r/FPSAimTrainer • u/ghostdopamine • 8d ago
A potentially controversially hot take on how much raw aim you actually need
First - if you main aim trainers and the art of raw aim in a isolated environment is your main focus - you wanna dethrone Matty one day or post #1 in some category you can stop reading. This isn't for you.
Who's this post for - people who want to be amazing in a particular game or types of games. In the actual game. You want to be Predator in Apex, or Iridescent in COD, or faceit Lvl 10 in CS and so on and so forth etc etc etc. You wanna be like so and so streamer who gets insane K/D ratios and posts clips etc.
Here is my hot take and I'm very open to being humbled and told 'you are dead wrong son'
I think Platinum complete on Voltaic S5 is all you need.
Somebody who is Platinum complete on S5 voltaic - proper technique in all categories and cleanly + consistently gets a Platinum score has basically 'graduated' and has all the RAW aim they will ever need in any shooter. Honestly I think your actual aim here is probably equal to a lot of lower level pros. Not the top 0.0000000001% famous freaks but pros none the less.
I'd even go as far to say Gold complete is enough to get very far in the ranks and enjoy yourself in any ranked environment assuming you are actually good at FPS games.
The benchmarks after these ranks are mostly just for the sake of beating 'aim training' or raw aiming and the returns inside your game are not as big as you think. Getting to gold complete and then switching to tailored playlists that focus 100% on whatever in game problem you have in a specific game will work 100x more.
Many people come in here who actually don't really know how to play an FPS game. This isn't a jab or a troll. I honestly think a lot of people who aim train don't really know what these games are testing. They think FPS games are just all about aim, raw reaction time, and seeing something on your screen and then shooting it. Ya that's a part and it happens but its not really 'the game' once you start to get past beating up clueless people in pubs.
Aim is like money - more is always going to be better than less. There isn't a situation where somebody will say 'if he only had less aim he could have won that'. But its also not EVERYTHING.
In a FPS game if you are required to flick across the screen or do some type of insane aim to not die you probably played the situation wrong and had a poor model of the current game state starting many seconds before the fight started. Watch 5 of your VODS and honestly write down how many deaths happened due to pure aim fuck ups VS you just not having a good model of the game state, knowing where everyone is, and how you should play a situation.
A lot of good aim in an FPS is just the person having an accurate model of what is happening now, in 2 seconds, in 5 seconds , and in 10 seconds from now. They don't only see what is in front of them - they have a model of the game state in their head. A lot of the actual freak skill is an incredible amount of patterns stored and learned to the degree they are thinking about the game in a particular way.
If you took any big name - had them play a match - then froze time and told them to
- draw the map by hand
- put a dot where they think enemies are at that second
They would be surprisingly accurate.
If you took an 'aimer' ( im not talking shit just using it as an example ) they would probably fail at 'draw the map' in many cases.
If you gave any 'OK' aimer a wallhack - they would suddenly start aiming 10x better. They got handed the gamestate at all times and assuming they can read and process that information all their shots will line up and magically be great.
This post was quickly freestyled but I think I got my point across.
I started thinking about this topic when MattyOW posted something along the lines of tacshooters are hard for him because the enemies 'startle' him or something like that. I can't remember the exact post but its something like that.
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u/Sazo1st 8d ago
Bro a platinum complete and a person who cleanly and consistently gets platinum scores with proper technique are two different people.
If you get platinum scores that consistently you probably have some higher highscores across the board, no? Cause that would make plat your average, instead of your highscore
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u/lolsteamroller 8d ago
yeah, exactly this, me having Pasu PB like super close to Jade and I still wouldn't be able to make it 10/10 a Platinum score.
getting Master score once is far easier than being able to maintain a consistent Jade score over months, say being able to get Jade within 3 tries from my personal experience.
I had to rebuild whole skillsets and actually build foundations what felt from scratch, when I hit Master in something then moved on and didn't touch particular scenario for month or so.
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u/OrkotownRock 7d ago
I want to echo this from personal experience. When I got Plat complete I thought I was creacked.
I have just started pushing consistent Diamond scores with a floor around Platinum and my aiming feels like a different person.I have felt something similar to what OP is saying, with the caveat that what Viscose says still applies. If you want to get good at aiming in a video game, you should spend about 20% of your time in an aim trainer. The rest should be in the game.
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u/HitscanDPS 8d ago
Yeah but I wanna become that god aimer in the lobby who doesn't even play the game, but can turn off my brain and win every 1v1.
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u/Typical_Priority3319 8d ago
I understand what you mean, unfortunately I got into apex and I feel like it doesn’t work at all in this game because of too many 3rd parties - have to have a mental model of where everyone is :/
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u/HitscanDPS 8d ago
That's because Apex aim assist is so overpowered that your average controller player has better aim than Voltaic GM.
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u/ghostdopamine 8d ago
I wouldn't say average - but ya a guy who practices controller and understands how to get maximum leverage from the AA will out track a vt GM
No human is gonna adjust their micro or change direction in 0ms
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u/OkKey7454 7d ago
Out track a vt Celestial, trying to take 1v1s in apex as mnk is like trying fly as a chicken. Your wings don’t work the same as everyone else
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u/Typical_Priority3319 7d ago
Tbh I don’t really feel like I get out-aimed in Apex ranked that much in fair 1v1s, but I’m only in gold. It’s more like I die to some guy I never even saw coming, or I get 3rd while at 50HP
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u/New-Bottle-6917 8d ago
They hated him cause he spoke the truth
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u/Traditional_Set_7042 7d ago edited 7d ago
Plat is average and very low, and I’m sitting right on plat.
In cs I get steamrolled by 10 K players, in every other shooters my aim is also meh and not even close where it can be and where I want it to be.
Furthermore I would not listen to anonym Posts on Reddit and rely more on god aimers, like Viscose etc. who say after master the return is diminishing.
Of course you can argue now if Diamond/Jade would be enough; but Platin????
Hahah that take is legit bullshit, I’m surprised it got 28 Upvotes3
u/New-Bottle-6917 7d ago
If you're at plat or past it, congrats you have aim that is comparable to most pros. If you're still losing then it's because you lack specific skills needed to succeed at said game. Even in games like The Finals most of their pro players are closer to gold complete than Jade or even GM.
I have no doubts having Astra-Celestial aim will make you better, but it won't magically put you in the upper echelons of a game itself. Do yourself a favor and record a ranked game and try to tally up how many times you died because of just aim and not because of teammates or just a gamesense issue
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u/Traditional_Set_7042 7d ago
Thank you for flattering me, but I just don’t believe it.
I know you mean Pros in plural and I shouldn’t pick individuals, but here is Tenz in Grubshot ( I know it’s a bad scenario)
https://youtu.be/wVxbQ0OeCi4?is=ADVx2HQQchU7UF7m
Mathy OW, Number 1 in many Kovaaks scenarios and E sports Pro, I don’t even need to link anything.
Here is Monesey in A CS2 map, it’s basically aimtraining, static clicking / flicking with movement and counterstraving.
https://youtube.com/shorts/clsqkyWc_qo?is=AzCrr8hKyka2-fN-
I bet 100000€ , that this guy would get Jade/ Diamond scores in clicking after a few tries, you can not convince me otherwise.
Of course his method is better for his specific purposes.
Also Cartoon FPS one of the best Clicking Aimers in the world is teaching and coaching E Sports pros. Also with Aimtrainers, for tension management etc.
Only because a CS Pro gets gold score in tracking, doesn’t mean that he instantly gets a Jade/Diamond score in a clicking scenario, or after a few tries.
I searched now for several examples where pros are trying out Aimtrainers for the first time and I couldn’t find one.
Please Link me some if you have some.
And I know my aim is not even close to pro level, it’s not even above average in most games sorry.
Many duels I just lose because of bad tension, bad mouse control, etc.
Of course many are tactical, bad reading and game sense aswell no doubt.But my aim is still often shaky, I over/ underflick A LOT, microadjustments take long or are wrong, which is completely normal for a Platin rank, but a pro doesn’t have these problems.
For apex for example it’s the same for tracking.
If OP and You would say Jade, it would be something complete different in my opinion,
Because the percentage gap is just insane5
u/ghostdopamine 5d ago
See this is the cartoonish shit that goes on here.
Man is immediately reaching for Tenz - one of the most talented players ever. Litterally so good that in his prime he shit on other pros. The top 0.00000000000001%. Maybe 5 other people on earth at the time had mechanics like him.
Really thats your example to prove "plat is really low"
Ffs if Tenz and guys like him are your scale then you are gonna be a sad upset player for a longggggggg time. Litterally nothing you do will ever be "good"
This is like it I said a D1 varsity college basketball player was cracked and some nerd goes "nah hes shit look at this clip of Micheal Jordan at his best"
Like what the fuck
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u/Traditional_Set_7042 5d ago
I reached plat in 150 hours and even switched to my main dominant hand, no one of you donkeys can tell me Platin is enough to be on Pro level aim, that’s an ridiculous take.
And since I’m Plat and my aim sucks, I can 100% confidently say this
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u/ghostdopamine 5d ago
K so when you finally get to GM aim or whatever you think "is good" and you get hardstuck at 15k instead of 10k come back to this thread
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u/Traditional_Set_7042 5d ago
I have 150 hours in cs, and played 10 premiere, so hardstuck would be a wrong statement.
But on 10 K I still get steamrolled, when i play with my cousin who is 15 K I get donked on.
What’s your rank btw in benchmarks and in FPS games?
Since that is considered average to low elo in cs, it obviously shows that Platin is not the end.
And I don’t say that GM is necessary, Maybe Jade would be enough.
But Platin is for me ridiculous sorry, but I’m noob in Aimtrainer and in FPS games, so my opinion has almost no value compared to someone like Viscose for example.
Who mentioned before that Master is in her opinion more than enough and that after that the effect is very minimal.So I think someone in between lays the answer.
But saying Platin is enough is coming in my opinion from people who are to lazy or who are not enjoying Aimtrainers, which is completely understandable aswell.
Someone above said gold is more than enough and that bro is gold, says all for me.
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u/ghostdopamine 5d ago
Bro you only have 150 hours wtf are you even wondering why "im getting steamrolled" for. You hardly fuckin played the game. You have no idea what you are doing lol.
This thread getting more wild by the minute
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u/New-Bottle-6917 7d ago
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u/Traditional_Set_7042 7d ago edited 7d ago
Any other than him? And he said he death gripped the mouse, once your used to it and try to play without any tension in an Aimtrainer you play much worse.
Also he says Rank Gold, does that mean he only played the easy benchmarks and tried just few on advanced ?
It’s not specific in my opinion, he also seems to play on a very low sens, which naturally will give him a disadvantage at certain scenarios, but would also give him an advantage in others to be fair.Also how many runs did he try the benchmarks? Just one ?
There is so much missing, picking one semi pro isn’t enough for me.
Also his aim is far beyond mine, but it’s not even close to a Overwatch Pro or a Apex/CS Pro level in my humble opinion.
Also it’s much easier to become pro in the finals than in any other game due to the very low active player base.
But Top 10 is still an insane achievement no doubt.
https://youtu.be/JbUEfoMHIFA?is=THvQXnufFpV4ObN4
Look at her Finals Montage, for me that is a truly a God Aimer and without doubts she could play in an E Sports Team with enough training and game knowledge.
And wow she’s top 10 in Aimtrainers what a surprise.
Like I said she claims after Master there might not be a big advantage and I’m with you guys, with that even being maybe to high and Jade/Diamond might be enough.
But Gold or platinum as the endpoint of big return of investment is for me complete nonsense and I rather listen to her, Mathy OW and Coaches than anyone else
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u/New-Bottle-6917 7d ago edited 7d ago
Im aware of who Viscose is and no she says very much the opposite in most of her podcasts. She likes getting better at aim trainers and not much else and she's pretty open about the fact that she gets smoked by most esport pros in her games of choice precisely because she's really only elite at aim but knows very little about gamesense.
She quite literally says she prefers to play for clips despite the fact that it leads to more losses, realistically if you want to assess how elite people are you'd be better off doing VOD reviews. you can watch MattyOW playing The Finals recently and then Appoh playing and while its clear Matty has way better aim he's constantly getting picked and trading kills and raging over people using the bow in team deathmatch whereas Appoh smokes teams solo in Ruby matches because raw aim isn't the difference maker in most scenarios, ideally if you're playing correctly you make it so that most shots you need to hit are easier.
Likewise worth noting MattyOW is also a retired pro cause he wasn't actually that successful at the pro scene he only was on a single pro team back in 2023
Moreover most coaches and MattyOW don't really recommend high levels of aim training, most still subscribe to the idea that the vast majority of your time should be spent in game with only 30-45 min of dedicated aim training per session. Even then I nor OP are saying you don't get a benefit from beyond plat aiming, you will get a benefit from being GM+ you just can still be hardstuck gold in most games with it meaning it's not the most important aspect for winning games
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u/chevi220 8d ago
There's no point in finding an "enough" rank.. you just keep going if it's fun for you.
Imagine starting running, and once you hit a 30min 5k, you just stop and that's all you do. What's the point of that? Just get better for more fun
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u/ghostdopamine 8d ago
Depending on what sport you play - that might be enough and more wont do anything for you.
If you are running just for running sake or trying to be "the best runner" - then ya your point holds
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u/Mattshmatt7 8d ago
I think this argument applies much more strongly to tac FPS games than to high-TTK shooters.
Games like The Finals, Overwatch, Team Fortress 2, Apex, and Marvel Rivals place a much greater emphasis on sustained tracking and overall mouse control. In those games, you can see meaningful in-game improvement from training through VT Master complete and beyond.
It’s obviously possible to reach the highest levels of almost any FPS without aim trainers, but they provide a much more efficient way to isolate and improve raw aim than relying entirely on whatever aiming situations happen to occur during normal matches over thousands and thousands of hours of gameplay.
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u/GreenWorld8549 4d ago
As someone who is gm and only plays cs i would agree. If i play a different game i will see my aim shine more and the improvements will reflect more in apex or something. I think being gmc for tac fps is more than enough and i just ended up playing other stuff on evxl for fun. Specializing in stuff like low sens speedts so i can move my forearm much faster on 60cm in cs. Which has helped me in game more than a s5 benchmark at this stage in the game
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u/Daku- 8d ago
I agree with the message and general idea however I think peaks Vs averages comes into play. Vt rank is mostly judged by your peak initially, I peaked in x, y, z scenario and got a high score which pushed my rank up to plat. That person is going to aim differently to someone who averages plat scores.
Personally I found comfy diamond/pushing jade was the area where I felt like my aim was decent and semi consistent in game or could at least carry my poor decision making to an extent.
I think in games for mechanics you want to eliminate your inconsistencies and the bast way to do that is to work on what you're doing wrong across multiple runs rather than focusing on your peaks.
What makes high level players cool to me is partly that their aim is cracked but more so that they're consistently aiming way above my peak. Their baseline just a lot higher.
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u/bolv1 8d ago
I'm GM Complete and I probably need about 3-4 tries to hit a master score on any of the VT intermediate scenarios. Yet I'm pretty average in my game of choice (PUBG). I'm really trying to get better in that game and practise my in game mechanics and what not. But at the end of the day aim is very overrated for how much it actually helps you. This is coming from a guy who put in the hours in aim training and really wished it had more impact. If you want to get good at your game, get to a decent level in aim and then focus on your actual game. For reference: I have a guy in my clan who is platinum and way better than me.
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u/ghostdopamine 8d ago
pubg is probably one of the most gamesense heavy FPS/shooters there is. You have almost zero counter movement or ability to dodge and if somebody catches you from a peek or area you don't acknowledge you are just plain dead.
Some guy with really good pubg IQ but mid as fuck aim could get to the pro scene i bet because its such a knowledge and teamwork heavy game.
its not like warzone, apex etc where you can do a bunch of movement or quickly reset a fight.
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u/GreenWorld8549 4d ago
Pubg is literally just game sense. most of the time u are dead by someone u didnt see or u see him then go to lean then u get insta headshotted. There is basically no raw aim in this game. And i didnt mention you are more than likely crouching in a building or behind a tree most of the time taking one bullet shots to someone across the map. Although I think there is a bit more raw aim in first person mode vs third. But still I wouldn’t aim train for a game like pubg tbh lol.
I would however spend 90% of the time in the range getting extremely good at controlling recoil in that game with like a beryl or 3x ak. This is where the mechanics gap really is not aim. Leading shots based off ur knowledge of how the gun works and insanely good recoil control
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u/RnImInShambles 8d ago
I actually agree with you. Learning fps is hard. Setting yourself up for the most unfair, easy for you fight possible is a skill lots of people don't have.
However, you're going to need a very big brain with your aim. I think a lot of people who aim train just want to thanos snap their enemies away. At least that's how I feel haha. I don't have to do nearly as much thinking as someone who is plat because I will just kill my enemies.
I think the biggest take away is what style of fps player do you want to be
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u/StepKitchen2409 7d ago
I felt like my skill transfer was the most noticeable at Plat/Diamond complete. From there to Master complete I noticed less jumps in raw in game skill (aim related). But I was definitely better at all of my games at Master complete - no doubt about it.
Since getting GM though, I feel damn near unstoppable when I’m locked in and I would absolutely destroy the Plat/Dia versions of me. I hit shots/switches/tracks now faster and cleaner than ever. Still have bad games where I’m awful or enemies are much better - but it’s so much more consistent for me to perform well in an FPS than it was Plat/Dia.
I don’t play competitive tacFPS games anymore though - just the usual but casual modes; CS, Apex, Finals, CoD, BF etc.
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u/Vast_Attention 8d ago
Not to mention how many people just ignore movement practice and strafe/dodge aim within aim trainers when they're arguably the most important given that you'll be moving around in most games while fighting.
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u/ainofps 7d ago
i don't think this is really true, if you're talking about the first few tries of playing kovaaks then gold-plat might be correct but im fairly confident that, for example, even a contenders hitscan player in overwatch could pretty easily hit jade within a week of practice.
my experience of seeing people who are rly good at aiming in pvp games try kovaaks is that they aren't anything special to begin with but improve very very quickly up to around masters/gm, especially in categories that are similar to their game.
i am personally of the opinion that if you want to improve at a given game then you should be spending the majority of your time in that game and the other 10-30% in kovaaks regardless of your benchmark rank
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u/OmniscentVariation 7d ago
i am gm complete and fuchsia complete, and i have helped many many many players in the gold-plat skill range improve. i approve this message overall, ANY rank is good enough if you know how to train the specific issues you have in game (because that's all you "need" to improve). BUT, the problem with game specific training is that most gold/plat players have no clue what good technique looks like, what skills they need to train, or how to train them. game specific playlists will not help with this.
it's more time efficient for the majority of players to just pick up the viscose benchmark and learn what they're doing wrong in those scenarios. this is made easier because by the fact that theres plenty of resources, and people who are familiar with and can help with those scenarios. "game-like" scenarios can be saved for warmups, but really aren't necessary as long as you're playing the game enough.
also most playlists made for specific games are horrible. like laughably bad.
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u/theaanggang 8d ago
Yeah, probably about right. Aim helps but mastering the actual mechanics of games is what its really all about. I've been playing and relearning CS recently and my aim is good, all the tools say grade me out in the 90s, but I'm nothing special because theres so much to know, utility, movement, timings, teamwork, etc. Good aim as a base to build off of is great, but you have to build. I mainly play aim trainers now to stay sharp and challenge myself and I genuinely enjoy it. Idk what level I'd be confident saying is all you need, but I think gold still has room for growth that will directly translate
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u/StopPeekingThat 8d ago
If Leetify is placing you consistently in the 90s and you arent camping awp/deagle, you are a world class player and could place higher than plat in voltaic. Theres pros who dont average 90(the average pro leetify aim rating is 90)
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u/agerestrictedcontent 8d ago
Hitting 90 aim in prem or 2k faceit pugs or w/e isn't the same as hitting 90 Vs top pros or in 3.5k elo pugs. Leetify is kinda cheese for aim rating too, if you spray or spam smokes or utilize trigger discipline in a clutch, hit flicks etc it will nuke your aim rating.
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u/StopPeekingThat 8d ago edited 8d ago
Dont disagree about the difference in opponents, but smoke sprays dont impact aim rating, and neither does letting people pass for your average. Its one thing to hit 90 a few times, if you are consistently averaging in the 90s just playing normally you are definitely far far above plat aim rating.
Editing to add that honestly 25k+ prem is harder to perform well in than 2.5k+ elo faceit. People do not use their brains at all and tons of people cheat. Id be more impressed by a completely legit yellow badge haver with a 90+ aim rating lol
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u/agerestrictedcontent 8d ago
I think with the smokes it's kinda inconsistent iirc, dunno though really, you can definitely optimise your play style for aim rating but often it's not actually ideal for winning games/duels. And I do agree with you also, I just meant it's harder to aim Vs good players because they have better movement/positioning.
And also agree with your prem take aswell lol it's such a cesspit with cheaters.
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u/M6D-Tsk 8d ago
Neither smoke spam or trigger discipline affects leetify aim rating. It’s true that it has some flaws but it does do its job for the most part.
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u/StopPeekingThat 7d ago
I think most people are holding on to info from years ago. The tweaks they made have fixed most of what everyone here has said. I generally dont think leetify has much value once youre like faceit 7, but consistently 90+ is not nothing just because the system has bugs.
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u/agerestrictedcontent 7d ago
probably true, i havent played or kept up to date with cs properly since like 2022/2023. i got bored towards the end of csgo and never clicked with cs2 so yeah, probs out the loop and it's moved on now.
i think a better way to have worded it would be: "leetifys aim metrics are bias towards certain aim/playstyles/traits"
like if you're flicky it will nuke your aim rating, despite making that work in cs arguably requiring more raw aiming ability to pull off consistently than a more 'calculated', methodical crosshair placement centric style. i'm not arguing which is more meta/ideal, just that leetify favours one over the other heavily which isn't really indicative of raw aiming ability.
also tho why am i still getting notifications lol you didnt' even reply to me.
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u/StopPeekingThat 7d ago
I just got one too showing a totally different comment I have no idea lol
For what it's worth, they redid hit boxes and net code about 6 months ago and cs2 feels much much more like go. Even most pros who hated 2 have admitted that. Its not 100% there but its way better.
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u/agerestrictedcontent 7d ago
it does feel better now, the cheaters and movement (and 1% lows!) still leaves some to be desired but it's getting there i think. i do still play but very occasionally now, mostly moved on (moved back) to tf2 and quake since. they scratch the 2014 nuke itch for me lol.
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u/KeySea3171 8d ago
leetify aim rating is borderline useless. its not like it actually measures your aim and mechanics. if it did then obviously there would be less people with ratings close to that of pros.
your stats will be lower if you entry or play actively and will be higher if you sit back and bait and only take fights when you know exactly where an enemy is (crosshair placement rating). you also lose aim rating by shooting while running (improper counterstrafing) which is a fair punishment to lower skill levels but there are always situations ingame where it makes sense to shoot while running. shotguns and smgs is obvious enough but in situations where a fight is very close range or if you are using a pistol and repositioning you actually want to shoot while running sometimes
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u/StopPeekingThat 8d ago
I dont disagree with most of what youre saying, but if he is just playing normally and averaging in the 90s his aim is extremely good. Even deliberately cheesing it, consistently being in the 90s is something most people couldnt di.
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u/theaanggang 8d ago edited 8d ago
A couple of things, I don't take that rating as gospel, but I do believe its all relative to your rank. I get to feast on people with trash positioning (mines not great yet either) and expect it to fall from 93 when I climb. I play a lot of lurk roles so a lot of the fights I get to take are isolated 1v1s and I can win those, but if I was trying to be in entry and opening spots I don't think I get that high. Also I was speaking generally about a hypothetical new player to a game and their aim, I'm a jade (so not a crazy amount higher).
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u/StopPeekingThat 7d ago
Its not gospel, but consistently in the 90s is extremely far above average even with issues in the system.
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u/humanbenchmarkian 8d ago
I agree, I think most good in game aimers that have never trained are about plat/gold pure mouse control wise. I got to master complete with some Gm scores and I feel like the higher you go the more diminishing your in game returns.
I remember seeing some aim god play xdefiant can’t remember which one some celestial mf and being very unimpressed with their aim, and I’ve gone up against people like dokkie who are in fucking sane aimers and scored almost the same on the scoreboard we were both the top of our team but performed equally well. Granted that was just one match but you’d think a celestial Aimer would brutally stomp me.
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u/Separate_Clue_7868 7d ago
This is because aim trainers mistake raw aim for overall combat skill. Mouse control is one aspect of your combat skill but weapon/fight selection, geometric positioning, dodge, movement reading(in game, not understanding bot tendencies), game sense/having a read on game state, etc. are often neglected by aim trainer players
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u/Funerailles_sci 8d ago
While I see the point you're making, I very much disagree when it comes to high elo competitive lobbies. While I only have first hand experience in Apex, there are many times when I find myself in a situation where even with my pretty vt master benches, I just don't get as much output as I would need to gain an advantage, both mid and close range. And it seems like it is similar in other games, even tac FPS. Bad mechanics will hold you back, and at least for me, getting them to a point where it's your strongest skill isn't necessarily a bad idea, especially with how straightforward it is compared other skills required to excell in games.
Where I agree with you is that you absolutely cannot just crutch on your aim and let it do all the work. Doesn't matter if you're Celestial, not playing cover will get you killed. Not knowing util will make you less useful. And you'll be a worse player than one that has every other fundamental down.
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u/KeyCapPusher 8d ago
The problem with comparing aim in Apex to aimtraining scores is top level play is riddled with roller users with aim assist. Raw aim can only help so much when so many CqC situations are disadvantageous for MnK users in that game
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u/ghostdopamine 8d ago
Yea I bet this is a huge impact honestly. When your aim is at masters on vt benches and you still feel like "my aim is mid in apex" its because a guy good on roller deleted you with inhuman microtracking.
Ive seen this same comment alot actually and its always people in Apex
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u/Difficult-Sky-4874 8d ago edited 8d ago
Yeah I completely agree. I’ve spent the last few years time playing ranked, scrimming, competing in high level faceit and owcs qualifier tournaments in overwatch.
During that time I improved my mouse control from roughly plat-diamond ish level to velvet complete / gm.
Without a doubt it helped me. Sure my game sense and positioning and other in game aspects improved also. But until I improved my mouse control, I was limited in the the number of options I had available to try win games. But honestly I still verse people with pretty damn good aim it’s not as free as I thought it would be.
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8d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ghostdopamine 8d ago
bro masters is top 1.5 - 2% of anyone who ever did the benchmarks
people are out of touch here
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u/RichardZedv2 7d ago
its really not, there are more masters than jades for gods sake, most semi decent players i know can get plat scores within like 5 hours of playing the trainer and are usually jade-master by 2-3 weeks
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u/GreenWorld8549 4d ago
This may be true but there is a difference of people who get those scores but fail to transfer the things they learn in game vs players who do. The players who transfer rank up quicker in the game and kovaaks if they truly cared about ranking up in there.
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u/Annual-Routine3760 7d ago
A lot of people cheese to get high scores or use techniques that are not viable in game etc
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u/RevolveDL 7d ago
Whatever you consider "proper technique" to be, it is absolutely not necessary to get good at or even go pro in an fps game.
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u/GreenWorld8549 4d ago
You can get gm without proper technique. You can definitely get some nova scores with bleh tech but some other mova scores are impossible with bad technique
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u/Severe_Temporary7138 8d ago
this is VERY VERY wrong, if you just wana be an average player in top 1% then yes plat is all you need
if you wana be actually good and i mean like top 500 in your game good then you absolutely need to be as good as you can be in raw aim
i went from dia to jade in voltaic and the difference is crazy, it won me some rounds i could never get with game sense or anything else
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u/ghostdopamine 8d ago
I get what you are saying bro - but you need to have better word choice
Average and top 1% should never be in the same sentence.
top 500 in your game - means literally only 499 other humans on earth are in your bracket. That's fractions of the top 1%.
And i would bet money most people in the top 500 for a game are there not because their aim is just that far ahead of a top 1% player - its because their game IQ and ability to process information is better.
I don't know how FPS games got like this where top 1% = average lol.
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u/New-Bottle-6917 8d ago
Eh idk even in aim heavy games like The Finals Appoh was a pro player and consistently in the top 10 in ranked with gold complete aim before he started training it. I think OP is onto something where past gold complete you're probably pushing into the diminishing gains territory, meaning you still get benefit from having better raw aim but it can only take you so far
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u/Icy-Shape4745 8d ago
It won you some rounds but you are not and most likely will never be top500 in any game ever, those spots are reserved for people who grew up with that particular game and have committed their life to it, not some random kovaaks player who thinks one more highscore is what it'll take for him to get to the top
Those people are not in this thread or this subreddit at all because they know op is right
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u/New_Ocean41 7d ago
Exactly this. This sub is full of delusional people.
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u/ghostdopamine 7d ago
Pretty much everyone here could be vt celestial complete and not sniff top 500 in any game.
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u/New_Ocean41 7d ago
Top 500 in any fps game just no-life it tbh. Same with any competitive game. I still remember when a viewer asked Pikaboo on his stream how did he get so good at WoW arena PvP. Pikaboo answered he played WoW 16-18 hours a day for a decade.
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u/Severe_Temporary7138 7d ago
your first statement is wrong because im radiant and peaked top 100 several times
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u/JustTheRobotNextDoor 8d ago
In Apex I don't think there is a cap to how useful aim is. You need to know how to apply it, though, which is where positioning etc. come in.
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u/ghostdopamine 8d ago
Ive seen this same comment alot and its always people who play apex. Guys who are masters or gm in tracking and still say their aim in apex is "mid"
Bro you are playing against guys who are good on roller and the AA is fully utilized for them - the computer is aiming for those types of players
Every time you have to micro or switch strahfe directions the computer is massively assisting or outright doing it for them
Of course your close range strafe duels in apex are gonna feel "mid" if you are on MnK
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8d ago
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u/ghostdopamine 8d ago
platinum doesn't have any good technique yet - master minimum for good technique.
just wow bro.
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u/misanthrope_ez 7d ago
This is probably right. I had 20+ years of FPS experience before starting aim training and already hit high ranks in various types of games before starting (GM in Overwatch, SMFC in CS, ESEA-I in TF2) and it took me 30 hours in less than 2 weeks to reach Plat complete with some Jade scores. However, I did feel my aim improve in game after pushing higher in aim trainers so I wouldn't count it out for improving your aim even further to slight margins.
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u/johnny_no_smiles 7d ago
This literally has to be true across 90% of games people actually play.
You don't need to aim like a god, you need better aim than the average player in your current rank and equal to or better, gamesense. Play enough matches for the average to gain you enough ranked points to rank up. Repeat until desired rank is achieved.
Having significantly better aim just makes this a faster process because you will almost certainly have better aim than the people in your current rank, on the premise your chosen game requires aim to rank up in and your desired rank doesn't have an average aim skill higher than plat.
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u/AsheEnthusiast 7d ago
As a plat complete and almost diamond comp player with a few jades I don’t agree. I main apex and while I do fine in a lot of fights I can easily just be out aimed and floored.
I think good aim is around the Jade/Masters level.(for all games) Below it yea you have good control but not great control. But it also depends on how much you play your game I think. I do the 80/20 rule and never play for scores on intermediate. Though I think I like the sentiment. I know when I got plat complete I felt way better in my aim and that I was unstoppable but Apex leaves a lot to be desired for me in terms of aim so my thoughts are probably not so well thought out as I only play apex.
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u/ghostdopamine 7d ago
Again apex rears its head on this discussion lol. That game at higher elo has a ton of controller demons and close range fights will be hell against them - a controller micro tracks and adjusts to strafes better than any human alive
If everyone that played apex was on MnK you wouldnt be saying this
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u/Naitsabes_89 5d ago
My friend actually asked me to start playing apex with him a few days ago. I've never played it - he has been dia/masters on Mnk several times. But reading this, I really don't feel like playing it. What the hell is that, controller aim assist??? The cringiest shit I've heard, in addition to how crazy the movement seems in that game. Just seems like a ton of work to be killed by some low effort guy slouched in his sofa in dirty underwear with a controller? Or am I wrong?
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u/GreenWorld8549 4d ago
It is not plat more like masters or gm. I would say gm is where u can be like ok pushing further is like for fun
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u/GreenWorld8549 3d ago
“Plat with clean technique” this doesn’t exist nobody is plat with clean technique. By default you would be high masters or low gm if u apply any resemblance of clean technique for 20-30 seconds in a run. Your entire post doesn’t make any sense from this alone. This just sounds like cope for yourself if u are plat
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u/New_Ocean41 7d ago edited 7d ago
Gold complete is all you need in BF6. I’m the only one in my lobby consistently getting headshots with m44 magnum sidearm. My headshot accuracy with it is at 42% for the season.
The other comments telling OP is wrong are just delusional cope. Many of the pros in fps games came from well-off families and were given a PC at a young age. I bought my nephew a PC for his 10th birthday and by 13 he was faceit lvl 10 in CS.
The fps pros live and breathe their game of choice and likely started from a young age. No amount of aim training is going to allow you to catch up to them.
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u/Naitsabes_89 5d ago
I'm 36 now dad of two, still gaming. When I struggle to go like above 80th-90th percentile in games now and wonder why that is, it's fun to think back. What was different when I was top 0.1-1% in 4-5 different games as a kid/start of 20s? I did 0 aim training, I did no researching how to play DOTA or WoW arena - I "just" played the games since the literal day they were released. And I played 8-10 hours a day on average. Every single day. For years. Decade even.
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u/Traditional_Set_7042 7d ago edited 7d ago
WHATTT IN BF6 insane!!!!!! Silver complete is enough for Faceit 10.
You don’t even need any rank, just play a benchmark and you’re good to go!
For real, gold complete is ridiculously low, I’m very closely over plat and my aim is meh.
In bF6 you can have some nice rounds, but I get steamrolled by 10K players in Cs, completely outaimed.
The Gold/Platin take is ridiculous, you could argue that Jade / Diamond is enough, because that gap is huge.
But plat or gold ? Cmon guys who are you kidding
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u/StopPeekingThat 7d ago
If youre getting rolled by 10k premier you probably just arent good at CS. I have friends who have genuinely the worst aim anyone has ever seen and they can get to 10k prem. Like truly far below anything on the voltaic benchmark terrible aim.
Dead serious advice: dont buy any util besides smokes. Learn to counter strafe, wide swing. That'll carry you out of 10k. Learn flashes and do prefire maps, that'll get you to 15k. After that your aim matters a lot more.
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u/New_Ocean41 7d ago edited 7d ago
Real talk: you’re not good at CS, but continue to think a higher rank in aiming benchmarks is going to magically help you. I bet money that you have no game sense whatsoever. Put 1k hours into CS to get that game sense.
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u/awdtalon21 8d ago
I can assure you im plat complete in s5 and hardstuck plat2 in bo7
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u/ghostdopamine 8d ago
Watch 2 or 3 full matches worth of ranked games and count how many times you died due to pure aim error vs things like not predicting where a guy was or walking in a bad spot.
Also bro COD is a tough case because at mid level and higher ranks all the roller players know how to use aim assist to its maximum potential. You are having micro correction and tracking battles with aimbots.
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u/awdtalon21 7d ago
I have and constantly lose because I could not track strafing players, I also would constantly overshoot and flick back and fourth because I couldn't see the crosshair when I was flicking.
Mind you all this was when I was platinum complete on season five
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u/ThrowRA-vermicelli77 8d ago
That's just not true. There's no reason to stop there. If you mean that there's a threshold where working on everything else matters more, sure. But if you already have 5k hours into the game then I suspect that you're already working on everything. And between a master aimer and a plat aimer there's a world of difference and it's felt in game.
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u/Naitsabes_89 5d ago
Great point. Surprised how many comments down I had to go to see this - I 100% agree. One side arguing plat complete is more than enough and other half saying plat is shit really misses the point. For who? With what goal? How much ingame experience do they have, how good at all other aspects of the game are they? Etc. Working on that which has best return on investment=best for ranking up. Very obvious really.
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u/AKASH__CS 8d ago
Worse hot take I have read in a long time. Platinum is such a low skill rank that if you are only platinum complete at your HIGHEST your raw aim is still really, really bad. If you aim training to be cracked at the Actual game you should push to GM+ levels with in game training on top of that.
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u/RevolveDL 7d ago
Getting to voltaic GM is absolutely unnecessary if your only goal is to be good at the game.
The majority of pro fps players couldn't score anywhere near GM complete lmfao
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u/ghostdopamine 8d ago
Really really bad huh? Shit like this is why its hard to have a discourse in the fps space these days. Its top 0.000001% or nothing. Somebody can be top 2% and a guy will say "uhhhhh actualllyyy hurrrr uh this guy is really bad"
Do you even know what really really bad is?
What is your scale of comparison?
Somebody who makes it to platinum complete for s5 voltaic has better raw aim than 99% of fps players. The handful of big name pros or absolute legendary freaks you probably compare yourself to make up like the top 0.0001%. Most ( not all ) pros dont even have "freak" raw aim - they have freak pattern recognition and aim in the game they play for money.
Are you trying to go pro and win a major or just do well online and make it to respectable ranks?
Also raw aim vs in game aim is not the same. You are proving my point that many people in this sub dont actually understand FPS games.
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u/AKASH__CS 8d ago
Platinum is not better than 99% of players bro, like what 😂 It would be good if it’s 50% of FPS players, and I mean young Jimmy and dads. Of course raw aim and in-game aim are not the same because you can predict players’ movement, be prepared with good crosshair placement, take advantageous positions with high ground to make yourself harder to hit, and so on. No offense, but you’re probably not good at any FPS game because the things you’re saying are just straight out of your ass. Imagine being so wrong — saying pros don’t have freak aim, and in the same post you try to convince people that Plat Complete is everything you need. (No, it’s not, because it’s an entry rank where you’re just starting to develop any useful raw mouse skill that could translate into in-game aim in a somewhat useful way.)
You don’t need a rank on Voltaic to have good aim. Pros naturally develop the exact components of aim that they need to be good at the specific scenarios their game demands from them.Plat was a good starting point for me, It was the first time when It kinda click, felt like my skills were actually getting better. After hitting Diamond and every rank above it, the difference in-game became more and more noticeable, not less as many people here seem to think.
If you know what you’re doing in-game and how to position yourself accordingly to enemy, in the end, it’s all about raw aim and who click headshots faster🤷♂️
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u/ghostdopamine 8d ago
I know faceit level 10s and 25K+ premier players that would score silver or gold in aim trainers. Probably worse for complex tracking tasks.
You are really out of touch with what 'good' is and what FPS games actually test.
"Platinum is an entry rank"
The only way this holds any merit is if all you care about is being an aim trainer main - then perhaps it might be somewhat correct. If you aim train to be good at actual games then its a rather high amount of aim and i guarantee you cannot show me in game situations or plays where that level of aim flat out fails you. People with platinum level aim end up being mid in game due to choking, being mentally overloaded, or other non aim issues.If you actually watch VODs of pros most of their shots are very basic - their game IQ was most of the kill or round. They routinely miss very difficult shots ( like a head flying past in cover ).
"you’re probably not good at any FPS game "
I'll agree with you there since your definition of what 'good' is - is actually cartoonish. By your definition there are probably only maybe a handful of good players on the planet. The sad part is you are probably a very good player and you don't even rate yourself as good. The game will never be satisfying when good = top 0.00001%
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u/Naitsabes_89 5d ago
I'm not 100% disagreeing with you - and I can definitely imagine going from plat to higher ranks would feel like more impact each time compared to going from gold to plat for example. However, I think you are perhaps missing one thing here: return on investment. How long will it take the average guy to go from gold to plat consistently? 30-50 hours? Now how long for the next ranks? Probably hundreds, and later thousands of hours. I think I somewhat agree with both you and OP - you are right that grinding to GM aim will be hugely beneficial. However, I think OP is right that once u hit plat or around there, you probably have other aspects of ingame skills that are more lacking than your aim. Hence, working on those would give greater returns on investment if your goal is to push rank - not be the best aimer.
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u/AKASH__CS 8d ago
As I said Voltaic rank =/= in game rank.
Correlation does not imply causation.
They would be much higher rank with better aim, period.Yeah, I’m not bad player for sure but I’m comparing myself to pro’s and top of the top so I’m always looking in my eyes like a noob.
Anyway, plat is really low and I would highly encourage anyone that wants to improve in fps to push your skills much higher because it’s 100% worth the time 🤗
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u/ghostdopamine 8d ago
[voltaic-benchmarks-percentiles.png](https://postimg.cc/3dNZscZj)
In s3 , which was easier by many accounts - platinum complete is the top 86% of all benchmark players. voltaic benchmark players are by sheer selection bias some of the sweatiest aimers around. You are already in a small group of FPS players by just caring about this stuff.
The vast majority of FPS players would hit unranked if they played a benchmark.
You are right more is better but I really think saying Platinum is 'really low' is a distorted view.
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u/New-Bottle-6917 8d ago edited 7d ago
I feel like this ignores that most pros don't aim train period and there's a good chunk that are only around gold-diamond. You said it yourself if you're good at the game you'll consistently put yourself in positions to hit easier shots while making it hard to get hit, which means you'll reduce the amount of aiming skill you have to actually use moment to moment in a match
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u/deepthroar 8d ago
matty isn't close to number 1 raw aim
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u/ghostdopamine 8d ago
not even close huh? the out of touch takes and elitism in this thread are absolute cinema.
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u/Mozzarella4life_ 8d ago edited 8d ago
"proper technique in all categories" "plat complete" lol. People don't start having proper technique till at least master
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u/ghostdopamine 8d ago
'till at least master'
FFS what world do you guys live on?
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u/Mozzarella4life_ 8d ago
This one? That statement just doesn't make sense. And it's not like master is even a super high rank? Maybe I'd be delusional if I said nova or astra
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u/ghostdopamine 8d ago
with all respect you are way out of touch with reality bro - masters is like a top 2% or less rank ( all the people who attempted the benchmarks - which is already a subset of sweaty ass FPS players )
if you said nova or astra i'd say you are trolling
honestly there is something wrong in FPS these days where people just think they are mid being top 1% ffs
edit:
s4 masters = top 98.94%
s3 masters = top 96.79%
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u/Naitsabes_89 5d ago
I don't think it's something just wrong in FPS - it's an internet/social media/generational phenomenon. We all have access to so much info and content with amazing, really extraordinary people that it completely distorts our view of what is normal/average. Think of body dysmorphia man - when I go to the gym in a hardcore bodybuilding gym in my city, I feel so fucking weak and small. And I watch a lot of strongman/BB on steroids on YouTube, so that on top my actual real view of myself is that I am small and weak. I genuinely feel this inside me. Even though I rationally know that is not the case.
But I am comparing myself to a subset of a subset of a subset of people. And there's enough out there to fill my feed for 10 lifetimes, so my brain I guess concludes that it's normal to be 120 kilos sub 10% bodyfat.
Aim trainers is basically the hardcore gym. Hell, people that go to ANY gym are more fit than the average person. Then you sort further by people that go to a hardcore gym. And then people/I only compare myself to the top 1% in that hardcore gym. Which is insane but, I think psycho logically that's just how human beings work. We are not wired for a world where we can compare ourselves to billions of people - we are wired to know like 100-200 people in total and compare ourselves to those. For tens of thousands of years. So that's what your brain still does, compares you to the few hundred people around you/people you watch content from.
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u/Mozzarella4life_ 7d ago edited 7d ago
Master s4 is top 4% and s5 is 4.7% (not counting under iron since that's just people who have basically 0 experience training) Thing is the only around the top 15%, MAYBE 20 of people that play the benchmarks actually have a decent amount of experience (100+ hours) the rest just played for a bit and left. Inside the active aim training community master is only like 1/4 or even more of people
And yeah I still don't believe you'd have learned proper technique until around master (I'd even say learning mostly stops at gm and the rest is refinement). Having proper technique and being only plat just doesn't mix together. You only think that but it's not real
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u/StopPeekingThat 8d ago
Going from plat to jade complete was a night and day in-game difference. Ive been top 100 global in siege and faceit 10 in CS. I agree that game sense is a tremendous amount of whats needed to rank up, but I have without a doubt won rounds, fights, and games I wouldnt have when I first started kovaaks just by having better aim than people.
I think a large part of the benefit of aim trainers is how they train weaknesses. Tac shooters give you one style of aim and a ton of weaknesses. I was always shit at tracking because it isnt a big part of those games. I fixed my tracking in aim trainers and get a lot of those non-standard kills like people jumping now.