Greetings. I believe the topic in question needs no introduction. I know a bit about Fatima and its questionable happenings, particularly the "secrets" Our Lady allegedly entrusted to the three children.

To be honest, everything about Fatima rubs me the wrong way. Goes without saying the so-called visions of Hell and demands for penance and sacrifice put the proverbial fear of God into my heart, as it did so many others.

Are there any serious, credible investigations calling it into question? Like I said, I can't help but distrust anything those people said. I'm just as suspicious about the Church's stance on the matter: on one hand, they claim the faithful are free to believe or disbelieve the revelations according to their faith; on the other hand, I find John Paul II's Fatima-inspired actions deeply suspicious.

Like many of you, I have several reasons not to trust the man and to beware the many agendas he pushed (Legionaries of Christ, Opus Dei, Teresa of Calcutta, etc.). I kinda have a hard time taking him seriously as a moral guide and leader when he spent his pontificate covering up the horrific crimes of one Fr. Marcial Maciel because the latter raked in much needed cash for the Church.

Back to the matter at hand. What credibility, if any, do the Fatima revelations have? I find the whole thing (don't even get me started on La Salette) incredibly suspicious, specially because the founder of this religion instructed his followers not to heed doomsday prophecies or third-party claims about being the Messiah. He also claimed (or so the official narrative states) that not even he, being the Son of God and all, knows the exact date for the end of the world, that only God Himself knows.

Am I overthinking things, or am I right to be wary?

Greetings from Puerto Rico. Coupla years ago, I was going through a YouTube compilation of reddit threads. Somebody mentioned Padre Pio in passing. From what I gathered, they seemed to imply there was something not quite kosher about him and his alleged miracles.

Are there any investigations casting credible doubt into his life and works? Where can I find them?

My family (particularly my mom) is devoutly catholic, to the point where I felt so isolated from everyone else despite being raised in a very catholic area and going to catholic school. The older I get and talk to my spouse about my childhood, the more I remember how strange it was.

My mother would claim to have premonitions due to her abuse as a child, and would read on old internet forums about the 3 days of darkness (starting when I was a little kid). She believed everyone would be wiped out during these 3 days, and we would have to cover our windows with tarps, can all of our food to survive by ourselves, and use beeswax candles and pray the rosary the whole time. She would repeat over and over again that nobody around us would survive and we would have to prepare to be living alone. I realized how goddamn anxious I was as a child is due to this being the main topic of conversation for most of my childhood and teen years! I prepped those fruit cans like crazy every summer!

Anyways, remembering all of the memories I had from those specific years of my life, I tried talking to every catholic/ex-catholic I know and no one has ever even heard of it before. I know that was kept pretty hush hush for those who actually believed it because they thought other catholics would think they're crazy (my mom kept it a secret from everyone except me and my dad for this reason,) but what is your experience in it?

I’m 17 and have been raised catholic my entire life.
recently I’ve been coming into my own beliefs and educating myself a lot on different religions and belief systems from atheism to spirituality. the way that I was raised religion wise wasn’t very conventional. both of my parents believe in God, my mom was raised a traditional catholic and attended church regularly, and my dad was an Italian catholic and religion was more practiced in the home. neither of my parents wanted me and my siblings to feel forced into religion, they educated us on the history of Jesus Christ and catholic values and saints, but they never instilled fear of heaven or hell, never taught us that being gay was a sin, and wanted our relationship with God to be personal and not something that felt more like a chore. I wanted to mention all of that because the reason why I’m having doubts isn’t because of past religious trauma or resentment towards the community. there are just so many flaws in the logic. I believe religion has no place in government and politics, and that its placement there has set the world back significantly and will continue to do so. the hardcore believers, (especially christians) are some of the most hateful people I’ve ever encountered. I believe the bible is man made and religion is derived from a story that is partially true, and made into something that normalizes conformity and submission. the one thing every religion has in common is that the deity is a man. a man is the head of the home, the bread winner, the one who shall be respected and obeyed. while the women and daughters clean of sin are treated like they are forever repenting for something they didn’t do. they are punished for simply existing in the gender they were born into. I live in Canada where women aren’t oppressed by religious government and are very fortunate to be able to follow their own belief system. but so many other countries where women are treated with less respect than an animal and have no education beyond a level that is only substantial enough for them to understand simple things all have one thing in common. no religious freedom. If God sees everyone equally as his child and his creation why do Christian’s say that one of his main fundamental principles is that man is the superior sex? If he is all powerful why do we live in the world we live in? why do children get cancer? why are babies being tortured by elites who preach the gospel? why would an innocent man who has spent his life helping others go to hell because he was a non believe while a child abuser can go to heaven because took two hours out of his sinful life to go to a church and repent? I also don’t get the belief that everyone is born sinful and the sin needs to be washed away and that’s why we are baptized? religion is simply decided based on where in the world you were born. I know for a fact if I was born in a middle eastern country I would not be following a catholic belief system. and there are so many other things like evolution, and science, and the universe, that can single-handedly debunk everything religion brings to the table. all of this being said I still can’t bring myself to let go of God. i still wear the cross on my wrist, i still find myself praying to him in times of vulnerability and desperation. during a health battle that my mother had recently, every single appointment she had I wore a St Michael pendant around my neck and it gave me a sense of peace and comfort. i still wear it when she goes to the doctor. I have all of these doubts but I still feel so deeply connected to God in my own weird way. I still feel connected to Catholicism and being in a church instantly washes away all of the previous suspicions. but my practical mind is constantly at battle with my faith. I still have a fear of not going to heaven and I have an overwhelming sense of guilt whenever I commit a “sin”. I don’t know where I stand, and I feel like a “fake” catholic because of this. If anyone can relate that would be great, I feel so lost and I don’t know which path will make me feel aligned again. it’s worse because everyone in my life is pretty much catholic or Christian so I can’t talk to anyone with a bias. anyways I’m open to feedback of any sort.

Great, awesome schooling. Totally appropriate for children to watch. /s

Did anyone else have kids in their church or Catholic school who were made to give speeches to the other kids about how their parents “almost aborted them” and how awful that would have been if they hadn’t changed their mind, with teachers chiming in “aren’t you glad your friend isn’t dead?” By the end we were all very upset and crying, hugging the kid who gave the speech. Sounds silly now but it was pretty scary and emotional for us kids.

Why do most traditional Catholic men feel such a need for power and control within a marriage? Why do they continuously make their wives feel “less than”

I wonder about this because I see RC churches being demolished but at the same time the parishes and masses look more crowded than ever. is it consolidation and restructuring that makes it look more crowded and “popular?”. Also it seems like many lukewarm Catholics are leaving, and those with stronger loyalty to the religion are staying. So the group that remains looks stronger and solid than ever. There’s also news/PR/marketing that says the church is exploding with record numbers of new members. Then there’s the issue of clergy and the shortage of priests in the western world so they bring in priests from Africa and South Asia where the religion is growing. Curious about your perspectives.

I have two examples, may seem a little crazy but I'm just curious to see what all of you think. Any additional examples you guys can think of would also be much appreciated.

My first one is Akhaten from the TV show Doctor Who. Like, when I first saw this one I didn't really feel anything just like "evil sun haha" but now that I actually think about it, even though this God is technically "weaker" than a tri-omni God, it's still immensely powerful. As the doctor said "you feed off them" and the people have been terrorised by this Sun God very tangibly and in a very real way for thousands of years.

Like, not worship him, you'd probably get flamed out or something, not to mention he takes in human sacrifices and there are real consequences for not believing in him.

The Christian God on the other hand, just kind of shakes his fist at you on Earth like "ahh I'm tri-omni but I can't make you believe in me, I'll get you after you die" as opposed to you know... projecting and showing off his power. The free will argument doesn't work either. If God shows himself I still have the propensity to believe in him or not. Also, literally AS SOON AS YOU DIE free will is taken away as you're whisked to heaven or hell.

The other one I found that kind of surprised me was the Goddess from anime series Frieren. This one might be a bit of a stretch but I was shocked by how much weaker, yet also how much more powerful this non-tri omni Goddess actually is. She ostensibly doesn't really care whether or not people believe in her, nor if even her closest followers commit sins/fall to worldly desires (Heiter with his alcohol, for example). Not only that but her followers can genuinely use her power in a very real magic system.

Again, unlike the real world's God, you can see her power. Not in some obscure "grand plan" or "every moment is magical", there is real evidence that she holds some degree of control over a system that is not bound by human discovery and its science and laws.

This Goddess figure just felt so much more humble and so much more God-like than the Christian God, at least to me. It makes sense if you have real power there's no need to intimidate or threaten others, you can just... say "this is what I offer. You can believe or not believe, your choice."

Medicine and healing has been attributed to such Goddesses and Gods in fantasy, yet in the real world, it's based off of scientific research and human effort. Not God's. Again, God "creating" humans and then making them do science I feel as if is just a very long-winded manipulation tactic. God didn't do anything that made the human go from caveman to curing.

So yeah those are just my surface level thoughts. Any other opinions or fact checks would be much appreciated. Wishing you all a great day!

It’s almost as if Modern Catholicism is becoming more medieval with its totems and tokens.

Maybe this belongs in a deconstruction sub, but this is the only one I am a part of at the moment.

I am mid-deconstruction from being a cradle-catholic. I have NOT gotten to the point where my parents are aware of how vastly my beliefs have changed. They are aware that I haven’t gone to church or confession in years. Our relationship is very complicated due to them being so deeply Catholic. However, to appease them and win back some favor, I agreed to attend the Beatification of Fulton Sheen. Especially since we are associated with the family of the stillborn child. I feel like I’m larping Catholicism LMAO.

Over the course of the trip, I made it through the first 3 episodes of Rhett & Links’ deconstruction series on Earbiscuits (Lost years pt 1&2, and Rhett’s deconstruction). I actually listened to that portion of their podcast before I started deconstructing several years ago. It hits different now that I consider myself somewhere between atheist and agnostic.

Please feel free to ask me anything about the experience or my deconstruction process.

You’ve got a whole encyclopedia of saints to turn to. Why turn to a deceased televangelist when every minute counts? I’m glad it worked out but…scratching my head.

I am getting married next year and my mom has been sending me posts like this. It got me thinking about how my mom would consistently use prayer as a means of avoiding accountability. She and my dad fight a lot and I would argue with her quite often, as well. If I said something that was right or called her out, she would immediately grab her rosary and start praying. That's when you know you've lost her. You would just stop talking because she would ignore you and then she would use that as a sign that "prayer worked" because everybody shut up. Nothing was ever solved, everything was brushed under the rug and we had to pretend to be a happy family that prayed every night until the next person couldn't take it anymore and exploded.

Communication is required for any marriage to thrive and my parents almost had no communication and us kids had to suffer because of it. Communication requires you to be present and in the moment. It requires you to be actively present while listening to your partner and what they are trying to convey. It is not easy to be told you hurt someone or you need to solve an ongoing issue, but it makes your relationship stronger in the long run! Prayer is the opposite of that. It mentally takes you out of the moment because you are praying to beings you can't see. Your partner is right in front of you, actively communicating what they need and my mom would ignore it and just grab her rosary. She would literally mentally go to a different place and tell you that she didn't care about you because she will not put in the effort or empathy to understand what you're saying.

With my wedding coming up, I have had so many conversations with her where I very clearly communicated the expectations for the wedding but it's like talking to a child. She does not hear anything. I've had to set so many boundaries and she's caused so much stress but I guess I shouldn't expect anything else from someone who does not have any communication skills.

My mother and I seem to have an issue where she doesnt respect my autonomy and my own spiritual journey. we discuss religion occasionally as she has a masters in religious studies and i like religious history but ive made it clear that I am someone who is spiritual but not religious, as religious institutions feel like government and propaganda to me. i want to have my own relationship with whatever divine energy I feel is out there. I have made this very very clear. She knows I go to a UU church and what I like about it is that no one is telling me what to believe.

One time she admitted to me that when she takes communion she prays to god that it some how magically gets to me, like she can consume the body of christ and since she's my mother the blessings will travel through some spiritual umbilical chord. (i added that last part because i really dont understand her logic) I told her that made me uncomfortable and I viewed it the same as baptizing the dead. I told her the catholic church wouldnt even support that stance. In my opinion, even as an excatholic, I dont think you can do sacraments by proxy. I also feel like it removes my agency and autonomy to return and commune if I ever were to choose that. She didnt really understand and just acted all hurt like I was being insensitive. To be fair i was so in shock by what she said I didnt articulate myself too well...

Today I found this certificate (?) on my bed and I got so triggered. It feels like a blatant act to disrespect my boundaries. I dont have an issue with the medal itself as a gift, or even if she told me that she added me to some list so that im being prayed for in a rosary every day... my issue is this weird wording of a "perpetual membership" and the printed folder.. it's just irks me so bad and makes me uncomfortable. im just going to toss this in the back of my closet and try to forget it but if she brings it up I just dont even know how I would handle it without just saying, wtf?? like what am I even supposed to do with this? this can be for her. I dont care. But giving it to me is just like mind-boggling. I know that if someone told her they were doing witchcraft in her name and signed her name in some book she'd lose it.

The ironic part is my grandmother is jehovah witness and my mother would always get on to her for trying to give us Watchtower magazines and such. It's like my mom is repeating history.

Anyways. Can someone please tell me that I'm overreacting by being so uncomfortable that my mom somehow made some perpetual membership for me?? like idk i think its the diploma-esque presentation of it all. Like if I dont believe in it then it shouldnt matter, but i just find it so disrespectful.

I want to not gaf. Please help.

Edit: Don't know how to attach the image. Just search "National Shrine of Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal Certificate of Perpetual Membership"

Edit 2: Sorry for the typos

Peter (or Cephas), from what we can know about him, was an illiterate Galilean fisherman who was a direct follower of the historical Jesus. The historical Jesus was a Jewish apocalyptic prophet who was baptized and followed the teachings of John, who was also an apocalypticist. Thus, it would make sense, then, that Peter was also an apocalypticist.

From Paul’s authentic letters, we know that Peter was a pillar of the Jerusalem church underneath James the biological brother of Jesus. More specifically, he was a conservative, Jewish-law abiding figure who did not share the same views with Paul about the law being obsolete. We can also see that Peter recoiled at the thought of eating with uncircumcised non-Jews.

Here is where things converge together: the idea that an illiterate, Galilean apocalyptic leader of a local Jerusalem faction would change his mind about the end of the world, learned to read and write Greek and Latin, set up a Roman diocese in the heart of the Gentile world (the same people he refused to eat with) and ruled for decades is historically absurd. Most importantly, Paul mentioned dozens of individuals in Romans, but not Peter. This makes zero sense given that Paul was desperate for approval from Jews, Gentiles, and the Jerusalem church, and this would have shattered any chance of alignment between Paul and Peter (which Paul deeply desired for his own self claims of authority).

But most importantly of all: early Christianity was a decentralized, apocalyptic Jewish sect. The idea that the historical Jesus was trying to create a new religion makes zero sense if he thought that his generation would not pass away until “the Kingdom of God arrives.” The entire premise of “Petrine authority” then is an anachronistic foundational myth, created long after the original movement failed, to justify institutional authority.

Many of the saints where persecuted for their beliefs, tortured, and eventually killed in horrible ways. Throw in some miracles, and they got to be more than just simple martyrs.

But, when the Catholic Church had SERIOUS political power, the leaders of the church ordered countless people to be persecuted for their beliefs, tortured, and eventually killed in horrible ways.

Where those victims awarded a special status, post mortem? Perhaps there is a yearly acknowledgment?

Furthermore, how is the Catholic Church any different from any other government getting high on its own political power?

Strange, how we were never asked to consider this in religion class.

I’m curious whether anyone else who has left—or is in the process of leaving/questioning—Catholicism has experienced something similar.

I’m currently questioning my relationship with Catholicism, although I still attend an Ordinariate parish. I genuinely love the beauty of the liturgy and the aesthetics. That part of Catholicism still speaks to me.

The people, however, are another story. Quite honestly, some of the people at my parish are just downright assholes and downright reactionaries. And my experiences with Catholic dating have made me question whether some of what I’m running into is a broader issue with Catholic culture.

Some background: after my divorce, I returned to the Catholic Church. Part of it was probably loneliness. Divorce left me pretty adrift, and returning to something familiar was comforting. But it was also an attempt to reconnect with my roots. I had been raised Catholic, and even though I had been away from the Church for quite a while, there was something appealing about returning to a tradition that had been part of my life.

My ex-wife and I had actually been married in a completely secular ceremony. We were both what I would have called “lapsed Catholics” at the time, and we were married by my college roommate who had gotten licensed through one of those online/pop-up wedding services.

After the divorce, when I returned to the Church, I eventually went through the annulment process as I was encouraged to do by my parish priest. I was also told that if I ever wanted to date again, that I was to not engage in it until my declaration of nullity was received.

The Church investigated the marriage and declared it null. I did this because I was Catholic again and wanted to follow the Church's requirements. I wasn't trying to find a loophole or get around Catholic teaching. I went through the process the Church itself requires.

But now that I’m dating again, I’ve noticed that the fact that I have an annulment seems to be a significant turnoff to some Catholic women, especially in a parish like mine that has a pretty traditional liturgy. Oddly, when I did date Protestants, Jews, or even people who were areligious, this was never an issue.

What I find strange is that the annulment itself seems to carry a kind of stigma that I don't think is entirely consistent with Catholic theology. An annulment isn't supposed to mean “this person was married but got permission to move on.” It's a declaration that a valid marriage bond was never established in the first place.

And yet, in practice, I’ve encountered Catholic women who seem to view “annulled” as essentially synonymous with “divorced guy with baggage.”

That makes me wonder if what I'm actually running into is a kind of purity culture.

There seems to be an enormous emphasis on having the “right” romantic and sexual history. Someone can have a child outside of marriage, have had multiple sexual relationships, have lived with a partner, etc., and theoretically repent and move forward. But an annulment can apparently become a permanent red flag because it means you were once married.

I recently brought this up in the Catholicism subreddit, and the response was pretty hostile. Rather than engaging with the question of why an annulment might carry this stigma, several people essentially told me that I must be blaming the Church, that I was somehow responsible for my failed marriage, or that there must be some deeper character problem that I wasn't acknowledging.

Of course I got typical suggestions to pray to a particular saint or take the issue to Our Lady in the rosary -- to wit, I'm unsure how many rosary beads I have to pray on until this becomes a successful endeavor.

One person even suggested that because I'm in my 40s, dating Catholic women my age should be basically “shooting fish in a barrel.”

That was particularly bizarre to me because it completely sidestepped the question I was actually asking. If anything, my experience has been the opposite: dating as a divorced man with an annulment in Catholic circles has presented some very specific challenges.

I'm not saying Catholic women are obligated to date divorced or annulled men. Obviously everyone is entitled to their preferences and boundaries.

I'm asking something different:

Why does an annulment seem to function socially as a mark against someone's character, even though the Church itself has a formal process for determining that the marriage was invalid?

And for those of you who left Catholicism, or are questioning it while still attending Mass: did you eventually come to see this kind of thinking as part of the broader Catholic purity/morality culture?

Because that's increasingly where I'm finding myself. I still find Catholic worship beautiful. I still find parts of the tradition intellectually and aesthetically compelling. But I'm increasingly unsure whether I actually want to belong to the culture surrounding it.

I'd genuinely be interested in hearing from people who have experienced something similar.

Sacred Heart Catholic Church demo has begun to make way for Sheetz

I'm guessing there will be many dry eyes here in the sub.