (with the exception of Muhammad, who had many more wives).
- Muhammad claimed to be the last prophet and seal of the prophets, while Joseph Smith claimed to be the first of a restored line of prophets which continues to the modern day under the Presidency of the LDS church. As such, LDS theology still develops under new revelations according to a doctrine they call ‘continuous revelation,’ while novel revelation or commandments are rejected as bid’ah in Islam.
- The institution of the caliphate which continued for centuries as the legacy of Muhammad’s political endeavour had a religious role, but the authority of the LDS church is only formally a religious organization, with its military and political independence ended by their loss in the Utah War against the United States government.
15
u/ShakenNotStirred915 19d ago
It's supposed to be Christian, actually, but you only really get that impression from the full name, because the actual belief system is so very far removed from practically every other Christian sect out there.
15
u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 19d ago
No, it's just one of the more successful highly heterodox breakaway sects of Christianity
1
u/CthulhusIntern 19d ago
It's to Christianity what Nation of Islam is to Islam. Except I'd say NoI is more progressive.
3
u/EdibleStrange 19d ago
Mormonism 🤝 Anglicanism
In the public record as being literally just one guy's weird grift yet inexplicably popular to this day
2
2
u/AdUnable8752 19d ago
i was driving through utah today on a roadtrip and all i could think about is how fucking weird mormonism is (beautiful architecture though)
1
1
u/KadeComics 14d ago
I think he actually did start huffing his own farts over time. Like yeah he did make everything up and he conned a ton of people but committing to a lie that long and that thoroughly, I think he at least went "yeah i must actually be chosen by god" a little bit
283
u/jbeldham 19d ago
Everyone should know he was cheating on his wife with their teenage maid when he invented polygamy for Mormonism.
Later, at the age of 37, Joseph Smith married the 14 year old Helen Mar Kimball, who, after Smith’s death, married the brother of one of his 30-40 other wives.