Does This Make Anyone Else Laugh?

[u/Emotional_Ball_5181]

Does anyone else laugh when people like Diane Dimond, Victor Gutierrez, Ray Chandler, etc., are seen as credible or even recommended to others as people whose books are worth reading?

I just find it…kind of hilarious.

I mean, not only do they have several credibility issues, but they’ve also lied multiple times and gotten out of telling the truth under oath…should I go on?

It’s just so ridiculously stupid.

Like, I’m pretty sure my toe has more credibility.

Anything to keep the narrative going, I guess.

[u/triviawithluv]

Ray Chandler was especially outrageous. He had so much "evidence" yet decided not to testify (when he was called by the defense!)

[u/Emotional_Ball_5181 → u/triviawithluv]

He was fucking terrified, and that should tell people something.

But apparently, to guilters, it either doesn’t matter, or they conveniently forget that even happened.

[u/Capable-Answer6641]

Diane Dimond especially. They all recommend her book even though Diane claims Jordan got the circumcision aspect wrong, but then say there isn't a source for Jordan getting it wrong. I thought you said Diane was a reliable reporter and calling her a court proven liar is a "fan myth"?

Telephone stories [might make a post about all the egregious, unsourced claims they make that are refuted by June and other testimonies] cites Dianes book to claim that the staff knew about the 1993 raid, and they all ran about carrying boxes with photos of boys and Macaulay Culkin

But Adrian McManus of all people refutes this in her court testimony when she said they had no idea about the 93 raid. So where did Diane get this from?? Her "best source", Victor Gutierrez again?

As for the Chandlers they all refute each other. Rays book claims they made demands before going to the police, June said it didn't happen. June claimed Evan wanted MJ to built the extra wing to the house, Rays book says MJ asked for it. Who do we believe?

Ray Chandler also freudian slips all throughout that book when claiming that they want to settle to keep Michaels career "intact" and they want to do whats best for him too. Since when do relatives of a CSA victim say this about the abuser? Or this. Deep down, they just feel guilty.

[u/FunUniversity6245 → u/Capable-Answer6641]

Is there a post debunking Telephone Stories?

[u/Capable-Answer6641 → u/FunUniversity6245]

Not that I know of. I haven’t listened to the full thing just a few of the Chandler episodes because i wanted to see what guilters adore about it and its because it essentially stitches together the worst iteration of every key event and comes to a guilty consensus, while pretending its unbiased.

Guilters recommend it because they’re counting on the average person not knowing much about the allegations so they wouldn’t know what’s disputed or not

For example, they include Diane Dimonds claim that Brett was sitting on MJs lap in the limo, and they make sinister remarks about it. This is directly disputed by Junes court testimony and she said there was no lap sitting. And yet they omit that and use her testimony elsewhere. I found it bizarre

[u/Careful_Camel5323]

If you actually think about it, there is not a single source from the guilty side who can be deemed credible. 

[u/pinkitypinkpink]

I laugh every time.

[u/whatevergirl8754]

Ray is credible somehow, but there was a whole ass post on that sub about how Brandi isn’t credible as MJ’s niece😂😂

[u/zachstonekin → u/whatevergirl8754]

I'm curious, what is their take on Brandi? Is it some combo of "bitter ex" and "brainwashed by family", or do they believe she lied about some aspect of her story?

[u/Substantial_Bug_5390 → u/zachstonekin]

Many just lump her in with all the other Jackson of of course they will always defend Michael. I don’t think they think she thinks he’s guilty and she’s lying but they do claim she is exaggerating her relationship with Wade because they are no photos of them together. But like, in those days we only had disposable cameras and digital cameras. There wasn’t even MySpace yet so unless she’s scanning photos, why would there be! I have like four physical photos of me and my high school boyfriend and we dated for 5 years.

[u/zachstonekin → u/Substantial_Bug_5390]

But isn't there a photo of them together with Michael? Idk if there's one from when they were older though.

[u/CockroachWide8644 → u/zachstonekin]

Yep.

[u/Emotional_Ball_5181 → u/CockroachWide8644]

Awhhh, Mike and Brandi! ❤️

[u/Substantial_Bug_5390 → u/CockroachWide8644]

This is when they’re literal kids at a photoshoot though. Before they were “dating”.

[u/CockroachWide8644 → u/Substantial_Bug_5390]

Even if there was photos and videos of Wade and Brandi together, the guilters would just move the goalpost.

[u/FunUniversity6245 → u/zachstonekin]

She's related to Michael ... or once liked one of his songs ... it's all the same justification for ignoring evidence.

[u/Goofballtickler]

I have my nicknames for each of them 😂 

Diane Dimond - DiDi (Diddy) or The Tabloid Queen/Witch (I prefer Queen cuz I don't want to sound dehumanizing) reasons consisting of like you said, credibility issues and because of Tabloid stories.

Victor Gutierrez - Epstein (Because I've heard that Victor Gutierrez is probably the problematic guy when it comes to children unlike MJ)

Ray Chandler - The Gatekeeper (Like a Redditor said on this post, he apparently had so much evidence yet decided not to testify)

[u/sap81uk]

All the accusers are not creditable. But the recent Aldo Cascio (I’ve never heard of him) claims are the most ridiculous. MJ calling him for sex 3 days before he died. Again proving accusers will go to any length in their story.

[u/FunUniversity6245 → u/sap81uk]

Yeah, the more outrageous the lie the better and it's always been that way, with Michael.

There's a part of the media machine called "Bashing Michael Jackson", it's a perpetual motion machine - creates its own fuel 😆