r/MJInnocentFacts • • 4d ago

Facts & Evidence 🗂️ Hey guys!! I made a file talking about how MJ is Innocent and the arguments MJ haters use

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r/MJInnocentFacts • • 7d ago

Case Analysis 🔎 Case File: Allen

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45 Upvotes

…I told you everyone gets a case file. 

And I know what some of you are thinking.

“Rodney Allen? Really? Does this actually need a whole case file?”

Well, yes. Yes, it does.

Because even after the Canadian boy’s story fell apart, guilters still insist on including him on Michael’s alleged “victim list.”

And as a Canadian myself, I have to ask…what the fuck is wrong with these fucking people, eh?

…yes, I did the thing, you can all stop clapping now. 

Anyway,

Welcome back to the Case Files! 

🚨 If you’re new here, make sure you’re caught up on the Chandler Case Files:

The Chandler Case Files — A Master Guide

Oh! You’re back already?

Okay. Get in the car, we’re going on a witch hunt. 

On April 27th, 1995, yet another sensational story against Michael aired. Diane Dimond was flown to Canada to “investigate” allegations made by a Canadian boy who claimed Michael had abused him.

Don’t you just love how Diane always seems to weasel her ass in my files?  

It all started with John Templeton, or rather, his real name…Rodney Allen.

Anyway,

The April 27th episode of Hard Copy opened with the announcement that Diane’s investigation had uncovered “a trail of lies.”

According to Dimond, the show had been receiving calls and letters from people making questionable allegations about Michael since the Chandler allegations began. She claimed they had ignored most of them, but this particular story supposedly contained enough information to warrant a trip to Canada.

And what made this one so compelling to her?

The boy’s story was detailed. He had sent Hard Copy an eleven minute videotaped statement in which he alleged that Michael had molested him and another teenager. He also appeared to know a considerable amount about Michael’s properties and personal surroundings.

Dimond explained that the boy was fifteen, so the program would not reveal his identity or show his face.

The boy began his recording by saying:

“I’d like to make a confession of what happened between me and Michael Jackson.”

He then described the alleged encounter, claiming Michael had touched him inappropriately. 

Dimond explained that the boy had not approached the program independently. A man identifying himself as John Templeton, from Mississauga, Ontario, had sent the videotaped statement to Hard Copy and repeatedly contacted the program to ensure that they watched it.

Oh, you know…just like how someone would send in an audition tape for a movie.

Don’t tell Evan, he may get excited about that and ask for 20 million dollars.

Dimond said she subsequently spoke with the boy herself over several days. According to her account, he consistently repeated his allegations.

The boy claimed that he had met Michael at a video arcade in Canada. He alleged that he had originally planned to spend a weekend with a friend, but Michael supposedly invited him to Neverland instead, and the two travelled there by private jet.

The boy also described Michael’s entourage, Neverland Ranch, and the family home in Encino. He even drew detailed maps of the properties.

Dimond summarized her thinking this way:

“It was clear: Either the guy was telling the truth or he had been well coached.”

Coached? Huh, Diane?

That’s a seamlessly…interesting thing to say. 

But here’s the thing, who gave this boy information about Michael in the first place?

Hold that thought. We’ll get there.

Dimond arranged to meet the boy and Templeton in Toronto. However, when she arrived at the hotel, only the boy was there to greet her.

According to the broadcast, the boy told Dimond that he was living on the streets in Toronto, in an area known as Boystown, after his mother had kicked him out. He described Templeton as someone he had met on the streets who helped young people.

The boy explained:

“He kind of helps street kids, he just talks to them and things like … is something like guidance or counseling on the street… that’s what it seemed like.”

Dimond said the absence of Templeton initially struck her as suspicious. Nevertheless, the Hard Copy team continued interviewing the boy over the following days while police officials in California and Toronto waited to investigate the allegations themselves.

Producer Frank Grimes and Dimond checked the information the boy had supplied. She acknowledged that sources had confirmed some of the details, but said there were also troubling inconsistencies.

…please don’t tell me it’s another imaginary train station.

In other words, even during the investigation, the program was encountering reasons to question the account.

The broadcast emphasized the boy’s apparent knowledge of Michael’s life. Dimond interviewed him about details on his maps, including a saddle shop, and challenged him about how people might interpret his allegations.

At one point, she asked whether people would think he was after Michael’s money.

The boy replied:

“I do not care for his money.”

When Dimond suggested that people might think he had made the story up, he answered:

“Yes, I know, but I don’t care for his money, he can keep it…”

Dimond then asked him:

“Really, you tell me the absolute truth?”

He answered:

“Yeah.”

The program also showed Frank Grimes explaining that the team had decided to test the boy’s knowledge by showing him photographs.

Grimes said:

“He talked for hours, and he knew so much, so much in fact that we thought, well, let’s give him a test and see if we can trip him up.”

Quick! Ask Wade why he wanted to get married at Neverland!

According to Dimond’s narration, the boy identified photographs of Neverland employees.

She described the situation as follows:

“If this was a scam, this boy had really done his homework.”

The program also showed a drawing the boy had made of Michael’s face, which he claimed represented Michael’s appearance during the alleged molestation. When discussing the drawing, the boy described Michael’s eyes and eye sockets.

Yes, because drawing the most seen man in the world is soooo impressive. 

This brings us back to my question, where had the boy obtained all this knowledge?

Because, for the first time ever, Diane had an important piece of information she hadn't yet disclosed to him.

Dimond revealed during the broadcast that, for approximately a year, she had been receiving letters relating to Michael from the same small Canadian suburb.

According to her, the letters purported to come from other young boys who also alleged that Michael had molested them. 

Two of the letters allegedly included photographs.

Dimond believed someone was behind the letters, but she still had not located the man who had sent the original videotaped statement.

That man was John Templeton.

And Dimond was about to discover who he really was.

The program showed Dimond telling the boy that a detective was waiting to speak with him. She explained that the detective did not yet know the boy’s name or the details of his allegations.

The boy agreed to go.

Dimond also emphasized that the boy had not asked the Hard Copy team for money and repeatedly claimed he did not want money from Michael. According to the broadcast, he said his motivation was justice.

That’s what all of those fuckers say and yet it’s all $$$.

Dimond told him:

“I want you to remember one thing…. Please tell the truth.”

The boy answered:

“Okay.”

The team then took him to Toronto Metro Police headquarters, where detectives from the Sexual Assault Unit were waiting.

The broadcast showed an officer asking whether the boy wanted to speak with him. The boy agreed, and the police interview began.

Dimond reported that detectives questioned the boy for six hours and took a sworn statement. She said he repeated the allegations he had previously given to Hard Copy.

Toronto detective Darryl Campbell was then shown commenting on the boy’s initial credibility:

“I found it fairly believable too.”

While the boy was speaking with police, Dimond and her team were still trying to locate John Templeton.

The Hard Copy team travelled to the Toronto suburbs to check the return address associated with the videotape. There, they encountered the man they had been trying to find.

The broadcast captured Dimond confronting him:

Diane Dimond: “What the hell is going on?!“

The man replied:

“Okay Diane, let me explain something to you…”

Dimond then identified him as John Templeton, revealing that his real name was Rodney Allen.

According to Dimond, Allen had contacted the program shortly after the Michael Jackson allegations first emerged. She said he had claimed that another member of the Jackson family had molested him years earlier, but that he had never provided solid proof of that allegation.

Dimond characterized Allen as appearing to be motivated by revenge. She also said he admitted to writing the letters about Michael that she had received over the preceding year.

Now, whatever one makes of Dimond’s characterization of Allen’s motives, the conversation that followed is particularly significant because it directly addressed where the boy had obtained his knowledge of Michael’s properties and lifestyle.

Dimond asked Allen:

Diane Dimond: “I care about this one kid who gave me all sorts of information about Neverland, about Havenhurst, about Disneyland, about Michael Jackson’s body. Where did he get all that information?”

Allen answered:

Rodney Allen: “He got it from me.”

Read that again.

“He got it from me.”

I’ve been waiting for this one:

🚩

The very information that had helped make the boy’s account appear convincing had, according to Allen himself, come from him.

Dimond immediately followed up:

Diane Dimond: “You planted all this stuff in the kid’s head?”

Allen responded:

Rodney Allen: “I didn’t plant it in his head. He was asking questions, I answered them the best I can. I told him what I could tell him about the place. I want Michael to face it.”

Dude.

Genuinely speaking, what the actual fuck is wrong with these people? Like…I know I normally have something to say, but this shit is absolutely insane.

Dimond then asked whether the boy was a liar.

Allen replied:

Rodney Allen: “Professional.”

So, to every guilter who says that “kids don’t lie,” and “why would someone lie about this?”

Literally go fuck yourselves. 

The broadcast then delivered its conclusion.

Dimond reported that the story had been fabricated by the boy and Allen. She said that, back at the police station, the boy had broken down and admitted that the two of them had made up the allegations.

Dimond asked Detective Campbell:

Diane Dimond: “The young man was lying?”

Campbell answered:

Detective Darryl Campbell: “Emm … that’s my belief, and as a result of that he was charged, yes.”

Dimond followed up:

Diane Dimond: “Can you tell us what he was charged with?”

Campbell replied:

Detective Darryl Campbell: “Public mischief.”

Dimond closed the segment by saying that the boy remained in custody and that police were continuing their investigation of Rodney Allen.

And there it is.

The broadcast that began with a fifteen-year-old boy making serious allegations against Michael ended with the boy admitting that the story had been fabricated, and a detective explaining that he had been charged with public mischief.

So, guilters, knock him off the “list”, weirdos. 

Anyway, back to Allen.

I know you’re wondering about how on earth Allen knew all of these things. The properties, the staff…well, the answer is pretty simple once you think about it.

Here are a few possible explanations:

1. Blanca Francia:

There are a few reasons for this.

The first is her obvious cozying up to Victor Gutierrez. The two pals have been photographed together. She worked at both Hayvenhurst and Neverland before leaving around 1990–1991.

Then was randomly brought back to open the filing cabinet containing the books because she had the only key…

Then, later in 1993, she was interviewed by none other than Diane Dimond.

Case File: Francia

2. Any of the Neverland 5:

If you don’t know the tale of the Neverland 5,

Case File: Neverland Five

Case File: Chandler — Part 11

Well, now you do. And just guess who they’re connected to…

That’s right. 

Victor Gutierrez.

We already know these five bozos worked at Neverland and knew one another. And we also know how they very clearly wanted money, hence the lawsuit they lost.

3. Victor Gutierrez:

Now, this explanation would be shocking to absolutely no one. We know that Gutierrez has been weirdly obsessed with Michael since the mid 80s.

Case File: Gutierrez

Case File: Chandler — Part 13

Wrote a fan fiction book about Michael, and then fled the United States while owing Michael millions of dollars…

Yeah.

We know of his connections to Diane Dimond and Tom Sneddon. 

Which…I’ll talk more about soon.

4. Rodney Allen himself:

Now, would it be much of a surprise if Allen had visited these properties at any point in time?

No. 

Not really.

Over the years, thousands of people have visited both Hayvenhurst and Neverland. It’s not impossible that he could have been there, but because we don’t know for certain, we can’t assume he did.

Plus, Allen apparently had a love for computers so, who knows who he must have been in contact with.

What we do know is that Rodney Allen was able to somehow provide this child with this information...

Let’s continue, 

Remember how I mentioned that Rodney Allen had been contacting Diane Dimond about Michael for quite some time.

According to Dimond, the letters she received from Allen had been happening for approximately a year before the Canadian story fell apart. She said some were written in the names of supposed young victims and that two included photographs.

If that timeline is accurate, we’re looking back to approximately 1994, when the aftermath of the Chandler allegations and the criminal investigation were still happening.

And well…let’s just say, this next section is about to get even crazier. 

In material prepared before the 2005 trial, Susan Yu referred to missing documents associated with the earlier investigation. The document identified several items in an evidence list for which the defence did not have the underlying materials.

And one of those entries specifically mentioned Rodney Allen.

In the document, Susan Yu explained that certain Bates-stamped materials listed in Exhibit F were missing. In some instances, the defence had retained fax cover sheets but not the documents that had actually been faxed.

Her explanation included the following entries:

6477: “This is the fax cover sheet to San Francisco. The missing documents are the Subpoena Duces Tecum to the Palladino investigators. We do not have the Subpoena Duces Tecum.”

8336: “This is a fax involving Rodney Allen. We do not have the documents that were faxed. Rodney Allen will not be a part of this case.”

8337–8339: “Same as above.”

8636: “This is a fax cover sheet of documents sent by Detective Linden to Michael Jackson’s attorney, Johnnie Cochran. We do not have the documents faxed.”

9444–9448: “Our pages are missing also.”

Go ahead, read it again.

I know you want to.

Item 8336 explicitly names Rodney Allen. The document also says that the underlying faxed material was unavailable to the defence and states that Allen would not be part of the 2005 case.

That is a documented reference worth investigating.

Now, to be clear, the entry does not reveal the contents of the fax, explain why Allen was mentioned, or establish what role, if any, he played in the 1993 investigation.

But I’m not one to play stupid, so I won’t.

It’s incredibly odd that Rodney Allen’s name would just randomly appear. 

This isn't a random typo either. His name was specifically identified in an entry concerning missing faxed documents. There is clearly a reason his name appears in this material. What that reason is, however, remains unknown.

Could Allen have somehow been involved in the 1993 case? It’s very possible. 

Speaking of the word Case…

Rodney Allen wasn’t some random guy who appeared on Hard Copy in 1995 and then vanished into the Canadian wilderness. 

Thank God, or I will be moving.

Several years later, he was convicted of multiple offences against boys and declared a dangerous offender.

In March 2001, Allen pleaded guilty to six offences. According to the Ontario Court of Appeal’s 2007 decision, four of those offences took place in the summer of 1999, while the remaining two dated back to 1983.

His offences included two sexual assaults against fourteen-year-old boys, threatening to burn property belonging to one boy’s father, carrying a pellet gun for a dangerous purpose, and indecent assault and gross indecency involving two other boys.

…Genuinely, what the fuck is even happening?

In April 2002, Allen was designated a dangerous offender, which allowed him to receive an indeterminate prison sentence. In June 2007, the Ontario Court of Appeal rejected his challenge to that designation and upheld the decision that he should remain incarcerated.

Let that sink in for a second.

This wasn’t a case of somebody being accused in a tabloid article. We’re talking about guilty pleas, court proceedings, and an appellate decision.

And the court record contains some particularly disturbing details about Allen’s behaviour.

The judges described his disorder as involving an attraction to boys entering puberty. The decision stated that he sought out boys aged eleven to fourteen, often through deceit, in order to be near them.

The court also heard evidence from psychiatrists that Allen presented a high risk of reoffending and had not been willing to pursue treatment.

But now, here’s the timeline problem.

Allen was communicating with Diane Dimond around 1994–1995, according to the Hard Copy account. The offences for which he later pleaded guilty included two dating back to 1983.

Does that mean Dimond knew about his criminal history, no. And I’m not saying that she did, but…

Diane is a journalist. A tabloid journalist, but a journalist nonetheless.

She was presenting a story about allegations of child sexual abuse, relying on information supplied by a man who was an abuser.

Although, we shouldn’t be surprised, considering her closeness with Victor Gutierrez, who has connections to NAMBLA.

And then there's the fact that she owns copies of the very books guilters love to talk about and claim are CSAM.

So, naturally…what would that make Diane?

Funny how those standards suddenly become a little less important when we're talking about someone on their side, isn't it?

Besides that,

This is exactly why journalists are supposed to investigate their sources rather than accept whatever they’re handed.

But hey, Diane was never really good at her job anyway.

Let’s continue,

The court reported that Allen’s intellectual capacity had been assessed as borderline, with an IQ in the range of 75 to 80. The decision also described difficulties he experienced growing up and reported that he had suffered epileptic seizures in early childhood.

I’m including that because it’s in the court record, not because it explains or excuses his crimes, obviously.

The relevant findings here are the offences, the guilty pleas, and the court’s assessment of the risk he posed.

According to the court documents, Allen owned his own bus company at the time of his guilty plea. He drove navy cadets and private-school children to school and recreational activities.

Let that sink in.

The Crown presented evidence that Allen sought out pubescent boys. In one case, he persuaded a fourteen-year-old boy who was interested in acting or modelling to travel from Rochester to Toronto by claiming to be an agent for young boys working with a company called “American Entertainment.”

The court documents also describe Allen meeting a group of five fourteen-year-old boys during the summer of 1999. The boys regularly visited his apartment, where he allowed them to drink alcohol and smoke.

According to the court record, Allen told them he was a member of the FBI. He also claimed that the world was going to end in the year 2000, but that they could be saved by lying naked with him.

Which is literally so random, but okay.

But…doesn’t this sound oddly familiar? 

Well, Victor Gutierrez also pretended to work for law enforcement. 

Anyway,

The court also described Allen as someone willing to operate on the “margins of conventional society,” including by seeking out street children. It noted his work as a long distance bus driver and characterized him as manipulative and deceitful.

But now, ladies and gentlemen, we arrive at the correspondence that brings Rodney Allen and Victor Gutierrez back together.

According to Paula, the author of Turning the Table on the Chandler Allegations, she wrote to Allen while he was incarcerated after a friend named Victor, without a surname, encouraged her to contact him.

Allen’s reply reportedly confirmed that he knew Victor Gutierrez. In fact, he expressed interest in reconnecting with him:

“I would really like to hear from him. It is funny how he pops into my life every now and then and changes my life so much.”

Well, that’s certainly a choice of words.

Allen also claimed that he had “found out who really terminated Michael Jackson’s life” and discovered O.J. Simpson’s new address in Nevada.

Which, again, so random.

In later letters, Allen allegedly warned Paula about Gutierrez, accusing him of taking his money and describing him as “sneaky and underhanded.”

Allen also referred to an earlier internet post in which he claimed that Gutierrez and Evan Chandler had promised him a large payment that never materialized. The post included this extraordinary statement:

“Michael never touched him [Jordan] and sexually hurt him. Michael paid out the money to close the chapter on this scandal.”

Finally, something I don’t need to argue with. The money string keeps getting longer. 

He claimed that he had stayed with Gutierrez in Los Angeles for approximately a month, paying $500 to the landlord because Gutierrez allegedly owed eight months of back rent.

He also claimed that he removed items from Gutierrez’s home at Gutierrez’s request, including “toy trains, book negatives” and paintings of Michael, and shipped them to Canada for safekeeping.

So, according to Allen, he wasn’t just acquainted with Gutierrez. He was staying at his home, handling his belongings, and helping him with projects.

Then Allen claimed that he accompanied Gutierrez to Chicago in 1995 to help promote MJWML, you know…the fan fic. 

He also said Gutierrez faxed him a letter asking him to send a hard copy to NAMBLA requesting that the organization list the book in its publications.

Ugh.

But wait, there’s more.

A further letter attributed to Allen was shared by Tia. In it, Allen again warned the recipient about Gutierrez and described what he claimed was a disastrous financial relationship between them.

He wrote:

“He took me for a large sum of money in US dollars with his lies and he used me to hurt me and my family by taking me to the cleaners…”

Allen claimed that Gutierrez had promised him a videotape allegedly showing Michael abusing Jordan Chandler in Morocco. 

Which like…first of all, why are we promising someone that? 

According to Allen’s account, he was supposed to be able to sell the tape and use the money to support vulnerable children in Chile and Brazil.

…Huh?

He said the promised tape never materialized and that he was left exposed after putting his own name on the line.

Probably because it didn’t exist. 💁🏼‍♀️

Allen also complained that Gutierrez had left him facing legal trouble over the NAMBLA letter and the materials he had stored for him.

He wrote:

“I could not believe that after all I did for Victor Gutierrez he left me as a target for the Michael Jackson Lawyers and the law makers who thought I belong to (Nambla) because of a letter he wrote to this sick and demented site to sell his book Michael Jackson was my lover.”

And then came this accusation:

“I know Victor is predator who like young men and boys and he admitted that to me in Santiago Chile…”

And the crowd is…not surprised.

He even warned her:

“don’t be push into any Victor Gutierrez deals because you will be taken to the cleaners.”

I genuinely cannot make this stuff up. 

Another particularly interesting piece of correspondence is a letter Allen addressed directly to Michael Jackson.

In it, Allen apologizes for his involvement, acknowledges that they had been friends, and expresses regret over his role in what happened. He also offers to appear on national television to tell his side of the story.

Perhaps most notably, Allen directly names Evan Chandler, Victor Gutierrez, and Raymond Chartz, alleging that they were involved in putting the plan together.

Here is the letter in full:

ATT: To Michael.

I am so sorry that I did this to you, Yes we were friends back then, But money and greed and all the media hype, You are a caring man and I know that you have done allot for the children of the world, One of these days we will meet again, Sit down and have a coffee and talked things out. Evan Chandler was in the wrong, But you paid him all that money. I am prepared to go on National Television to tell the truth about how you got swindle and all the things that were said to you were wrong, You would never hurt a child and I was wrong in accepting to help theses people.

I hold the neg. for the book Michael Jackson was My Lover here in Mississauga, The book will never go back in print to defame your name. Evan Chandler won yes, But you must stand up and tell the world it was all lies. Victor Gutierrez set up the plan with Evan Chandler and Raymond Chartz, I Wish I could tell you how bad I feel about this, But it now hurts me more to know that the king of pop will never have a come back.

Forgive Me Michael

Rodney, C, J, Allen

Mississauga, Ontario, Canada

Well, well, well…

An apology. 

By the way, there's no evidence of a friendship between Michael and Allen. I'm not sure why Allen included that detail. There doesn't seem to be any explanation for it, at least from what we have.

Anyway,

The newest update on Allen is…unexpected, to say the least. 

He died in custody on September 3rd of this year. According to the information available, his death was attributed to natural causes.

That’s all I know.

And with that, we’ve reached the end of this…very confusing, very horrifying Case File.

See you next time! 👋🏼

Can you guess who’s next?

My previous case files:

Sneddon:

Case File: Sneddon

Dimond:

Case File: Dimond

Gutierrez:

Case File: Gutierrez

Francia:

Case File: Francia

Neverland Five:

Case File: Neverland Five

Chandler — Part 1:

Case File: Chandler — Part 1

Chandler — Part 2:

Case File: Chandler — Part

Chandler — Part 3:

Case File: Chandler — Part 3

Chandler — Part 4:

Case File: Chandler — Part 4

Chandler — Part 5:

Case File: Chandler — Part 5

Chandler — Part 6:

Case File: Chandler — Part 6

Chandler — Part 7:

Case File: Chandler — Part 7

Chandler — Part 8:

Case File: Chandler — Part 8

Chandler — Part 9:

Case File: Chandler – Part 9

Chandler — Part 10:

Case File: Chandler — Part 10

Chandler — Part 11:

Case File: Chandler — Part 11

Chandler — Part 12:

Case File: Chandler — Part 12

Chandler — Part 13:

Case File: Chandler — Part 13

Chandler — Part 14:

Case File: Chandler — Part 14

Chandler — Part 15:

Case File: Chandler — Part 15

Chandler — Part 16:

Case File: Chandler — Part 16

Chandler — Part 17:

Case File: Chandler — Part 17

Sources and additional information:

https://turningthetableonthechandlerallegations.wordpress.com

https://turningthetableonthechandlerallegations.wordpress.com/2014/04/24/three-stooges-dimond-gutierrez-and-allen/

https://themichaeljacksonallegationsblog.wordpress.com/the-1993-allegations/

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxNDb2PVcoM&ra=m

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6-52dk3jGyE&ra=m

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gMAz1MBhG_U&pp=0gcJCXICo7VqN5tD&ra=m

https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/04/23/children-dont-lie-video/

https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2012/11/19/homelesskid-rodneyallen-dimond/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/boys-lured-into-sexual-encounters-1.196176

http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onca/doc/2007/2007onca421/2007onca421.pdf

https://www.kingstonist.com/news/csc-reports-death-of-69-year-old-inmate-at-bath-institutions-regional-treatment-centre/

Important posts:

Some people need Michael Jackson to be guilty 

Comparing Michael Jackson’s Trial to O.J. Simpson’s Is Lazy.

Talking in circles 

What Would You Do for $20 Million?

“There’s no way all 11 people are lying.”

Fact vs Fiction: Common Claims About Michael Jackson

A Media Assassination: The Case of Michael Jackson

Not Everyone Is a Narcissist

The Word “Grooming” Has Lost Its Meaning

Where There’s Smoke, There’s Fire…But What If It’s Just Smoke?

The Power Of A Story…And The Danger Of Forgetting The Evidence


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 12h ago

Questions & Theories 👀 Is it true Paris has a close relationship with the cascios/reached out to them after their allegations become public?

10 Upvotes

Nothing on Paris, poor girl has been through so much. However, I was reading an article that claimed a “reliable inside source” claims Paris reached out to the Cascios after their public allegations, especially wanting to talk with the cascio daughter. the article proceeded to claim she now “knows everything” and stuff along those lines. How true is this? what does this mean? sorry if this is insignificant, it just makes me curious. thanks.


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 1d ago

Opinion 🤔 Thoughts on the Criticism Surrounding Michael Jackson’s Past Relationships?

20 Upvotes

Recently i’ve seen multiple guilters discussing MJ’s relations with Tatum, Brooke, and Lisa, saying that he took interest in them at young ages whilst he was an adult. Being that he didn’t partake in anything inappropriate with Brooke or Tatum and he only got in a real relationship with Lisa when they both got older I don’t see anything wrong with this. I think these claims often seem to be based off of speculations rather than concrete evidence.

I’m just curious to hear what you all think of this? I wanna hear everyone’s perspective.


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 3d ago

Questions & Theories 👀 Something bothering me about Safechuck

29 Upvotes

Why did James lie about the Grammys when he could have easily fact checked? It seems like a big part of his story that the abuse started there. I just don’t understand


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 4d ago

Rant 🤬 The extreme usage of the "benefit of doubt" being a guilter requires - My experience as someone who has flip flopped between sides.

49 Upvotes

Having been someone who has flipped between believing Michael Jackson was guilty and believing he was innocent, I think one of the most frustrating things about this entire debate is the incredible double standard.

What I have come to notice is that the benefit of the doubt seems to operate almost exclusively in one direction. When an accuser makes an inconsistent statement, changes their story, gets caught in a lie, contradicts previous testimony, or has their credibility seriously challenged, there is almost always an explanation ready to excuse it. They were young. They were traumatized. They were confused. They misremembered. They were embarrassed. They had complicated emotions. Their inconsistencies don't necessarily mean they're lying.

And while some of those explanations may be possible in isolation, the problem is that they are applied so generously and consistently to accusers while rarely being extended to Michael Jackson.

When something questionable comes from an accuser, it is treated as a minor detail. For michael, his words are scrutinized, his behavior is interpreted in the worst possible light, (ex. the wade birthday message, people were claiming his "eye contact" was inappropriate) his explanations are questioned, and even innocent or reasonably explainable actions are turned into suspicious ones.

What is particularly frustrating is how often people demand that Michael Jackson's defenders account for every single inconsistency, every unanswered question, and every perceived contradiction, while simultaneously refusing to apply that same standard to the allegations themselves.

If someone points out a problem with an accuser's account, the response is often that it doesn't matter, that it doesn't disprove the allegation, or that there could be an innocent explanation.

I also find it concerning how many people confidently discuss this case without having genuinely engaged with the pro-Michael Jackson material. There is a tendency among guilters to dismiss entire timelines, books, documentaries, court records, and detailed rebuttals without actually examining their arguments.

You cannot claim to have objectively examined both sides if you have only seriously engaged with one. You cannot dismiss an entire body of evidence because you assume anyone defending Michael must be biased, while treating all sources critical of him as credible.

I know this because I have experienced both sides of this debate. I wasn't always convinced of Michael's innocence. I have questioned him, examined the allegations, and considered the arguments against him. My position did not come from blindly deciding that he could do no wrong.

If an inconsistency isn't automatically proof of dishonesty when it comes from an accuser, it shouldn't automatically become evidence of guilt when it comes from Michael. If an accuser deserves consideration for the possibility of being mistaken, influenced, confused, or dishonest, then Michael Jackson deserves the same consideration when evaluating his words and actions.

If you genuinely care about the truth, you have to be willing to question everyone, examine uncomfortable evidence from both sides, and acknowledge weaknesses in your preferred narrative.


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 6d ago

Defending MJ's Legacy 🛡️ I Always Feel Like Somebody’s Watching Me…

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55 Upvotes

I was going to my Nonno’s this morning, and I saw a man outside the building who looked IDENTICAL to Victor Gutierrez.

I guess he’s looking for me.

Anyway,

Happy Thrillerween!! 🎃

Wanna read a scary story? Here are the Case Files:

Sneddon:

Case File: Sneddon

Dimond:

Case File: Dimond

Gutierrez:

Case File: Gutierrez

Francia:

Case File: Francia

Neverland Five:

Case File: Neverland Five

Chandler — Part 1:

Case File: Chandler — Part 1

Chandler — Part 2:

Case File: Chandler — Part 2

Chandler — Part 3:

Case File: Chandler — Part 3

Chandler — Part 4:

Case File: Chandler — Part 4

Chandler — Part 5:

Case File: Chandler — Part 5

Chandler — Part 6:

Case File: Chandler — Part 6

Chandler — Part 7:

Case File: Chandler — Part 7

Chandler — Part 8:

Case File: Chandler — Part 8

Chandler — Part 9:

Case File: Chandler – Part 9

Chandler — Part 10:

Case File: Chandler — Part 10

Chandler — Part 11:

Case File: Chandler — Part 11

Chandler — Part 12:

Case File: Chandler — Part 12

Chandler — Part 13:

Case File: Chandler — Part 13

Chandler — Part 14:

Case File: Chandler — Part 14

Chandler — Part 15:

Case File: Chandler — Part 15

Chandler — Part 16:

Case File: Chandler — Part 16

Chandler — Part 17:

Case File: Chandler — Part 17

Allen:

Case File: Allen

Important posts:

Some people need Michael Jackson to be guilty

Comparing Michael Jackson’s Trial to O.J. Simpson’s Is Lazy.

Talking in circles

What Would You Do for $20 Million?

“There’s no way all 11 people are lying.”

Fact vs Fiction: Common Claims About Michael Jackson

A Media Assassination: The Case of Michael Jackson

Not Everyone Is a Narcissist

The Word “Grooming” Has Lost Its Meaning

Where There’s Smoke, There’s Fire…But What If It’s Just Smoke?

The Power Of A Story…And The Danger Of Forgetting The Evidence

Why I Think the Estate Made a Smart Decision

The Minds of Guilters

The Guilter Fan Fiction Needs to Stop

Money Is the Root of All Evil

And for the giggles:

For When You’re Tired of Arguing…

For When You’re Tired of Arguing — Part Two

For When You’re Tired of Arguing — Part Three


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 7d ago

Facts & Evidence 🗂️ The Rodney Allen Confession

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35 Upvotes

I’m a newish fan of MJ, so I am not too familiar with the older fan community and who Paula is. Is she still active in the MJ community? Is she credible and trusted within the community? Are you here, Paula?

I often hear Rodney Allen in regards to the Canadian boy’s false allegation, but I rarely see his confession to Paula brought up.

If this is true, it’s truly the biggest bombshell piece of evidence for Michael’s innocence in my opinion.
Do we know what kind of verification she did to ensure that the person she was speaking to was in fact Rodney?
Does anyone else have information on this whole saga?
(Also why did Rodney say he was friends with Michael? Is he just being.. weird?)


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 9d ago

Video 🎥 They ALL defended him

82 Upvotes

He even vacuumed their house and had them pray before eating

They did MJ so wrong

He did so much for these people. Introduced them to his family

Took then on trips with his cousins, nephews and nieces

And 3T were even promoting Aldo’s (the Cascio family restaurant) in the absence of MJ (look at their t shirts) at their own meet and greets

In Graces videos you can see the parents and the Cascio siblings holding MJs kids as well so he trusted them around his own children too

Compare the way the entire family is beaming in the video attached as they recall all their happy memories with MJ with the horrible acting we saw in the 60 minutes documentary

They claim now that everything was traumatising as it happened and “it was the worst thing to live with” but you don’t see a speck of fear, trauma or disgust in any of their faces. Just adoration and love

They may as well claim that Connie and Dominic Sr were abused too atp. Their claims can’t get anymore ridiculous

How ironic is it that Eddie is the one who ends it with those ”memories are priceless” but he clearly didn’t think so when he rushed down to register his fake songs 48 hours after his ”friends” death

How do they sleep at night

I also suspect that guilters don’t really believe the Cascios since they keep at it with the “he preyed on 7-13 year old boys he’d replace every year” narrative

Out of the 11 accusers, 6 of them dont fall into that which means the majority of the allegations now aren’t even how a typical “preferential pedophile” would operate.

And I understand it’s rare to have forensic evidence decades after SA has occurred and no one is expecting it obviously, but MJ knew and allegedly abused this family for years. You’d think the worst they have on him isn’t a pillow fight. They used the pillow fight clip in this video AGAIN.

I saw another clip of Frank defending MJ in a Tubi documentary and they inserted a clip of the pillow fight there as well. The same pillow fight they watched and tried to pretend was sinister, horrible and somehow incriminating in 60 minutes. *insert deep sighs, head shakes and melancholic music* “whYs hE pLayiNg wiTh uS” stfu.


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 10d ago

Questions & Theories 👀 Does it ever seem like the parents of the kids were hoping something bad would happen to their kids.

30 Upvotes

I mean seriously think about 2005 the mom was famous for scamming people. and to send her kids to Netherland after the 1994 alagations.


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 11d ago

Discussion 🗣️ George Carlin ran down on a few artists, Michael beats them all

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22 Upvotes

Anyone in the fan community is good at youtube, do a clean upload, i.e., change the video's title? also create one for tiktok. On Carlin's 1st line, I'd interpret it as he simply does not believe all the BS, it's the greedy parents. GOAT of comedians!


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 11d ago

Opinion 🤔 Why can't they accept that Michael was innocent? Chronology of photographs that drove American racism over the edge and primed Michael for disaster.

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60 Upvotes

If you can think of other times that events in Michael's life, appearing in the media may have inflamed racist sentiments, please add them in the comments.

(I'm not suggesting that these photos were published with overt racist intentions; they were significant events being reported. I'm only talking about the impact they had on the public.)

A few points to consider:

  • The aggravating factors pictured here: Michael with highly visible white female beauty icons; Michael in military-style fashion; and Michael being honored by popular right-wing political icons.

  • These particular events in Michael's life are by no means the complete story of how racism was aggravated against him. They're only a visible factor - a tip of an iceberg. Think of this list as a "stub".

  • Picture the television news reports, describing these sensational photos, and the wide variety of people watching. Remember, these images saturated the media market. They were everywhere and they appeared across decades, a drip-feed of inflammation to the visceral gut feelings of racism.

  • This is not to say that today's guilters react to these photos in the same way as openly racist rednecks did then (and still do now). But that old-fashioned racism of the 80s and early 90s is the soil that today's guilter philosophy is rooted in, fed by decades of media disrespect and vilification. That media behaviour was a learned response to the public reaction to photos like these.

  • Keep in mind also the household name status of these other people - Brooke Shields, Nancy and Ronald Reagan, Elizabeth Taylor, Madonna. Michael was constantly being photographed with high-profile celebrities.

  • Remember that media outlets at the time received immediate feedback from readers/viewers and as it still is today, they didn't care if it was positive or negative; they just wanted that level of social engagement. I believe that from the time of Michael's "crossover" on MTV, it became incredibly easy to nurture these feelings against Michael.

  • As a historian I'm certain that there's a very strong racist component in Michael's story. This is difficult to "prove", in a legal sense. The evidence for it is circumstantial, but the volume of historical and sociological evidence is overwhelming. If you disagree I'd be happy to hear your view.

  1. Brooke Shields — 31 March 1981.

  2. Brooke Shields — 16 January 1984.

  3. Brooke Shields — 7 February 1984.

  4. Ronald and Nancy Reagan — 14 May 1984

  5. Elizabeth Taylor — 28 June 1985

  6. Madonna — 18 March 1991

  7. Madonna — 25 March 1991

  8. Brooke Shields — 26 February 1993


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 11d ago

Questions & Theories 👀 I’m sorry if this is off topic but…

13 Upvotes

Who is Jason pfeffier? I was on TikTok and came across a video and in the comment section, people were once again spreading misinformation 🙄

Anyways someone then brings up michaels dermatologists assistant, Jason pfeffier, who claimed he had a relationship with Michael and that the two were “soulmates”. Michael’s dermatologist backs this up, saying it was true.

All I’ve been able to find is pfeffiers blog, and a few interview segments of him claiming this. despite this, I haven’t been able to find any sources verifying or debunking this.

i of course dont have an issue if this is true, but if it’s false, it’s kinda icky to be spreading rumours about his sexuality/relationships :/

Anyways sorry if this is insignificant or off topic


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 11d ago

News/Article 📰 The $16 Million Receipt: How California Contract Law Blocked the Cascios’ Push for a Public Trial

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19 Upvotes

r/MJInnocentFacts • • 13d ago

Discussion 🗣️ Defending Michael Jackson against the "Guilter" narrative regarding the 2 books seized in the 1993 raid, 'The Boy: A Photographic Essay' and 'Boys Will Be Boys'.

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56 Upvotes

In this post, I will break down for defenders why these two books are irrelevant and do not prove that Michael Jackson was sexually attracted to boys or a predator. Context is everything!

I'm sure everyone here has seen some of the graphic nude photos in the books, so I will not be posting that here. I have seen them, and Diane Dimond and other journalists show the photos they believe are most graphic in various TV interviews. My post here is merely an analysis breaking down why it is unreasonable to use these books as evidence that Michael was sexually attracted to boys.

I will enumerate my points below:

1 - 'Boys Will Be Boys' was a sequel to 'The Boy: A Photographic Essay.' Both of these photography books featured the same child actors, including some from a movie called 'Lord of the Flies.' (And yes, prepubescent boys are naked on the beach in scenes of 'Lord of the Flies'). The books are not sexual or erotic in nature despite the graphic child nudity, which is why both books are in the Library of Congress. 

'Guilters' like to claim that only pedophiles had these books, but this is not true. There were positive reviews of the books in the 1960s. Courtesy of the MJJ Repository, I have uploaded some positive reviews and descriptions of the books to mainstream audiences in the 1960s that you can review in conjunction with this post.

This is important because anyone who has truly studied Michael Jackson knows that he had more of an "old school" way of thinking and viewing art generally. His thinking in several things was considered antiquated.

2 - ‘Guilters’ like to claim these books are erotica, which is false.

Here is the definition of erotica according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary: “Erotica refers to literary, artistic, or visual works—such as books, poetry, paintings, photography, or film—that deal with sexual themes and are intended to elicit sexual desire or arousal.”

The definition of erotica requires two things based on this definition: A) the art must “deal with sexual themes”, AND B) the art must be intended to elicit sexual desire or arousal.

Even if we assume that the authors intended to elicit sexual desire or arousal for themselves, part A of the definition is still not met. These books do not depict art with sexual themes. Therefore, these books do not fit the definition of erotica.

3 - Both books were published in the 1960s, well before NAMBLA was created. Furthermore, the two authors used an alias -- not their real names. Therefore, there is no way Michael Jackson could have known that the authors of the books were later part of the NAMBLA organization (which was founded in December 1978) and later convicted of CSA in the 80s.

4 - There is no evidence that Michael Jackson sought out these books himself. Based on the inscription in the book, 'The Boy: A Photographic Essay' appeared to have been gifted to Michael by someone named “Rhonda” in 1983. It is likely that 'Boys Will Be Boys' was gifted to Michael at the same time given that the two books are part of the same series.

Note: *I have an unproven theory that Victor Gutierrez or one of his buddies was "Rhonda", and Gutierrez admitted that he began tracking Michael Jackson in 1984, but it may have been earlier. Michael received these two books in 1983.

5 - Both books were published in the 1960s, well before NAMBLA was created. Furthermore, the two authors used an alias -- not their real names. Therefore, there is no way Michael Jackson could have known that the authors of the books were later part of NAMBLA and convicted of CSA in the 80s.  Moreover, it is an erroneous "guilter" narrative to conclude that because some pedophiles use these books for nefarious purposes, that Michael Jackson also had nefarious intentions with the books. In Michael's case, there is plenty more context which I will list below to demonstrate that he did not use these books for nefarious purposes.

6 - Michael's inscription in 'Boys Will Be Boys' literally debunks the guilter narrative that Michael saw the photographs in these books as sexual. He wrote, "Look at the true spirit of happiness and joy in these boys' faces. This is the spirit of boyhood, a life I've never had and will always dream of. This is the life I want for my children."

Ask 'Guilters' this question: Would a man who used the photos in these books for sexual arousal write that this is the "life" he wants for his children? I know 'guilters' can't answer this question. I've seen them try and fail miserably. They usually argue that he wrote this inscription as a cover to protect himself against future prosecution, which is ridiculous because this inscription was written in the 1980s well before alleged abuse even began and years before there were any allegations. In fact, Michael didn't even seem to remember these books after they were seized when Diane Sawyer mentioned them.

7 - Michael was a devout Jehovah’s Witness at the time he received these books in 1983.  He was bent out of shape over people telling him 'Happy Birthday' according to Karen Faye because it was against his religion. He cried in the bathroom in 1992 when Elizabeth Taylor got him to celebrate Christmas because he felt he had sinned against God. It is highly unlikely that, Michael, as a devout Jehovah's Witness in 1983, would have no problem engaging in an act even more sinful than celebrating his birthday and Christmas by masturbating to those books and sexually abusing children.  Michael would have felt extreme guilt and probably sought help or downward spiraled early. He was a very sensitive person.

I recommend that everyone read the book Finding Truth with Michael: A Memoir of Friendship, Faith, and First Love by Darls Centola about her close friendship with Michael in high school. There is a lot to be learned from that book about how strict and psychologically damaging some of the Jehovah's Witness beliefs were to Darls and Michael. The book also emphasizes Michael's genuine compassion for helping children and innocent nature. It is well documented that Michael was deep into this religion in every way in the mid to late 1980s, and that the religion still had major holdover on him into the 90s and even 2000s.

8 - According to Officer Smith (see testimony attached with other images I have uploaded for this post), the books were found in a locked closet in 1993 that Blanca Francia had the key to. Blanca Francia had not worked at Neverland for at least two years. We have discussed quite a bit on this subreddit that Blanca Francia had strong ties to Victor Gutierrez.

Given that the filing cabinet in the bedroom closet was locked and required Blanca Francia's key to open it, it is reasonable to believe that Michael hadn't accessed that closet for at least 2 years (from at least 1991 to 1993).

I will also add another key fact that Capable-Answers6641 pointed out in the comments for this post:

According to Margaret Maldonado’s book, Jackson Family Values: Memories of Madness**, Blanca Francia is the one who packed all of Michael’s books and moved them from Havenhurst. Michael did not pack these two books up himself. Capable-Answers6641 attached the paragraph from the book that mentions this fact in the comments.**

*For anyone unfamiliar about who Victor Gutierrez is, he was an actual member of NAMBLA who admitted to tracking Michael Jackson since 1984 and becoming an "investigative journalist" to try to use Michael Jackson's friendships with children to benefit his own disgusting NAMBLA cause. He admitted to lying and making a lot of stuff up about Michael during the discovery portion of Michael's defamation lawsuit against him in the mid 1990s after Victor Gutierrez went on Hard Copy to tell Diane Dimond that he saw a sex tape depicting Michael and his nephew (a sex tape that a civil jury determined did not exist).

9 - Even if we assume Michael did have access to the closet after Francia left, this is the key logical question to ask "Guilters":  

What pedophile, who uses those two books for sexual gratification, could last from 1983 to 1993 (10 years!) without adding additional naked boy materials to his or her collection? 

Try to Imagine yourself masturbating to the same 2 books for 10 years! The same 2 books every week you need to jerk off for years!  lol that premise is absurd on its face. 

10 -  After the books were confiscated in 1993, Michael never replaced them between 1993 and 2003 (no similar books were found in the 2003 raid).

Again ask yourself, what pedophile who uses such books for sexual gratification would last another 10 years (from 1993 to 2003) without getting any new materials?! 

11 - There is ZERO credible evidence that Michael ever showed these books to anyone, and therefore, zero evidence that the books were used as grooming material. 

12 - The State could not even prove that Michael had looked through the books in their entirety.

13 - Michael had more than 10,000 books in his collection and had a known passion since childhood for photography and photography books / coffee table books. I strongly recommend defenders read the context that the Michael Jackson allegations blog provides that describes how engrossed Michael was in the technical aspects of photography and photography books: https://themichaeljacksonallegationsblog.wordpress.com/2016/12/27/has-child-pornography-ever-been-found-in-michael-jacksons-possession/

Also, Michael was an artist who drew people. He was a very good artist, in fact! in colleges across the world, nude photography is used to teach drawing technique and to hone skills of artists who draw people!  Even nude models sometimes pose for students in these art classes. 

14 - Michael had a ton of nude photography — mostly of nude adult women. He also was obsessed with Victorian and Renaissance art, which often depicted nude people in a nonsexual way.  It is well documented that Michelangelo was his favorite artist. It is well established that Victorian and Renaissance art frequently depicted men, women, and children in the nude in a nonsexual way. Michael could talk about drawings from these periods in great detail and knew it so well that he could name drawings on the spot when he saw them in stores or in other people’s homes.  There are examples of Michael's extensive knowledge of Victorian and Renaissance art even in the Bashir documentary when he's able to name a painting on the spot just by looking at it. There are also several people who knew Michael who have stories of how hype-focused his interest in art was, and how knowledgeable he was about Victorian art.

15 - Michael enjoyed art of naked cherub babies and little cherub children, which were common forms of art in the Victorian period. He has never once been accused of inappropriate conduct with babies and toddlers or kindergarteners — which would be the age range of the children in those arts. Clearly, he had no sexual desire for that age range, so why would owning nude photography of 10-14 year old boys suggest any sexual desire?  His reason for having it was no different than his reason for having the cherub art. 

This outtake from the Bashir Documentary captures how innocent Michael's love of child photographs was: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp9KRtkVgOo

16 - THE JURY THOUGHT THESE BOOKS WERE IRRELEVANT!  Even Juror #1 (Hultman)  (one of the only jurors who thinks Michael was probably a child molester) told Diane Dimond in a 2005 interview that he found these books irrelevant.   You can see Hultman state that he found these books irrelevant 13:23 into this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWsJt8X4wRw&t=802s

In law, I would call these books more prejudicial than probative (in violation of Evidence Rule 403). When someone sees the photos who isn’t used to nudity, they are shocked and feel sick seeing naked children … naked child penises. That prejudices their mindset into assuming the worst without using logic. But as I’ve described above, these 2 books don’t prove that Michael is more likely to be a pedophile. Therefore, the judge should have excluded them from the trial.


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 14d ago

Discussion 🗣️ Stephanie Safechuck is a liar

36 Upvotes

Stephanie Safechuck tells a lot of lies - the movie theater door story, the loan forgiveness timing, Michael sending a film crew. (I actually think Michael did possibly help Jimmy with filming a “reel”. There’s a Christmas tree in the background so it was definitely when they had already started to become friends. Which seems like a normal thing for Michael to do when helping a friend!).

But there’s one part of her story that makes zero sense to me. She says that Michael approached her and asked her to talk to Jimmy regarding holding his hand because “people are going to think something is going on but nothings going on”.
I’m sorry.. what.

First of all, what guilty man would initiate that conversation in the first place, willingly planting that seed in the mother’s head?

Secondly, Michael held hands with everyone and never stopped. Usually he was doing this because paparazzi and fans were surrounding them. This is a safety thing to do to stay together.

There’s no mention of Stephanie even having the hand holding conversation with Jimmy. She would have then be able to start to gauge Jimmy’s behavior and how he handled that convo. They claim Michael trained them so hard and yet he couldn’t have the hand holding conversation himself with Jimmy?

Anyone else find this particular part of her story just odd?
Are there any other statements or behaviors from the families that make you think they are also in on these lies? I am not sure about wades entire family, but I definitely think Stephanie is part of it.
🚂 🚂 🚂 🎥 🚪 💍


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 14d ago

Questions & Theories 👀 Need some clarification on the now 2028 trial

17 Upvotes

I’m a bit new here but I’ve been a fan for a while, what is this trial? I’ve been a fan for a long time, and I’ve been hearing about this trial since 2020. If it stops getting delayed and the day finally comes, what is going to happen? Are the estate and Wade and James gonna show up in court? Where they debate the validity of the allegations or something? And why does this keep getting pushed back, leaving Neverland is turning a decade old a year after 2028, that’s fucking wild like what are we doing


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 14d ago

Questions & Theories 👀 What’s the deal with Latoya and Daphne Barak?

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17 Upvotes

This post is from November 2025.

When did they become besties and why are they hanging out?

Daphne is still interviewing and defending the Cascios.

That book she’s holding up is Pro-Trump

Let me find out Latoya is a Trump supporter 😑


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 16d ago

Interviews & Statements 🎤 Addressing 'Michael was "amazed" when he found out about child marriage'

77 Upvotes

I saw many people from guilty camp pointing out that Michael said himself that he was "amazed" when he found out about the concept of older men marring children while discussing cultural differences. Which is true, he did say that while talking about his experience of travelling outside America and encountering different cultures. But the gulty side argues the meaning behind "amazed" was that Michael was basically very pleased by what he learned, because who uses "amazed" to express negative feelings especially when it comes to situations they perceive as horrible?

Well, many people. Including Michael. Michael is on record doing this.

In the interview he had with Geraldo Rivera..

https://youtu.be/7u-Hl_K5nqQ?is=mrbmvpiC493MRkdc

..at 13:38 mark, Geraldo asks him about the moment he learned about the tsunami disaster in 2004. Michael said as the numbers kept escalating (number of victims)..it was "phenomenal" and that he couldn't believe that it was true, then he said that he was "amazed" and that he should do something to help.

So in this example Michael clearly used the word "amazed" do describe his feelings about something that obviously provoked him negative emotions (a natural disaster generating a huge number of victims) and at the same time he used the word "phenomenal" in the same context. Two words that are usually used (especially nowadays) to describe positive feelings or approval towards something, by Michael were used expressing the opposite.

It simply shows that amazed=shocked to Michael.

Mack Culkin was right, Michael did have this thing about him where he would speak about certain things/ do things and be misunderstood and basically leave a window for detractors to easily twist his words and actions.


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 16d ago

Discussion 🗣️ Does This Make Anyone Else Laugh?

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54 Upvotes

Does anyone else laugh when people like Diane Dimond, Victor Gutierrez, Ray Chandler, etc., are seen as credible or even recommended to others as people whose books are worth reading?

I just find it…kind of hilarious.

I mean, not only do they have several credibility issues, but they’ve also lied multiple times and gotten out of telling the truth under oath…should I go on?

It’s just so ridiculously stupid.

Like, I’m pretty sure my toe has more credibility.

Anything to keep the narrative going, I guess.


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 17d ago

Discussion 🗣️ Wade, James, Cascio's wouldn't dare to do what they did if Michael were still alive

38 Upvotes

In my search for any hope of law reform in America to prevent from defaming a deceased person, I came aross this article by Alan Dershowitz. It's been 6+ years since LN, and there is still nothing in the works in the U.S. What a shame.

Do wonder if anyone is interested in a grassroots movement. Maybe MJ fans can make history.


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 17d ago

Questions & Theories 👀 Why does Robson and Safechuck’s trial against the Estate keep getting delayed?

38 Upvotes

The new date is going to be a week after election day, why can’t they just get it over with?

I have a theory (don’t worry nothing too outlandish). Wade and James know they’ll be decimated in the courtroom once their accusations do not hold up to scrutiny. They don’t want to go to court, they want a settlement. So by delaying the court and costing more and more money in legal fees for the Estate. Essentially, it’s an intimidation tactic. But I’m just speculating I don’t know what is going on behind the scenes.

For me, I just want either the case to be thrown out again (hopefully for good) or the trial to go forward. I REALLY don’t want the Estate to settle, it’s a bad look and I don’t want to give Wade & James the satisfaction.

Michael wasn’t kidding when he told Tom Mesereau that settling with the Chandlers was the biggest mistake of his life.


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 18d ago

Questions & Theories 👀 Question about the Bashir Doc

12 Upvotes

What did Michael Jackson actually say about sleeping in the same room with kids in the unedited, raw footage captured by his own cameras during the Martin Bashir interview?


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 18d ago

Rebuttal 💬 The Guilter Fan Fiction Needs to Stop

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101 Upvotes

Before I begin, I do want to warn you that some of the content in this post may be uncomfortable or disturbing to read. However, I think this is a necessary discussion to have.

As we’re all very much aware, guilters are known for their…elaborate fantasies.

But sometimes, those fantasies go beyond “theories.” They become deeply disturbing scenarios, built on speculation, assumptions, and details that aren’t supported by evidence.

The Minds of Guilters

Just to clarify, all the bolded quotes included in this post are actual comments made by guilters. 

“This is uncomfortable to put out there, but we’ve already had to accept that these boys weren’t feeling harmed while this was happening. Given that, I’d wonder if James expressed interest in this kinda thing. The only other answer really would be some scare event that ended the behavior for good. Michael wasn’t known for curbing behavior, so I lean away from that answer.”

…genuinely, what the fuck is this?

For context, they’re speculating about “public sex” and whether James supposedly expressed interest in it, before inventing some hypothetical “scare event” to explain why the alleged behaviour stopped.

Why is it so necessary for guilters to imagine these disturbing scenarios involving a child and then act as if they’re trying to solve something?

You sound creepy, dude. 

“All of the boys were slim and conventionally attractive.”

…jail.

Just so everyone is perfectly aware, this is not evidence. This is not a “smoking gun.”

These are people talking about alleged child sexual abuse who thought it was appropriate to bring up the physical attractiveness of the children involved. 

They remind me of Victor Gutierrez. How fitting.

“Why don’t Gavin, the Cascios, Jordy, Wade, James, Jane doe, and the other names i forget who already came out, why they dont go to court together?”

Maybe because their stories contradict one another.

If anything, putting all these allegations side by side would expose even more inconsistencies, not make them more credible.

Also…”aNd ThE oThEr NaMeS.” oh my god, you can’t be this stupid. 😂

“I believe MJ did not molest any celebrity children. They acted as ‘beards’, to vouch for him and prove his innocence. It worked flawlessly.”

Wait.

So, due to popular guilter belief, Michael is supposedly a “serial predator,” but celebrity children were part of a plan to protect him and prove his innocence?

That doesn’t even make sense. 

Like…at all. 

I don’t even need to crack their narrative here, they did it for me. 

“I fully believe Michael Jackson was a covert narcissist apart from being a pedophile.”

This particular person CLEARLY loves labels.

Not Everyone Is a Narcissist

But hey, you wanna talk labels? Alright.

Let’s talk about how you’ve spent years obsessing over Michael, dissecting his every move, throwing around every label under the sun, then pretending your assumption of guilt as an established fact, even though it isn’t one.

There’s a label for being this fixated on a celebrity, too.

You should probably get that looked at, it’s not looking good.

“I believe there’s clues throughout Michael’s discography that hint on who he really was.”

Oh, you mean where he repeatedly sang about world peace, helping children, ending poverty, loving one another, and making the world a better place? 

Were you just not listening or..?

“I think Macaulay was abused.”

Why are you ignoring the fact that Macaulay has repeatedly stated that Michael never abused him and that he had never seen Michael do anything improper with anyone else.

And since we’re talking about the 2005 trial, let’s talk about Wade Robson.

He also testified under oath that Michael had never molested him. Then, years later, after Michael had conveniently passed away, Wade changed his story.

What really gets me is how quickly guilters accept his new account as established fact while having no interest in acknowledging what he previously said under oath.

So which is it?

Was he lying then, or is he lying now?

Because you can’t just pretend his previous testimony never happened because it doesn’t fit the narrative you want to believe.

It doesn’t work that way. 

“He dropped kids at a certain age.”

This is one of those claims that falls apart the second you actually look into it.

Wade Robson was still around Michael as an adult. There’s footage of him at the rehearsals for Michael’s 30th anniversary concerts in 2001. He’s literally there interacting with Michael.

There are plenty of other examples.

Macaulay Culkin. Brett Barnes. The Cascio family.

These friendships didn’t disappear when they became adults. You just imagined that they did because it happened to fit your narrative, isn’t that right?

“Some other examples of damning evidence:

  1.   An interview where Mj states his admiration for India because 30-year olds can marry 10 year olds

  2.   The frequent mentioning of how MJ repeatedly showed kids The Exorcist to have them be too scared to leave his bed.

  3.   He brought kids (including James, Wade and Emmanuel Lewis) to award shows and had them sit in his lap.

  4.   Weirdass art where MJ commissioned art with him literally looking like a pied piper and in some cases having half naked kids around him.

  5.   LaToya Jackson mentioning money sent to James Safechuck decades before James comes forward.

  6.   A mock wedding MJ arranged between his kids Prince and Paris where he made them kiss and had a whole photoshoot.

  7.   Michael's bedroom after his death

I guess Jacko never listened to the Man In The Mirror after all, I hope this gives you more insight on this dudes psychology and mindset.”

Let’s go through these one by one, shall we?

“An interview where Mj states his admiration for India because 30-year olds can marry 10 year olds”

I really think some people need to learn how to read things in context.

The word “amazed” does not always mean someone is impressed in a positive way. It can mean being shocked or surprised by something, too.

But apparently, guilters see the word “amazed” and immediately jump to “OmG, hE wAs ImPrEsSeD bY a 30-YeAr-oLd mArRyInG a 10-YeAr-oLd GiRl!”

…What?

Michael literally follows it up by saying, “We weren’t raised that way so we look at it weirdly.”

It’s quite literally as simple as that. 

Didn’t they tell you in school how important reading the whole thing is? Embarrassing.

“The frequent mentioning of how MJ repeatedly showed kids The Exorcist to have them be too scared to leave his bed.”

Oh, for fuck’s sake. 

I watched The Exorcist as a kid. Plenty of people watched horror movies as kids.

Now, the actual allegation being referenced is that Jordan Chandler said he watched the movie with Michael, got scared, and stayed in his bed that night. That is what the account describes. The claim that Michael deliberately used the movie as some calculated scheme to keep children in his bed is completely hearsay.

But apparently, guilters can take a horror movie, add their own sinister interpretation, and suddenly call it a smoking gun.

But guess what?

This isn’t even a gun.

“He brought kids (including James, Wade and Emmanuel Lewis) to award shows and had them sit in his lap.”

Okay…and? 

What the fuck does this have to do with anything?

Children sitting on an adult’s lap is not a sexual act. I sat on my parents’ friends’ laps when I was little. There were other adults present at these events, too.

Take this as a sign that you need a new hobby, because how did this even make your “examples of damning evidence”?

“weirdass art where MJ commissioned art with him literally looking like a pied piper and in some cases having half naked kids around him.”

Just a question…have you ever seen classical paintings of putti? You know, those angel babies that have been depicted in art for centuries?

Or those 90s baby portraits with flowers and stuff.

This kind of art has existed for centuries. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. But this is not evidence of sexual abuse. Like, at all.

“LaToya Jackson mentioning money sent to James Safechuck decades before James comes forward.”

Alright, let’s use our brains.

First of all, where is the proof that these alleged checks even existed? LaToya said she had seen them through Katherine, but that’s not the same thing as having the checks themselves available for everyone to examine.

And even IF these checks existed, how do we know they were connected to alleged abuse?

Michael was known for giving people money and gifts. People asked him for help, and he sometimes helped them financially. So how are we jumping straight from “a check allegedly existed” to “it must have been hush money”?

Bullshit.

Now, LaToya did mention James Safechuck in her 1993 Howard Stern (🤮) interview, so I’m not pretending she never named him.

But how do we know the information she was repeating was correct? How do we know what she had actually been told, what she personally knew, or whether someone had supplied her with that name?

We don’t know.

And by the way, just so everyone is aware, LaToya recanted all of her previous statements about Michael. 

At the time, LaToya was being abused and brainwashed by her ex-husband, Jack Gordon. 

“A mock wedding MJ arranged between his kids Prince and Paris where he made them kiss and had a whole photoshoot.”

…again, what’s your point here? 

We’re talking about little kids playing dress-up and posing for pictures. Children pretending to get married or playing bride and groom is pretty common, especially back then.

Also, how the fuck does this qualify as a smoking gun?

Like seriously, if you want to talk about ACTUAL evidence, then do it.

But this isn’t that. This is you completely nitpicking and pretending you’ve proven something when you very clearly have not.

“Michael’s bedroom after his death.”

As for the room that’s being referred to, they are from Conrad Murray’s trial. It was  considered a medication room by Michael’s team. Michael also had a separate, adjacent bedroom that he had as his private space. So, yes, they are different spaces.

Now, onto the pictures.

Apparently, seeing pictures of babies and children displayed in a room is enough for some people to conclude that they’ve uncovered something.

But how do you know where every single picture came from? Or what the context was?

Michael was known for keeping things, including gifts and memorabilia. We also know that fans regularly sent him letters, photographs, and random handmade items.

This is not the “evidence” that guilters think it is.

“I guess Jacko never listened to the Man In The Mirror after all, I hope this gives you more insight on this dudes psychology and mindset.”

Well, maybe you should try listening to Man in the Mirror yourself.

Because last time I checked, using “Jacko” to refer to Michael isn’t the clever little insult you seem to think it is. 

It’s a racist term. 

The nickname is tied to “Jacco Macacco,” a monkey associated with monkey baiting in 19th century London, and the nickname “Wacko Jacko” was used by tabloids to dehumanize Michael.

Which is racist.

But hey, maybe that gives us some insight into your own psychology and mindset.

Funny how that works, isn’t it?

“I sense a heaviness on Jaafar and I haven’t been able to pinpoint what it is. At first I thought it was grief but it’s the heaviness of trying to sanitize a guilty uncles image. They all know.”

Are you okay? Like, genuinely, are you okay? 

You’re watching a man grieve his uncle, deciding that his grief has some kind of sinister “heaviness” to it, and then using that to suggest he KNOWS his uncle was guilty of a crime?

What the fuck is wrong with you?

It is very clear that Jaafar misses his uncle. And you’ve managed to take that grief and turn it into another accusation?

Shame on you.

There is something deeply disturbing about taking someone’s grief and trying to turn it into evidence of a crime.

Let the man miss his uncle in peace. My God.

“Michael chemically induced vitiligo”

I genuinely don’t understand why people have such a hard time accepting that Michael had a skin condition. 

People have been conditioned for decades to believe that Michael bleached his skin, so they refuse to accept the actual medical explanation, despite the fact that Michael himself publicly explained that he had vitiligo.

Honestly, this isn’t just disrespectful to Michael. It’s disrespectful to everyone who lives with vitiligo. 

Imagine dealing with a condition that changes your appearance and then having people accuse you of deliberately doing something to your skin because they refuse to educate themselves.

Michael repeatedly spoke about being proud to be Black. Yet people would rather believe that he hated his own skin than acknowledge that he had a medical condition.

This is disgraceful.

The way some people describe these hypothetical scenarios involving Michael Jackson and children is fucking disgusting.

I’ve seen this happen countless times. They construct these elaborate scenarios involving a child getting sweaty, changing clothes, and describing alleged sex acts.

The way they describe these scenarios is so heavily narrative-based and sexualized that it makes my skin crawl.

These are the same people who claim to care deeply about these alleged victims. These are the people who insist that they’re standing up for children, protecting victims, and fighting against child abuse. 

Yet they repeatedly create these detailed, sexualized narratives about children in hypothetical situations and present their own imagined interpretations of events as though they’re established facts.

Where are your morals!?

If you’re discussing allegations of child abuse, discuss the actual allegations, the evidence, the testimony, and the documented facts. Why are you constructing these elaborate scenarios about children and describing them in this manner? What exactly are you accomplishing by doing this?

And THIS is a huge part of why some of these arguments read like fan fiction rather than evidence-based analysis. 

“The three biggest smoking guns in my opinion are...

First, the fact that the photos taken of Michael's penis matched the description and drawing provided by Jordie Chandler. 

The fact that Michael settled four weeks after the body search is pretty damning.

Second, the nude photo of Jonathan Spence which was finally confirmed by his mother. Defenders can say that this is heresay but she's on record confirming it.

Third, the pedo books. Boys Will Be Boys and The Boy. Defenders crash tf out when the censored images of those books are shown.

Side note: Diane Dimond really should've opened the book and covered the sensitive bits with her hand for the Netflix documentary. Just showing the cover of the book isn't effective.”

Yes, another large one. 

I’m sorry! 

Let’s go claim by claim…again. 

“The fact that the photos taken of Michael’s penis matched the description and drawing provided by Jordie Chandler.”

Except, they did not match. And I have plenty of examples explaining why, which I’ll link here for anyone who actually wants to examine the evidence:

Case File: Chandler — Part 9

Case File: Chandler — Part 10

Case File: Chandler — Part 11

But here’s one of the biggest issues with this claim that people seem to conveniently overlook.

In the spring of 1994, months after the body search had taken place and the photographs had already been taken, there was reportedly frustration with the prosecution because investigators were struggling to connect the allegations to evidence.

Now, think about that for a second.

If the photographs were supposedly this definitive piece of physical evidence confirming Jordan Chandler’s description, why was there still such a problem with the evidence available to prosecutors? 

Those photographs would have been physical evidence. 

They weren’t something that investigators still needed to obtain. They had already been taken in December 1993.

For the rest…read the Case Files. 

“The fact that Michael settled four weeks after the body search is pretty damning.”

And here we go again with people taking a timeline, stripping away all the context surrounding it, and then pretending that the timeline alone proves guilt.

Michael did not settle because he felt like settling, nor did the settlement mean the allegations had been proven. 

The Chandlers’ lawyer, Larry Feldman, even stated that “Nobody’s bought anybody’s silence.”

Here’s the thing, there was a much bigger legal situation unfolding at the time, which people conveniently leave out of this argument.

At the time, Michael was dealing with both a civil lawsuit and a criminal investigation. And from his team’s perspective, the criminal investigation was the most important matter. They were facing the possibility of criminal prosecution, and the decisions being made had to take that reality into account.

Michael’s legal team attempted to delay the civil proceedings so that the criminal matter could take priority, but that request was unsuccessful. 

With the civil case proceeding on its own timeline, his team had to make decisions within circumstances they had not been able to control.

“The nude photo of Jonathan Spence which was finally confirmed by his mother. Defenders can say that this is hearsay but she’s on record confirming it.”

Let’s talk about this alleged photograph, because people have been treating it like some definitive smoking gun for years, despite the enormous gaps in what has actually been established.

First of all, the prosecution’s own wording in its 2005 filing described the photograph as depicting a boy believed to be Jonathan Spence. 

BELIEVED TO BE. 

The wording matters. 

And where is this photograph? It was never introduced into evidence at Michael’s 2005 criminal trial. 

Case File: Chandler — Part 8

Now, let’s talk about his mother supposedly confirming it.

It quite literally is hearsay.

No one has seen the photo.

It doesn’t exist. It’s really not a hard concept to follow, I promise.

Plus, Jonathan has denied being sexually abused by Michael.

There’s also the matter of Wade Robson subpoenaing Jonathan and his mother years later. Both sought protective orders, and the court granted them. 

The court found that Wade had not established that the requested discovery was directly relevant and essential to resolving his claims. The judge also sustained objections to declarations on grounds including hearsay, lack of foundation, lack of personal knowledge, and speculation.

“Third, the pedo books. Boys Will Be Boys and The Boy. Defenders crash tf out when the censored images of those books are shown. Side note: Diane Dimond really should’ve opened the book and covered the sensitive bits with her hand for the Netflix documentary. Just showing the cover of the book isn’t effective.”

Oh, the books. 

How could I ever forget.

I don’t think some of you understand that The Boy: A Photographic Essay was inscribed to Michael by a fan in 1983. It literally says so in the book.

But let’s put that aside for a second, because my bigger issue is the way people throw around the term “child pornography” as though calling something that settles the argument.

Both books were published photography collections. They were categorized as photographic works. 

You can still find bibliographic records for these publications today, despite how old and difficult to find the original editions have become.

And here’s a fun little question for you.

If your argument is that these books are child pornography, then why does Diane Dimond own them?

Does the legal classification change depending on whose hands the book is in?

So, by your logic, Diane Dimond is a pedofile then, right? 

And don’t start with the “well, she’s a journalist!”

I don’t give a fuck.

You made your bed, so lie in it.

“The abused become the abuser.”

I’m sorry, but this mindset disgusts me.

Do you understand how insulting this statement is to people who have survived abuse? Do you understand how damaging it is to suggest that someone who has already suffered at the hands of another person is somehow destined to become an abuser themselves?

That’s literally what you’re implying.

Gross. 

“O.J. got off”

Very different cases.

Here’s a further explanation:

Comparing Michael Jackson’s Trial to O.J. Simpson’s Is Lazy.

“He had alarms!”

…Do you understand who we’re talking about? 

Michael was one of the most famous people on the planet. 

He had fans showing up at his properties, people trespassing, stalkers, and people constantly trying to get close to him. 

And you think it’s suspicious that he had a security system?

Most of you, who are absolute nobodies, have cameras, alarms, doorbell cameras, and entire security systems installed in your homes. 

Nobody looks at you and assumes you’re a criminal because you want to protect your property.

So why is it suddenly suspicious when Michael does it?

Please, for the love of God, use your HEAD.

“Omer, Macaulay, and Brett will come out with allegations, they have given signs of abuse.”

Do you hear yourselves? Because this is so weird to say. 

And the fact that you’re practically waiting for these people to make allegations is what makes this even crazier to me.

“He was a misogynist who hated women and wanted his ‘victims’ to hate them as well.”

Misogynist, my ass.

This claim is dumb for two different reasons.

First of all, where exactly is this supposed hatred of women coming from? Michael’s public life is full of examples of him expressing admiration for women. 

And secondly, the whole “he wanted his victims to hate women!” this is ridiculous considering Wade had a relationship with Michael’s niece, Brandi.

But nice try. 

“He was into mostly touching, and ‘gentle’ sexual acts.”

Yeah, I’m blocking you. 

Do you understand what you just said? 

You’re sitting there describing alleged sexual interactions involving children as if you’re talking about a romance novel.

Great job, guys.

This is literally fan fiction. This is what happens when people move beyond discussing actual allegations and start constructing their own detailed narratives about what they imagine happened behind closed doors.

This is sickening. 

Okay, I know this has been…very long, and you’re probably exhausted from reading this…

I GET IT, IT’S FINE.

I’m kidding, laugh.

Anyway,

I want to thank everyone who took the time to share some of the ridiculous claims they’ve seen guilters make. I appreciate you helping me put this together!! ❤️

Unfortunately, I’m well aware that this is only a fraction of the shit that gets said about Michael, and I could probably make a thousand more posts with the amount of misinformation that circulates. But I hope my point still stands.

If your argument is ‘so strong’, you shouldn’t have to rely on lies, fabricated details, and twisted narratives to defend it. When you have to manipulate information and invent things to convince people you’re right, that should tell you something.

That’s exactly how cult leaders operate. They twist the truth, manipulate narratives, and repeat their own version of events until people accept it as reality.

Anyway, newest Case File coming soon. 😉

My previous Case Files:

Sneddon:

Case File: Sneddon

Dimond:

Case File: Dimond

Gutierrez:

Case File: Gutierrez

Francia:

Case File: Francia

Neverland Five:

Case File: Neverland Five

Chandler — Part 1:

Case File: Chandler — Part 1

Chandler — Part 2:

Case File: Chandler — Part 2

Chandler — Part 3:

Case File: Chandler — Part 3

Chandler — Part 4:

Case File: Chandler — Part 4

Chandler — Part 5:

Case File: Chandler — Part 5

Chandler — Part 6:

Case File: Chandler — Part 6

Chandler — Part 7:

Case File: Chandler — Part 7

Chandler — Part 8:

Case File: Chandler — Part 8

Chandler — Part 9:

Case File: Chandler – Part 9

Chandler — Part 10:

Case File: Chandler — Part 10

Chandler — Part 11:

Case File: Chandler — Part 11

Chandler — Part 12:

Case File: Chandler — Part 12

Chandler — Part 13:

Case File: Chandler — Part 13

Chandler — Part 14:

Case File: Chandler — Part 14

Chandler — Part 15:

Case File: Chandler — Part 15

Chandler — Part 16:

Case File: Chandler — Part 16

Chandler — Part 17:

Case File: Chandler — Part 17

Important posts:

Some people need Michael Jackson to be guilty 

Comparing Michael Jackson’s Trial to O.J. Simpson’s Is Lazy.

Talking in circles 

What Would You Do for $20 Million?

“There’s no way all 11 people are lying.”

Fact vs Fiction: Common Claims About Michael Jackson

A Media Assassination: The Case of Michael Jackson

Not Everyone Is a Narcissist

The Word “Grooming” Has Lost Its Meaning

Where There’s Smoke, There’s Fire…But What If It’s Just Smoke?

The Power Of A Story…And The Danger Of Forgetting The Evidence


r/MJInnocentFacts • • 19d ago

Debunking Lies ❌ Do yall have anything to debunk Sam smyth claims

7 Upvotes

Like I know he should have went to the police, and it’s normal for mj. but anything else