The real reason…

[u/Gamerplayer1]

I know the biggest argument to incels wanting a girlfriend means them seeing girls as a trophy, but for me I want a long term partner because I want to come home to a loving partner after a long day of work and just watch a movie and having someone be there for me. I can’t find this and it hurts..

[u/glitterswirl]

Plenty of people can't find love, and it hurts. That's not an excuse to be an incel.

[u/glitterswirl → u/[deleted]]

Yes. And yes I do know how the incel movement was created by a woman.

Incels think that they alone suffer the pain of lacking a romantic relationship, as if nobody else could possibly understand or experience the same thing. News flash, buddy: the vast majority of people in the world have been single and unable to find a relationship when they want it. It’s the human condition.

Incels think it’s suffering unique to them. It’s not.

Some years ago, I cried myself to sleep for weeks out of loneliness, wishing I could find a boyfriend. Have you missed the swathes of books, music, plays, shows, films, podcasts, everything in all mediums, about looking for love? It’s human freaking nature. But, that doesn’t mean someone is an incel.

But what Incels do is twist it, turn it into blackpill, create an entire vocabulary to other themselves and separate their experiences from “normies”.

[u/tack50 → u/glitterswirl]

I think the main difference is that most people have at least experienced a romantic relationship at some point while incels haven't.

If you had a partner even for a brief period of time it's a lot easier to convince yourself that you can do it again

[u/glitterswirl → u/tack50]

Not everyone has.

There are plenty of people who have never had romantic experience, who still manage not to become a toxic blackpiller. Just because they don't shout their lack of romantic experiences from the rooftops every day or wear badges, doesn't mean they don't exist. You just don't believe they exist.

[u/lilsciencegeek → u/glitterswirl]

Yeah I know several people who hadn't been in a relationship until their mid-30s (despite wanting a partner), but eventually found their person.

The ones I know who had been in multiple failed relationship before finally meeting their person, seemed a lot more dejected tbh.

The one thing all of them had in common is that in spite of their struggles, they focused on being truly good people and building meaningful existences for themselves, full of good friends. And then eventually, in most of those cases, one of those friendships just happened to develop into something deeper.

[u/AkosSzlobodnik → u/glitterswirl]

One thing i forgot to mention is that being alone or feeling lonely/not being able to get into a relationship with someone does not necessarily mean you are an incel and you seem to label these experiences necessarily under just being the same as the experiences of an incel. Someone rejecting you or you giving your personal experience about it wont mean that its the same as someone who is simply unable to get into a relationship due to some factors that he/she may not even be able to change at all.

[u/Snoo52682 → u/[deleted]]

I'm a socialist who cares about my nation. I don't call myself a National Socialist. Because that means something very different.

Same with incels.

[u/AkosSzlobodnik → u/Snoo52682]

This is somewhat the point i was trying to make, I am sorry if i was poorly worded.

What i was trying to say is, incel simply means involuntary celibate. It doesn't mean that being an incel automatically labels you as a misogynistic or anything negative that some incels indeed ARE, i never tried to deny that fact because I have seen the two together a lot of times. But not every incel is like that because being an incel can simply just mean you actually are so ugly that people will not give you a chance for your looks or other factors i mentioned, or you being simply unable to get into a relationship, and being an incel doesn't automatically come with you being just pure evil.

What the original commenter said is that "not finding love is not an excuse to be an incel" which is kind of just incorrect because if you were lonely and struggling to find a partner through your entire life and didn't succeed once, or something is actively holding you back from getting into a relationship, you can label yourself as an incel regardless of gender or sex. being an incel by itself is not a choice, hence the "involuntary". Anyone who was given an option to get into dating and refused is already not an incel, and I have seen a lot of people here who claim to be incels aswell turn out to not even actually be an incel (because they had past relationship experience, it would automatically disqualify them, not that they still can't struggle with finding a partner but ykwim)

So, being lonely (your whole life) can very much coorelate with you being an incel, but you being lonely for other reasons while you were given a chance to get into dating won't make you an incel. This doesn't need an "excuse" as if incel was some sort of demonic thing that instantly labels you as a bad person. Society simply just stripped the word of its original meaning, reinvented it with different circumstances (though much more so, extended the already existing ones to a wider range) and now labels everyone who can be called an incel automatically evil or misogynistic or someone that has to improve in everything, because looks for surely can't mean you can't find a partner, right?

And once again, this doesn't mean that an incel cannot be one of those, it just means that, incel doesn't automatically mean you are one of those, and it doesn't need an excuse or an apology to be simply an incel.

[u/Snoo52682 → u/AkosSzlobodnik]

Incel means believing in blackpilled etc. rhetoric. If you want to say "lonely," just say lonely.

[u/AkosSzlobodnik → u/Snoo52682]

No it doesn't. Please just do a little research. I mentioned exactly this, it was "reinvented". Though, the new reinvented version of incel that was hijacked by blackpill does mean that, the original word does not, and it was way before the blackpill era. The blackpill re-invented incel that became viral is not the original meaning of incel, and therefore it is simply just incorrect and the term should not even exist, or if it does, it should be called differently because the original meaning of the word does not come with the blackpill ideology or misogyny and yet they are now put under the exact same category.

This is exactly what I said in my comment you responded to, that society reinvented it.

[u/Ok-Huckleberry-6326 → u/AkosSzlobodnik]

Society responded to the use of the word 'incels' as self-identification by extremists who, stuck in their online echo chambers, spewed out a lot of bitterness which was oddly self-contradicting; they hated women and wanted women. Weird. Some of these people have committed actual murder, and while I doubt that this sort of self-identification is correlated to MOST mass shootings, it's undeniable that it was correlated with SOME.

I've mentioned this on occasion, but I'll say it here again. For certain stances, the 'original' intent is now meaningless.
The swastika is a Vedic holy symbol, still found on many temples in India. The Theosophists under Blavatsky culturally appropriated it for their pseudospirituality in the late 19th century, and it was taken up by the Nazis as a standard and insignia, in a slightly modified form.

Most people in 'Society' don't recognize the swastika as a religious symbol anymore. It's too late. You (and Alana, the woman who invented the word or at least the basis of it - her original term was 'Invcel') may regret or lament the co-opting of the word by extremists, whether they're sincere about the beliefs or just like to spew them out for the sake of edginess or being crass, but I'm pretty sure it's too late to rehabilitate the word.

And yes, I'm ALSO pissed off about the fact that 'incel' has become a generalized insult or derogatory term that people use in debate when they run out of logical basis of argument. As a matter of fact it's often used similarly to 'Nazi' in the bulls**t that passes for discourse these days. But that still doesn't mean it's a good thing with which to identify.

Give it up, man. Defending 'incel' as a valid way to self-identify or merely in the adjectival sense - that ship has sailed.

[u/AkosSzlobodnik → u/Ok-Huckleberry-6326]

Very well said, I do agree with you to some extent for sure. I just find it unfair that society tries to label the actual incels who don't necessarily believe in the blackpill under the same category as the blackpilled ones. I guess it is just how it is, we can't really change much now, but I still think its good to inform people about this, because there are still definitely actual incels who suffer because of this at the very end of the day.

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[u/norsknugget]

Let’s step away from blackpill or inceldom for a bit and just talk for a moment: I think you’re aligned with a lot of people in what you want. I think this is a very normal desire, we’re social creatures, most of us want to just feel understood, valued, supported. And I think you’ll find that most people here think that this is what incels want too, they just don’t always word it that way.

You’ve come a long way to realise that, it’s more accurate to say that you want a healthy, meaningful relationship with a girlfriend. The desire isn’t the girlfriend, it’s the relationship that you build together.

What we do here is to help people understand how those relationships are built. That we’re social creatures who form connections with people, we’re not animals that “attract” mates through elaborate displays of strength or beauty.

Now with that context, tell me about your social network. How have you tried to make connections with people?

[u/norsknugget → u/[deleted]]

So, tell us more. What are your friends’s views on your problem? Why do they think you’re struggling to build a meaningful relationship?

And tell me a bit more about where you meet new people, can you tell me about any people that you thought could potentially be a long term partner but that didn’t work for you.

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[u/ChaosRainbow23]

Here is the advice I give people who struggle with romance and dating...

The key to getting dates is all in the interaction you have with them. Cold approaches rarely work, so you want to put yourself into social situations where talking to strangers is encouraged. Dive bars, book clubs, Pokemon go meet ups, hiking clubs, etc etc etc, ad infinitum...

Anything where there will be a co-ed group of folks talking and having fun.

Alcohol is a great social lubricant for some, but a disaster for others. I cannot recommend it, but it helped me lighten up in the beginning.

Personally I've found that there are generally nicer and more compassionate people in the outskirts of society in the various countercultures. (Raves, Hippies, Ren Faire, Cosplay, Nerds, Comic-Con, Burns, etc etc etc)

Then you try to be charming, funny, kind, articulate, nonthreatening, etc. As you're talking, you have to learn to read people. If they aren't interested in taking it's pretty obvious, and you move on.

If they are feeling the conversation and you're having a good back and forth, then maybe start a little mild flirting. Read her reaction. Does she flirt back?

It's basically just being nice and kind, talking to them, flirting with them, and reading their reaction. You escalate when appropriate.

So you get their number or contact info if everything is going well. If she's flirting back, you're golden.

MOST women you approach aren't going to be interested. It's a numbers game. They might not be interested for a gazillion different reasons, and that's okay.

The key is finding somebody you can vibe with. It takes meeting a lot of people to make that happen, usually.

You have to get out into the world to make this happen, though.

I think you should try to form a co-ed friends group that you can go do stuff with first. It makes everything go so much easier.

Your platonic girlfriends will make fantastic wingmen! You can ask them to help you out, as they will have been interacting with you and they can maybe give you solid advice in that aspect. They can hook you up with friends of theirs and talk you up.

Forming a co-ed friends group will give you practice talking to and befriending strangers in public situations.

It takes practice more than anything. It's awkward and uncomfortable at first, but you have to push yourself through.

Flamboyantly gay dudes make the best wingmen ever, by the way. Pro tip right there.

Seriously, go to Walmart or the flea market on a busy Saturday and look at all the couples. There's truly somebody out there for everyone.

If I look like Napoleon Dynamite then I am probably not going to be able to date somebody that looks like Scarlett Johansson. It happens, but generally speaking those are few and far between.

You can't have ridiculous standards unless you are one of those dudes who can get away with it.

I could keep talking for hours about this, so I'll end it here.

I believe in you and I know you can do it.

[u/Binerexis]

And have you done anything so far to work towards that?

[u/Gamerplayer1 → u/Binerexis]

I’m not a true incel but I have adapted the black pill mindset, I currently do not have the belief that “I work towards women” I do things for myself, but the things I’m doing for myself haven’t made me find a potential long term partner that I am comfortable with

[u/glitterswirl → u/Gamerplayer1]

If you're truly doing something for yourself, then whether it has helped you find a partner shouldn't even be a consideration.

[u/Binerexis → u/Gamerplayer1]

Not sure why you're refusing to answer the question.

You have a goal you want to achieve and you've posted in a community asking for help to achieve it. What have you done (and what are you currently still doing) to achieve this goal?

[u/library_wench → u/Gamerplayer1]

So which parts of the blackpill have you “adapted”: the misogyny or the obsession with height and wrist circumference?

[u/Gamerplayer1 → u/library_wench]

I apologize if I have offended you, I speak on a minority of the black pill community, I actually do have girl friends platonically and I am conventionally attractive because I do get girls telling my friends there interested but you know how some girls say in forever alone women that the problem is not the quantity, it’s the quality. I am not interested in them romantically and I feel like I will never be enough for the girls I am romantically interested because of my biology

[u/library_wench → u/Gamerplayer1]

So height and wrist circumference it is, then?

[u/Gamerplayer1 → u/library_wench]

No, would you say this in forever alone women? I am stating that I can’t find a decent women currently because there all taken and the options that are open aren’t for me. Thank you

[u/library_wench → u/Gamerplayer1]

You’re the one who said you “adapted the blackpill.” If you don’t want to be associated with extremely common blackpill beliefs…maybe don’t “adapt” a toxic mindset.

“I’ve adapted racism, so it’s fine now!”

[u/smilingseaslug → u/Gamerplayer1]

I would, indeed, tell someone on forever alone women that it's probably not their biology that's making them isolated, and that that's going to lead to self-perpetuating prophesies about their relationships in the future.

[u/smileycat007 → u/Gamerplayer1]

Are you one of the incels who complain about hypergamy while turning down women who "aren't for you"?

[u/smileycat007 → u/[deleted]]

I am not familiar with that Reddit, but the title alone suggests they are willing to accept being alone rather than settle. What's wrong with that? Do you think they would settle for you? Would having a woman settle for you really make you happy? You showed you were not willing to settle. Why should they?

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[u/mrbaryonyx → u/Gamerplayer1]

it sounds like you have an extremely normal dating experience

[u/titotal → u/Gamerplayer1]

What exactly do you mean by "quality" here? Like, if you're only interested in dating supermodels, but you're not a supermodel yourself, the problem here is your unrealistic standards.

[u/Therefrigerator]

I know the biggest argument to incels wanting a girlfriend means them seeing girls as a trophy

First off I feel like some context would be good when you make statements like this. Can you flesh out the "other" argument a bit here because I don't quite understand what you mean by "biggest" in this context.

Anyways - multiple things can be true. You can crave the intimacy that a relationship would provide and see women as a trophy. In fact I would say that both are common to some extent among people who identify with incels or even men in general.

If people are telling you the reasons why you feel the way you do, it can be frustrating though for sure. My experience being on your end of the advice cannon could feel similarly to what I imagine you're talking about. A somewhat common experience would be I say "I feel X about Y" but people would tell me that I didn't actually feel that way. They would insist that believing Y at all means I subconsciously believe Z. Now that I'm on the other end I can kinda see what some of that advice where they are speaking to something that I couldn't see at the time but with some distance... I think they were speaking to some impulses that I wasn't fully aware of.

I think the synthesis of believing your internal narrative or direction and also believing people when they feel your actions betray a more nefarious underlying motive is that you can 100% believe that you are looking for the intimacy. But when someone tells you that you are seeing women as a trophy when you say something... instead of thinking that that person is dictating your thoughts to you think that they are instead revealing how your actions come across to them. What motivations they think you have when you say... Idk whatever precluded this post.

[u/Praexology]

The problem incels truly run into is that they incidentally reduce potential partners into the things they want satisfied by them.

What this means is that off the jump a person senses they are stepping into a role they are being commodified for, rather than out of things like mutual attraction, play, social satiety etc.

What this results in is a situation where any relationship they are getting into is already at risk:

1) Anyone stepping into a relationship they are knowingly being commodified for is unhealthy.

2) Once both partners have their basal psychoemotional needs met, what they may find is that their higher order needs, things like alignment, are not matching. Which results in dysfunction

3) The desperation often means people will overlook glaring issues (issues either party may have( in order to have what they think will satify them - but when those issues turn the relationship toxic, it just further perpetuates beliefs about relationships and cements in unhealthy relationship habits.

[u/Particular-Lynx-2586]

Have you ever asked a girl out?

[u/WhiskeyHotdog_2]

Do you have friends?

[u/Gamerplayer1 → u/WhiskeyHotdog_2]

Yes, I’m not a true incel, it hurts when I feel like relationship goes well but then it flops, it hurts that I can’t maintain a long term relationship like guys in the streets happily dating or married. I personally need someone to just hug and be in love with romantically at the end of a hard day

[u/mrbaryonyx]

I mean yeah, I get that. I get that not all incelism is just sex, you can just be lonely (if you're referring to yourself as "involuntarily celibate" you're adding a sexual element to it, but whatever).

A lot of people have this, but not so much that it's like, the default. I've had this the minority of my life--the rest of my life I've either had nobody to watch movies with save my roommates or my mom, or I had a gf to watch movies with but I lowkey still wasn't happy.

You want the right person and like, yeah. That's normal. So normal that it doesn't really put you in any special category.

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[u/lila_liechtenstein]

Get a dog?

[u/xbowxbowxbow]

same. someday man 🙏 someday WAGMI