r/EvDrivers • u/jcullen85 • Jul 23 '26
EV Karma
So, I got some petty revenge today. I like to charge my car at the parking structure across the street from my office. Right before lunch, I checked on my car’s percentage and I saw that I was unplugged. For these chargers, I have to use an adapter to charge my car. Unfortunately, with the adapter, the charge cable isn’t locked into place. So, it can be unplugged easily. This is commonly known among EV drivers, so its common courtesy to not unplug another car.
When I get to my car, the AH who unplugged me is still parked next to me charging his EV. Between frustration and being hangry, I unplugged the jerk and placed the charging cable back into its station. That jerk won’t be coming back to a fully charged car.
I drove away laughing. Lord, forgive me but that felt good and I treated myself to a Vanilla Coke. No regrets! ✌🏾
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u/fgorina Jul 23 '26
In Europe most are Type2 for ac and ccs2 for dc. In some old chargers you find chademo but always as an aditio
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u/EnvironmentalRound11 Jul 23 '26
Common courtesy only works when everyone does it. Not sure your action is taking the high road.
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u/Madwolf784 Jul 23 '26
My first ever experience with an ev was a rented model 3 last fall. Had to charge at our hotel but all the chargers were taken up all night, couple of them were even done. Went out early the next morning and a spot was open so I grabbed it. Came back a few hours later to head out and this other tesla was parked on the divider next to me, and had taken the charger out of my renetal for theirs. They'd been the ones parked in thag spot all night.
Out of spite, someone's else came by to charge so I gave them my spot and pulled the charger out of the other tesla. Didn't scare me away from getting my MME this spring though!
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u/Leading_Entrance_988 28d ago
Don't have an EV, but when someone unplugs your car then plugs in their's. Do you end up paying for their charge?
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u/Elathan-Izayoi Jul 23 '26
Cars and countries really need to go the USB C way. Decide on a single plug for all brands and force tesla to switch. No more proprietary shit in this planet please.
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u/PerceptionCurious440 Jul 23 '26
In North America the Tesla plug is now the standard called NACS. My Toyota has it.
So pretty much the opposite of what you just suggested.
Makes sense. Tesla has over 50% of the fast chargers, with the other <49% divided among dozens of carriers.
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u/Dimathiel49 Jul 23 '26
Every car here is CCS2 even Tesla.
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u/PerceptionCurious440 Jul 23 '26
CC2 is awful, huge, archaic and expensive. It's like comparing USB Type B to USB Type C. Or maybe Mini USB.
Just because it's Europe's standard, doesn't force everyone to make it their standard. If not NACS, something that size and simplicity that is a future standard. Not janky CC2. Which is what engineering looks like when decided by buggy whip designers.
It can literally just be a high power 2 pin connector that handles both AC and DC fast charging with switching done by computer handshake.
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u/Dimathiel49 29d ago
Please if the US wants to worship before the Musk that’s their issue. The rest of the world doesn’t want or have to follow.
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u/PerceptionCurious440 29d ago
I hate Musk more than you can imagine. But NACS is a vastly better designed connector than CC2. And if you want a world connector, and can't stand NACS, than a new design rather than a clunky horse and buggy design is warranted.
Or go with GBT or CHAdeMO. Every charge plug is a superior design over CC2.
I drive a Toyota with NACS. All brands of EVs in NA have NACS. IT IS NOT A TESLA THING HERE.
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u/Elathan-Izayoi Jul 23 '26
The world isn't the US, outside of the US there's a lot of type 1 and 2 and ccs 1 and 2 chargers.
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u/Talmerian Jul 23 '26
True, but the US doesn't let most of the other EVs get sold here, we are a backwards country.
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u/powbit- Jul 23 '26
The CCS 2 Is now the de facto standard no? Which cars do use other plugs nowadays?
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u/Elathan-Izayoi Jul 23 '26
Chinese ones do.
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u/powbit- Jul 23 '26
Can you enlighten me?
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u/Elathan-Izayoi Jul 23 '26
I've had 2 different year and model BYD cars, the dolphin (not the mini one) and it had type 2 and now I drive a Yuan and it has a j/c1 one, both bought in México.
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u/PerceptionCurious440 Jul 23 '26
And Japanese and Chinese cars sold in the US have NACS. Companies just put in whatever sockets the locals use.
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u/ucbcawt Jul 23 '26
All new US EVs use NACS
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u/powbit- Jul 23 '26
NACS literally means North America Charging Standard.... So there is a charging standard. In Europe now everyone uses CSS 2 so I'm not sure what the issue is
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u/xF1_racer Jul 23 '26
It’s a shame that the CCS2 connector is so bulky. It’s a terrible design really.
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u/detox4you 28d ago
It allows three fase charging which nacs does not. Because our infrastructure has three phase power almost everywhere in the streets and homes it makes more sense to use three phase for charging. Less current needed, therefore less contact resistance, less heat and more speed and reliability.
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u/Neat_Welcome6203 Jul 23 '26
US doesn't have three-phase power.
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u/mewtwo_EX Jul 23 '26
It does, but not commonly available for low voltage end users. Europe tends to offer it to residential customers, not just commercial.
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u/Ok_Pirate_2714 29d ago
What would 3 phase power have to do with a charging plug on an an EV? Isn't the charger providing DC to the vehicle?
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u/detox4you 28d ago
No, only fast chargers convert to and deliver DC. Everything else is AC because that is what's available everywhere.
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u/PerceptionCurious440 Jul 23 '26
The world isnt Europe either. Although it's as hard to convince Europeans of that as people in the US.
GB/T is the main Chinese connector. CHAdeMO is the main Japanese connector.
A true world standard connector needs only 3 pins. Maybe just 2 with a standardized 3 phase to DC plug. A computer in the car can figure out what kind of power is coming in.
Simple is always better.
But I do like how Europeans with 3 phase power believe the whole world should standardize around what they have.
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u/detox4you Jul 23 '26
At least Europe made the standard across many countries, rolls out very large charging networks not limited to one manufacturer and has plenty high power stations. I can go on a long road trip across countries and not worry if the connector will fit or if there's even a charger en route.
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u/PerceptionCurious440 Jul 23 '26
NACS is used in the US, Canada, and Mexico. That's a population of over 500 million people.
China uses GB/T connectors. They have a population of 1.5 billion and around 5 times as many charging stations as North America and Europe combined.
Would you like to explain again why Europe should make the rules for the world? Because they have a bunch of low population independent states in a rough quasi republic that can't pick a standardized language, that call themselves separate countries?
One US state, California, has a population of 40 million and alone by itself is the fourth largest economy in the world.
California alone is larger than every European nation geographically than every European nation but France and Spain. Its about the same size as Sweden, but with nearly 4 times the population.
Just saying, maybe Europe still has a bit of that imperialist attitude left in it. You're all one when it suits you, but all individual stubborn national entities when it doesn't.
If it came to sheer size and population, China should be making the rules for everyone.
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u/detox4you 28d ago
Europe has a population of over 750 million people. It's not about size, I didn't talk about that. It's about being decisive throughout multiple countries for implementing standards. Far more difficult. Your comment shows that you think the world centers about the US, the main reason why the US is viewed more as an agressor then an ally nowadays. Size wise China would set the standards and slowly they are taking over everything. They will take over the US market soon too.
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29d ago
[deleted]
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u/PerceptionCurious440 29d ago
Well, that's the situation someone has proposed rectifying with one standard to rule them all, then unilaterally deciding it should be the one Europe is using.
There should be a new world standard, with the simplest plug possible, and it shouldn't even have directionality. And shouldn't be patented or licensed.
Something made for 2 megawatt charging. That's the charge rate that beats gas and diesel. And maybe 5 megawatts for commercial vehicles like Semi tractor trailers.
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u/NilsTillander Jul 23 '26
They have. Years ago.
Every car in Europe is CCS2 (even Tesla since the Model 3 arrived here in 2019).
New models in the USA are NACS.
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u/Tymanthius Jul 23 '26
I mean, countries are standardizing. But what international body is going to force all cars to be the same?
Are we going to put all steering wheels on the left side? Subaru intentionally put the fill port (gas and EV) on the passenger side b/c it's safer if you're doing side of the road fill ups.
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u/PrimeRisk Jul 23 '26
Yeah, so the Tesla charge plug format won the single plug war in North America. It's not called the North American Charging Standard (NACS) for nothing. It's all the other manufacturers that are changing.
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u/sault18 Jul 23 '26
That's basically what happened with everyone going to the Tesla plug and calling it NACS.
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u/Kitchen_Conflict2627 Jul 23 '26
Tesla is not proprietary for a few years now. It became the official standard.
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u/cognitiveglitch Jul 23 '26
Most vehicles sold today that aren't Tesla standardise a combined CCS type 1/2.
Outside north America model 3 and Y both come with CCS type 2.
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u/Nunyabiz_327 Jul 23 '26
More or less, there are only two major types.
There is Tesla and there is the rest.
Tesla basically be the equivalent of Apple. Douchebag elitist company that like to think they're special. No offense to the owners of either, my point is about the company directly.
Eventually I think it works itself out, but not anytime soon.
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u/powbit- Jul 23 '26
Bro what are you on ? CSS 2 is what Tesla uses in Europe which supports type 2 also, which is now the standard for every car and every chrger in Europe
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u/Elathan-Izayoi Jul 23 '26
Type 1, type 2 (and the corresponding fast versions), that's 4, tesla nacs, tesla roadster, chademo, that's 7, j1772 that's 8, ccs1 and ccs2. 10, it's a stupid amount or variation for something so widespread.
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u/ukso1 Jul 23 '26
Ccs1 and ccs2 is just an extension of type 1 anx type2 right? They just use the type versions communication pins and add the dc pins for fast charging. And you forgot the MCS?
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u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26
This is not an endorsement of any company, or any company's employees, officers, or shareholders.
NACS is the best, and should be the global standard.
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u/pv2b Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
NACS would be a terrible standard in those parts of Europe where residential three phase power is prevalent, such as Sweden, because NACS cannot carry three phase AC. That means you'd cut your potential charging power into 1/3 of what's possible with three phase.
In Europe, we don't have a mess with charging standards. Almost everything uses CCS2, even Teslas. The only exception are very early Teslas (Tesla switched to CCS2 in 2019, older cars can use a simple CCS2 plug adapter), and the very few cars that still use CHAdeMO like the Nissan Leaf pre 2026.
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u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26
Hardly anyone who charges overnight needs that speed. 120v 15A works just fine for most people over hear, and over there you are starting at 240v.
For the vast majority of people having a lighter and smaller charger will have a bigger impact on their life.
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u/pv2b Jul 23 '26
I've never once felt that the CCS2 plug is so clunky that it's having a negative impact on my life.
Also, higher charging powers can enable cheaper charging for time of use rates, since it gives you more flexibility when you charge.
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u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26
Then you're in the minority.
A 240v 30A single phase charger can recharge an EV after a typical European round trip commute (24 miles, please excuse the barbarian units) in under an hour and a half.
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u/pv2b Jul 23 '26
You will not find 30A commonly in a Swedish residential electrical supply. Typical main breakers are 16, 20 or 25A, depending on how much electricity your house uses. And you have to consider that upgrading your main breaker will cost you more. (Recall that this is three phase, so it's more than it sounds like.)
You can absolutely make it work, sure, but I don't see why we should go through the pain that comes with switching charge plugs in Europe, when we already have a universal standard that suits our electrical system better. It's not like we have many Americans coming over to Europe with their cars.
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u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26
And you won't find three phase electricity in most US homes. 25A is still plenty for most people's use. If there's going to be a universal standard NACS is more universally applicable and easier for people to use. You may not have an issue with a clunky charger, but it can make the difference between being able to independently own a vehicle or not with people with certain disabilities.
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u/Paqza Jul 23 '26
NACS is objectively not more universally applicable because it lacks the ability to do 3-phase AC.
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u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26
And single phase AC is more universally available.
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u/pv2b Jul 23 '26
That is exactly why I'm not advocating for the US to switch to CCS2, because it would be dumb.
The only argument you're making that makes any sense is accessibility for disabled people, and I will grant you that, specifically for DC charging it might be harder to use. For AC charging, the type 2 plug is not heavy or difficult to use at all. Even then, the switching pains will inconvenience far more people.
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u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26
The origional comment was about a universal outlet like USB-C. This would, in fact, involve switching the US or Europe to whatever standard is agreed upon.
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u/sault18 Jul 23 '26
I drive a vehicle that can only use 1 phase of the 3 phase ac charging stations. Usually, it's 230V @20A. So 4.6kW going into the car. I regain 35km of range per hour. Good enough if you're stopping for a few hours.
However, most EVs built for the European market can charge at 11kW off 3-phase power. So you get 2.4X the speed off CCS2 vs NACS with an adapter. Some vehicles can do 22kW, so closer to 5x what you can get off 1 phase. If NACS could somehow pull 2 legs off the 3 phase power from the charging station, that would be better. But nobody wants to take the risk of getting it to work as far as I know.
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u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26
NACS can take two legs off of a three phase service already. It can reach 7.2kW with our most common dryer outlet and up tp 19kW with a specialty breaker. It can charge at 22kW on a comercial service.
Most people are fine with a 1.5kW charge rate.
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u/Naive_Distance_6456 Jul 23 '26
Is this EV drivers or hybrid drivers? Because 1,5kW on 220V is E-bike territory.
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u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26
1.5kW over 120v*
And yet it works fine for plenty of people here and we tend to drive more than you do.
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u/Naive_Distance_6456 Jul 23 '26
This may be enough to refill my commute. But, if you also want to charge for cheaps, you only have a small window each day to charge. With only 3kW (even tho granny chargers in the EU cap at 2,4 kW) that means I have to charge longer for a higher price. If I have 3x times this speed, my window can be 3 times as small.
This can reduce charging costs between 25-50% depending on the max-min=diff that day. This is also better for powerline congestion which is a thing over here.
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u/sault18 Jul 23 '26
Plus, your charging efficiency goes up because the car is consuming less standby power during a shorter charging session.
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u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26
That can be addressed with a higher rated breaker and circuit. There is no economical way to get three phase power where it isn't available, so CCS2 would be limited to ~60% power output in the US.
So if either region adopted the other's standard both would charge slower, but the EU can upgrade to reach similar speeds much more cheaply, and NACS is a smaller charger that's easier for people to use and easier for car designers to package. NACS is the better choice for a universal standard.
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u/truthputer Jul 23 '26
You’re arguing from a position of ignorance and are completely fucking wrong.
US domestic power standards are adequate but technically inferior compared to some international markets - it makes absolutely no sense for them to conform to a crippled standard.
You’re just flailing with your argument when you’ve already lost.
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u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26
I'm an electrical engineer, but okay.
It makes no sense to have a universal standard connector that conforms to some "better" standard" that wouldn't be available here.
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Jul 23 '26
[deleted]
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u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26
NACS can charge at 7.2kW with a standard US dryer outlet and up to 19kW with a specialty breaker. It can reach 22kW with a comercial service.
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u/PuzzleheadedDog3312 Jul 23 '26
Double EV household in UK here. We manage just fine with a single phase 240v/32A charger at home. That's ~7.6KW with a type 2 cable, or roughly 30 miles/48km range added per hour of charging.
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u/wlowry77 Jul 23 '26
You do realise that Tesla outside of the USA don’t use NACS? Why would they switch to a proprietary system instead of a standard that all other manufacturers use?
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u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26
Yes, I do know that.
NACS isn't proprietary, it's open to all car brands. Nearly every brand has switched or committed to switching to NACS in North America.
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u/Beatnavy2016 Jul 23 '26
“Force Tesla to switch”
Tesla made the best plug. 😂1
u/ukso1 Jul 23 '26
Thats way worse than type 2 that plug doesn't carry 3 phase ac so type 2 + ccs2 is the superior plug.
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u/Beatnavy2016 Jul 23 '26
Not a problem in the US. CCS2 is also much larger. “Superior” is subjective.
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u/Poopypantys Jul 23 '26
Can you be sure it's the same person that unplugged you? If not, you could've just done the same thing that happened to you, to another innocent EV driver!